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Author Topic: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno  (Read 10630 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2022, 11:33:32 PM »
Spool and spline diametric piston could power from a micro actuator:

Offline synchro1

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2022, 10:17:00 PM »
Nesting this plastic ball bearing spline inside a collar bearing mounted in the bore hole of a spool would add precision balance to the gear. These two types of ceramic bearings would seat together in one end hole of the spool core. A 3d printed spool could recess both bearings in the spool wall along with arc segment press fitted holes. Hypersonic spin velocity would be achievable with nanopositioning of the piston.

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2022, 04:47:12 AM »
I got my magnets in that almost match Kundels... 

I wanted to build the machine a little differently.  No need for such long linear rods, as the throw is very small. And I wanted to design it so I can experiment with sliding magnetic gain concept instead of a voice coil.  And if that don't work well, then i can try Flynn's parallel path concept instead.  Eitherway- I am not thrilled about the voice coil.

My 3d printer settings were not correct and the parts came out crappy.  But it should work for testing..  If it looks promising, I can always reprint in good quality.


Offline onepower

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2022, 05:14:14 AM »
floodrod
This is the kind of fast prototyping 3D printers excel at and I use my Prusa clone for this kind of stuff all the time. I haven't looked at the Kundel motor to deeply but built/tested the solid state version found in the forums.

Have you looked at the John Ecklin patent US3879622A?. I think this may be doable and may relate to the Wesley Gary effect as the setup looks similar.

Good luck with you research
AC

Offline synchro1

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2022, 01:37:41 PM »
Your design is very innovative and unique. Kundel's patents should not hamper the production of your new design it is so divergent. Eliminating the outrigger torsion guide rods and springs adds a huge advantage. Your project is a great idea. Nice find on the magnets. A piezo actuator can be run by Arduino to replace the voice coil. This helps solve the spline problem.

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2022, 02:31:45 PM »
Onepower-  please post a link to this "solid state device" you speak of.  I would like to have a peek..  And thanks for the other patent number.  I do want to venture into the magnetic shielding concepts sooner or later.  And yes, the 3d printer makes so much easier and accurate. And of course less expensive.

Snycro-  thanks dude.  The new design seems to reciprocate much easier than the former.  The main advantage as I see, it allows me to try several different reciprocation drivers.  I can't resist the urge to rotate magnets past the reciprocator arm magnets to see if it will self-run. I know it's a pipe dream, but if the Kundel action has even a slight gain, and the sliding magnets has any sort of gain as research here suggests, working both these actions against each other seems like something I have to try :)

Offline synchro1

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2022, 03:34:51 PM »
Onepower-  please post a link to this "solid state device" you speak of.  I would like to have a peek..  And thanks for the other patent number.  I do want to venture into the magnetic shielding concepts sooner or later.  And yes, the 3d printer makes so much easier and accurate. And of course less expensive.

Snycro-  thanks dude.  The new design seems to reciprocate much easier than the former.  The main advantage as I see, it allows me to try several different reciprocation drivers.  I can't resist the urge to rotate magnets past the reciprocator arm magnets to see if it will self-run. I know it's a pipe dream, but if the Kundel action has even a slight gain, and the sliding magnets has any sort of gain as research here suggests, working both these actions against each other seems like something I have to try :)


All the measurements tell us it should run itself by it's own power! I believe that you have a "State of the Art" advantage unavailable to other imaginative inventors. I think there is a real chance that you can make it work!

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2022, 05:06:15 PM »

All the measurements tell us it should run itself by it's own power! I believe that you have a "State of the Art" advantage unavailable to other imaginative inventors. I think there is a real chance that you can make it work!

I am re-printing the parts.  The diametric reciprocator ring magnets were too close together to squeeze the axle arc discs with nuts in and have any room for a throw.  And it gives me a chance to print this with decent quality.  Last thing I want to do is glue expensive magnets into a crappy print.

Regarding the "State of the art" technology-  the Ender 3 3d printer goes for $189 on amazon..  (which is equivalent to my off-brand model). A few hours learning Tinkercad and Cura  (both free), anyone can be up and going in a day or two, and probably cheaper than what they spend on fabricating / sourcing strange parts.  With this hobby, I can't see doing it without a 3d printer.

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2022, 01:38:30 AM »
First test attempted today..  It want's to go, but not quite. See in action here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3NRSMy0jk

I think the inner propellers are too weak.  It improved once I added more magnets to them..  The new half circle magnets seem too small and don't create enough torque.

Next step is to design better inner propellers that create more torque.


Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2022, 12:51:05 PM »
I spent a few hours looking back on my previous working kundel models and reviewed my notes, which is leading me to another part which needs modification.

The best results came with a latching hall sensor, or when a non latching hall sensor was triggered with magnets a full 180 degrees around. 
Same thing with the electromagnet build.  It works awesomely when each pulse is held for 180 degrees of the rotation, but starts to lose massive efficiency when I started shortening the pulses. 

Basically, giving the reciprocator a short quick push was not enough. Each throw needed to hold that position until 1/2 rotation (or close to) was complete to obtain the best results.

Comparing that info to this design- I see my sliding propeller is only activating the throw somewhere under 1/3 of the half revolution throw required. (between 45-55 degrees out of 180) , thus releasing pressure on the inner propellers before they complete their 180 degree flip.

I am not saying this design will work, but this needs to be addressed next.

Offline onepower

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2022, 05:56:31 PM »
floodrod
Quote
The best results came with a latching hall sensor, or when a non latching hall sensor was triggered with magnets a full 180 degrees around.
Same thing with the electromagnet build.  It works awesomely when each pulse is held for 180 degrees of the rotation, but starts to lose massive efficiency when I started shortening the pulses.

Basically, giving the reciprocator a short quick push was not enough. Each throw needed to hold that position until 1/2 rotation (or close to) was complete to obtain the best results.

You could build a latching solenoid, basically an iron cored solenoid coil in between two permanent magnets. Depending on the input polarity to the solenoid it will repel from one PM and latch onto the other PM. No power is required to hold the solenoid in place only to move it between the permanent magnets.

Regards
AC

Offline synchro1

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2022, 07:58:00 PM »
Study the position of JLN's diametricly polarized Orbo torus coil. A second inverted NS magnet rotor would act as a Kundel gear if axled. The "Orbdel"?

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2022, 09:59:00 PM »
Awesome- keep throwing those ideas..

The original model I been posting has so little torque in the Kundel propellers..  Not enough torque to slide the reciprocator magnets continually..
You can see a video of some more tests with full 180 magnetics here-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI4wsEgKQdU

If I want this to get anywhere- I have to supply the shaft bone-crushing torque, so I am going as big as I can..  Last time I used propellers designed in this fashion (with the Big magnets) I was able to turn a big generator.

I want to keep the design fluid so I can adapt and test both self propelled and outside powered strategies.


Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2022, 01:16:19 AM »
I got it running in a new way- but needs modification and I think I have an excellent method.. 

Currently a nice size iron core transformer is being used as an electromagnet.  And on the reciprocation carriage I mounted  a 40mm x 20mm N52, same as the propellers.  the idea was to switch polarities on the electromagnet every 1/2 rotation to reciprocate the carriage.   I didn't realize  The big NEO just wants to suck on the electromagnet when it's not powered.. So in this configuration, I only need to power the electromagnet 1/2 the time to repel the big neo for the last 1/2 turn since the attraction is being done by the core and magnet with no power.     Tested the concept and YES it works..

Problem is the attraction from the reciprocator carriage trigger magnet and the electromagnet core is so  great when the electromagnet is off, combined with the attraction of the propellers attracting to the center reciprocator magnet, I need to max out my power supply to have enough repulsion.  Since the attraction is far greater than the repulsion, it's causing a rough-ride..

So here's my plan...   If I put the exact same setup on the other side, I would get extreme attraction in both directions evenly with no power input.  . And all I should need to do is  pulse one electromagnet to repel at the right time to release the attraction on 1 side and let the opposite side take over by pulling the reciprocator carriage.. 

I think this method would allow me to use much less input power and for a shorter duration of time, while taking advantage of the extreme attraction that occurs on both strokes with no power input.

Offline floodrod

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Re: My Kundel motor replication with ardiuno
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2022, 12:45:11 AM »
OK as I said in the past- I will see this project through...

That last colorful model has some design flaws.  The linear bearing stands were too weak (1 cracked), the outer arm holding the big Neo was too weak in 1 direction, and I the axle bearing stands will certainly not hold up to the abuse I need to put on them.  So I am going as big and beefy as my printer will allow.

Almost all parts bolt together for easy modification and tweaking, and for accurate aligning. This will have torque due to the size / strength of the magnets used, and is designed so it can be powered several different ways..

Stay Tuned for updates!