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Author Topic: Build 2  (Read 33484 times)

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2022, 03:32:57 PM »
 I may need to slow up a little on making my work known. I need to protect my work and if anyone has seen the movie Twister, there's an unrealized
idea and an idea that is realized. And my goal since November has been March or April for a working build. I do think that is possible. We're still in the
first week of February so I still have close to 3 months.

p.s., this is a lot of work for one person to do by themselves without a wood shop to work in which could be something like a garage at home.
At the end of the day it is a machine so the mechanics need to be properly configured while having a frame that can withstand the loads placed
on it.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2022, 03:47:56 AM »
 I'll probably post a video in the next couple of days. I should be able to work more quickly. Something changed.
 Unfortunately AB Hammer ruined it as a way to interact socially with people. He wanted to show how his faith in Jesus
would allow him to steal someone's work.  Yet I can say I owe him all credit for teaching me because my going it alone
is his "Tough Love" way of teaching me how to build his wheel for him. And Christians will support him.
 Fortunately I'll be able to do other things which I might be allowed to enjoy doing.

 In the link, a basic discussion of science and I mention an experiment that I am pursuing in atmospheric chemistry and physics.

 The experiment would show that CO2 is necessary for the ozone layer to recover which the IPCC mentioned in its 2013 report but doesn't
understand how. I'd be explaining it to them.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2022, 07:08:53 PM »
 With the next video, like anything else, I'll need to see how many takes it will take for me to be happy with the video.
This is because I'll be using about 5 different videos to make 1 video. With that said, this shows where basic calculus
would've helped to consider the relationship between over and under balance.
 With using (x, y) coordinates, 0º would be the y axis while 90º would be the x axis. And with 4 quadrants, the x in f(x) =
would have 4 different values. And as in the image, an equation would follow that could be factored. And that would allow
for algebra to reduce everything to a single equation which would allow for net torque to be calculated.
 A simpler method is just using (r1 + r2/2)sin45 = x in each of the 4 quadrants. sin60 might allow for a more accurate value
but would be a starting point to find out if rotation agrees with the math. With r1 - r2, how far is the weight from the axle
before and after 90º of rotation?
 And the 2nd image is a spreadsheet that I used to find the average torque. There is a lot that comes with working on
something like this and I have put in the work. Where it says radius/m that is 1 meter. I have other spreadsheets and this was
an early version. And if anyone besides me builds a wheel like what I am building,  I would suggest becoming familiar with writing
spreadsheets and being able to use a 3D design program like SketchUp. A spreadsheet might show what in a design needs to be
changed to enhance performance of the wheel. I think it would save a lot of trial and error.

p.s., and I know the 90 should actually be at the top right of the function symbol.

p.s.s., tomorrow I'll edit the video so should be posting it.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 11:04:55 PM by Johnsmith »

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2022, 03:37:33 PM »
 I have made some videos and have decided to connect the top and bottom weight wheels similar to what Bessler showed in his drawings.
This video has no audio. The first part shows 2 weights being lifted together. If connecting the top and bottom weights does not interfere with
the rotation of the wheel, then the 2nd part of the video shows what happens after 22.5º.

Offline i/o

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2022, 12:09:38 AM »
I tried to view it but it is marked private.  Is there a password?

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2022, 02:29:40 AM »
I tried to view it but it is marked private.  Is there a password?

  Thanks for letting me know. I changed the setting to unlisted. With the private setting it is limited to 25 views.
Next week I will be working on making a "rim" for the wheel so it will be a wheel. And then when I show the top
and bottom weights connected, hopefully people will have an idea of why I've been pursuing it.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2022, 03:55:24 PM »
 I am in the process of connecting the top and bottom weight wheels. If that test works well then
I will make the ring/rim for it and see if weight wheels can work. In Bessler's time, I think he made
his own bearings. From his description he made a variation of amalgam or silver filling which
dentists use today.
 And for what I did in the video, I checked other imbalances. And because I am handicapped, I will
need to take it easy on myself. Being too active can make my situation a lot worse. Still, since I am
building then people shouldn't have an issue with my being handicapped.

 Hopefully everyone will understand how everything fits together, The flat board represents the side
of the arm. And with the end of the arm shown, the guides for the weight wheel need to be trimmed
so the pulley mount will act like an end cap as well.
 With what is on the left, when it is flipped over, that is how it fill fit over the end of the arm.

p.s., most likely it will be after the 20th when I can post a video showing if this can work. It does take time
for me to do everything.


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Re: Build 2
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2022, 07:38:49 PM »
@ johnsmith

Thank you and very cool !

        best wishes
                    good success

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #98 on: February 14, 2022, 02:17:30 AM »
@ johnsmith

Thank you and very cool !

        best wishes
                    good success

    I know you're being sarcastic. The image is from an internationally recognized leader in perpetual motion. I saved
that thread because he and other respected forum members at were discussing how if people
understood engineering like them, they wouldn't try.
And if I am successful I have to say that he as an American and a Christian taught me. It's called "Tough Love".
 And as a disabled Veteran why Christians discipline me by not allowing me to have a family in the U.S.
 Proverbs 13:24; Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
 Thing is, between AB Hammer and Christians, I'm not their son. It's not up to them to discipline me. Besides, I feel good
about what I'm doing. While it takes both time and money to build, the next test or 2 will determine if I did discover
Bessler's wheel or not. And the thing is, the principle is actually in a child's game yet grownups don't understand it. I tried
explaining this game and the physics in it but no one got it. Kind of why I like what I'm doing.  :o

and at, those green dots are earned. Yet neither of those have built anything. Notice saying "give it to us"
makes someone credible. So if I am successful, people will wonder why credible forum leaders say Bessler was a fraud and
perpetual motion is impossible.

 And for you Floor, I'll give you a clue to a variation of that child's game with a child's toy, last picture.  8)

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #99 on: February 14, 2022, 04:35:47 AM »
 And now I'm just being a jerk. Okay, Tarsier79 said to give him the secret. This isn't it. It is
a part of Wagner's Roaster. Wagner might've been the person who got Bessler arrested by
calling him a fraud.
 The math behind it is based on Moment of Inertia. There is a lot to it but in the first image you can see
where Bessler drew the line wrapped around something the same way as the boy in the video wrapped
the line around his spinning top.
 And with the children's game, there is tether ball. You only need to watch the first 10 seconds because the 3rd grader beat the 5th grader's a$$.
 This is an example of centripetal force while a spinning top has centrifugal force. With centripetal force, it is f = mv^2/r
or force = mass times velocity squared divided by the radius. With the game of tether ball, what work was done to get the ball to hit the pole?
 If you answered no work then you are correct. When the ball moves into the pole linear from a distance away from the pole, no work is being
done. Now if you said the work done was mass times distance as the ball rotates around the pole, then you are once again right. The pole is
merely shortening the line by creating an obstruction which does not resist the motion of the ball.
 And yet grown adults don't understand why a squared circle matters. An arc segment is 1.57 times longer than a straight line. Yet as with tether
ball, we know something can move around a circle without it creating resistance to motion. Also, with using 1/4 of a circle, when the wheel rotates
1/4 of a circle, that is a 1:1 ratio that allows for the line to always be at a 90º angle from the pulley closest to the disc and the axle. This prevents
resistance of motion. And why Tarsier79, AB Hammer and company can not understand how simple this, I guess they never played tether ball as a kid.
 And with the game of tether ball, the 3rd grader knew that if she hits it up, it will rotate back down to her. Gravity and inertia had it circle back because
if she hit it harder or softer, the taller 5th grader would get it. She had control. She knew its velocity mattered.

p.s., kind of why I like my chances of success. The disc on my build is basically the same thing as the pole in tether ball. And building with a significant
disability is not an easy thing to do. That and building can be expensive. Let's face it, this isn't a social type interest. When scientists say that perpetual
motion is impossible, they'll say they meant can a rock move itself. Yet when they talk about something rotating on an axis, they call that perpetual
motion as well. But what causes a weight to drop or fall? Where a working machine will have scientists say "Of course you can conserve energy!".
 At the moment, scientist say that gravity is a force while it has no energy. ergo, conservation of gravitational force is not possible because gravity has
no energy. What the scientific argument is actually based on if you can believe that. The laws of thermodynamics allows for heat energy to be conserved,
to pursue an equilibrium, etc. So technically a working machine will be conserving the heat content of the Earth's gravitational field as momentum in a
foreign object orbiting the Earth. You know, kind of like the Moon which has slowed the Earth's spin.
 And when the laws of thermodynamics are cited, then it is about heat content and if momentum can be changed because of a flow of heat. You know, a
molecule like CO2, H2o vapor or nitrogen dioxide is KE = 3/2kT because the R value among other things relates to momentum, the number of molecules
in a mol, etc. Basically excited gasses expand because the elements in that molecule has more KE which is 1/2mv^2. This is all pretty basic.
And then scientists will say that when it's cold, atmospheric gasses will expand which is why there's a low pressure system.
 And yet when they say that gravity can't be conserved as mechanical energy you guys believe them?
 Maybe ya'all should go play a nice game of tether ball and say the pole pulled the ball into it even the pole is an inanimate object?

 See? I told yu'uns I was being a jerk. Then again I think disabled Veterans in the U.S. will like me and maybe even people who have disabilities which
includes a significant hearing loss or being deaf.

p.s., I'm going to need to load a new OS on my computer. Or at least try. A diagnostic test said everything is okay.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 08:31:00 AM by Johnsmith »

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2022, 03:27:37 PM »
 I think what I need to do is focus on my build and finish a design for my underwater wheel. I need surgery. And
over the years, things could've gone better if people understood why scientists said that perpetual motion is impossible.
Then they would've known that the Moon is an example of the Earth's gravity being conserved.
 Mechanical engineering manipulates the laws of physics. This is where a lot of people will not take the time to learn
basic principles. And a submarine submerging or surface happens because? A tether ball hits its pole because?
 Basically what is work? How can it be quantified when its formula is w = md or work equals mass times distance.
Then when that is considered with either the submarine or a tether ball, you'd notice that the answer you get isn't the
same as moving a weight on the ground. Even then, having wheels under something allows more work to be performed
while using less energy. That's engineering. And with the example used for the "keel effect", the underwater wheel will
prove that wrong by using only 4 weights. and with that, the weight furthest from the axle will change the balance so
rotation can continue and not stop as many self proclaimed experts have said. I think when that becomes known, people
will wonder why such people became authorities on a subject when they're wrong. And it's simply because scientists said
that a rock can't move itself. When scientists say thermodynamics does not allow for perpetual motion, they can say that a rock is one example. Or they could say that an Atmos clock demonstrates why it is impossible.
That's because it relies on an outside source of energy to lift it's weight.
 There are actually 2 different definitions that are used. A working machine will have scientists say that the Atmos clock is the example they meant when they were actually talking about the rock example.

p.s., self winding is a "perpetual" attribute like a weight shifting on its own in a machine. This is what happens
in the Atmos clock. A weight shifts without someone moving it. Still, this doesn't leave much to discuss
because experts prevented discussions about what engineering allows for. And Bessler wanted to start an engineering school. If he revealed his secret, he could've started his school. I think with his being arrested changed everything for him.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #101 on: February 17, 2022, 02:16:06 AM »
 I thought I'd post a build update. I did say the week of the 20th I hoped to have a video showing the next test.
I will be using 8 pulleys and 12 bushings to connect the top and bottom weights like what is shown in MT 134.
If it works then a wheel using 4 weight wheels can work.
 What this test will show is if it takes work to lift the top weight wheel. We do have bearings today while it seems
that Bessler invented his. And with 4 working weight wheels that I have, I can test for 8 weights as well. That will
be next if this test doesn't work. Kind of why 1 step at a time is necessary. It can be boring and if all works out
okay, I'll make known some information that people aren't aware of. And this might go back to what was the science
of the day when Bessler was a kid. Things were different then and what people got excited over was alchemy and
Newton along with Leibniz. Basically speaking, gravity and the conservation of energy were just discovered.
 In 1686, there wasn't a theory of gravity. En Principia was published in 1687 when Bessler was 7 years old and
perpetual motion wasn't impossible.
 And from my perspective, if one weight moves towards the axle while another moves away works, Bessler wrote
about that as well. And it does need to work as well.
 What will be telling from testing I have done is when the wheel is rotated 22.5° from center. Basically 1:30 and 7:30.
If it rotates that far then it should rotate past 90°. With this, it is odd to try and to explain to adults about line segments.
There's line A --- B which is less than line segment B --- C while the whole line A --- D is longer. A --- D might be the
length of the line but the shorter segments are a part of the the line segment A --- D.
 Then you get into if it's congruent, parallel or some other relationship that can be defined. So being familiar with math
does help. It helps to understand Bessler's Paradox where the drum lifts the weight while the drum isn't rotating but
the wheel is. And in math, the inverse is always true. When the wheel rotates, it is merely the inverse function of a
drum rotating.

p.s., when things are broken down into line segments, things make since up to a point. Then you have to say the inverse
is true as well. A wheel rotating is the inverse function of a drum rotating. Same result but just an inverse function.
 This simply means that the wheel itself is lifting the weight and not the drum. I think nerds who like math will have fun
with this. An inverse function performing work while it isn't. Kind of why it's called free energy.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 05:11:03 AM by Johnsmith »

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #102 on: February 19, 2022, 06:55:46 PM »
 After the glue does some drying I'll mount the end caps on. Then I can drill holes for
the pulley mounts. I'll be using 12 pulleys. This next test will determine if using only
4 weights can work. If not then the 2 weights not shown will be mounted 45°
counterclockwise of what's on there now. That would be to determine if using 8 weights
will work.
 I have my own design that I'll be continuing design work on. And that's one I will be
paying someone else to build.

p.s., I'll be using 2 pulleys on top like what is shown in Bessler's drawing. In his drawing
the bar will be the weight wheel. And I am hoping that a 4 weight configuration will work.
Since the line isn't doing any work there shouldn't be much energy lost because the top
weight is being lifted. And tests I did showed that after 22.5° of rotation it rotates. In this
video, the top weight is in a fixed position that when lifted would be at an angle of the 22.5°
I mentioned. And this is what will help me to know if lifting
the top weight is costing a lot of energy. At 45° it goes even better.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #103 on: February 19, 2022, 11:45:38 PM »
 This is it with all of the pulleys on it necessary for the test. I have to add 4 fasteners to each
weight wheel for a place to secure the connecting lines. If you look just above the axle you'll
see a pulley. The one below the axle is hidden by the disc. And with 2 pulleys on each end this
agrees with Mt 134. Tomorrow I'll probably test it.
 I'll be using imitation sinew to connect the 2 opposing pulleys. Then I'll just need to attach the
retraction lines to one weight wheel and then test it. Unfortunately no one has made an app
for this yet.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2022, 03:14:45 AM »
 I checked it out some and it comes up short. It requires about .3 to .4 kg to rotate it.
That's an extra 10 to 14 oz. This allows for the question of decreasing the size of the retraction
discs or reducing how much the top weight is lifted. 2 ways in which the amount of energy
needed to rotate the wheel.
 I do have my own design which I'll continue design work on Monday. To continue work on Bessler's
wheel will require me to be healthy. With Bessler, my being successful with my own invention will
only help to gather more interest in his work.
 It is possible that a smaller retraction disc will allow for more acceleration. A larger disc allowed
for nothing, just no movement. With a 1:1 ratio, it rotated. This is where a smaller retraction disc
might allow for more movement. This is one issue with trying to engineer someone else's work
relying on cryptic clues.

p.s., to increase the torque generated as far as efficiency goes, having the weight wheels roll into
the axle requires less torque to rotate the wheel. Bessler did use springs. With something like that,
springs would be helpful. When weights rotate around the axle at a distance, f = ma is increased.
Next to the axle, energy saved. My build is not set up to test this.
 And with Occam's Razor reducing the force necessary
to rotate the wheel will most likely work. An easy test of this is using only 2 weights. Then when
compared to using 4 weights with the extra 2 at a distance, then math will show what is what.

p.s.s., And with the previous build I did, there is something suggested. It would take modifying this recent
build as well as trying a variation of my earlier build. And with that said, f does = ma which matters when
something is rotating. And this is why I'll need to build my own design next. That will give me the
opportunity to try 2 variations of what I've built. And in support of what I've said, I'll make a video that
explains my reasoning and how Occam's Razor can allow for more than 1 possible solution.
 And as witnesses said, they heard 8 knocking sounds per revolution. There is a solution that allows for
that and it's not what people would think. This would probably require a new frame for the wheel but that
might be doable.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2022, 07:13:47 AM by Johnsmith »