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Author Topic: This one is intresting.  (Read 10201 times)

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2022, 07:27:44 PM »
@Pix


I understand, but is not easier and simpler just to replicate this setup as it is built on the video?
It would show the veracity in exactly what is shown, at smaller scale...besides being much cheaper.

If you notice on this setup (video) the motor is a Two Phase, running off the two faces (out of Three total) that Alternator have as Output...So, He uses the other phase (120V AC) to run drills and other tools...

Anyways, I just wanted to render an opinion here...not important.

Cheers




Ufopolitics

Offline bistander

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2022, 08:42:42 PM »
Hi Ufo & all,
It's called a Lundell or claw rotor

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Exploded-view-of-a-Lundell-alternator-3_fig3_237464668

And replacing it with PMs cannot increase voltage X10 unless RPM is increased X10.

bi

Edit, ps.  Skew of magnets or pole face edge is done to reduce cogging. No magic there.

Offline citfta

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2022, 09:07:01 PM »
Hello bistander and all.


Sorry to disagree with you Bi but in the normal use of an automotive alternator the output is controlled by the field current which is controlled by the voltage regulator.  There used to be kits you could get to bypass the regulator that would increase the field current so that you could use the output of the alternator to run 120 volt electric drills or saws.  Before the days of all the battery powered tools they were used by contractors on job sites for their power tools.  Of course the power tools had to have brush type AC/DC motors as the output was only DC.


So strong magnets on the rotor can provide 120 volt output without turning the alternator 10 times faster.


UFO I am curious where you got the idea the motor was 2 phase as he plugs it into the same power strip that he plugs the drill in to?


Take care guys,
Carroll




Offline activ25

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    • i%4-1KuequidD`vb{Tbff`Vbndndkdnogr1:201:90
Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2022, 09:10:23 PM »
If you increase the voltage so the current decreases no ?

Offline pix

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2022, 09:42:58 PM »
@Pix

If you notice on this setup (video) the motor is a Two Phase, running off the two faces (out of Three total) that Alternator have as Output...So, He uses the other phase (120V AC) to run drills and other tools...



This ia ONE phase motor with capacitor. Three cables:
-phase
-neutral
-PE ( grounding protection)

PS.
The reason I am going to use 2,2kW squirrel cage motor is that I am going to make more powerfull generator, I can use 3x 230V at output. I understand principle so I don't need to blindly follow the same what guy did with alternator. Besides, he mentioned that he used car alternator simply because he didn't had 3 phase induction motor at hand.
There are many places on the web where subject of converting induction motor to PM generator is fully explained.

Cheers,
Pix

Offline bistander

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2022, 09:45:06 PM »
Hi citfta,
You might be right. I was forgetting that automotive alternators are designed to output rated voltage at idle speeds, so turning them at 3000-3600 RPM and getting a bit more flux from the field might get near 10x generated voltage. But even neo PMs won't get you 10x flux over a wound field running near saturation.
bi

Offline pix

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2022, 09:54:06 PM »
Hi citfta,
You might be right. I was forgetting that automotive alternators are designed to output rated voltage at idle speeds, so turning them at 3000-3600 RPM and getting a bit more flux from the field might get near 10x generated voltage. But even neo PMs won't get you 10x flux over a wound field running near saturation.
bi


Electromotive force induced in the stator windings depends from rotational speed, intensity of magnetic field, length of active conductor,
So, with constant values:  neodymium magnets B=1Tesla, active length of conductors in the stator, your generated voltage depends from variable- rotational speed of alternator.

PS.
Why I choose induction motor? Compare length of induction motor versus alternator  :D
Longer active length of windings in stator ( more copper )= more electromotive force.

Cheers,
Pix


Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2022, 10:36:34 PM »
WOW!!

It is really great to see some old friends around here!!
Skeptics but still friends from long back ago!!

Anyways, I am not getting involved on this project at the moment....am too busy building a Perpetual Magnet Motor...LOL




Cheers and nice to see you Two together again, Citfta and Bistander!!

It reminds me of old times... :)



Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2022, 10:40:30 PM »
Hello bistander and all.


Sorry to disagree with you Bi but in the normal use of an automotive alternator the output is controlled by the field current which is controlled by the voltage regulator.  There used to be kits you could get to bypass the regulator that would increase the field current so that you could use the output of the alternator to run 120 volt electric drills or saws.  Before the days of all the battery powered tools they were used by contractors on job sites for their power tools.  Of course the power tools had to have brush type AC/DC motors as the output was only DC.


So strong magnets on the rotor can provide 120 volt output without turning the alternator 10 times faster.


UFO I am curious where you got the idea the motor was 2 phase as he plugs it into the same power strip that he plugs the drill in to?


Take care guys,
Carroll




You are right Citfts...it is a Single Phase Motor...
Plus you are also right about voltage regulator and Current regulation on a car Alternator...
Men, I have worked with these small alternators forso long...rebuilding them, testing them, etc,etc...


Nice to see ya around


Regards




Ufopolitics

Offline pix

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2022, 10:49:56 PM »
Ok,
Enough to explain you guys why and what.
Time to do some job.
All is boxed  and wired together.
Tomorrow- testing generator mode of 3 phase induction motor with 18 and 30 microfarad capacitors. Just to see and fulfill my curiosity.
Once this is done I am going to strip open one motor and work on the rotor to nicely accomodate most powerfull magnets I can get.
Will post some pictures when done.


Cheers,
Pix


Offline citfta

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2022, 02:15:56 AM »
Pix,


Since I don't know your background or experience with strong neos I hope you won't be offended by this suggestion.  Be VERY careful working with those strong magnets.  Keep them far apart from each other unless you have a way to hold them very securely.  If two of them snap together they have enough force to take a large chunk out of your flesh.  They can even break bones in your hand if your hand should get caught between two of them.  I don't mean to sound like a know it all but I have been working with strong magnets for several years now and know firsthand how dangerous they can be.  You may already know this and if so just ignore my post.  But I didn't want to hear that you had gotten hurt because you weren't aware of the danger of strong magnets.


Respectfully,
Carroll


PS:Good luck on your build.  I will be following your progress.

Offline Apaajaboye

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2022, 03:40:27 AM »
Video is Ok and Good but there are a few things that make it less of an experience:
1. AC Motor connects a Modified Generator from the Alternator Car and produces a voltage of 220V 50Hz or 60Hz or let's say a certain frequency is generated.
2. The speed of the driving motor is based on the frequency emitted from the generator. Does that make sense, from where the motor speed can remain stable? a slight change in the speed of the motor will change the frequency of the output coming out of the generator and it works in need of each other and vice versa a slight change in the frequency of the generator will change the speed of the motor. In the video there is no Frequency Drive so that the motor speed remains stable, so the thing that makes a lot of sense is that the video is fake, if it is real, the motor speed cannot be stable and the rpm should be increase at the time.

Offline seychelles

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2022, 04:58:58 AM »
ALL I CAN SAY IS THE MOTHER AND FATHER OF FREE ENERGY IS EFFICIENT.
AND ONE NEEDS TO KNOW WHERE THE SOURCE OF THAT ENERGY. SO THERE IS NO
EFFICIENCY IN THAT CONTRAPTION. HE SAID THAT THE SOURCE OF ENERGY IS FROM THE
PERMANENT NIBS, NOT. TO EVERY ACTION THERE IS AN EQUAL REACTION YEAH. WELL STRONG NIBS
IN THAT ARRANGEMENT EQUAL TO STRONGER BACK NEGATIVE EMF.

Offline bistander

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2022, 08:37:38 AM »
Besides all the other reasons it can not work, how's this one? The synchronous generator (alternator) drives the asynchronous (induction) motor at X Hz electrically. The motor drives the generator at X-s Hz, mechanically, where s = slip. But if generator is driven at X-s Hz it cannot put out X Hz. Input frequency to motor is too low for it to produce torque to drive generator at the speed it is running.
bi

Offline pix

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Re: This one is intresting.
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2022, 03:52:16 PM »
Ok.
Testing of ansynchronous generator mode of induction motor done.
Absolutely satisfied- ordinary 3 phase squirrel cage induction motor can work as efficient AC generator without any modification, only by connecting capacitors to it's terminal.
In theory such motor should be rotated above nominal rpm ( in my case 1420 rpm), in fact my generator got electric excitation  running at 1193 rpm  :) .
It self excited due to residual magnetism of rotor.
Here are running parameters of generator:
Test 1- 1193 rpm,  3 x 18 microfarad capacitors,  279-280V no load, with 250W load  voltage drops to 256V
Test 2- 1844 rpm, 3 x 18 microfarad capacitors, 568-570V no load, I didn't connected my bulbs I was scared
Voltage in this type of generator is regulated by capacitors, more load-bigger capacitors needs to be connected to keep voltage constant. In case of 3 phase generator, better to take load from 2 phases, one phase keep not loaded. This way it will not loose excitation under bigger loads because one phase will always keep magnetising .


So, if you need an emergency power supply in your home, just use any prime mover (for example grass cutter petrol engine ), connect it with a v-belt with 3 phase induction motor ( 4 pole,1450 rpm) , connect 3 working type capacitors ( 11-18 microfarad per phase)  to motor terminals and run engine at 1500 rpm. You will have 230V/50Hz supply, power will be nominal motor power.


Cheers,
Pix