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Author Topic: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !  (Read 21641 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« on: January 19, 2007, 03:31:31 PM »
Hi,
here is a nice video to see,
how hydrogen must be fed into a combustion engine:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1400360016821042640

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Offline ZeroFossilFuel

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 04:59:01 AM »
Great video link. This almost makes me wonder if HHO delivery couldn't be regulated by using standard or slightly modified fuel injectors. Hmmm. Wheels turning.........

Offline buzneg

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 05:06:33 AM »
I thought you just run a hose to the air intake

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 05:06:33 AM »
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Offline IronHead

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 05:07:33 AM »
The above video  is if you are using pressurized hydrogen .

You can run a hose right to the air intake . But in an HHO Cell many people like to use the advantage of vacuum as you extract more HHO from water in an electrolyzer when under vacuum . So we look for the highest vacuum at idle and the highest at acceleration .
You really dont need alot of HHO at idle as the engine takes little fuel to idle. But some like to squeeze all the fuel millage they can get so  this is the resign for the idle vacuum line.

The problem with this is the vacuum changes as you accelerate . So we are looking for where these changes are and how to tap them without causing Hydrogen to get into places it should not be.

Offline buzneg

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 05:11:33 AM »
ok cool. on another topic, did anyone find a cheap place on the net to find SS yet?

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 05:11:33 AM »
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Offline ZeroFossilFuel

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 05:17:09 AM »
This is if you are using pressurized hydrogen .

Understood. Engine finds it's own air/fuel mixture by speed. Revs too high, mixture leans out. Ignition timed at or near TDC mitigates heat buildup even when leaned way out. It still makes me wonder about possibile application to HHO on demand. I'll let the subconscious work on it now overnight and see what it comes up with in the morning. Cheers.

ZFF

Offline IronHead

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2007, 05:35:33 AM »
 Engine on 100% HHO . The first thing to take into consideration is that when burning HHO  there is little time for heat to migrate as HHO burn so fast. The engine will and does run much cooler on HHO gas. If you can produce that much HHO. The way I have found to control it is electronics . Large programmable PWM (48330 Motor Controller)  with pot on the throttle along with TPS connected to the ECM listed below . Start the low point at lets say 20 amps and the full throttle  at 100 amps or whatever might be required always having pressure build just above  required to run the engine, an accumulator .

With full on HHO you would produce enough HHO to pressurize  so in this case you would inject the HHO with injectors and controller . This system would also control timing curves via crank trigger or other. The best thing I have found to do all of this is .  http://www.megasquirt.info/

This is just the way I do it and not the end all be all.
I have a tendency to over build everything.

Keep on it , it can be done
IronHead

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2007, 05:35:33 AM »
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Offline ZeroFossilFuel

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2007, 06:12:49 AM »
If pure HHO runs cooler, what all the crap about SS valves, ceramic coating the pistons and cylinders, etc? Is it just that? Crap?

Offline IronHead

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2007, 06:23:02 AM »
yup pretty much. I thought the same at one time,  but there is  no need for ceramic coating or stainless exhaust . People thought the water content was so high you needed SS but this is not true .How much water do you blow out the tailpipe that was sitting in the pips all night . . Ceramic  was done by BMW because they thought that Hydrogen burning at such a high temp would cause melt down but did not consider with  high O2 content the burn time would not allow migration. 

I would do SS valves as the valve do take abit of heat on there thin edge  .Other than that there is no need for all the other  stuff. Again this would be for pure H and air  or HHO. HHO is much more powerful and faster burning. with just H you do lose some power over gasoline , and the temps are abit higher. Some report up to 15%to 25% power lose. With HHO that would be a 20+% increase in power and much lower heat.

Many people are now reporting with the larger S-Cell installed  having a n increase they can feel although there have been no dyno test I know of yet. There will be some reports soon from people I have been working with through email coming to the HHO thread talking about results.

IronHead


« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 07:18:33 AM by IronHead »

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2007, 06:23:02 AM »
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Offline buzneg

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2007, 07:11:27 AM »
how much would that be in MPG. This company can get a 45% mpg increase, apparently. I was almost going to buy from hydrogen-boost.com until I saw that the device itself only attchieves about a 12% increase, and the rest is the driving habbits and matanence. This co. I don't see any dicliamers like that, they say in their FAQ "This is a simple "bolt-on" solution." I hope so

http://www.chechfi.ca/sotesti.htm

Offline IronHead

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2007, 07:16:16 AM »
wow !  these company's are coming outa the wood work.It is about time.
 All I can say is it seems to be working. HHO is in the market to stay.
For those that are not able to build such a thing.

I would reseach the company well and even give them a call ,they might
have a nice drop in solution for you .
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 04:41:38 PM by IronHead »

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2007, 07:16:16 AM »
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Offline ZeroFossilFuel

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2007, 10:22:34 PM »
Back to the topic, I've been playing with various configurations of feeding just ahead of the butterfly in the intake ductwork. At right angles to the air flow with a wedge cut facing downstream, 3/8" ID tube, best vacuum at WOT, 6000 RPM is 0.3" Hg.

Best vacuum overall has a right angle fitting in the tube going into the duct facing downstream toward the plenum, then a small section of tubing into a funnel just a bit larger than 1/2 the diameter of the duct at the mouth. Any larger than that I believe would restrict air flow too greatly. Same throttle and RPM, ~1.25" Hg.

There are no leaks. The system is sound. If anyone has any hard data on the vacuum signals they are getting by accurate measurement at this feed point, please share them with us here. Thanks.

ZFF

Offline ZeroFossilFuel

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2007, 05:19:57 PM »
Just a quick FYI, with a 3/8" tube in my Honda plenum duct, wedge cut facing the butterfly, I am pulling about 6" of water. Not sure what the relation is to mercury. I'm guessing it's pretty close to the 0.3" mercury I barely see on my vacuum guage. Today I am building a venturi to suspend inside the duct made from 1" ID and 3/4" ID pvc glued inside each other and filed out by hand. I hope to have some accurate comparison data for you in a few days.

ZFF

Offline kewlhead

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2007, 03:14:26 AM »
Inducting Hydrogen thru the air intake seems like it wuld cause the same kinda problems asocitated with water injection.This site here has alot of informatiom about water injection and I think wuld be a more reliable soltution to place the Hydrogen in with the best water injection configuration to esstablish a decent bennifit from actually use'n it but ya never know till ya try or can find somebody that has and can prove it.http://www.enginerunup.com/shop.php/pictures/i_9.html

Offline Draco Rylos

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Re: Feeding Hydrogen into engine tips !
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2007, 10:50:27 PM »
I think someone else mentioned it, but is it possible to use the fuel injection rails to introduce the hydroxy into the engine? I want to try as much as possible to introduce the hydroxy into the engine of the cars I am working with. I have a '90 Dynasty that currently just needs me to replace some fuel lines that lead to the rails from the main fuel lines and a '90 Grand Am that I need to find an engine for.

 

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