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Author Topic: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world  (Read 121220 times)

Offline bistander

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1320 on: August 08, 2022, 01:45:10 AM »
Cadman,
Your earlier post today indicates you feel there is a need to consider the magnetic circuits in Holcomb's devices. I agree. I not attempting to derail anybody. In fact I made several suggestions to assist replications.

From the start I've been looking at HES from the magnetic vantage. And what's shown doesn't make sense.
bi

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1321 on: August 08, 2022, 02:36:25 AM »
Hi,

I have a question:
The Holcomb designs look like the original design was for a rotating generator.
Was the physical design for this generator originally suppose to rotate?
OR, was the design purposely made similar to rotating generators for
the easier manufacturing of the generator. Or, why?

The reason I ask is because other motionless generators look so much
different than his designs.  It sure would by nice to see some of the prototypes
that Holcomb went through to get to the current designs.

It would be nice to know the "Ah Ha" moments during the many years of
the development of these devices.

Does anyone know of some of those moments?

Lunkster
You need to watch Ellen's presentation listed earlier in the thread. The first version had 47 spinning rotors. It explains what you are after.

Offline Cadman

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1322 on: August 08, 2022, 02:32:32 PM »
Cadman,
Your earlier post today indicates you feel there is a need to consider the magnetic circuits in Holcomb's devices. I agree. I not attempting to derail anybody. In fact I made several suggestions to assist replications.

From the start I've been looking at HES from the magnetic vantage. And what's shown doesn't make sense.
bi

bi, and everyone else

I woke up this morning with a thought in my head that bugs me. The magnetic circuit I described here https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg569750/#msg569750 may be a construct to avoid.
I recalled seeing a post somewhere that there was a mu-metal sleeve between the center shaft and rotor laminates. If that is true then the only reason for it would be to block the magnetic path I described.

So bi and Ufo are probably correct.
Ufo, if you attach the shaft to the stator housing and your output goes away you will know the reason why.



Offline bistander

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1323 on: August 08, 2022, 06:18:50 PM »
Yes, Fig_5, item#130 is identified as mu metal sleeve on pages 30-31. It will not block magnetic field, or flux, so I fail to see a function. And, although I've not read entire document, I don't see a reason or function stated. If they desired to keep flux from being 'conducted' by or through the shaft, why not just use stainless steel (non-magnetic)?
bi

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1324 on: August 08, 2022, 06:35:02 PM »
bi, and everyone else

I woke up this morning with a thought in my head that bugs me. The magnetic circuit I described here https://overunity.com/19069/holcomb-energy-systemsbreakthrough-technology-to-the-world/msg569750/#msg569750 may be a construct to avoid.
I recalled seeing a post somewhere that there was a mu-metal sleeve between the center shaft and rotor laminates. If that is true then the only reason for it would be to block the magnetic path I described.

So bi and Ufo are probably correct.
Ufo, if you attach the shaft to the stator housing and your output goes away you will know the reason why.

Hello Cadman,

Thanks for the advice...
The way I am conducting testings as of now, I do not use any insulation between static rotor tooth faces and stator tooth faces...means they are in metal to metal contact...and probably I will do use some high temp tape to isolate them...and run same tests again...
And honestly, I really do not know what difference it would make to "bridge" the outer part of stator to the rotor core with a steel member...honestly.
Generators normally do not do it...and most have the two end caps (where shaft bearings are mounted) made of Aluminum, or other non ferromagnetic material.
Now, for Electrical Ground of the whole embodiment, yes...it is a requirement, but aluminum conducts electricity very well, not the Flux.

Kind regards

Ufopolitics



Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1325 on: August 08, 2022, 07:01:21 PM »
Where I am going towards in my next rotor configuration...related to Magnetic Circuit:

I realized that when we wind one of these Lap winding Motor Armatures, our Field rotation looses the "power" required as when we do spin the whole steel rotor and coils.
So, trying to visualize what is going on within the steel core...I can see that the Field does rotates (seen with Mag View Film), however, by not moving the steel mass, the field propagates "randomly" along the steel core, without the precise angular motion, like it takes place whenever we rotate the whole thing.

And this is a conclusion I came up with, a few years ago...and as a matter of fact, my isolated elements have been cut from 3 armatures stack up vertically since then...but I never got to finish that project until now, when I decided to make these tests with better results, after seeing DZ Gen from Cotnoir.

So, here I am showing my next Static Rotor configuration...and like I mentioned on my Thread, I will be making different rotor types...starting by the "A Shaped drum", mounted on bearings, which eventually be a dual cooling fan "motor"...after everytthing renders positive results.

Point is, that each steel "tooth element" is completely isolated magnetically from each others, (the ring could be aluminum or fiberglass, since the later would also be an electric insulator for the coils conductors) so the steel rotor drum would be in charge to close the magnetic circuit between each group of elements across 180º and at every fraction of rotational angle.

This way the Field would be able to actually "jump" from element to element, just like a geared mechanism...where the center rotor would be steping and closing the magnetic circuit at every angle of rotation.

I may add a couple of small neo's at each center of the rotor face, one North, other South...just to keep even more precise movement with the Virtual Field rotation.

Regards to all

Ufopolitics

EDIT 1: And let me say this...I am still not happy with this rotor design based on only 16 coils...it is still a Low Resolution Field, which displacement is still at a huge angle...(22.5º)...However, it is better than previous one I had, which was at 45º (8 Pair of Coils).
IMHO, these fields resolution should be around 10º or even less (Cotnoir mentioned that as well)...and -for sure- it will reflect an increase on your Output total power, more consistent, stronger.
However, for me to change that into a 36 tooth, it will involve to change commutator and brushes setup at rotary switch, plus stator and rotor core...so, I am not planning on changing or replacing what I have so far...which -I believe- would be able to demonstrate what I am looking for.

Offline bistander

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1326 on: August 08, 2022, 07:24:32 PM »
Hi Ufo,
Glad you posted those graphics over here. I seem to get deleted on the other thread. A couple of comments intended to help.

You don't magnetically isolate the steel tooth, only provide various air gaps to control reluctance of flux pathways.

The shape of the innermost spinning rotor appears "2-pole", yet the lap winding looks to be 4-pole. So won't the rotor center itself midway between adjacent N & S poles instead of opposite located N & S poles as shown?
bi

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1327 on: August 08, 2022, 07:36:22 PM »
Hi Ufo,
Glad you posted those graphics over here. I seem to get deleted on the other thread. A couple of comments intended to help.

You don't magnetically isolate the steel tooth, only provide various air gaps to control reluctance of flux pathways.

The shape of the innermost spinning rotor appears "2-pole", yet the lap winding looks to be 4-pole. So won't the rotor center itself midway between adjacent N & S poles instead of opposite located N & S poles as shown?
bi

Hello Bistander,

Yes, Ok, exactly like you have said..."to control the Flux pathways"...thanks, I understand that I am setting an air gap between them, however, when magnetic circuit is closed by rotor, it will comprehend more stronger (related to flux strength/flow) the tooth which are closer gap to rotor drum face...is what I believe...am I wrong?

You or Solar Lab could put that design in FEMM and see what I mean.

Yes, first graph is wrong related to number of tooth...it is supposed to reach 6 tooth, like shown on second image.
Remember the field according to brushes angle I have, have two positions for the -/+ electric poles which defines the field angle, which I could narrow or set it wider, I only have two positions.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1328 on: August 08, 2022, 08:01:40 PM »
Hello Bistander,
...
...am I wrong?

You or Solar Lab could put that design in FEMM and see what I mean.

Yes, first graph is wrong related to number of tooth...it is supposed to reach 6 tooth, like shown on second image.
Remember the field according to brushes angle I have, have two positions for the -/+ electric poles which defines the field angle, which I could narrow or set it wider, I only have two positions.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Ufo,

I think that you understand. Not wrong.

Unfortunately I don't have the tools to do FEMM.

And I think you miss my point on poles. The winding and connection to your commutator determine the number of poles. If that is 4, as I think you show in the diagram with a 4 slot coil span, then the spinning rotor needs a 4 lobe shape, N, S, N, S.
bi

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1329 on: August 08, 2022, 08:03:05 PM »
Here is a better view of Inner Rotor design.

I will be posting this on my Thread...
This is the Narrower Angle Field based on brushes adjustment (position 1), which comprehends around 3 commutator elements, or 3 coils on each side (pole).
In the next (position 2) it will widen the Field to about 6 elements per pole or 6 coils.
Position number 1 will be lesser coils (total of 6), so it will be a higher amp rate (less resistance)...when Position 2 (12 coils) will have lesser amperage, more resistance.
However, this settings depends on my stator coils width, and how I am wiring them...

Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1330 on: August 08, 2022, 08:44:17 PM »
Ufo,
And I think you miss my point on poles. The winding and connection to your commutator determine the number of poles. If that is 4, as I think you show in the diagram with a 4 slot coil span, then the spinning rotor needs a 4 lobe shape, N, S, N, S.
bi
Nope,

And I believe you are thinking that I have brushes wired as a typical 4 brush motor does...and it is not.

On a typical motor we have alternated -/+ or (-/+/-/+), which -as you said- does cut the field in 4 poles or N/S/N/S.

Look at image below...that is the narrow magnetic field angle settings...see the electric polarity of brushes?
So, this way there are some coils not being energized during rotation (the ones within the electric poles of same polarity)...and so, I get a much better sinewave than if I use just two brushes -/+ which divides the field in two poles...and scrambles the whole thing and output drops down.

Hope you see what I am trying to explain.

Regards

Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1331 on: August 08, 2022, 08:50:18 PM »
Ufo,
Yep. I think it is unfair to call it a lap winding, or at minimum confusing. This is a lap winding.
https://www.theengineeringknowledge.com/lap-winding-in-dc-machines/

edit:  So at any instant, you are only using 6 out of the 16 coils.
bi


Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1332 on: August 08, 2022, 09:30:16 PM »
Ufo,
Yep. I think it is unfair to call it a lap winding, or at minimum confusing. This is a lap winding.
https://www.theengineeringknowledge.com/lap-winding-in-dc-machines/

edit:  So at any instant, you are only using 6 out of the 16 coils.
bi

Bistander,

There are many ways to do a Lap Winding...I am not doing it like you have shown...and still, I am doing a Lap Winding.
I am doing it like on this image I had to take my time to convert from the web...pls, let's not stop on small details...it cost me money.
And, of course, since I am doing more than just one turn per coil...it adapts better to the "Duplex Type Lap Winding"...However, the way to hook comm elements to coils is exactly the same.

https://www.electrical4u.com/lap-winding-simplex-and-duplex-lap-winding/

But you are right, on the images I am showing, I am only using 6 out of 16 coils where the center (alternating) coil always stays on, during rotation.
I can have 12 coils in the wide settings...

For these systems, it is better NOT to use ALL Coils on the armature, it will scramble your sinewave, as your output will not be as desired.
Trust me, been there, done that!!

Ufopolitics

Offline Cadman

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1333 on: August 08, 2022, 10:15:00 PM »
Yes, Fig_5, item#130 is identified as mu metal sleeve on pages 30-31. It will not block magnetic field, or flux, so I fail to see a function. And, although I've not read entire document, I don't see a reason or function stated. If they desired to keep flux from being 'conducted' by or through the shaft, why not just use stainless steel (non-magnetic)?
bi

One last comment on this and then I'll shut up about it.

Bi,
Why not use stainless? Cost. Mu-metal could block the path by increasing the reluctance.

Ufo,
The circuit path I'm talking about really only applies to the rotor - stator - outer rotor configuration shown in the patent application I posted.



Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Holcomb Energy Systems:Breakthrough technology to the world
« Reply #1334 on: August 08, 2022, 10:19:22 PM »
One last comment on this and then I'll shut up about it.

Ufo,
The circuit path I'm talking about really only applies to the rotor - stator - outer rotor configuration shown in the patent application I posted.

Ok, I see, so Path you were referring to, was only between Rotors...Inner and Outer.

Now I do understand your point, as I do as well, yes, both rotors should be connected magnetically...I agree.

Regards

Ufopolitics