Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination  (Read 4525 times)

MWestland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« on: March 06, 2022, 12:58:10 AM »
I've been working on a motor/generator combination for over ten years now, and have tried to disclose things, but nobody wants to believe me. So I thought perhaps I would bring a basic setup HERE, and we could have a reasonable discussion about why I am full of crap. Or maybe I have some things figured out. Who knows?

Anyway, there are a couple issues that make a generator of any size a difficult device to power, and a big one is Lenz. So let's take a look at Lenz first. Lenz is NOT a law. Lenz is a reaction. Like ALL reactions it is made up of various parts. Change one of these parts, and you affect the whole. Let's take a look at what ACTUALLY happens during the Lenz reaction. Assume the generator coil is loaded or shorted.

First, the rotor magnet is attracted to the material of the generator coil core and this causes the rotor to accelerate. (Visible probably only on a SMALL setup).
Second, the approaching magnet's field begins to permeate the core material, spreading EQUALLY through the core. (This is important!!!!)
Third, the flux in the core begins to cause the wires to generate electricity which spreads EQUALLY throughout the coil. (This is important!!!!)
Fourth, the electricity in the coil begin to turn the core into an electromagnet with a polarity that opposes the approaching magnet.
That repulsion of the approaching magnet is referred to as the "Lenz reaction"
One thing after another after another after another must happen for Lenz to occur. The variable people FORGET in this equation is TIME, but that will come later.

Is all of this TRUE? If so, how do we deal with Lenz? Well, here is one extreme example. Make the core of the coil two feet long. What happens now? The magnetic field of the passing magnet spreads equally throughout the core, but it never accumulates enough flux to cause the wires to generate electricity. No Lenz reaction? Well, what actually happened is that time ran out because the magnet moved past the core BEFORE it could be filled with enough flux. No power production EITHER, but at least now it is clear that Lenz CAN be manipulated. All the required elements took place, but Lenz did not occur did it? Start shortening the core until it is long enough to DELAY the Lenz reaction until the rotor magnet has reached perfect alignment with the coil core, and the outcome is far different.

Another example is to simply SPEED up the rotor so FAST that by the time the Lenz reaction can occur, the rotor magnet is ALREADY perfectly aligned with the coil core. These are not the only solutions. Once you understand what the components ARE of the Lenz reaction, you can start thinking of various ways to ALTER them. Some work well. Others not so much.

Here is what an EE who is also a physicist had to say about Lenz:

"It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome."


I hope what I have just shared here will get some of you to think. Lenz is not the only issue and there is more than one way to skin that cat. I know a few. I pointed out TWO already, and there are more. I am actually not using EITHER of the ones I pointed out.

Take a look at the following video and maybe we can come to a meeting of the minds.
Here is a video of a very simple setup.
A battery. A reed switch to complete the circuit.
A small rotor with all N magnets (any GOOD generator will have a rotor with N/S magnets)
A generator coil
A light bulb
A motor coil
Two small magnets
A stack of magnets (only because a stack is easier to hold and not let slip out of my hand. A single magnet will work just as well.)

https://youtu.be/90t071rVfmE

ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8073
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2022, 01:28:53 AM »
Nice to see you around , if you like you could start a moderated board here ( Stefan has feature for builders boards  now …so topics stay on topic ) !
For clarity “you would be the moderator of your board”

Been a long time , thanks for persevering !


Respectfully
Chet
Ps
I did start putting word out to some builders to have a look !  ( some are old friends of yours …. others new !)

MWestland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2022, 01:49:19 AM »
By the way, as I move the magnets in toward the rotor, I go TOO FAR, and that causes a negative reaction.

Nice to see you around too Chet. They can't get rid of me. I'm like gum on someone's shoe! LOL

Bob Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2022, 05:35:37 AM »
Very Interesting, and thanks for sharing this.

So as you saturate the coil cores with magnets...

- the Lenz interaction between rotor magnets and coils decreases, allowing the rotor to speed up?
- the diminished Lenz forces results in a lower amp draw?

What you're doing makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm understanding this correctly. Is it really such a simple principle to circumvent or significantly diminish Lenz?
Bob

MWestland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2022, 06:45:40 AM »
Honestly Bob, I am not exactly sure WHAT is happening. I do not know if this addresses Lenz AT ALL. I once had a friend tell me "Don't worry about WHY something works. When you find an interesting effect, figure out a way to use it to your advantage, and let the people with brains fight over WHY it works. (They WILL) That's what I do.

In the big generator I built, I see that magnets across from the generator coils counteract the attraction of the rotor magnets to the coil cores, so I USE that. With this little machine I was showing someone that putting the correct polarity magnet across the rotor from the generator coil would cause the motor to speed up. As does putting the OPPOSITE polarity magnet across the rotor from the motor coil. ( Which I FORGOT to show in this video) I was playing around with those magnets and added one to the back of the motor coil, and the motor sped up. So I added one (opposite polarity) to the back of the generator coil, and the motor sped up again. NONE of these things caused an increase in the amp draw of the motor. They all caused a decrease in amp draw and an increase in RPM.

So what I now know is: One polarity positively affects the motor coil, and the opposite polarity positively affects the generator coil.

To see what the total benefit of this is, I need to be able to measure the RPM of the rotor efficiently and accurately. The RPM meter I bought only works on a South magnet and my rotor magnets are North, so I have been trying to figure out a way to use it.

I need to measure the RPM and Amp draw with NO generator coil in place. Then add the generator coil and see what the decrease in RPM is, if any, and the increase, if any, in amp draw.  Then add my magnets to see if they compensate for this loss of RPM and increase in amp draw or actually cause the motor to exceed the original RPM at lower amp draw. There is a lot to learn here from this little test setup, so I brought it to the forum so that people could see what I see. Simple enough anyone can build one. If you zoom in on just the amp draw, you can see that it begins at about 25 milliamps, and drops down to a little over 10 milliamps.

BorisKrabow

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2022, 09:04:35 AM »
Hi ,   These are interesting tests!
            If, when the generator is running, bring the magnet closer to the coil different things can happen .
When the coil core is saturated with a magnetic field  coil core stops working  ( remagnetize ) . this coil becomes an air coil. The electric current may increase or decrease in this case. I have observed similar phenomena many times. As a rule, when the current consumption decreases, the received energy also decreases.
            If a decrease in current is accompanied by an increase in revolutions and the energy received exceeds the energy spent, then this is a sign of Reverse Lenz Technologies . this can happen under the following conditions.
           If the magnetic field in the coil increases as it approaches the magnet  and decreases with distance from the magnet , then Lenz's rule applies.
           If the opposite happens. If, when the coil approaches the magnet  the field in the coil will decrease ,  and as you move away from the magnet, the field will increase . then with a certain arrangement of the poles of the magnets  . The properties of the coil will be reversed . This is Reverse Lenz Technology.

Jimboot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2022, 11:50:22 AM »
Hi David, you’re an annoying chap  ;D  I was just about to tear down a pulse motor when Chet pointed me at your post. I just lost 3 hours but learned a lot. I’d seen the effect before but did not understand it and I’d forgotten about it. I think it was when I worked n the Orbos. Anyway I have replicated your results on my bench tonight. Spinning a 3kg flywheel at over 200rpm with two generator coils lighting LEDs, current draw on my battery was less than 5ma. My rotor all N facing. Drive coil was in repulsion (n) so I had a n attached to the core. Gen coils had s facing pms. I’m using an ossie motor circuit with two reeds.


I’ll now build a new design/architecture with some bifilar gen coils. Thanks for sharing.

MWestland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2022, 05:41:31 PM »
Boris,
Thanks for the explanation!. I just know it works and I can take advantage of it.

Jimboot. Glad to see you had success with this. There are lots of things we can learn from this little setup.

Another thing to consider. In Tesla's time, and even today (I have seen it in MY1016 motors I have torn apart) one method of reducing or eliminating the self induction in a motor coil was to put a capacitor across the coil. Because the self induction fills the capacitor BEFORE it fills the coil, the negative EFFECT of self induction was reduced or eliminated. It increases the efficiency of the motor. The problem with motor coils is that the electricity applied goes up and down, as does motor speed, so it is a hit or miss proposition and only works efficiently at a certain speed, usually the rated speed of the motor, so at all other speeds it is ineffective.

Now if we apply this concept to a generator, we can build a coil of our choosing. It can have the number of winds we want, and the length of wire we choose. We can build a rotor with a set number of magnets of our choosing and a specific diameter. We can establish a set RPM at which we will turn that rotor with a prime mover. And at THAT frequency, with THAT core material, with a coil of THAT capacitance, we can figure out WHAT size capacitor to go across the coil. If the load is NOT connected to the coil until the correct RPM is reached, the capacitor will give us the increased capacitance required for capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils to CANCEL each other out, and Lenz will not effect the prime mover when the coil is put under load. THIS IS NOT AN EASY PROCESS, and would take the work of a few people. Bob French and I were able to do it with a small coil and a small rotor, which is why I brought this little table top model here. If we were to get a group of folks to work on it, the solution could be worked out in a short time and we could move on to LARGER rotors and LARGER coils. But for a group to work on it, they all have to have everything EXACTLY the same, and that's hard to do on these forums! Everybody (including me!) is working with whatever crap they have on hand and then wonders why their "replication" doesn't work.

MWestland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2022, 09:44:12 PM »
Boris,
I had a thought. I KNOW you can affect the Lenz reaction in a number of ways. Change the length of the core material, its composition, etc. Increase the capacitance of the wire. Change rotor speed.

What if the magnets on the back of the core are ATTRACTING the approaching rotor magnet with their magnetic field, and then slowing down the ability of the wire to create the magnetic field that repels the approaching magnet. In other words, the NEW magnetic field to create the electromagnet must first neutralize the EXISTING magnetic field of the opposite polarity in the core before it can create the electromagnet with the OPPOSITE polarity to repel the approaching magnet. This sounds like what you were saying in your very last "If" statement. Sometimes I have to think about things for days before the meaning becomes clear to me. And it usually happens in the middle of the night.

Jimboot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2022, 09:09:45 PM »
Turning by hand as my pm approaches my em with the biased core of the same polarity it is repelled until it gets close enough and then attracted. The same as when you have 2 pm same pole facing and you can stick them together with a small piece of steel. In previous experiments https://youtu.be/4OSXbG2BmUw when we transition from repulsion to attraction I thought there was a flipping of domains. Now I think that is not the case but there is still a charge generated as the field changes in the inductor. Mmmm this will mess with my head. More testing tonight.

Dbowling

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 167
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2022, 11:00:40 PM »
Repulsion/ Attraction/ Repulsion. And power is produced because there is still a change in flux. If the attraction is equal to the repulsions that’s a free spinning rotor. Can the magnetic “assist” from the permanent magnet be varied enough to make that happen.

MWestland

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9

Jimboot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1407
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2022, 08:56:37 AM »
Thanks for that. Tests tonight. My Hall effect switching circuit had no measurable effect by placing pm on the em core. On my reed switched motor it took current draw from 90ma to 50ma immediately and began to speed up. Using hand held pm with opposing pole facing the rotor, the motor sped up but drew an extra 40ma. I put the scope across the drive coil and the pulse width had increased slightly. So the extra on time drew more current but even though I could feel a slight cogging the rotor sped up mmm

Paul-R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2086
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2022, 01:00:01 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMuLptnM2Zg
I see this video is from user "MRDKONZEN". Is this Konehead? If so, it would pay to take it seriously.

BorisKrabow

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: Building an OU Motor/Generator combination
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2022, 02:13:41 PM »
Boris,
I had a thought. I KNOW you can affect the Lenz reaction in a number of ways. Change the length of the core material, its composition, etc. Increase the capacitance of the wire. Change rotor speed.


Hey ! I understood . You want to fit a lot of effects into one device.
To quickly get free energy.  It's like engineering humor, but it's possible.   ;D

    voila . Here the ideas of Kromrey, Ed Leadskalnin and many others are combined.
     Let's look at the picture. The magnets pass through the turns of the coil without reaching the core of the coil.
     As soon as a magnetic field appears, the core attracts Lenz .
    The core of the coil is made of a long soft iron rod.   a long rod of soft iron carries Lenz away from the coill.
    Foucault currents in soft iron convert Lenz into heat. 
    The faster the rotation, the stronger Mr. Foucault becomes.