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Author Topic: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs  (Read 24732 times)

Floor

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #150 on: April 13, 2022, 06:53:00 PM »
CAPTAIN THE HIGHER THE FREQUENCY THE HIGHER THE ENERGY .

The higher the frequency the higher the energy... per unit of time (power)... true that.
But...
1. once you begin to approach radio frequencies many complications will arise
2. physical objects cannot react / respond (due to inertia / other things) to very high
    frequencies  (even at a molecular range of size / scales)
3. resonances and harmonics (always at lower frequencies than the causal frequencies)
    may be slow enough / give the .... appearance / as if ...  higher frequencies are being
    .... directly ....  responded to, even when they are not.  etcetera etcetera etcetera


I recommend that for the sake of clarity / understanding of what is going on
and ease of observation / simplicity, keep things slowed way down.

Increases in power (frequency of repetition of cycles per unit of time) should perhaps be
approached in later stages of development as a means of increasing power.
             Just my opinion though...

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #151 on: April 13, 2022, 07:00:21 PM »
The higher the frequency the higher the energy... per unit of time (power)... true that.
But...
1. once you begin to approach radio frequencies many complications will arise
2. physical objects cannot react / respond (due to inertia / other things) to very high
    frequencies  (even at a molecular range of size / scales)
3. resonances and harmonics (always at lower frequencies than the causal frequencies)
    may be slow enough / give the .... appearance / as if ...  higher frequencies are being
    .... directly ....  responded to, even when they are not.  etcetera etcetera etcetera


I recommend that for the sake of clarity / understanding of what is going on
and ease of observation / simplicity, keep things slowed way down.

Increases in power (frequency of repetition of cycles per unit of time) should perhaps be
approached in later stages of development as a means of increasing power.
             Just my opinion though...
I tend to agree. Maybe something I can move towards. But yeah, I'm not there yet.

Floor

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #152 on: April 13, 2022, 07:54:54 PM »
and..
   thanks for all the nice work / detail / communications...

              best wishes

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #153 on: April 15, 2022, 03:27:35 AM »
Just a little update. Had a few things being a pain, but it's back together. Sort of. I still need to make my terminal block, get my pulse circuit done, set the switching up, and I'll be ready to start testing and fire it up. I am keeping the gap huge for now. Starting at about 3/8" gap right now. The magnets are so strong, while I was tightening things it all slammed together and took me a while to get things apart without breaking stuff. So I'm moving forward slowly and decrease the gap after I know it doesn't grenade on me and throw magnets through my walls when I try and run it. At least if it explodes, I want it recorded!!.. lol. More to come soon.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #154 on: April 16, 2022, 02:31:53 AM »
Quick question. I have a bunch of these hall sensor boards I ordered for the wrong purpose a while back. Pretty sure they are for arduino's. I don't have one. But I'm trying to use it anyway. I am simply just wanting to trigger an n channel mosfet with it. The pins are switched but it has built in LED and stuff is kinda of a nice bundle for tuning a pulse motor. But for some reason no matter how I hook these up, i can't get it to work. When I hook it up as shown assuming it is just the sensor itself, all I get is solid led lit. Any suggestions? I can just use a normal hall sensor, but I want to use these if I can. I am hooking it up assuming pin 1 is -, 2 is +, and 3 is signal. I want to power it from the same circuit, but I've even tried powering with separate power source. I immediately get the led to blink in a field like it's supposed to, but the signal still doesn't trip the mosfet??? I'm sure I'm doing something stupid. Any suggestions?

Offline floodrod

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #155 on: April 16, 2022, 02:39:23 AM »
Quick question. I have a bunch of these hall sensor boards I ordered for the wrong purpose a while back. Pretty sure they are for arduino's. I don't have one. But I'm trying to use it anyway. I am simply just wanting to trigger an n channel mosfet with it. The pins are switched but it has built in LED and stuff is kinda of a nice bundle for tuning a pulse motor. But for some reason no matter how I hook these up, i can't get it to work. When I hook it up as shown assuming it is just the sensor itself, all I get is solid led lit. Any suggestions? I can just use a normal hall sensor, but I want to use these if I can. I am hooking it up assuming pin 1 is -, 2 is +, and 3 is signal. I want to power it from the same circuit, but I've even tried powering with separate power source. I immediately get the led to blink in a field like it's supposed to, but the signal still doesn't trip the mosfet??? I'm sure I'm doing something stupid. Any suggestions?

I use those exact ones all the time.  There is already a resistor on the board.

left pin goes to ground.  center goes to 5V.  Right pin will turn High and Low when magnet is in range.

Not sure about running 15V through it..  Might try hooking right pin labeled (S) to the gate.  Feeding 5V from usb plug into middle pin and ground to left.
The 15V would feed from a different supply.  And using your resistor on the mosfet only.

Edit-  Here is a pic

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #156 on: April 16, 2022, 07:01:03 AM »
@floodrod
Thanks for the help. Still having an issue though. I am beginning to wonder if I have a bad batch. I can easily run the mosfet wit a reed, no problem. It's not like there are that many wires here. My biggest issue is that I got bad batch of reeds that are not working consistently at all. I got 1 good reed switch from before that works fine so I have it running on one set of coils only. For some reason I am not finding my other halls sensors to try... I'm about to clip one off the board and try it without the circuitry. Wondering if there is a cold solder problem or something.


Edit:.. yup. Bad parts. I got one working. How frustrating, I used most of my time messing with bad parts... oh well.

Offline seychelles

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #157 on: April 16, 2022, 07:21:30 AM »
YOU FIND THE ANSWER.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #158 on: April 16, 2022, 07:52:52 AM »
Yeah, thanks. I was doing it correct. I got some bad parts. I resoldered every joint on one and it works fine now. Just have to see if I can fix the others so I can move forward until I get new stuff in.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #159 on: April 16, 2022, 07:29:27 PM »
Wow, what a pain. I got some of those little hall sensor boards working by reflowing the solder. But they still seemed to be kind of constipated per say. The coils were pulsing but barely. Led was lighting bright. After many times of screwing with these things, I finally started digging in all my junk to find something else i can use. I finally found some simple 3144 hall sensors. I wired one up, hooked it up, and the coil pulses exactly as it should. But it still performs slightly better with the 1 reed switch i have that seems to work correctly. I guess i really did end up with all bad parts afterall. Finally moving forward. I wasted a lot of my free time playing with garbage. Fingers crossed there will be no more surprises this weekend.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #160 on: April 17, 2022, 06:57:39 AM »
Just a quick update. I still need to tune it. I just lined up the switches real quick and test out my connections. Runs good. Pretty efficient. I was just playing around and turning down the voltage until it stalls just to see. And I'm actually very surprised with the amount of magnets, and steel in this thing, as well as a flywheel that has to be more than 6 lbs. It spins at 3.6v and only 2ma... now, of course this is barely spinning at all, but I did not expect this with so much high resistance wire. There are 6 coils, but each pulse uses 2 in series which equal 5200 turns of 30 awg wire at between 160 and 170 ohms. At higher speeds I'm working out some balance issues and stuff. I have not let it go over 300 rpm yet until I tune it better and make sure it won't self destruct when I start feeding it power to see what it can do. I will hopefully start posting some video soon as I get it tuned. This coil method seems to continue to be worth exploring!

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #161 on: April 17, 2022, 10:15:45 AM »
Here is a little test run video. This is about as fast as I wanted to push it tonight. I don't have a recovery circuit on it yet so I'm kind of pounding the mosfets with flyback at the moment. But I wanted to open it up a little and test things. It has a little torque. Hard to tell by hand, but it feels like useful torque for the speed and better than normal pulse motors for sure. I will find out when I start loading it down a bit.. Kind of a floppy looking build, but hey, it's running! And something I was not expecting... it self starts nicely!!! The timing pulses are stagged just right so that no matter where it rests, it's triggering a pulse. I was aiming for that, but I didn't really expect it yet.

P.S. Not that you guys care, but my better half has informed me I am to tell everyone to ignore the ugly wood floors. Tore up nasty carpet and it's a work in progress.

Here's a test run of it. Pretty efficient so far.
 https://youtube.com/shorts/j1MUhXhwRNE?feature=share

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #162 on: April 17, 2022, 12:56:44 PM »
Hi Captainpecan, 

Nice setup (do not bother about the wood floor beneath it)  :) and it runs smoothly. Hopefully you can recover a good part of the input power (which now is around 15.4V x 25mA = 0.385W). 
This will presumably increase when the rotor is loaded by the generator coils if you plan to use them. But the flyback recovery will help on this. 
Thanks for showing the tests. 

Gyula 

Offline kajunbee

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #163 on: April 17, 2022, 03:51:43 PM »
IT IS NOT A BIFILAR. BUT TWO INDUCTORS OF THE THE SAME VALUE ONE WITHIN THE OTHER.
I HAVE NEVER TRIED IT BUT IMAGINING THAT IT WILL ENHANCE THE OUTCOME. DUE TO LINE OF
FORCE COMPRESSION. JUST MONKEY THOUGHT. IT HAS TO BE PROVEN. EASILY TESTED . TWO ELECTROMAGNET
ONE WITH THE SAME LENGTH OF WOUNDED WIRE AS PER THE MONKEY DOUBLE COILS AND CHECK THE MAGNETIC PULL USING
A SCALE. SAME CURRENT SAME VOLTAGE.

@ Seychelles
This is a coaxial transformer I put together a few years back. Since I tested with 60 hertz I was only able to apply around 3 vac before core started to saturate. I used 1/8” tubing with 23 gauge center conductor. Don’t remember much results other than coupling between primary and secondary unloaded was near perfect.

Edit: A simple experiment would be wrap some TV coax cable on a core which is what I did at first.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2022, 06:12:21 PM by kajunbee »

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #164 on: April 17, 2022, 07:41:53 PM »
Here are a few scope shots. Ignore time and date, I need to set it again. This thing was in my basement for 10 yrs probably. Just thumped the dust off. I am not real good at using one of these, so any suggestions are appreciated. I hooked it across 1 pair of coils to see what's going on. As expected there is a pretty strong spike when it switches off. I had to use 1x probe because i just could not get 10x probe to fit on screen. Those are scope1 and scope2 below. I am a little confused with scope1off below. I took a shot of what is happening after I turn off the power supply and the rotor is still spinning. I wanted to see the difference. But what interests me is that I am still seeing that spike with no pulses? What is going on here? Is that the internal magnetic field from the permanent magnet insidenthe core flipping on its own reacting to the approaching and leaving rotor magnets? It looks like I am getting that flyback spike, without a pulse? Am I reading this wrong? I was visualizing being able to catch the spike as the internal magnet flips back inward, but wasn't really sure if i could actually do it. This looks like I am seeing it here. Thoughts?