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Author Topic: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs  (Read 17446 times)

Offline jimbo

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2022, 07:31:34 PM »
Well then captainpecan here's a new idea .I've found that you can neutralize a toroidal core by rapping like 300 turns of magnet wire on it one rap around the second laterally then around on third rap with 26 awg .so what's the big picture ? When a magnet approaches the core it just disappears to the magnet .and if the magnet is big or small it takes the same energy to work .its the attraction that's the power the better the configuration of magnet to core the more power.if you took a iron  L beam and made a track out of it using like a plywood runner and a cart with wheels and a big neo magnet .with a ever decreasing gap to the iron the cart would run like a bat out of hell like bullet.to the end then lock up but if the toroidal core is at the end and turned on .the cart would fly like a rocket on all of the accumulated kinetic energy weather six ft long or a mile long .it would use the same energy . this shifts the dynamics .your not tied down to a closed system anymore . its a little tricky to set up but it does work .

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2022, 08:24:46 PM »
@Jimbo,

Very interesting indeed. See, now you got me wanting to play with toroids again.. lol. I did a lot of work with joule thieves a while back. Fun stuff. What makes me curious about your concepts you are referring to, is how would that work in series? Or would it choke off and be counter effective?  Could they work just like my coil results so far and continue to decrease energy used to make them disappear with each added to a certain point? Nott only that, hook it between 2 battery packs. 1 pack at 36 volts, one pack at 12v. Leaves a 24v difference. You then dump it from 1 bank and charge the other while running your motor in between. That's my plan with all my projects. Find exactly how much energy us needed to run at peak performance. Then duplicate that energy with the difference in battery banks. Then you are never sending energy to ground. You are sending it through your coils and into the other battery bank. Along with any flyback or generation you have set up to use from the torque...  So many fun ideas...


Your concept would easily adapt to a rotor design as well. Many are making the magnet rotor with decreasing gaps but can't get past the gate spot. I haven't worked much with the linear,  V gate and track magnet designs and stuff. Just never interested me that much. I lean more towards a rotor design with all my thoughts usually. Just the way my mind draws me I guess.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2022, 11:44:36 PM by captainpecan »

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2022, 12:05:49 AM »
@Floor, and whoever has output measure knowledge.

You seem to be a man that has kept track of good resources for measuring stuff properly. I think I will soon have the need to measure output of my motor when I get it dialed in and running. I am thinking of a prony break concept and have been looking at what options I can begin to prepare. But most prony break measurements require you bring a motor to a dead stop for a measurement. Im not sure that is the best way to measure my design of a pulse motor where the power comes from releasing a hidden magnets field. Maybe it would be fine, but im trying to get prepared. Do you have any other good documents rat holed somewhere you wouldn't mind sharing that may help me move in the right direction to proper input vs output of this motor design? There is a lot of random stuff out there, but if someone has exactly what would work well for my setup, I'm all ears! Thanks in advance if someone has something to share.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2022, 12:48:13 AM »

A relatively simple method for measuring the mechanical output is shown in the first 13 minutes of this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSJF3GlYGVc   

Gyula

Offline jimbo

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2022, 04:41:15 AM »
Captain
 The toroidal shut off works well enough and on very little power .but the power focus has changed to setting up the best magnets to core placements the better the magnets attract the more power out put .it would work with a vgate.but that's only one dimensional you could come at it from three more places around the core .making a tube like structure . a magnet tunnel .I'd start with just one first . hay here's my desine build idea not a toroidal donut but a pipe segment iron pipe segment its toroidal too .and if I can get that up and running I can use a chain of neos.coming at the core . more power because of a lot more neos..I'll post a video of a four core very low watt fan. I can imagin a 18 inch by 2 inch dam iron pipe and a 2 inch by 18 inch rotor with a lot of strong neos . but I got to do it smaller for now like 1 1/2 pipe by 4 inch .

Offline jimbo

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2022, 04:56:07 AM »
Here's a video look in the extra information text part for the numbers this isn't the vid I was looking for .but it will do .


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_EapgzWFAh4





Offline jimbo

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2022, 05:00:59 AM »

Offline jimbo

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2022, 05:17:13 AM »

Offline jimbo

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2022, 05:21:16 AM »
The thing is that there all using small toroidal cores and it doesn't seem to be recycling the back emf for a 80% energy return there just throwing it away . so I'm going to try the pipe notion for more power .I like the idea of motor being on 1% of the time and creating power 100% of the time .and the input discontent from the out put .

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2022, 05:36:45 AM »
A relatively simple method for measuring the mechanical output is shown in the first 13 minutes of this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSJF3GlYGVc   

Gyula


Thanks for posting that. I haven't seen that video in many years. I was really hoping to find a copy somewhere that the voice lines up still but I haven't found one. I had forgotten about his explanation in the beginning. That is such a great resource video I had forgotten about. When I saw it long ago, it was the first time I had ever really understood back emf.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2022, 08:36:19 AM »
@jimbo,


Ahhhh... the orbo experiments. I remember now. I was looking into that concept a bit many years ago. I've been away for while. Just getting back after a long break recently. That stuff was very interesting and I watched all the videos but never did a build to play with it. I would be very interested in seeing your work if you do any builds to work with this. I may work a bit on it myself after I have moved forward more with my current project. I'm still waiting on my new power supply. Hopefully it will be here monday. It will let me pulse up to 120v DC and 800 watts if I wanted to. If I can't find a pulse amount that releases the hidden permanent magnet force, then it just isn't going to work as predicted. It should get it done if it will work at all.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2022, 05:57:06 PM »
The "Orbo" is an attraction neutralization motor that positions the toroid coil at the neutral zone between the NS rotor magnets so both poles of the toroid coil power the release.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2022, 06:47:23 PM »
@Jimbo,


You bringing up this orbo concept again into my mind, made me realize I need to completely change my test setup for my current motor I am building. I have been testing the magnetic field coming from the coils in relation to the power supplied. That is handy. But the build will be using magnets on the rotor to propel away when the internal permanent magnet field is released. The orbo work made me realize, the inductance will probably change greatly when the rotor magnets are in line with the coil changing the entire power curve I am measuring. Maybe it will then require less power to release the field from within? Don't know. Time to build, amd do pull tests measuring pull strength as power is supplied to see what happens when I hit the sweet spot voltage. I guess gauss reading only helps in coil design, but still doesn't tell me much about what will happen when magnets are sitting just past TDC. Can't wait for my new power supply. I feel like a child waiting for Santa to bring me my toy!

Offline synchro1

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2022, 09:13:14 PM »
JLN's Lambda of 13.7 expresses the advantage. The magnets generate a charge from the quanta in the nanoperm core as they fail away.










Offline synchro1

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Re: Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2022, 10:05:14 PM »
Old comment.