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Author Topic: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno  (Read 10615 times)

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2022, 01:13:09 PM »
This comment has been deleted because I see an error in the logic that was presented. Please disregard

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2022, 02:15:56 PM »
Also a glitch..
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 04:50:47 PM by floodrod »

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2022, 02:18:25 PM »
This post was a glitch
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 04:50:15 PM by floodrod »

Floor

  • Guest
Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2022, 03:30:35 PM »

No worries
No worries

I generally expect new answers to rise up from the unconscious mind.
This usually means that I spend considerable time thinking the problem
through and clarifying a question or questions.  Then I set it aside with
the expectation that the answer will arise on its own.

I read an account and although I don't know whether it is true or not, the
story goes like this.

The first inventor to put the eye of the needle of a sewing machine at
the pointed end said that the idea came to him in a dream.  In that dream
he had been captured by cannibals.  They threw him in a big cooking pot
and began dancing around it with their spears. The spears had holes in the
tips that were like the eye of a needle ! When he woke up he had his answer.  :)

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2022, 04:52:47 PM »
Urghhhh..  editing on a cell phone is obviously a bad idea.. 

Offline onepower

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2022, 06:26:50 PM »
Floor
Quote
I generally expect new answers to rise up from the unconscious mind.
This usually means that I spend considerable time thinking the problem
through and clarifying a question or questions.  Then I set it aside with
the expectation that the answer will arise on its own.

Most think they are rational, open minded and objective however this is not true. If it was true we wouldn't have all these misunderstandings and problems we do. So we have proof this is not the case.

Knowing this we could ask how do we get around our mind creating a false reality limiting our progress?. The easiest way is to imagine the future, see what progress looks like then try to replicate it in the present. Unless of course we cannot imagine a better future then were basically screwed, lol.

On the Kundel motor we could ask what we expect to accomplish and why?. It's obviously an inferior design because it has too many moving parts and friction. Overunity?, why, where?, there is no apparent mechanism for gain. Personally I always work backwards understanding how a gain could be produced then build the device/technology around that mechanism for gain. Otherwise were just groping in the dark hoping to stumble onto something which seldom works out.

Regards
AC

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2022, 08:08:30 PM »
I did it to learn. I did it to gain some understanding. I did it to experience The ins and outs of it. I have seen very few working models demonstrated on video or the likes.

I never expected overunity from the first attempt.
And if you were following the thread, you will see the point is to take what is good from it and adapt.

There may be no overunity that comes of this. And that is okay. But I consider none of it a waste of time, because I learn more everyday from this experience.


Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #82 on: February 10, 2022, 04:49:52 AM »
Well I will take this one step at a time to gather a little more data on this effect, then decide where to take it. The answer may be simple and pop right out.

I will make 1 additional dogbone rotor and have one on each side of the center spinning magnet. Then I will start to experiment with coding speed / rotation control.

I will attempt to program the spinning magnet to rotate 1 full revolution of 360 degrees at a speed greater than the dogbone can react. If I can successfully calibrate the speed not to affect the dogbone much on only 1 turn, I will be getting somewhere.  If successful I can continue to spinning the center spinning magnet 1.5 turns. 

This may be as simple as that.  If I can spin the center magnet 1.5 turns almost free from resistance from the dogbone rotors, (then pause the spinning magnet)-  it would give me 1 complete revolution ( 2 dogbones each doing a 1/2 rotation) of power out per 1.5 unrestricted revolutions of the spinning magnet which is approximately 1/2 the rotor's mass.

Exactly how much drag will the dogbones be exerting on the spinning magnet during 1.5 quick turns?  Don't Know...

Will two dogbone rotors each rotating 1/2 turn from the force of the spinning magnet rotating unrestricted for 1.5 turns give more power out than in?  Don't Know....

If it's anywhere close, is there any reason why I couldn't just add another spinning magnet on the same shaft and 2 more rotors?  Don't know..

But what I do know is this is the obvious next direction to test.

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2022, 07:10:09 PM »
I have some new info to add to the fast-spinning flipping of fields from today's work so far.  Deciphering it all is another story, so I am just going to keep posting my findings..

I now have 2 identical dogbone rotors on either side of the center spinning magnet.  The dogbone rotors are close enough to be within each others flux field with the center spinning magnet between them both. I am posting 2 videos with these results..

1. Video 1 shows what happens when the center spinning magnet is stationary.  As you can see, when I manually turn 1 rotor, the other rotor is locked in place by the fields of the center magnet.  Only a little attraction between the 2 rotors is seen.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJndTXtFm-8

(I guess this is expected as the center magnet is always in attraction mode to the other rotor).

2. Video 2 shows that happens when the center magnet is spinning at speeds greater than the rotor can gain momentum.  Now the 2 rotors flux fields pass through the spinning magnets fields and lock the rotors together.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RltupQlBTKg

and Once again I tried to confirm vibration in the rotors when the center is spinning.  I can not determine if the magnetic fields are adding to the vibration because the whole platform is a vibrating rig... 

On a side note- I got my nema 23 stepper in and broke it on the first day. LOL..  I have replacements ordered ..  I do have some nema 17's, but they are insufficient to turn the center magnet, so experimentation with timed rotations will have to wait.


Floor

  • Guest
Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2022, 07:28:42 PM »
Thanks.
  Keep enjoying.
       Regards.

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2022, 06:57:21 PM »
Since the center magnet flips by itself 45 degrees every 45 degrees,  I hooked up a timing circuit to only power the driving motor for 1/2 rotation.  (only during the times when the magnetic fields are working against me, which happens to be the same timing when speed over momentum may be advantageous.  ) I also installed 2 small nema 17 steppers as generators to see if I can make it go..

It's difficult to get started but I did manage to make it work.  See it in action here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-N_PuJvWBc

My driving motor is no good for this application because the torque is very low at low speeds and the rotations are not easily controllable. I will need to wait for the Nema 23 stepper, as it should do much better for this application.

The steppers are currently using 2 bridge rectifiers each (one for each coil of the stepper), and the 4 rectifiers are tied in parallel.  I am getting 21 volts out unloaded.  I did not test load, as my fingers are blistering from starting this thing.

I will report back once I get the Nema 23's in and installed

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #86 on: April 15, 2022, 07:08:58 PM »
I wanted to give the old Kundel one last ditch effort before I shelf her also along with the Adams. 

I used the biggest magnets I could and I made the biggest strongest actuator I could.  And it runs...  See the final attempt here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc8l9FLVsTY

My conclusion of the Kundel is as follows:

In every configuration / magnet strength I tried, it lacks torque..  You can get the torque better by spacing the rotors closer to the stator, but it gets VERY difficult to start and bashes around while trying.  But even if you close the gap, you will need to pump the input voltage or it won't run.

The whole idea of the center stator magnet working the rotors against each other is a cool concept, but it comes with downfalls.  The opposing rotor's flux is always in distance of the stator and works against you to find it's equilibrium. With every stroke, the stator needs to pull away from attraction magnets and push into repulsion magnets, thus constantly straining the actuator with every movement.

As I said, the whole concept is fascinating, but I see no possible way to OU with the Kundel at this juncture in time..  If a magic actuator is discovered that improves efficiency in leaps and bounds I may revisit it. But this wraps up my Kundel experiments for now.