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Author Topic: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in  (Read 6033 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2022, 10:56:20 PM »

Hi Jimbo,

The concept of embedding a permanent magnet into a ferromagnetic enclosure and use a coil to control the setup was also proposed by Jack Hildenbrand, see his drawings in his thread here: 
 https://overunity.com/833/hilden-brand-magnet-motor/msg22925/#msg22925 

He built several motors with his concept, you can see some pictures on motors he uploaded in his thread but later he deleted them all (mainly due to the patenting process) and someone from the members here saved some of them in this site:
 http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Inventors/Jack-W-Hildenbrand/   
In the folder you can see a video on a test demonstrating the Hildenbrand valve principle, done by another kind member here back then.   

Jack patented the concept as "System and method for utilizing magnetic energy", US7453341, the pdf file is also included in the folder.   He claimed a COP of around 2 (to 2.5) for his motors based on the concept https://overunity.com/833/hilden-brand-magnet-motor/msg23790/#msg23790 
(COP = Coefficient of Performance).  Unfortunately Jack deceased in an illness soon after he got the patent and, as I know, no successful replications have been done ever since to get COP > 1 with the concept. 

There was another member here, DMMPOWER, who showed a drawing on the concept as a "super" electromagnet, see here: 
 https://overunity.com/4624/how-to-make-bedini-motor-overunity/msg96814/#msg96814 

And see Floor's post with a link included in it:
https://overunity.com/13354/perm-magnet-only-core-with-iron-shell-motor-coil/msg563135/#msg563135  and see the start of the thread here:
https://overunity.com/13354/perm-magnet-only-core-with-iron-shell-motor-coil/msg354318/#msg354318       

Please do not misunderstand my mentioning the above examples, your efforts and enthusiasm are appreciated and please continue tinkering with this concept.

Gyula


Here's a drawing

Offline captainpecan

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2022, 11:43:47 PM »
I didn't realize anyone here was working on this project as well. Just found the thread. I've been working on this concept for a bit now. What originally got my mind running on it was the work of Robert Murry. He has a video of your exact drawing.


@Floor,
I also just noticed you have been working on very similar concepts since at least 2013. I was gone for many years, I'm getting caught up. I missed a lot. This was part of what made me interested in the Tinman resurrected project as that concept could be a perfect marriage with this one. I'll start posting my work here as well if we have some like minded people in here interested.


Here is the video I found that is this exact idea. Maybe where the neos in washers design you may have seen even came from.
https://youtu.be/4xZa1JGP2oc


For anyone who hasn't seen his work, Robert Murry has phenomenal videos you should really sort through. Great stuff.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2022, 12:09:50 AM »
This is what Jimbo is referring to... I made this a bit back but haven't finished it yet. Just needs the wire wrapped on it. It's 1 of about 20 ideas bouncing in my head I need to work with and learn more about. I'll get this one wrapped and do some tests real quick. I want to test this pretty heavily as well a little twist I have planned. I'll share as I go.

Offline captainpecan

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2022, 12:58:34 AM »
@ gyulasun

Tons of good info there. I just got done reading his patent. Thank you for posting that. There is a lot more I need to look through from all you posted. Great stuff.

Offline jimbo

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2022, 08:12:32 AM »
Yes this has a history but new to me I'm trying to come up with a motor with hardware store parts .so far I've settled on steel pipes as rotors and the shell over the magnets .I've got a lot of high strength ferrite magnets from a long time ago .I'm going to stack them inside the pipe and cut 45deg ends and go on a 90deg angle to the rotors .its interesting that this might be scalable .I need more parts ...I've course ..I'm also going to make a fan out of this .for personal use .I was thinking that what might happen if it was apposing solenoids  each with 1 to 4 would that in repulsion mod be 2 to 8 ?. Or as a solenoid motor with a neo core piston and a iron shell wrapped neo .it would be pulled in on no power and go out half way on full power so you would need a coil with a centertap and fire that to get it out the rest of the stroke.there would be no dead stroke. And 1to 4 out with a pull back in stroke . might be a simpler motor.and 4 times the power for the same energy.  I'd like to see just how much comes out and if it will run several more units asking for four more units would be hard to believe. I saw a guy using this with a old transformer getting more out as electrical power then in .it pluses positive only . to much information over load .got to rest my mind . if the pipes work out ..and I don't see why not ..you could just fill up pipes or stack up magnets and rap the pipe very simple. Not need for machining just a hack saw and drill.

Offline jimbo

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2022, 08:22:49 AM »
If this pipe approach works no need for exact tight dimensions like with the washers .just dump and go .its the flux field that's being manipulated .you can fill the voids with iron .like welding rods ect.. Oh look up Flynn magnet motors its a little different but not much .its his iron stamped sheet cores that's hard to get past .so off the shelf it going to be. Not as well engineered but if it works !.

Floor

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2022, 07:38:56 PM »
' ' ' '

Floor

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2022, 09:36:54 PM »
' ' ' ' '
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 01:52:03 AM by Floor »

Offline citfta

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2022, 01:51:56 AM »
Since we are talking about making a coil that is much stronger than a normal coil I wondered how hard it would be to make a gauss meter.  They are pretty expensive if you buy one but very cheap if you are willing to make your own.  Of course they won't be calibrated but would be good for relative measurements.  I found this article on line for anyone interested in making their own;


https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=gaussmeter


Carroll

Floor

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2022, 01:52:24 AM »
' ' ' '
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 04:09:07 AM by Floor »

Floor

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2022, 04:09:25 AM »
Clarification of intent / approaches / design and some possibilities ?

We have concepts and / or designs,  wherein the intent is to
                                   suppress
a permanent magnet by means of the application of an opposing
electromagnet.  This is already being used in scrap metal lifting cranes
and so on.  No    direct    net gain here.
... ... ... ... ...
We have concepts and / or designs,  wherein the intent is to
                                      shunt
magnetic force in such a manner that the process of the
        cyclical, shunting and / or switching of that magnetic current from
shunted to un shunted,
                           will consume less energy than can be gained from
the energy difference between the application of that force when shunted and un - shunted.
... ... ... ... ...
We have concepts and / or designs,  wherein the intent is to
                                            balance forces
                 such that force vectors and / or other characteristics
              may be rearranged without a net opposition by magnetic forces
                                               and in turn
              those rearrangements give rise to  interactions which are profitable
                                      in terms of an energy gain.

... ... ... ... ...
We have concepts and / or designs,  wherein the intent is to
         stall or slow down in time / create some form of stasis in an event
                                     during which period we
                                     move a field or exit it,
                                                     or
                       in some other way alter some relationship/s
     such that force vectors and / or other characteristics may be rearranged without
                                                or with little
             significant opposition and there by profit, in term of an energy gain.
... ... ... ... ...
                  We have concepts and / or designs,  wherein the intent is
                   multiplications or additions (cascading) of force where in
                                                          there exits
                                                    no   apparent  gain,
                              because increases must be reversed or undone
                                             in order to proceed cyclically.
                                                                but
                      those forces can while in their multiplied state / conditions
                                                  give rise to changes
               which do not subtract from the energy used to cause reversal / undoing
                                                          and instead
                      only cause a delay in time in the macro world, of that reversal / undoing
                                   (apparently simultaneous to that reversal / undoing)
                                                              behavior
                               (which is  in some manner is like unto the behaviors
                                        of those, theorized, particles, which physics
                                                          has termed virtual).
... ... ... ... ...

                                              Some combinations of the above.

                                              Some of the above may be statements of
                                              essentially the same things.

                                              Other options.

Offline jimbo

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2022, 05:31:50 AM »
Citfta
Great find can't beat it for 10 bucks .  floor what are you taking about ? I have found a video from a guy that has done some work on using neos on a transformer and pulses it with DC .he shows the no neo out put and the neo out put .big difference and simpler to do .he uses a Small DC motor and with the neos it speeds up and the volts drop like from 5 or 6 to 1 to 1 1/2 volts  but no inline resistor on the input or out put to give wattage differences if any .if there is then my next question would be what if I did two in series ?. Ect . I'll dig it out for you guys .

Offline jimbo

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2022, 05:39:29 AM »
Here's the vid


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=atUTu8sg94w


Flynn if your concerned about output check out Flynn magnetic motor he's got a industry built around it .and in his diagrams its 1 in  and 4 out .

Offline jimbo

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2022, 06:08:11 AM »
Hi here's what got me going down this road .I was looking at bedini motors and looking for improvement. John said he got about 80 to 85 % return on his system the magic was in the h wave and the batteries .but he also said that if you included the unused mechanical aka the rotation then it is over unity .so I noticed he didn't use the south end of his pluse coils .so i am adding a second wheel next to the first and south then the coil would need to have a horse shoe core . then I saw that some of the guys were using magnets under the coils and it didn't speed things us but reduced the input energy by 2/3s  ..interesting ? Then I found this neo core raped in iron raped in copper windings .1 in and 4 out so I'm going that way with the horse shoe coil.by placing a neo string inside of the bedini coil and making the core larger to accommodate the new stuff. All of these changes should have a effect on the system .by cutting input and adding out put mechanical . hell just using the rotation put it into over unity according to john his should really do it . but now in got my noise stuck in that neo transformer thing .well it keeps me out of the bars  is this what hell is like ?.

Floor

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Re: New electromagnet configuration 4 times out verses in
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2022, 06:17:07 AM »
floor what are you taking about ?

There are several methods of approach in regard to electro permanent magnet interactions.

No doubt.  In some conditions the combination of an electromagnet and a
permanent magnet will      increase         the magnetic force from the magnet.
They add up.

No doubt.  In some conditions the combination of an electromagnet and a
permanent magnet will       decrease      the magnetic force from the magnet.
They subtract.

There are other things that one might hope to accomplish.

for example...
 
The turning on and off of a magnetic current, by a method which might in some
ways be like unto the way a transistor can turn on or off an electric current.
I refer to this as      shunting      the magnetic current into another path or as
simply  shunting.

Some transistors use an extremely low amount of power to do that switching.

If a permanent magnet can be switched in that way, this would be free energy from
that magnet.


There are other approaches to the goal of gaining energy as well. 
Some of them, I listed above.


It is good to have some idea as to which approach one is using,
as well as why it might work.
No ?

How would you define the approach which you are using ?

   hoping for your success
              best wishes           
                         floor