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### Author Topic: Dual capacitor paradox  (Read 1351 times)

#### gyulasun

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4136
##### Re: Dual capacitor paradox
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2022, 06:02:04 PM »
Hi captainpecan,

Would like to refer to an interesting patent, in which the stored energy in a capacitor is utilized to enhance battery life hence giving longer run time for a load from the same battery (the load is said to be a DC motor or a lamp).
The capacitor is charged up from the battery via the load and then it is switched at the right moment in reverse series with the same battery, thus its voltage is added to the battery voltage with the correct polarity to run the load from an increased battery voltage. One would say the circuit is a kinda charge pump. The capacitor is always charged and discharged via the load.
Here is the patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7085123B2/en

This is a kind of example to reuse energy over and over (here from a capacitor) you mentioned to achieve with the magnetic field of a coil:

Quote
I am wanting to use that magnetic field for work done, while allowing the recapture of most of the energy used to create that field. What I am wanting to do is not collapse it to catch it.
Let it collapse itself and push through to be caught and reused over and over. Of course adding the tiny bit back that is lost to continue the cycles. I'm not looking to get more out of the pulses than put in. I'm looking to get free work out of those pulses and recycle as much as possible to keep doing it over and over.

I think that using the idea of inventor Pavel Imris on capacitive coils could be combined here with the above circuit because the charge current then would create magnetic field for your purposes and the energy in the capacitors would also be available, at least to a certain degree.
Here is the patent application I mean, translated to English from German by Google: https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2010003394A2/en The Figures are in the PDF file.
Of course the correct component values should be arrived at by tests.  The capacitive winding works with external capacitors too, not only with the structural self capacitance of the two windings, which has upper limits even with foil windings.

#### captainpecan

• Moderator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 680
##### Re: Dual capacitor paradox
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2022, 06:30:25 PM »
I hadn't seen that one yet. It's interesting because I have been doing some tests of pretty close to that exact same setup, by adding the Capacitor in series with the battery to use some of that energy again. I haven't done much with it because I am actually kind of unsure how to reliably test how much is actually being used, and of it is pulling more from the battery even though it appears to be reusing the Capacitor energy. I am also a little torn by trying to measure actual efficiency of doing all of this with batteries only. It seems that the Capacitor paradox would not be there with batteries, but can they charge efficiently enough to overcome the difference? I have also been working with the idea of eliminating losing half the capacitance when you put caps in series, by instead hooking each in series with a battery instead to get the extra potential. I also tried it using dead AA batteries in series to get just a voltage gain. Then hooking a cap in series and using that voltage to dump into the system again. Actually seemed to work like a charm, But again, doing the actual measurements accurately is an issue and has been keeping me from learning from it how effective or ineffective it is. It is so easy and accurate to measure exact energy in a capacitor, but as soon as a battery enters the equation, I then have problems actually proving anything do to the recovery time of batteries and efficiency differences of pulse charging over fast current charging and battery chemistries. I have a ton of 18650 cells I recycled out of bad laptop batteries so I have plenty to screw up with. But then I have another problem. Not knowing the reliability of each individual cell because they are old and repurchased. I have some battery monitors that can tell me how much has been taken from each battery and how much is put back on. I'm not sire how reliable of numbers, but it's all I have. I honestly do feel the answer to this equation of free energy will lie in recycling what we use and maximizing free work as we recycle. I've just felt that way forever. But actually doing it is another story. Thanks for continuing to feed me research! Keeps me motivated. So many things I want to learn and try. Something I was planning on trying with my current motor setup amd the simple generator I am adding right now, was to see efficiency changes by powering the circuit very similar to what this patent shows actually. I have been wanting to try sending all that is generated to a cap bank that then hooks in series with the power source to add to it, and pulsenthrough the motor coils into the charge battery. That way everything that is generated gets first pushed through the motor coils to put speed back into the system as it is dumped into the charge battery. Problem could be losing 50% of my generated energy storing it into a cap and releasing it to begin with. May be more efficient to send straight to the charge battery, but I want to try and put rotation back into the motor while doing it to ease the drag of the generator side of things. So much to try.

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3595
##### Re: Dual capacitor paradox
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2022, 05:58:34 PM »
I believe they used 2 shotkey diodes in the 60’s to resolve the ‘why’

But i feel you are on the right track trying to raise the impedance.
However you should appropriate an equal and opposite inductance
to accommodate the “lost energy” you wish to capture.
This will also help stabilize the rate of charge/discharge