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Author Topic: Kundel With Electromagnet Build  (Read 1238 times)

Offline floodrod

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Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« on: December 29, 2021, 09:06:33 PM »
For those following my initial Kundel Motor build thread, I thought I could adapt the idea and use an electromagnet instead of reciprocators.  So I whipped up a simple / sloppy build.. 

Keep in mind-  this only has 1 propeller so far, and the same electromagnet can power at least 1 more at the bottom....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzwZCLF__NE

Offline synchro1

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2021, 09:45:55 PM »
Getting crazy!

Offline synchro1

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2021, 09:56:15 PM »
For those following my initial Kundel Motor build thread, I thought I could adapt the idea and use an electromagnet instead of reciprocators.  So I whipped up a simple / sloppy build.. 

Keep in mind-  this only has 1 propeller so far, and the same electromagnet can power at least 1 more at the bottom....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzwZCLF__NE


Let's say we split your power coil into two seperate coils with half the wire each. Would that double the power of the coil?

Adding a second spinner is going to cut your RPM in half between the two, not double the power from the input.

You would get the same result from dividing the coil in two to drive the two magnet spinners with the same level of input! So adding a second magnet will half the work each one is doing because they are sharing the same power!

Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2021, 10:22:29 PM »
Watch what happens when I put 27 watts in with the new H-bridge.  Crazy Force....  Getting dangerous!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcOtwfQNck4

"Adding a second spinner is going to cut your RPM in half between the two, not double the power from the input."

Can you explain?  The 2nd propeller would be on it's own shaft on the other side of the electromagnet (underneath in this case)

I could understand it cutting the RPM if I added another propeller to the existing one- but I would think driving another whole propeller on the other side would have no negative impact on the first.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2021, 01:33:10 PM »
Watch what happens when I put 27 watts in with the new H-bridge.  Crazy Force....  Getting dangerous!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcOtwfQNck4

"Adding a second spinner is going to cut your RPM in half between the two, not double the power from the input."

Can you explain?  The 2nd propeller would be on it's own shaft on the other side of the electromagnet (underneath in this case)

I could understand it cutting the RPM if I added another propeller to the existing one- but I would think driving another whole propeller on the other side would have no negative impact on the first.


Here is my "H" bridge oscillator. I use two push button switchs one on each side. An axial ferrite and disc magnet traveller moves back and forth inside triggering the switches.

Watts of input equals Dynes or Newtons of output. The physical force the EM field produces is equal or directly proportional to the Watts of input however the motor is configured!

In other words: You will get the same force from the 2 magnets for each Watt of input as you would from 1.

Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2021, 08:43:57 PM »
Rebuilt today with a little different setup..

Results so far were 3500 RPM at 20.0788 watts input power. 

Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2021, 10:49:16 PM »
My crappy little DC hobby motors seem inadequate to load test this setup.   It's time for me to break out the F&P motor I had stored away for over a decade.

Here's the new Vid of the current setup showing 3500 RPM at just under 21 watts input

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1a42pUME48

Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2021, 07:35:57 PM »
So today I hooked up the F&P motor to a 2:1 gear ratio from an old bicycle.  I did not have enough torque to get the generator going..

But the F&P is still in factory coil arrangement 36Pole 1X12C, which gives the highest Volts, but requires the most torque to get going..

I will have to hook up terminal blocks to the windings and try the following stator configurations:

36Pole 3X4C
36Pole 4X3C
36Pole 6X2C

(for this dirty work, I needed to follow Floor's advice and relo to the garage workbench)..




Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2022, 05:49:44 AM »
Happy New year,

So today I took half the morning winding a 16awg horseshoe electromagnet.  ( my hands are blistering now)..   And added a second spinner.  RPM's are slightly lower now, but torque increased considerably. 

I was able to spin the F&P smartdrive with this setup with the 2:1 ratio gear / chain setup with the stator rewired to 36Pole 3X4C.  But I can barely reach cut-in RPM's, so I can not load test yet..  In this configuration, I should reach 12 Volt cut-in output at 48 RPM.  The F&P is a very big motor and I know on wind turbines they have been known to produce over 600 watts.  I would imaging they can get over double that if spun by a decent RPM motor..  So this may be too big for this setup. The chain gear is adding a lot of unneeded resistance also..  As I see it, I have 3 options:

1. More RPM reduction on the F&P..  I am contemplating creating a magnetic gear ratio, but the price for such magnets to work is prohibitive.
2.  Wind my own generator..  But again- price may be prohibitive, and I have never made one before- so this option is far out there.
3. Keep my eyes peeled for a curb-pickup of something like a treadmill which I can strip out the motor..




Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2022, 06:27:52 AM »
Since I want to see this through- I coughed up the $37 and ordered 2 pulleys and a belt to give me a 4:1 gear reduction. 

Offline floodrod

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Re: Kundel With Electromagnet Build
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2022, 03:35:08 AM »
I got the pulleys and belt in and gave it a whirl..  I got the the F&P spinning with the new rig, but with a huge 25mm shaft, 2 industrial grease bearings, 2 pulleys with a new stiff belt, is all adding too much unneeded resistance to get any kind of accurate test.

Since I already have a spinning shaft on bearings, there is no need for extra shafts, bearings, pulleys, belts, etc...  I need to make a generator that can mount right to the existing setup..  And I need to be able to adjust the gap between the coils and magnets to optimize it..  This part I could use advice on, as I never constructed one before..

I have 6 heavy single winding transformers with cores-  which seem like a good size for this.  One end of the cores comes off easily, so i think I am in luck here..

I printed out a stator to hold all 6 transformers.  The stator will mount to the motor frame with the shaft coming out dead center..
Next I designed and printed the magnet disc, which has TWELVE  60mm X 10mm x 3mm neos which will mount on the shaft..  Both pieces are geometrically aligned.

I should be able to adjust the gap by positing the magnet plate in the optimal spot.  6 coils makes for an easy 3 phase AC configuration.  Add 3x bridge rectifiers  and cross my fingers..

note-  (correct me if I am wrong)  the heavy cores will probably result in heavy cogging, but from what I understand, the cogging is usually only a problem at startup.  Wind turbines usually use air-core coils because they want the mill to start is low wind speeds..  But for this application, the cores should provide greater inductance and are probably worth using on this project.

Any advice welcome!