Free Energy  searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Johnsmith on January 11, 2022, 03:36:24 PM

With Bessler's drawing Mt 85, this gets into both torque and force. And I started this thread because
this will be more about the science of how a pendulum works and some of the math behind it. And as
Milkovic has shown https://youtu.be/935Ktoxw1fM, timing does matter.
Bessler shows a swinging weight pumping water in a machine. And to reset the fulcrum of the pendulum
requires the use of a cantilever. In the 2nd image, weights not shown help to raise the bridge. Elevators
also use a weight so the elevator itself might not have much weight when it comes to it being lifted. That
helps to save energy.
With how efficient a pendulum is, when Milkovic's pendulum drops down, can some of that energy be
used to accelerate his pendulum? And this is where considering f = ma will help. This is because the
downward force of the pendulum is caused by inertia (I = ma) and gravity. Yet the movement of the pendulum
is lateral to the flow of gravity. That is the main reason why it's efficient. And now we're discussing engineering.
p.s., a ratchet type mechanism might work with this concept. It could help to
control when the pendulum is accelerated.

Does a selfrunning double Milkovich pendulum actually exist?
It didn't work out for me. It didn't work out yet. ;)

Does a selfrunning double Milkovich pendulum actually exist?
It didn't work out for me. It didn't work out yet. ;)
I'll make a design engineering drawing this coming weekend. With his pendulum, it might
be able to pump water while operating perpetually. And from my experience with Bessler's
wheel, designing it is the easy part. Fabricating it can show design flaws which means that
work that's been done has to be done again.
I'll give you some hints, everything but the ratchet forest mentioned is in the 2 drawings.
This is a test, right?

To consider how to go perpetual with Milkovic's Pendulum first we need a pendulum. Am I right or am I right?
And with the work that I'm doing on Bessler and having to make tooling, go to the store, just didn't have much
time for this but threw together a quick model.
A bonus hint, the pendulum swinging towards you will be swinging upwards. The model took only about
an hour to do so didn't put much thought into it. With how the pendulum's are positioned, the back would be
dropping while the pendulum in front is swinging upwards. Yet the crossbar is parallel to the ground. This would
show that the back is dropping faster than the pendulum is swinging upwards. It will take some getting used to
thinking about how a Milkovic pendulum functions.
That is something that needs to be considered. The swinging pendulum's greatest velocity will be at bottom
center below its fulcrum. And then it will start slowing. There are some issues with how this function matters.
And this might be where it can be improved and why there is this thread.
And a 2nd bonus hint, it is possible that Milkovic limits the tilt of the crossbar. Otherwise it might be difficult to
time the swing of his pendulum for show. A shorter radius for the swing allows the pendulum to oscillate more
quickly. And it won't perform much work, why he does it for show. It's to get people interested in his work
which is a good idea.
p.s., what I might do is as I add each component, maybe someone will understand what I'm doing. If so then they
can say how they figured it out. But can I test the testers? Hmm? I dunno know.
p.s.s., I happen to like the pic just so you know. Can we play Jenga! with an idea or are we on Jeopardy? Hmmm!?!
Alex, I'd like to take perpetual motion for 1,000.
p.s.s.s., I have contacted Milkovic and he can follow this thread if he wants to. I have previously discussed his work
with his son so who knows. It's been over a decade and no one has come up with anything yet. Still, according to him
his work on this is to help support those who lack something as basic as a water pump.
His website; https://www.veljkomilkovic.com/indexEng.htm

I have a question why an ordinary pendulum (not double) on a stand
swinging for so long. In his video, which he compares it to spinning a flywheel
that stops much faster. Within a minute, it is still swinging.
I can't do that. Even with very good bearings, my pendulums stop in half a minute. ???
p.s.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os)
It's mine. :)

I have a question why an ordinary pendulum (not double) on a stand
swinging for so long. In his video, which he compares it to spinning a flywheel
that stops much faster. Within a minute, it is still swinging.
I can't do that. Even with very good bearings, my pendulums stop in half a minute. ???
p.s.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6pHcgtK5Os)
It's mine. :)
Most likely the stand that he is using doesn't let him give his pendulum a harder push. What helps to determine
how long it swings is the amount of energy that you give it. Also if you watch it at .25 speed, the fulcrum is
lifting when the weight is swinging from right to left. That decreases the drop of the weight.
In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I it can be seen that the swing of the pendulum is
not timed with its lift or drop. If you watch only the crossbar you'll notice that its movement is haphazard. To attempt
perpetual motion, that timing would need to be corrected.

Most likely the stand that he is using doesn't let him give his pendulum a harder push.
The vibrations of the table at the appropriate frequency can energize the pendulum ...

The vibrations of the table at the appropriate frequency can energize the pendulum ...
The table doesn't directly interact with the pendulum so it really can't influence it. As I work through the design
of what might allow a pendulum to swing perpetually you'll understand why. What everyone will need to consider
is the math behind how a pendulum swings. What this will allow is to time the difference between when a pendulum
swings with a stationary fulcrum and a fulcrum that drops. For a perpetual pendulum it really won't be necessary
but it does show how the length of the pendulum and its period is influenced by gravity. And by not understanding
this, it would be difficult to make one perpetual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw

I tried going to the next step on the pendulum and I think SketchUp wants me to upgrade to SketchUp Pro @ $300 a year.
I can work around that by downloading my drawings and going to my local library. This will slow things up but I do have
my build which I'm trying to get ready so I can start testing again.
With the details I added to the pendulum, they're pulleys but with the program dragging just have to wait to do more.
p.s., with something like this, if a person was familiar with blueprints or 3D design programs then just an outline would be needed.

Does a selfrunning double Milkovich pendulum actually exist?
It didn't work out for me. It didn't work out yet. ;)
Pumpjacks are not self running, no.
They can be almost as efficient as a large clock
Minus the cost of operating the pump.

Pulleys are for lifting. If someone works it out then fine. Repeating what is already known
does not allow anyone to consider where pendulums get their energy from or how work cab be
manipulated. And what can prevent someone from considering something when is seeing criticism
posted. Critics rely on others failing to show they know something everyone has accepted.
And yet the biggest skeptics are found in perpetual motion forums. I'll be having enough work to do
on my Bessler build. Because I damaged my 2 1/2 in. dia. hole saw, I'll need to pour some new
weights with a different shape. Just wanted to use the weights I have. And it is a lot of work modifying
my build. Why it has taken months of work.
And since I think my Bessler wheel can work, I've actually been targeting March/April as when I can
it working. And as you guys know, most people won't do a serious build like I do. That's because of the
amount of work involved.
p.s., The "Keel Effect" prevented any discussion. It had to be accepted as a law of science. And it is.
A body at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by another force. Newton's 1st law of motion.
Of course, I would say that such people are running a scam. The 1 st law of thermodynamics allows
for energy to be conserved.

So I think it would be possible to use some of the water from the pump to push the pendulum.
However, they don't. Instead, there is a man.
Here is also my replication.
https://youtu.be/V6HM7awIS4k (https://youtu.be/V6HM7awIS4k)
If you think about it, this is also a double pendulum.Isn't it?
The top ball in the gutter is Maxwell's pendulum. And below the usual pendulum.
I did not succeed in selfsustaining oscillations. :(

I have a couple of basic questions, I think I need to know, if I am to
better understand these interactions.
1. Do pendulums remain in motion longer than do balanced spinning wheels ?
2. Do balanced spinning wheels remain in motion longer than do
unbalanced spinning wheels ?
floor

Is it possible to maintain undamped oscillations of Maxwell's pendulum parametrically by pulling its suspension at the certained time moments?

Is it possible to maintain undamped oscillations of Maxwell's pendulum parametrically by pulling its suspension at the certained time moments?
With the pendulum, the reason it tilts to the left is the load (weight) placed on the fulcrum to the right becomes less when the pendulum
is not swinging under it. This is why I suggested to people to watch the video and to notice what the crossbar is doing. This shows how
the swinging pendulum and the idle pendulum interact with each other.
The basic idea is for when the pendulum swings inward for it to be hoisted another 3º or 4º of rotation/swing. This would be possible
because the idle pendulum would be further from the fulcrum of the crossbar than the pendulum being hoisted up. And for a pendulum to
swing perpetually it will need to be lifted.
This is where timing the swing of the pendulum and the movement of the crossbar would need to be properly timed. And this is where
knowing how to calculate the period of a pendulum and the inertial force it generates would matter. This is because the swinging pendulum
is the opposing force to the idle pendulum. Which side will drop and how quickly will that happen? That is what would need to be known.
Since I'll have time, I'll be able to download the pendulum skp file (SketchUp uses .skp) and go to the library. I use public transportation so
I could spend more time riding the bus than working on it. I will need to consider upgrading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwNxfs5ocE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwNxfs5ocE)
Well, two pendulums can swing sinhronization on the one side of the lever arm.
not necessarily at opposite ends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwNxfs5ocE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuwNxfs5ocE)
Well, two pendulums can swing sinhronization on the one side of the lever arm.
not necessarily at opposite ends.
They can. With what I am talking about is that one pendulum does not swing. It is a counterweight. If you consider how
a draw bridge is lifted, with this hinged table, it is an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcYxSXz82EQ
If the weight on the right were a pendulum that did not swing, it would be the same thing as having an idle pendulum.
I probably will need to continue with design so everyone can better understand it. After I have my camera, I might make
a video to show what I am talking about. It would be to show what I mean by timing and when the swinging pendulum
would need to be lifted.

Okay, tomorrow make a Maxwell pendulum on the balance beam.
And pulling the lever at certain points in time, its oscillations will become undamped.
I hope.

Okay, tomorrow make a Maxwell pendulum on the balance beam.
And pulling the lever at certain points in time, its oscillations will become undamped.
I hope.
I may need to stay with the drawings. I do have my build that I am doing. Next month I might
be able to do a demonstration. It will be more work for me to do. And this gets into engineering.
I have worked out a lot of the design. And to try for a working build like any build will be
challenging. It will need to be done in steps. And it might be better if someone else that is
interested tried this. I do need surgery and so I need to focus on that goal.
p.s., the purpose of this thread was to get other people interested in how something might work.
The math for the period of a pendulum is easy enough to do. And then a weight on the end of a
piece of string will let them actually see the math in motion. The top of the string could be dict
taped in a door way. It doesn't need to be anything fancy to understand the basic principles involved.
That is the first thing that someone would need to understand. Then after that, how could
leverage and pulleys lift the pendulum higher? If taken one step at a time then they might actually
understand it.

With that said, I can go over the math and explain how to do it on a calculator. With knowing the period
of a pendulum, you can know its velocity. And then you can calculate its inertia. Basically if you have 2
pendulums that have the same weight but only one will swing, the one that swings will develop more
downward force lifting the counterbalance pendulum.
And when the pendulum that can swing is getting ready to change directions, the pendulum that is the
counterbalance will lift the other pendulum. I can make some basic diagrams and show how math influences
a double oscillating pendulum. Once someone becomes familiar with each step of the math, they'll find out
that it's not that difficult. It's just working a couple of problems will show you that you can do it.
So over the next couple of days when I have time that is what I'll do. I think with diagrams and by showing
the math then who wants to can work the problems on their calculator then people will understand why such
a pendulum rocks from one side to the other.
This is the first example. I thought why wait, okay?
The crossbar is 50 cm to each side from the middle fulcrum. Each pendulum is 50 cm as well. Or everything is
20 inches. Same thing. And the inward angle of the swinging pendulum is 22.5º. With this online calculator,
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulastrigright.asp
side c is .50 (meters) and angle a is 22.5. And side b is .46 (meters). This means that the bob (weight) on the
pendulum will drop 4 cm. Side c minus side b.
With a 45º angle, it's about a 15 cm drop and will swing faster. What needs to be known is when
a pendulum swings from the left side to the right side and back again, how far is it from its starting point?
With calculating the acceleration of a pendulum, it's 9.81 m/s * sin x. And when put into a calculator for
22.5 it's 3.75 m/s and for 45 it.s 6.93 m/s.

With the attached image, if you look at the top row of buttons to the right you'll see cos, sin and tan.
When using the sine function, it is from the center line of the fulcrum, this means straight up and
straight down.
Then when 50sin22.5 = 19.13, it is 50 cm * sin 22.5º = 19.13 cm. And since gravity accelerates at
9.81 m/s, if we multiply 9.81 m/s sin 22.5º = 3.75 m/s. That is the initial acceleration because of gravity.
Because at bottom center there is no acceleration, by dividing 3.75 by 2 (3.75/2) = 1.875 m/s.
Why this matters is that the average acceleration is what will allows us to calculate maximum inertia.
This is what will cause the swinging pendulum to drop and the idle pendulum to be lifted. A counterweight
attached to the crossbar serves the same function. What the pendulum is swinging from is also weight.
This is probably why in some videos you'll see where the counterbalance weight can be moved on the
crossbar. And when inertia lifts the counterbalance, gravity is not doing that work. This is important. This
is because when the counterbalance drops, gravity is doing that work. And that is the work that can
be used to either accelerate or lift the swinging pendulum. And this is where timing matters.
I will give people time to try some of the math. I think for this you'll find it's not that difficult.
p.s., if sqrt4 = is Googled then their calculator will be the top search result. It's functions are on the left side.

With this math example, I'll be using 45º as an example. The rate of acceleration that I'll be using is 9.81 * sin45 = 6.94 m/s.
Then divide by 2 and we have 3.47 m/s. Next what needs to be known is how far the pendulum will travel. Pi or 3.142 is 1/2
of a circle and 45º is 1/4 or .25 of Pi.
Then .5 (radius) * 3.142 = 1.57 meters. And 1.57 divided by 4 (1.57/4) is 0.39 meters or 39 cm. The pendulum's downward
swing is about 39 cm. Then we divide 3.47 by .39 = 8.9. This is a fraction of the acceleration rate, .39/3.47. By dividing both
the top and bottom number we reduce it to a smaller number which is 1/8.9.Then 1/8.9 = 0.11 seconds or how long it
takes the pendulum to reach bottom center.
After this we multiply 3.47 m/s * 0.11 = 0.41 m/s. That's the velocity that pendulum will have at bottom center. We need to
know this so we can calculate centripetal force. If it were a ring or solid disc we'd be calculating inertia. With a single weight
it is centripetal force. And that formula is f = mv^2/2 or mass * velocity squared divided by 2.
Then we have .5 kg * 0.41^2/2 = 0.5 kg * 0.17/2 = 0.5 kg * 0.205 = 0.1025 kg of force. This is in addition to the 0.5kg the
bob (weight) weighs. It represents a 20% increase in downward force. An example is if a 5kg weight is used, it will have 6kg
of downward force. This means that if the counterweight weighs 5.5kg, it will be lifted. This means that a swinging lighter
weight can lift an idle heavier weight which is one form of free energy.
And the 2 designs that I'll be showing for a pendulum will be to use the potential energy a weight has after it has been lifted.
This is because the crossbar will lock into certain positions so potential energy (a weight that can drop) can be exploited/used
to perform meaningful work. And I know the math is a headache for some. This is why I showed each step.
With centripetal force, as the radius of the pendulum increases so will the velocity that a pendulum swings at. This also decreases
centripetal force so that regardless of what height a pendulum swings from or what its radius is, if it swings from 45º it will always
allow for the same 20% increase in the downward force of a weight. This is where someone might say if I get a 20% increase with
a radius of .5meter then I'll increase the radius and go faster. And then they'll be surprised when they did more work and nothing
has changed as far as lifting a heavier weight goes. Where knowing the math can save a person from doing work that isn't needed.
And over the next few days I'll go into how the 2 designs I've mentioned will be an attempt to exploit how centripetal force allows
a weight to do more work than what work = mass * distance allows for. And for me I like using * as times and x for as a variable
that can be any number like y sinx = z. y = radius, sinx or sin x = degrees and z = the answer. Any symbol representing a variable
is associated with what is being shown. Anytime math is explained, the variables will usually be made known what they are.
I would apologize for such a lengthy post but IMO this math is what has been overlooked when considering a perpetually swinging
pendulum. How this can be tested is quite simple. Have a pendulum on one side of a pendulum and a counterweight on the other
side. Then by knowing the weight on each side, torque in nm (newton meters) can be known.
And a .5 kg weight .5 meter from the fulcrum is .5 * .5 = 0.25. Multiply this by 9.81 = 2,45 nm of torque. A swinging pendulum will
be .6kg * .5 = 0.3. And 0.3 * 9.81 = 2.94nm of torque. And by knowing how much torque is generated, how is it to be used? This is
where I'd suggest watching some videos of a double oscillating or Milkovic pendulum. Then when you see, not many examples on
YouTube. With this video, notice how the opposing weight is lifted higher when the pendulum is swinging outward
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1cKWIAFT0I
I think that is what can be exploited. And if so then it will show where doing the math shows how that can happen. And with my work
on Bessler's wheel, centripetal force is generated by an overbalanced weight just as it is with a pendulum. The retraction line that
wraps around the disc cancels out this force when the weight is moved towards the axle of the wheel, why I think it will work.

When the swinging pendulum goes past bottom center (blue to red) is when the crossbar will need to lock in
that position. This way the work the swinging pendulum has done can be stored/conserved. Then the counterweight
becomes potential kinetic energy. A tab can easily hold the crossbar tilted.
I know with my own project that I like to have one of everything on each side. This is because this prevents
twisting of any moving part. And with tabs, one on each side would help to keep the crossbar properly aligned. Some
of the basic elements can be used for a design that uses pulleys or gears while other components will need to be
specific to the concept.
With the toggle, it might be as simple as the 2nd drawing. When the swing pulley is lifted, it will release the toggle.
The toggle would have a line connecting it to the lock mechanism for the swinging pendulum. The swinging pendulum
will need to be held in position while the left side starts to drop. This is basically when the "magic" would start happening.
With the toggle, what's to the left of it would be weight so it would be in that position unless the bar to its the right is
pulled down. When I mention timing, this is when it becomes important.
p.s., with the pendulum on the left, it is a counterbalance and serves no other person. A weight can be attached to the
crossbar that can be moved. That would allow it to be adjusted. And in case people do not understand what nm or a newton meter
is, it is 1 nm = 8.87 inch lbs. or 0.737 ft. lbs. With inch and foot lbs., the amount of weight placed at that distance.
With the metric system, 9.81 nm is 1 kg at 1 meter. For what I'll be discussing, I'll be using nm as torque/leverage values.
What might need to happen is for the dropping counterbalanced weight to transfer its downward force. It'd act like a capacitor of sorts.
I'll probably do a walk through of the concept so everyone will know what needs to happen so it can work.

The stop would be better placed at the end of the counterbalance. If the crossbar is 1 meter in total length then a lift and drop
of 5 to 10 cm might be all that is needed. As the drawing shows, the stop functions at a 2:1 ratio and when the top is rotated outward,
the crossbar will be able to drop without it interfering.
If a counterweight weighs .5 kg then that is the force that will be on the lock. And for it to move 5mm then it will require
4.9nm/200 = 0.0245 nm of work. This then will allow how the swinging pendulum is held at the top of its inward swing to perform that work.
It is a machine and any work performed will need to come from the swinging pendulum itself except for when the counterbalanced weight
drops. Then the work it has conserved from the swinging pendulum lifting it will perform work.
The lock for the stop can be attached to the stand of the pendulum as shown in the drawing. With the stop, it can be moved further outward
and have an extension that holds the crossbar in its up position.
The line going down from the end of the crossbar shows the clearance the stop has. And with this, the weight of the swinging pendulum
will need to drop about 1 cm. If the counterweight drops 10 cm then it can easily lift or rotate the swinging pendulum upward 3 or 4 cm. It
will need to be determined how much motion is lost when the pendulum swings outward and then back in again. It only needs to be lifted
to its original starting position.

This is what hopefully some people have been waiting for. Not everything is in the design. This is where if someone has a computer
that can run the SketchUp program, I am using the free version. And this would allow for file sharing. This would allow for a better
examination of certain details.
The tab to the right of the swinging pulley is best seen 3 dimensionally. This is because it will "catch" the swinging pendulum. And
when the pendulum drops in the catch, it will release the counterbalance stop. This is why the 2 pulleys above the cross bar are at
a 2:1 ratio from the fulcrum/axis of the crossbar. It uses basic leverage.
And then when the crossbar is released, then it will lift the swinging pendulum. The tab on the catch will move away from a pin in
the swinging pendulum allowing it to swing again. And for any design I post, if someone is interested in trying it then we can go into
more detail.
And tomorrow I will show how gears can be used. They'll transfer the same force/work in a different way.
This link is to a larger image. https://photos.app.goo.gl/t3EzyZ8w1nVPyS8B7
p.s., This is where the math that I've been posting matters. It is how to verify that these mechanical relationships can work. And if
someone does want to try this, then they'll know that this design as well as the math can be scaled and adjusted as needed.
p.s.s., am kind of bragging in a way because I bought my computer with using SketchUp in mind. And it has a graphics card
with at least 1 GB of memory. It does require a lot of memory and a decent processor to run SketchUp. And if some wants to try such
a build but can't run SketchUp, I can probably make exploded views with a part separated by color. Then a person would see how the
different pieces fit together. Then if a person wants to, they could use some cheap wood to make a model with before building. That
would probably be best so they could get an idea of how everything works and what it would take to do an actual build.

An email that I received from Milkovic's research team. With that said, if the designs I post work, they would
be considered as an invention. And if someone does build one of them then credit for the invention would
need to be shared. This is about not giving business a free product.
And with Milkovic, his work is about something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9xm9RPVgdw
As he mentions, some people don't have a way to pump water. This is where such work can benefit those
interested as well as those who don't have as it good as some of us.
I also know that some people who might help to invent one of these designs might need the money as well.
It does cost to live and there are some nonprofit groups that might raise money to help build these for what
Milkovic has in mind. This is basically mixing capitalism with humanitarianism.
I will let Milkovic's research team know that a perpetually working double oscillation pendulum is a new
invention which is based on his invention and Bessler's work. And that as such, credit will need to be shared.
Otherwise why would someone want to improve an idea at their expense? And it is this thinking that encourages
people to improve upon existing ideas.
What will need to be accepted is that between the builder, myself and Velko the patent rights will need to be shared equally.
Anyone building my design will need to agree with this to prevent greed from taking over. This is because as I said earlier, if
clocks are powered by this then the value of the patent would become worth money. After all, how much energy does a
pendulum clock need to run? Very little is the answer so this concept and the one I'll be posting tomorrow could be scaled down
to power a clock.

I went ahead and modified the design so it uses gears. A gear will be placed at the fulcrum for the crossbar. And then
2 lines, one on top and below it will connect to another gear next to the fulcrum of the swinging pendulum. This is where
the math really comes into play. This is because the gears will not be your typical gears. The gear next to the outside
fulcrum will have an axle location that will allow for it to be lifted.
And then after it rotates the swinging pendulum upwards, it will release the gear that controls the swinging pendulum.
And this is if anyone is interested on working on either design, let me know. After all, I am working on Bessler's Wheel
and that is a lot of work as any build is. And for a larger image of the gear type pendulum;
https://photos.app.goo.gl/kTvos5DvcUHVdHt78
p.s., hopefully everyone understands that the images that I've shown are illustrations, are to scale and that with an
actual build dimensions will change. And if these designs work (the math says they will), there are other ways as well.
And as for running a clock with either double oscillation pendulum, they can be scaled down. Think about the Atmos
clock. This would be comparable. This is because it would be difficult to manufacture an inexpensive one. And this
would be where the patent might be worth something. And until that happens it is speculation.
p.s.s., the gear at the fulcrum for the crossbar would not rotate. This is why it would rotate the gear next to the fulcrum
for the swinging weight. And this is where understanding gear ratios is necessary. And with how it is connected to the
other gear, a belt could work. This is where discussing things with the builder on either design will determine how they
are built if someone chooses to work on these designs.
@thx4 and kolbacist, since I was thinking about what you both have done, it is up to both of you if you'd be willing to work with me.
And if not then it will be who is.

Why is oil still not pumped using help of Milkovich's double pendulum?

Hello John,
I'm finishing this week a proto that I believe in a lot, which uses a principle not far from yours, but simpler, it's about mounting a weight.
It is in the organization of the weights that we are very different.
I can't show you anything at the moment, but at the end of the week we will know. I am associated in the idea with a member that you probably know is Robinhood46.
If my proto falls through you can count on me.
A++

I can’t still make a successful Maxwell pendulum in any way.
I would never have thought it would be so difficult.

Why is oil still not pumped using help of Milkovich's double pendulum?
It might be interesting if they tried it. With your Maxwell pendulum, is the line securely attached?
You might need to use a screw or drill a hole through the rod that you're using. Also your weight
has to be secured to the rod.

Hello John,
I'm finishing this week a proto that I believe in a lot, which uses a principle not far from yours, but simpler, it's about mounting a weight.
It is in the organization of the weights that we are very different.
I can't show you anything at the moment, but at the end of the week we will know. I am associated in the idea with a member that you probably know is Robinhood46.
If my proto falls through you can count on me.
A++
Bon chance.

thx4 and Robinhood46, some numbers for you guys to consider. This is with the counterweight
and the fulcrum for the pendulum both 50 cm from the fulcrum for the crossbar using a .5kg weight.
If the counterweight drops 5 cm then the fulcrum for the crossbar rotates 11.5°. How work would
be transferred. If the swinging weight is inward at a 45° and it is 50 cm from its fulcrum, the
counterweight will need to drop 3 cm to lift the pendulum. This is by calculating work. The pendulum
would be 15 cm from the fulcrum of the crossbar. It's mass would be factored as 30° of the counterweight.
This leaves 7 cm of drop for the counterweight. For the swinging pendulum to be rotated upwards
at a 1:1 ratio, the counterweight couldn't lift it. And this is where if the counterweight rotates it 2
to 3 cm then the ratio becomes 7:2 or 7:3. That is where free energy could be realized.
This is an example of the math. It could be converted into nm if you guys are familiar with doing that.
I already have a unique design for the gears that control the pendulum because it needs to be caught
then released.
This is where when you guys would like to discuss this further just let me know. Then it can be diagrammed
in a way that you readily understand it. Also, the counterweight would be heavier because as we all know, a
swinging pendulum has inertia which is in addition to gravity.
p.s., I think you guys know the real work starts when you have to work out the mechanics and the details so it will work.

Couple of basic questions.
1. Do pendulums remain in motion longer than do balanced spinning wheels ?
2. Do balanced spinning wheels remain in motion longer than do
unbalanced spinning wheels ?

Couple of basic questions.
1. Do pendulums remain in motion longer than do balanced spinning wheels ?
2. Do balanced spinning wheels remain in motion longer than do
unbalanced spinning wheels ?
And yet you don't understand that inertia increases the work that a swinging pendulum can do?
Myself I think it would be pretty cool to see a perpetual pendulum working. Then it would be a
counterbalanced pendulum that has a single oscillation.
Hopefully you're aware that when a swinging pendulum is moving downward it is moving in the
direction of gravity and not perpendicular to it? This is why mv^2/r increases it's force.
If a pendulum were spinning around a tether ball pole then it would have inertia but no influence
from gravity. This is where the basic math is g * sinx + i = f. See how easy that is? And with a
tether ball orbiting its pole it is i = mv^2/r = f.
This is why a swinging pendulum can lift a heavier counterweight. And that creates a source of free energy.
And I would like to apologize to you but I am not a math tutor. Maybe you could Google one?
p.s., i in the equations I stated is mv^2/r or mass * velocity squared divided by the radius. And g = gravity
gives a 1 kg weight 9.81 newton's of mass. If it's not moving then it has no force because force = mass * acceleration
which is mass * d/t (distance divided by time). Kind of why m/s is used.
And with sinx it is sine times the variable x which is the angle in degrees relative to its axis of rotation.

1. Do pendulums remain in motion longer than do balanced spinning wheels
in which the plane of their rotation is aligned with the force of gravity ?
2. Do balanced spinning wheels in which the plane of their rotation is aligned
with the force of gravity remain in motion longer than do unbalanced spinning wheels
in which the plane of their rotation is aligned with the force of gravity ?
Simple questions.
The answers are no, unless there are friction losses or losses due to energy
being translated into unproductive direction by vibration in one case more so
than the other.
Are you aware of this ?
And yet You don't understand that a swinging pendulum can do no work except that which
is equal to the work that was put into it. Neither do you understand that a pendulum
in its self, does no work that is not then undone by its own motion.
It is true that a pendulum without these kinds of losses and others, would probably
stay in motion for practically forever. This does not change the fact that it contains
no energy that was not put in to it by the initial lifting of the pendulum. Nor the fact
that any energy which is extracted from its motions will decrease the energy content
of the pendulum.
You need to be more creative here than any thing you have presented so far, because
energy does not come from that aspect of inertia which is momentum.
Rest assured, I am already aware that you are not capable of answering simple
direct questions.

1. Do pendulums remain in motion longer than do balanced spinning wheels
in which the plane of their rotation is aligned with the force of gravity ?
2. Do balanced spinning wheels in which the plane of their rotation is aligned
with the force of gravity remain in motion longer than do unbalanced spinning wheels
in which the plane of their rotation is aligned with the force of gravity ?
Simple questions.
The answers are no, unless there are friction losses or losses due to energy
being translated into unproductive direction by vibration in one case more so
than the other.
Are you aware of this ?
And when I read your question, I decide to think about something meaningful so I had mashed potatoes,
mixed vegetables and chicken for lunch. And yes, I did enjoy my lunch.
As for you, do you know how to convert Pi into radians, or degrees or vice versa? If you can't consider
leverage and work then what are you talking about? Your opinion? And yet in both threads specific designs
have been shown which the work that allows for them is based on math.
If you consider how you refuted your own answer which it dawned on you they will be built differently and
thus will work differently. And my mixed vegetables had diced potatoes while I also had mashed potatoes.
And you need to remember, I am working towards realizing perpetual motion and proving that Bessler was successful.
And other people in here share the same goal. There are a couple of tests that thx4 and Robinhood46 can try which
would help them to understand what I am talking about.

' ' ' '

FROM VELJKO MILKOVIC'S NEWSLETTER:
Veljko Milkovic would like to share with you his newest video where he presented his latest achievements in the field of twostage oscillator development – a new improved model with an elastic (flexible) pendulum and elastic (flexible) lever which is far more efficient than the previous oscillator versions.
This fast and superior model has been significantly improved with elastic oscillations that give a better result with both the pendulum and the lever. The work is still underway on further technical improvements.
New Fast and Improved TwoStage Oscillator (VIDEO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wn15yJ9JYY
* English subtitles available in the video player settings *
This advanced technology is being investigated on all continents. There are now over 500 companies from Southeast Asia that are producing, developing and practically applying the machines based on the principle of Veljko Milkovic’s twostage oscillator.

FROM VELJKO MILKOVIC'S NEWSLETTER:
Veljko Milkovic would like to share with you his newest video where he presented his latest achievements in the field of twostage oscillator development – a new improved model with an elastic (flexible) pendulum and elastic (flexible) lever which is far more efficient than the previous oscillator versions.
This fast and superior model has been significantly improved with elastic oscillations that give a better result with both the pendulum and the lever. The work is still underway on further technical improvements.
New Fast and Improved TwoStage Oscillator (VIDEO)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wn15yJ9JYY
* English subtitles available in the video player settings *
This advanced technology is being investigated on all continents. There are now over 500 companies from Southeast Asia that are producing, developing and practically applying the machines based on the principle of Veljko Milkovic’s twostage oscillator.
It's actually a single stage oscillator. It has only one swinging pendulum. That is where I have let his research team know about this thread.
A 2  stage oscillation requires 2 pendulums. Veljko deserves credit for the interest he has raised in this because it does help people as well.
By making a perpetual machine inspired by his work would be a new invention. In Ancient Egypt they irrigated their fields using something
similar. The weight on the other end of the lever wasn't swung. It allowed water to be pulled from the Nile River more easily. With a perpetual
motion design, more work could be done. This would be torque vs power. And for crushing either grain or ore, power is necessary.
Old stone mills used actual stones for crushing grain. This is why windmills and water wheels powered them. And this is what I have suggested,
harnessing the inertial force of a pendulum. If Velko and his team wish to work with thx4, Robinhood46 and myself on this, it would be out of
respect for what he has done. And who knows, maybe no one will be interested in what I have proposed. And that is okay if that is what people
decide.

It has only one swinging pendulum.
Isn't a long horizontal stick a second pendulum?
It has its own oscillation frequency, determined by its mass and length.

Isn't a long horizontal stick a second pendulum?
It has its own oscillation frequency, determined by its mass and length.
It's a counterweight or counterbalance. It would need to be swinging to have an oscillation. When
a pendulum swings, it can be graphed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUfr8WtJuyg
With a graph you can see its oscillations. move or swing back and forth at a regular speed. With the
graph, at the top of each change in up or down direction is a cycle which is an oscillation. The graph
allows for both frequency and amplitude (vertical change in movement) to be known. And with the
distance between each peak on the graph, that represents time.

This machine is a variable lever assisted by a pendulum to change the leverage. When the big weight is close to the fulcrum there is less mechanical advantage and when it is further away the large weight is further from the fulcrum it has enough mechanical advantage to lift the long arm. And it is assisted by the swinging pendulum...BUT WHERE ARE THE WORK IN AND OUT MEASUREMENTS? They are easy to get. 1. the weight of the long arm x distance moved x lifts = work out. 2. work in  weight lifted x distance traveled....
The flexible fulcrum adds a little to the variable lever mechanical advantage.
My magnet assisted pendulum drops from 2 o'clock and travels past 9 and 10 to noon and then slowly drops back down to 5 then stops at 6  where does that 2+ hrs of travel come from?
No fuel or elec or water or wind power.....
Norman

And why then does Milkovich himself call his rocking chair a double pendulum?
the first pendulum is a classic pendulum. The second "pendulum" is a lever.
And if you hang a second pendulum on the other end of the lever, it will be a triple pendulum. :)
I think so...

And why then does Milkovich himself call his rocking chair a double pendulum?
the first pendulum is a classic pendulum. The second "pendulum" is a lever.
And if you hang a second pendulum on the other end of the lever, it will be a triple pendulum. :)
I think so...
He can call it whatever he likes. The work it performs is a stroke like in an engine and not an oscillation.
It can be graphed like a swing or pendulum can and that might be why. With a pendulum, because it has
a bidirectional swing it should probably be graphed with a positive and a negative z axis to show which
direction it is swinging.
With this video, I made it at the end of 2019 because I was bored and had access to both SketchUp and
Final Cut Pro 10. Since y is the amplitude or the difference in how high and low a pendulum swings when
considering its radius is 1 as a reference. If a z axis is used then x will be less than 2r (2 x radius). Then we
can consider something like the Pythagorean theorem where a^2 + b^2 = c^2 or 1 because 1^2 is 1.
Then z^2 + x^2 = π ( 3.142) would allow for the radius of 1 to be used as an example. And this video goes
along those lines but I might've said z^2 + x^2 = y^2. The 2nd statement would be wrong because the relationship
between π and radius would be lost. I haven't actually tried proving it, am just using the Pythagorean theorem as a basis.
An example is if x = 2 then z would = 1.142. Then sqrt both numbers and x = 1.414 and z = 1.068 and y =1. With x, in
a 2 dimensional graph, x = 2 if the radius is 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crcKfIcVSzk
And if you consider Einstein's light from a distant star bending around the Sun, is light 2 dimensional or 3 dimensional?
This gets into space being distorted or warped like Einstein wrote in his paper on the subject. It was proven later by astronomers.

With a counter weighted pendulum, the counter weight can conserve the inertia of the swinging pendulum.
This is because when inertia lifts a weight then work is accomplished because mass x distance = work. This
is where seeing how much weight a swinging pendulum can lift will determine how much work can be conserved.
With pendulums, this is what makes known how much work can be done. This is because when a counter weight
is lifted and held in place, it becomes potential kinetic energy. How that energy is used is determined by the
mechanic working on it.
Some Stevie Ray Vaughn for you guys because she Rocks like a pendulum; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtnDOrbmdvY

The basic test can be as simple as having 2 weights that weigh the same. Then a piece of wood with a hole for a bolt to go through
that allows for the wood to rock. Then have one weight swinging from a string on one side of the board. Then on the other side hang
the other weight.
Limit how much the board can rock to 10 to 15 degrees. With the counterweight, how far from the bolt can it be moved and the swinging weight
still lift it? Then it's a basic math problem of distance times weight minus the distance times weight of the swinging weight.
That will show how much potential energy/work can be generated by a swinging weight.
It is pretty much that simple. Then the question becomes how to harness that potential.
Having the bob (weight of the pendulum) swinging from a board or a rod would be better. And because velocity matters, a 45 degree lift on one
side and then does it get close to its starting point? Because what I have has other arms, not good for testing.
And I had someone message me and tell me that I should enjoy how toxic these forums are. rlortie encouraged AB Hammer to attack me. They're
"real" Americans. AB Hammer went as far as thinking it a compliment when I compared him to a child molester at besslerwheel.com. And he openly
posted to me that he was going to ruin my life because he wanted me and couldn't have me. I would've worked with him if he wanted to but that's
not what he was here for it seems. Yet nothing rlortie or AB Hammer ever did violated forum rules while they got into white supremacy and other
things as well. And with how bad my medical situation is, what's wrong with wanting to enjoy doing something? Kind of why I compare the U.S. to
Ancient Rome and why some people actually tried to take over the U.S. government but weren't tried for treason.
I actually hope to move to Australia.

This device is a simple seesaw lever with the fulcrum shifted back and forth by shifting the heavy weight on a pendulum back and forth like the oil well pumps...Which is very old technology that has great losses in stopping and starting the material movement.
You could also balance it like the hand pump heavy handle to match the well depth and water weight.
You could match two together to minimize the work in but then when you take work out it becomes unbalanced.
SO WHY HAS NO ONE MEASURED THE SIMPLE WORK IN AND OUT IN ALL THESE YEARS?
Its not rocket science.
Norman

It's been measured.
At one point Milkovic thought it was O.U..
But long ago he realized that its not,
and he said so.
The device is an efficient mechanical energy
transmission device in some applications.

So why is this still being discussed when my pendulum dropped from 2 o'clock travels past 10 to 12? clearly 2+ hrs of extra power. So lifting from 6  2 is 4 units and then the output would be 6 units giving 150% OU. My most recent work is still about 200% OU and due to the epidemic of
DDNC "DumbedDownNoCuriosity" there has been only one question up to now about that work.
If curiosity grows I will reveal what you do not see. I do not give my pearls to the hogs because they would misuse them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ74 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FzK2XKQ74)

Pretty nice norman.
Is that a repelling magnet at about 1:00 ?

Already said a couple of months ago.
Pump air into the ROSСH water column using the Milkovich pendulum pump.
Just pump air in this case. The main problem of the ROSCH device is to shove
gas into the water column at low cost. And the main advantage of the Milkovich
pump is more efficient operation. And you will be OU. ;)

Pretty nice norman.
Is that a repelling magnet at about 1:00 ?
the magnets attract on approach and push as leaving...because ??? ?? Those skilled in the arts understand that.
Today I was able to improve and add 1 hr further. So that make 3 extra hrs. 6 in 9 out giving 150%.

Today I was able to improve and add 1 hr further. So that make 3 extra hrs. 6 in 9 out giving 150%.
Since I am in the final phases of what I am building, I have about 3 videos left to make. It has been 300 years
and if it takes me another 2 or 3 months, that is okay with me. After that I will see about a perpetual pendulum
and a magnetic wheel. And you never know, if a magnetic wheel can rotate quickly enough then it might
become its own generator. Of course this would require a 2 stage design for obvious reasons.
What I have been considering is going into a Free Energy business after I am able to demonstrate I know something.
This includes wind turbines, solar panels and clocks. I grew up on Star Trek so have learned a lot about physics.
Then there's Thane Heins; https://archive.canadianbusiness.com/technologynews/thenextgreatcanadianideaperipiteiagenerator/

Today I was able to improve and add 1 hr further. So that make 3 extra hrs. 6 in 9 out giving 150%.
Can you calculate the attraction that a magnet has to iron? Then how does 9.81 m/s affect that?
The distance between the magnet and what it is attracting will change. Gravity and its 9.81 m/s
should affect this as well. This gets into trigonometry and like minded maths. Why observing
magnetic attraction matters.

No because this only shows a principle of the power that is in permanent magnets. My other work is much better.
Norman

No because this only shows a principle of the power that is in permanent magnets. My other work is much better.
Norman
This is where we need a virtual classroom to go over things like this. On one side, a weight rising because of magnetic attraction
while on the other side gravity becomes the dominant force with an assist from magnets. This is where having 4 iron or steel weights
might allow for a continuous rotation. And then we are where I can have some fun and play around with what math allows for.

Isn't a long horizontal stick a second pendulum?
It has its own oscillation frequency, determined by its mass and length.
That is my understanding. I will be building one. I will be testing pulsing the pendulum and using the 2nd stage oscillator for a generator.

It's in this video that he says 12X more output than input has been measured. Glad you blokes started this thread. I've been researching only a couple of weeks before I checked if anyone was doing something here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuuNQcBgGyk&list=WL&index=24

and using the 2nd stage oscillator for a generator.
How?

I actually hope to move to Australia.
I would not recommend it. Stay away.

Johnsmith
I actually hope to move to Australia
It's much better than Canada, here it's cold as hell, women built like Musk Ox, beaches are gravel, winds so extreme it keeps moving all the houses around and nobody knows where they live. Oh and fun is banned, fun is now illegal and you could do hard labor in the moose factories. But Australia sounds... nice.
AC

It's in this video that he says 12X more output than input has been measured.
Why, then, did no one manage to selfpower this device?
using the 2nd stage oscillator for a generator.
If you mean getting an EMF, then this is not easy to do.
This is due to the low speed of movement of the magnetic flux.
https://overunity.com/19018/milkovicspendulum/dlattach/attach/185774/image//
And also here about it.

I would not recommend it. Stay away.
I know people who would like to see me move there. And I even think scientists in Australia might like that idea.
I do know physics and am pursuing an experiment that could help scientists to understand how PSCs (polar stratospheric
clouds) form.
And why does this matter? When Australia burned in 2019, that might've started with what was going on in the lower
stratosphere over and around Antarctica. And this has to do with ODSs (ozone depleting substances) and not global
warming.
At the same time I might like Spain better. They are 5th in the world when it comes to wind turbine manufacturing and I
might know how to improve the efficiency of wind turbines. That would mean jobs for Spain. And since I don't know Spanish,
maybe job creation is a common language? You see, because of my service connected hearing loss I cannot have a life
in the U.S.
The experiment that I am pursing is because I read this about the IPCC's 2013 report. I read this in 2014;
Carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrous oxide (N2O), and methane (CH4) are each important to climate forcing and to the levels of stratospheric ozone (see Chapter 2). In terms of the globally averaged ozone column, additional N2O leads to lower ozone levels, whereas additional CO2 and CH4 lead to higher ozone levels. Ozone depletion to date would have been greater if not for the historical increases in CO2 and CH4.
https://csl.noaa.gov/assessments/ozone/2014/summary/ch5.html
I think if I can explain that and prove it then people will wonder why I'm not allowed to have a life in the U.S. And because it will rely on a new
process in atmospheric chemistry while agreeing with the laws of physics, it became my experiment and one that I need to take responsibility
for. I was hoping scientists would work with me on it and take the lead position while I would be assisting them. The new process is something
that I came up with so I am stuck with it.

and I
might know how to improve the efficiency of wind turbines.
Take me with you. I know how to make a wind generator with no moving parts at all. :)

No moving part, so no energy ? or it it for another goal ?

No moving part, so no energy ? or it it for another goal ?
I think he means that he eats beans and then farts. He was having some fun with it.
My French is not good. I'll find out if I can open your download in Google Chrome. It has a
translator. I had some translated, the Tower of Babel fell for a reason.

He published a new video few months ago
New Fast and Improved TwoStage Oscillator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wn15yJ9JYY