Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Google Search

Custom Search

Author Topic: Build 2  (Read 20785 times)

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2022, 01:14:10 AM »
 This link shows how torque is generated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-3MqrU8bTg
  This link is to a test with 4 weight wheels and 8 total weights on the wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdhPM-hMdQ

 And today when moving everything around, I accidentally knocked my computer over.
For it to break that easily kind of shows that it was old. Since it has an SSDI hard drive,
I'm hoping that is okay. I'm now using an old All In One. I guess next will be a new tower.
 As for building, I'm going to put that on hold for a while. There are a couple of reasons for this.
I'll need to modify my current build to try roller bearings. The bearings I am using are spherical
bearings. Might make a difference. Also, I can add more weight onto the weight wheels and
other locations to see if it's ability to rotate faster happens.
 And with what I've shown, the bearings might need more lubricant. Basically it is where fine
tuning it will be the best use of my time. And since I need to develop a catch and release
mechanism that will release the line retracting the weight that's to the left of the axle, I've
already started on a couple of designs.
 At the same time, for the work that I've put into it, I deserve a break from it. Then I'll realize
that there's not much left to do as far as what steps I need to take. That helps to simplify things.

p.s., you guys ever think that someone might show something that could actually work? And if
my build works, then when people say it isn't possible, it has been since Bessler's time.

 @thx4, you and Robinhood46 can consider this work. I've done a lot of math over they years and now write
my own spreadsheets. I am an asshole that way. Math can point the way and now that it has for me, I'll
just do some trial and error (more research and development) to see what happens.
 I did see your post and Robinhood can consider the work that I'm showing. As for me, I do like my most recent efforts.
I just need to recover from having done it for now. It is different.

p.s.s., Bessler did say 60 rpm. Have any of you seen a motion like this before? It was said that some of his wheels needed a push.
This could be one such wheel. This is what pursuing an idea requires. And understanding of each step. This is how goals are realized.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 04:05:40 AM by Johnsmith »

Offline kolbacict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Build 2
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2022, 09:07:25 AM »
Quote
In a way the King in the video is like a group of people who controlled this forum and besslerwheel.com.
:D
Well.And it came to my mind that the boy
put the king in such conditions that he would say this, or say differently, a hopeless situation.
Unstable position. No balance. No way to catch the balance.  Like the Bessler wheel, in order
for it to turn, it does not have to find a point of equilibrium. This movie was not just offtopic.
Why does it work with information but not in the physical world ?  ;)

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2022, 11:47:34 AM »
:D
Well.And it came to my mind that the boy
put the king in such conditions that he would say this, or say differently, a hopeless situation.
Unstable position. No balance. No way to catch the balance.  Like the Bessler wheel, in order
for it to turn, it does not have to find a point of equilibrium. This movie was not just offtopic.
Why does it work with information but not in the physical world ?  ;)

 It is premature to say it can't work when the 2nd video showed it might. Bessler had one wheel which
needed a push to get it rotating. This is where being familiar with what Bessler wrote or what witnesses
described is helpful to remember.
 What people need to consider when watching both videos is f = ma. Newton published his book
En Principia when Bessler was 7 years old. It is possible that Bessler was familiar with it because Bessler
was aware of Gottfried Leibniz. Liebniz and Newton co-invented calculus. So Bessler was probably aware
of both the math and science of his day.
 This is where when I am ready I can go to my local library and use their computer to find out the frame
rate at which each video turned. Then I'll know if f = ma describes the motion of both tests. That would
be the next logical step.

 

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2022, 04:40:46 PM »
:D
Well.And it came to my mind that the boy
put the king in such conditions that he would say this, or say differently, a hopeless situation.
Unstable position. No balance. No way to catch the balance.  Like the Bessler wheel, in order
for it to turn, it does not have to find a point of equilibrium. This movie was not just offtopic.
Why does it work with information but not in the physical world ?  ;)


  Your children's story is off topic. It explained why the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 was considered as being necessary.
And as I said, it might work as it is if I finish the build. Watch it at the 1:30 time, with a little moment before the level of
the axle the wheel is stopped by the retraction line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdhPM-hMdQ

  I will consider that you do not understand how to develop an idea. With using 2 weight wheels to see how much torque
is generated, I can compare that f = ma with 8 weights. The f would be the torque generated by an overbalanced weight
wheel. Then does mass x acceleration of the 6 other weight wheels agrees with what 2 weight wheels caused?
 If so then I can add more weight to 2 weight wheels and then do another acceleration/torque test. If that accelerates
faster, then when adding 6 more weights, how fast would the same relationship allow for? It is possible that because the
weight of the weight wheels would all have the same ratio, there might be no increase in how quickly the wheel rotates.
 Since I am using spherical bearings, will roller bearings have less resistance? And that is what I should find out next. As
you can tell, a spherical bearing has a lot of surface area. That might create more resistance than a roller bearing would.
 

Offline kolbacict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Build 2
« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2022, 05:19:04 PM »
Quote
Your children's story is off topic. It explained why the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 was necessary.The government then could share the wealth of the country with the people. These guys probably don't know that it was about justifying communism.
I agree. There is such a moment.  But I would not focus on this. I meant something else.
Mind games, resourcefulness and logic. And i have saw in this some indirect connection
with Bessler's self-running wheel. :)
Quote
I think you should understand the principles that I am using but you know nothing of them.
You're right. I don't understand how this can work.
But I understand that I have to do something. This or other.
I still think that the electrical part should be added to this circuit.
As a carrier of energy from one part of the device to another. Bypassing gravity...

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2022, 08:18:33 PM »
I agree. There is such a moment.  But I would not focus on this. I meant something else.
Mind games, resourcefulness and logic. And i have saw in this some indirect connection
with Bessler's self-running wheel. :)You're right. I don't understand how this can work.
But I understand that I have to do something. This or other.
I still think that the electrical part should be added to this circuit.
As a carrier of energy from one part of the device to another. Bypassing gravity...


  If you need something to do, maybe you could think about why the weight wheel moves closer
to the axle of the wheel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-3MqrU8bTg
 And it is accelerating when it is doing so. This shows that it is not using energy to move towards
the axle. It is the interaction between those 2 weight wheels that cause the wheel to rotate.
 I'll be starting work on the design for my fail safe. I'll most likely have someone else build it. It will
be easy enough to work. Then I can have my surgery. Then I will be in a better situation for working
on what I showed you. Between now and when that happens, I might do some more work on it. One
of the reasons for the videos was to show my subscribers on YouTube what it is that I've been
working at so they'd better understand it.
 With my personal situation, I am handicapped/disabled for a reason. And this can help me to change
that and have a life.

p.s., with Bessler's clues, there are 2 that would suggest I can do 2 different things with this build. But
doing both things on the same wheel wouldn't help a wheel to work better. And this creates more that
needs to be done. And with the simple idea that I have, it would ensure success.
 With the 2 clues, one is using springs and latches. Gravity would compress the spring and then when the weight wheel
would need to roll out, release the latch and then the spring will push it outward. That would be a lot of work.
 The 2nd clue is also a lot of work but if it works as what I've done works, then a 60 rpm wheel would be possible. This
creates a problem of sorts. A slow rotating wheel wouldn't be that interesting but would be a part of Bessler's work.
 I can start working on the faster wheel while I'm pursuing my "sure thing". And this means that I'll be busy designing for
a while. After all, I can't ask wood workers for bids if I don't have a design for them to consider. And with my current
wheel, can its frame be adapted? I think so but that will be even more work. I've been aware of this for a long time.
And this could easily take until April or longer. And this is where I need to slow down. Things will go better that way.
 And thx4, if you want, I'll be able to show some more design work on the pendulum if you and Robinhood like.
 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 04:49:19 AM by Johnsmith »

Offline kolbacict

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
Re: Build 2
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2022, 06:41:30 AM »
This cartoon was made in the Soviet Union, when it was impossible otherwise.
You don't have to pay attention to it.  I just wanted to say that if we were as
resourceful as that boy, we would have had a perpetual motion machine by now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3XfSe_LAFA :)

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2022, 05:55:24 PM »
This cartoon was made in the Soviet Union, when it was impossible otherwise.
You don't have to pay attention to it.  I just wanted to say that if we were as
resourceful as that boy, we would have had a perpetual motion machine by now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3XfSe_LAFA :)


  That is what has been so frustrating about this forum and besslerwheel.com, they have aggressive people in
the other forum. This forum used to be as bad. People who were willing to try were openly ridiculed. And what
some said was that as private builders, they can tell you how to work. Then if someone who did work and was
successful, the private builder would get credit for teaching how to build for them.
 That is not working together. If people work together then credit should be shared. An example would be like the
2 oscillation pendulum, if thx4 and Robinhood like my design, build it and it works, then we would need to
share credit. In the U.S., that would be considered as socialism which is considered like communism. It is not
capitalism. 
With what I am working on, I have realized what it is that I need to know. I will need to make the frame into an
actual wheel. Then with the 4 weight wheels that I have, if what I know is correct (if = если или можть быть)
when it might need a push to work.  Когда Я вишаль Береа, Кентукий, УСА Я начинаю Русский яазыке. I
wasn't from Berea like my mother so to socialize with people I learned some Russian and then back to
perpetual motion.
 I think with different descriptions of Bessler's wheel that different wheels are being described. And while I
could pursue all of his clues, those can come after demonstrating a working wheel. And this would be using
the 4 weight wheels that I have. Then if that works, I'll be able to pursue a show that I want to do in Utrecht,
Netherlands because they have this book I've posted a link to before;
https://www.uu.nl/en/utrecht-university-library-special-collections/collections/early-printed-books/scientific-works/das-triumphirende-perpetuum-mobile-orffyreanum-by-johann-bessler
 In a couple of weeks I'll be able to demonstrate what could allow for a 4 weighted wheel to work. I would only
be demonstrating the mechanics because I'd be using this wheel to demonstrate the mechanics. Then everyone would know what
I am building; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_aUN2hWyMs
 

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Build 2
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2022, 09:56:00 AM »
Do you intend to build a self running device ?

What is the basic principle ?

Why might it produce energy ?

I wont criticize you if you say that you don't know.

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2022, 03:56:47 PM »
Do you intend to build a self running device ?

What is the basic principle ?

Why might it produce energy ?

I wont criticize you if you say that you don't know.


  In the most simplistic, basic terms that I can think of;

 The retraction disc creates what is known as "ersazt" gravity. Ersatz means not genuine. And then like the Moon
orbiting the Earth at night, it moves closer to the Earth. This shows the Sun's gravitational effect on it. And like Bessler's
wheel, when a weight is orbiting both the retraction disc (what Bessler called a drum) and then the wheel, it is drawn
closer to the 2 bodies it is orbiting around.
 And when the Moon is between the Sun and the Moon, it is further from the Earth. And with Bessler's wheel, when a weight
is orbiting the retraction disc (what Bessler called a drum) it is closer to the center of its orbit.
 I'm not sure why you don't understand so basic as to why the Moon and the Earth have their unique wobbly orbit around the
Sun when F = G(M1M2/r^2) explains it in simple to understand terms.
 Basically if someone has taken the time to learn algebra, trigonometry and geometry as well as maybe rebuilding an engine
and working a lot with mechanics, they might understand that the weight wheel does not resist the motion of its arm. This
is because as the wheel rotates the retraction lines maintain a 90° relationship to the retraction disc and the axle of the
wheel. What Bessler did was shift the pendulum so it would swing from the axle of the wheel. To someone like you it is
known as magic. And basically, I've done the math.

p.s., your sarcasm is duly noted as you've spent no time learning anything about this. And it kind of shows
that you're not familiar with math, mechanics or science. The question is Can you keep up? And I know you can't.
Your word games show what you know.

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Build 2
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2022, 06:39:00 PM »
In modern terms this "ersazt" is what we call a pseudo force. 

When you understand that while centrifugal force appears to be an outward force on
a mass when it is rotated, but that it is in reality, simply the inertia of a mass acting in
accordance with its tenancy to remain in motion in a straight line, you'll have a start.

Go ahead and study up on your basic physics a little more. You'll get it eventually ?

I studied Trig, only in recent years and I don't much care for it, although
it is really good for / facilitates rapid calculations / is a good short cut. 
                     Unfortunately...
It tends to obscure what is otherwise a basis for understanding ratios,
proportion and other things. Things which ( I believe) only a deep immersion in and
contemplation of,  geometry and algebra can adequately give.

It seem that you have learned a few of the these things by rote. Unfortunately
this tends to make even a mediocre mind seem more capable than it really is.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
"I am working towards realizing perpetual motion and proving that Bessler was successful"

That is one of the questions answered / one down.

I am glad you are building, experimenting and learning. Me to.
Keep at it, maybe your success is just around the corner.

P.S.

If you don't enjoy being talked down to (my point being), then I suggest that you
do less of it your self.

  best wishes
         floor

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Build 2
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2022, 08:08:33 PM »
' ' ' '

Offline Johnsmith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
Re: Build 2
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2022, 09:11:23 PM »

 When you understand that while centrifugal force appears to be an outward force on
a mass when it is rotated, but that it is in reality, simply the inertia of a mass acting in
accordance with its tenancy to remain in motion in a straight line, you'll have a start.



  best wishes
         floor


  You didn't understand the mechanics. Centrifugal force has nothing to do with this project.
To be petty, it is centripetal force that you're talking about. Centrifugal force is a rotating impeller pumping water or fuel oil.
Centrifugal force is also used to purify oil in something like a De Laval oil purifier. That force creates
centripetal force in both oil molecules and particles which are impurities. Haven't you ever worked
with such equipment before?
 Basically centrifugal force is something spinning or rotating. When that force accelerates
something in a circular motion then that something has centripetal force. When gravity accelerates a pendulum or
a person hitting a tether ball accelerates it then there is no centrifugal force.
 Feel better?

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Build 2
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2022, 10:21:29 PM »
"Centrifugal force is the apparent force, equal and opposite to centripetal force".

They much like unto Newton's action and reaction co-define one another.

I am more certain now than even before. You have no understanding of what
you are talking about.  Half of what you say has no meaning.  Not only this
but you reveal a decide lack of integrity on your part. It's no wonder
(as you have previously stated) that you are disliked and end up in petty quarrels
on these forums.  It is    you      that does not understand the mechanics.

You should keep to your word and stop positng in your topic, as you previously
stated that you would.  At least until such time as you have learned how to
communicate.

Offline onepower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 849
Re: Build 2
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2022, 11:22:19 PM »
Floor
Quote
"Centrifugal force is the apparent force, equal and opposite to centripetal force".
They much like unto Newton's action and reaction co-define one another.
I am more certain now than even before. You have no understanding of what
you are talking about.  Half of what you say has no meaning.

It's debatable...
In fact almost every Nobel prize winner and successful inventor was told
1)there crazy
2)they didn't understand what they were talking about
3)they would never amount to anything

However it was the average person who proclaimed to know everything but never succeeded at anything remarkable who were obviously mistaken. Hence the term "average", the usual or ordinary kind or quality.

I find it a little strange how so many today seem to revel in there own mediocrity as if it were a virtue. How can blindly following along like a sheep and mimicking what everyone else does be a virtue?. I suppose it's well enough if we never want to accomplish anything remarkable however the moment we did then obviously we wouldn't be average or normal. 

So in a sense when a person implies we should be just like them or normal what there really saying is they want us to fail just like them to make themselves feel better. I mean if anyone here was actually normal then they wouldn't be here... so were in good company.

Regards
AC