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Author Topic: Build 2  (Read 3706 times)

Offline Johnsmith

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Build 2
« on: December 23, 2021, 02:33:09 AM »
 Stefan, if my work on Bessler is successful I will never visit Germany.
 The 4 weight wheel version. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZcu-8J0Lqk
No one knows how to recognize a scam. And yet I was vilified for actually working and discussing things with people.
Goggle saved the "My Invention" thread in its entirety. https://overunity.com/12597/my-invention/165/wap/
 What people might wonder is why you supported people attacking someone that has series physical health issues.

 What's funny is that I've been hoping to do something with The Gäs https://www.facebook.com/TheGaesOfficial
and MaDe for kids e.V. https://www.facebook.com/MaDe-for-kids-eV-917246871756432/
but I probably won't. I will send The Gäs both links so they'll know that Germans don't like me.

  Unfortunately just as with Christians in the U.S., I am not someone they like. It's a conformity issue. An example is that I was called
evil in church because I had a Norwegian accent. People like people that are like themselves. At least A.B. Hammer kept his word. He
told me that if I didn't make it about him that he'd ruin everything for me. But people who have it good have no need to work for
something they don't need.
 And A.B. Hammer has it good, this is him and as for his medical conditions, they could be resolved but that's not what he wants or
needs. Why he does nothing about his situation, he has it good. https://www.ksla.com/story/37863650/an-arklatex-man-endures-a-series-of-unfortunate-events/

 It just shouldn't have been an issue to work at German history (actually Saxony history) with other people but it was. And at the end of the day, I've yet to have had a life. People need to learn that if they want something that they need to work for it or work with other people to have it. People causing me problems might not have changed what it is that I need to do but they made it a bad experience because they wanted what I was working at. Or they wanted me to do nothing because they were doing nothing. Yet I am the bad person, right? And that's because I was willing to work with other people?
 I'll probably be making a working wheel known in March or April because I am willing to work for what I want. Of course from my perspective if what I do works, if people worked with me instead of causing me problems then what I'm doing might have been realized a couple of years ago. And since I need major surgery, that would've let me enjoy my life. Now? I have a lot of bad memories that I have to live with. Still, I'll probably do a show at Utrecht University for Bessler. And if that happens, I'll probably ask the Netherlands to block the passports of people who caused me problems or supported those who did. That would show my displeasure with those who support cyber bullying and those that are cyber bullies.
 And I think with what I've been working through, if I can do it so I can have a life then other people can do it as well. It's just that they'll need to learn about their situation so they can understand what they need to do. This is where when people work together just as people have worked against me, it shows that people have a voice that can be heard.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 05:05:26 PM by Johnsmith »

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2022, 01:15:51 AM »
  Bessler did mention that there are rules that perpetual motion has to follow. The 2nd law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot influence itself. When Bessler said that his primary
mechanism had an external drum, this then allows for the 1st law of thermodynamics. Simply stated, the Earth's heat content of its gravitational field can be conserved as mechanical energy.
 A basic example is that joules, watts and force are all relative terms. f = ma, right? And watts is joules/second. And a joule is 1 newton meter of force. A kilogram at 1 meter has 9.81 newtons of force.
This is all basic science.
  Needless to say I am shocked that Stefan allowed my post. But because he did, I will say what it is about Bessler's work that is Bessler's underlying principle. With the attached image, with A,
1 + 1 * sin45 = 1.707. Divided by 2 it is 0.854. A weight rotating 45º = 0.854 * the weight.
 When a weight is moving on the ascending side, an example is sin45 * 30 = 22,98. And if the disc retracts a weight 20 inches over 90º of rotation, then sin45 * 42.5 = 30.05. And when it rotates another 45º
it will be 20 inches from the axle. This means that when a weight moving upwards, when it is at an angle of 45º below the level of the axle, it's distance to the left of the axle basically remains the same. And when the descending weight averages a distance to the right of the axle (left and right say right angle to) is 36 inches to the right of the axle.
 This allows for a torque of 4.4 newton meters. And if a wheel has a mass of 26 kg, can 4.4 n-m of torque rotate it? Years of work allows for this simple question to be asked. I have been in contact with a librarian at Utrecht University in Utrecht, Netherlands. They have this rare, original book of Bessler's. And he is aware that saying Bessler wasn't a fraud is extremely toxic. If you click on the yellow button that says digital version, you will see Bessler's original book in a digital format.
 https://www.uu.nl/en/utrecht-university-library-special-collections/collections/early-printed-books/scientific-works/das-triumphirende-perpetuum-mobile-orffyreanum-by-johann-bessler

 If you guys are wondering, Bessler most likely knew analytical trigonometry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvSI2yS5M1w  and to be realistic, in Bessler's time, this is a part of trigonometry. It was the math people knew. Today we have calculus. That is actually better at describing the force acting on a Bessler wheel but it omits the details at the same time.

p.s., understanding something like this requires at the minimum an understanding of algebra. It helps to understand how that applies to f = ma. I will be testing this design in January, 2022. Can torque be conserved as momentum? That is what needs to happen in order for gravity to be conserved as mechanical energy. This then can get into a lot of science because once torque is conserved then the moment of inertia of the wheel becomes a consideration. This is what helps to determine at what velocity it will rotate if it works.


Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2022, 02:33:45 AM »
 There is something that makes this a toxic subject. It's called the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Energy can't effect its own state of being. Pretty basic.
The 1st law of thermodynamics allows for energy to be conserved. An example is when the distance between a fulcrum and a pulley increases, the distance
to the weight wheel remains the same.
 This shows that no work has been done if a weight on a pendulum which gets its force from swinging remains constant. Just basic Bessler Mechanics. And if
anyone has noticed, the axle the wheel rotates around is to one side of the fulcrum of the pendulum. 2 pulleys simply allow for a pendulum to swing from the
axle of the wheel. And in over 300 years everyone has missed this.
 If you consider that in ancient Rome that wild animals were lifted to the arena floor because pulleys were used. At a 1:1 ratio where a line passes over them,
and even at a much different ratio, they are guides. It is when a line rotates a pulley that it is performing work as far as work = mass time distance goes.
 And it seems that even a drum (retraction disc) follows the rule of ratios. And at 1:1, a 90º rotation of the disc allows for the weight wheel to move up the arm
at the same rate. This gets into a lot of math, mechanics, etc.
 And I am posting this because Ken Behrendt might read this. Then he will know that there is math theory as well as mechanics behind what I am doing. And
going back many years, I've always followed the math and Bessler's clues. And a link to Ken's book; https://www.amazon.com/Triumphant-Orffyrean-Perpetual-Finally-Explained/dp/1546276467
 And if what I am doing works then he can write a new book about how Bessler was successful but didn't receive the credit that he deserved. Basically my work does need to be about
Johann Bessler. It is his work and if what I am doing is right then he'll deserve credit for what he did. And this would make me his student. I am learning from him, right?

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2022, 01:03:08 PM »
Quote
Stefan, if my work on Bessler is successful I will never visit Germany.
And I won't go to it at all, whether I make a Bessler wheel or I don't make a Bessler wheel.
Or maybe I already have it. But not because of this, but because no one is waiting for me there.
It's good for you to discourse, I will go, I will not go. :)
You have a choice. :D

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2022, 02:43:23 PM »
I have reviewed Bessler’s book (authentic Tartar Sauce)


It is advanced mechanical engineering, even for our time,
The title appears deceiving because of misinterpretation.
He is not saying anything about perpetual motion as we think of it.


What this book says is how to keep devices operating for long periods of time.
Every device he describes has a clearly stated drive mechanism,
which can be seen in the lithographs.
 (that those fancy old world computer looking sketches)


The existence of this book not only gives credibility to Bessler,
but also validates claims that he was intentionally discredited by acedemia.

He employs the use of: Flywheels, clockwork gears, weights, pulleys, rope-drives,
the Archimedes Screw, levers, and even harmonic balancers.


Quite impressive

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2022, 03:53:17 PM »
And I won't go to it at all, whether I make a Bessler wheel or I don't make a Bessler wheel.
Or maybe I already have it. But not because of this, but because no one is waiting for me there.
It's good for you to discourse, I will go, I will not go. :)
You have a choice. :D


  I've been to Germany before. And Germans have told me they like AB Hammer but not me. They say I killed someone.
This makes it a bad situation. The police want to know who it was that I killed. It is stressful being attacked for having
killed someone. But I think this was so that AB Hammer can have my work. You'd do that for a friend, right?
 This is where if people get AB Hammer, they'll be unhappy. Of course would someone do what they can to ruin someone's
life over Bessler's wheel? People don't think anyone would.
 And this is what AB Hammer and rlortie promoted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LeYYidRXlk
It is what their combined 50 years of experience taught them. And this is their lesson which people have to accept because
they are helping people. And accepting what they teach is mandatory. The principle being demonstrated is
called The Keel Effect. It explains why perpetual motion is impossible. And at besslerwheel.com, they too accept The Keel Effect
and have been saved.
 I now accept The Keel Effect so AB Hammer, rlortie and their friends will like me. And now I'm not a killer because I learned why
I was the problem. See? Now I'm going along to get along.

p.s., the Republic of Saxony hasn't always been a part of Germany. And as for Germany, it didn't become a country until 1849.
Bessler passed away around 1745.

p.s.s., I find it disturbing that wanting to work with other people on Bessler's wheel was a problem. And this goes back to perpetual
motion is impossible. It is impossible. Conserving energy however is possible. That is the difference between the 1st and 2nd laws
of thermodynamics. But most people don't understand this.

p.s., and since I need surgery first and foremost, if this build works like I think it can then I might walk away from this. And then I can
do things that aren't as toxic. I have asked this guy https://www.mpic.de/3785120/profile-poeschl about working on an atmospheric
chemistry experiment with me. A working Bessler wheel might encourage him. You know, I discover a part of his country's history
and he helps me to see if we can discover something working together. And to do that, I wouldn't need to visit Germany. Since I'd be
recovering from major surgery I'd have an excuse. And with the experiment, it would be to see if conservation of energy allows for
a new process in atmospheric chemistry. And that would give him a reason to work with me.
 And with the science, the IPCC has said that it has observed something but does not understand why it happens. It's like asking if a
drum can lift weights if it is not a part of the wheel. Can it?

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2022, 04:20:59 PM »
I have reviewed Bessler’s book (authentic Tartar Sauce)


It is advanced mechanical engineering, even for our time,
The title appears deceiving because of misinterpretation.
He is not saying anything about perpetual motion as we think of it.


What this book says is how to keep devices operating for long periods of time.
Every device he describes has a clearly stated drive mechanism,
which can be seen in the lithographs.
 (that those fancy old world computer looking sketches)


The existence of this book not only gives credibility to Bessler,
but also validates claims that he was intentionally discredited by acedemia.

He employs the use of: Flywheels, clockwork gears, weights, pulleys, rope-drives,
the Archimedes Screw, levers, and even harmonic balancers.


Quite impressive


  I find it interesting that people overlook this;
Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (low or narrow cylinder) which resembles a grindstone. This disc can be called the principle piece of my machine. Accordingly, this wheel consists of an external wheel (or drum) for raising weights which is covered with stretched linen.
https://besslerwheel.com/writings/das_triumphans.html

 Aren't you able to consider how a weight can have 2 different axis of rotation? Or does a person have to be like Bessler was? He was 1/2 German and 1/2 Polish.
Today we're called hybrids. We can consider more than one perspective. An example is, can I only consider the 2nd law of thermodynamics? And if you don't
understand mechanics, math and science then in these forums that makes you an expert. And sadly, skeptics are the most credible people in a perpetual motion forum.
And they're experts because all they need to say is "It won't work".

 Still, the actual problem might be that I am working at it and that bothers some people. In besslerwheel.com, AB Hammer and other "private" builders wanted me banned
because they wanted people to talk to them about what they say they're building but can't show. A lot of people tried arguing that it was nice that someone was
willing to work openly with people but in the end I got banned. And as for those who liked someone sharing their work with them? They got chased off. It's strange that
people who say "prove it to us" are seen as credible while they refuse to show their work.

Offline onepower

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2022, 05:37:58 PM »
Johnsmith
It's an interesting problem and many people can read the same literature and come to completely different conclusions. Does anyone know if there is an English translation of Besslers book?.

Regards
AC

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2022, 10:38:35 PM »
Johnsmith
It's an interesting problem and many people can read the same literature and come to completely different conclusions. Does anyone know if there is an English translation of Besslers book?.

Regards
AC


  Thanks. I know a lot of people at besslerwheel.com cite the book John Collins wrote. I have asked Ken Behrendt if he translated Bessler's book. At the other forum, I think different people translated different parts of what Bessler wrote. It would be a thought for to translate the book that Utrecht University has. I'd need to type it in German like Wie es aberben müctlicher and then use an online translator so it becomes  How it is more difficult
 I don't know if someone has done a best possible translation of Bessler's own book. Because it is over 300 years old there is no copyright involved.
 With what I am working on, the drawing with the person swinging agrees with Bessler having said that his weights get their force from swinging. What people will not understand is that the drum does not rotate when it lifts a weight. This is because the wheel is rotating. The 3rd drawing shows a line going from the right side of the drum to directly below the grindstone; quoting Bessler;
 Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (low or narrow cylinder) which resembles a grindstone.

 When his grindstone rotates 90º the drum will lift the weight closer to the axle. In the drawing both weights are swinging from the right side of the drum. And where the lines are bent, those are pulley locations. Then when the grindstone rotates, the line to the pulley on the left will wrap around the drum. In the example given, a 20 inch radius has a 90º arc segment that is 31.42 inches long. Because the line's length remains a constant length, the weight is the same distance from the fulcrum. Yet it will move 31.42 inches closer to the axle.
 It's after this that f = ma can be considered because of the n-ms of torque being developed by the overbalance. What I've realized is that it does seem to require 8 weight wheels. This is because resistance in the bearings does consume a fair amount of energy. And if the moment of inertia is considered then it can be known how much energy is lost because of the bearings and bushings used. I'm actually working on a spreadsheet for that. They help to organize my thoughts. There is a lot to consider with this design. And with moment of inertia and f = ma, how much energy does a wheel that weighs 22 kg's need to rotate at 0.5 m/s with it's moment of inertia at as an example 0.75 meters? This is one energy expenditure often over looked.
 A link to my YouTube channel; https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6p2S01II-6I2j46qVXnHXg

p.s., the answer is 11 newtons. And the torque I'm building to is 4.74. So if it rotates at 0.125 m/s, it will need 2.75 newtons. At .2 m/s it will need 4.4 newtons. And since 60 cm's is about the moment of inertia,
60 * 2Pi = about 4.4 meters. So it could rotate at about 3 rpm. If so then the frame itself will need to go on a diet.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2022, 04:37:53 PM »
 I went over some of the math again. A velocity of 0.25 m/s^2 would be anticipated. This is with using weight wheels that have a mass of 1.363 kgs.
If the mass of the weight wheels were increased by 0.5 kgs so they'd weigh 1.863 kgs, then the anticipated velocity would be about 0.325 m/s^2.
This means that adding 1.1 lbs. to each weight wheel would be about 5 rpm. And since a part of the frame including the weight wheels not creating
an over balance would be moving downward, would that extra force account for the resistance in the bearings?
 This is where doing math is essential. And with what I've built, this is where having a shop would've helped. And while 3 to 5 rpm doesn't sound
like much, it is more than 0 rpm. And with my experience, I'll know how I can improve this design. Of course if this build works then there are 3 or 4
other ways that I can think of that are possible. Then it's a matter of understanding what force/energy can be conserved. And for fun, there is the
Atmos clock which if it's builders wanted it to, it could probably be a perpetual motion machine. It converts ambient air temperature into work. And
this is an example of the 1st law of thermodynamics. If you consider that a change in temperature of 1º (they do not specify C or F but will consider
C as most likely) can run for 2 days or more, then a larger model would be able to store/conserve more energy and could run for many more days.
https://revolutionwatch.com/the-atmos-clock-part-one/
 And a working Bessler wheel could allow me to do a show at Utrecht University with Bessler's original book. Then some of Bessler's drawings could be
animated (built) using this design as a basis for converting drawings into working wheels. That'd mostly be for Bessler. And as everyone knows, Bessler
was arrested for being accused of being a fraud. And with how things have gone for me, things really haven't changed in the last 300 years.
 And the Atmos clock does describe the challenge of perpetual motion quite accurately. How can energy be conserved. This is where with room
temperature, if you consider that KE = 3/2kT then the energy of an ideal gas can only change if it is acted upon by something else. And thermodynamics
allows for conservation of energy when seeking an equilibrium/balance. And Bessler said that his wheel always sought a balance but could never find it.
And that is why the wheel would rotate, it would be seeking a balance between the left and right sides of the axle.

@onepower, Ken let me know that John Collins paid a lot of money for getting Bessler's writings translated. I might do my own because of the numerous
builds that I've done based on both Bessler's writings and drawings. This is where if my build works then I'll have a better understanding of Bessler's
work than anybody else because I took the time (over a decade?) to do the work. I actually started in 2008 or 2009 with building. With that said I also
had to learn wood working so I can build. I have experience and schooling with machining and have CATIA schooling and blueprint schooling as well.
 What CATIA is; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATIA
I used to work for Boeing and had a friend recommend that I take a few classes. This is where using SketchUp today is pretty easy for me.

p.s., I think I will do a translation of Bessler's book. Then if what I am building works then I could probably offer an accurate translation. Then someone who
knows German and understands both mechanics and science can review my translation and improve it. And to add a picture that no one has published, it
seems to be how the pendulum worked with the inner mechanics of Bessler's wheel. Because I know what book that picture is in, I'll be able to translate the
pages before and after it to see if how it works is explained. With the 3rd picture, it shows both the end view and the side view of Bessler's wheel.
 And Wagner is the person who called Bessler a fraud. So it might be interesting to learn more about it.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2022, 01:02:38 AM »
 We have what's known as a paradox. I might tank my work on Bessler's wheel. I have my own invention which I might be able to have built.
And any time I demonstrate something, there are 2 groups of people I could work with. What most have missed is that Bessler's wheel could
be beneficial in a humanitarian way. It would provide power for small generators and water pumps.
 From my personal perspective, I could probably get an Austrian scientist working in Germany to work with me on an atmospheric chemistry
experiment. The problem with that is that I'm not a scientist. Should I care why CO2 is responsible for the ozone layer recovering? I'm not a
scientist.
 The image shows what using a drum allows for as far as the motion of weights goes. The black becomes half black after 45º of rotation.
Everything is color coded to show direction. If you consider a weight moves to bottom center, that weight moves away from it. A slight
overbalance is realized. But when the black moves to half black, a lot of torque is generated. And if you look at the weights at 9:00 and at
6:00, they are the same distance from the top right of the 1/4 drum.
 Next week if I want I'll be able t do the testing. But should I come before Bessler? And that might need to happen. That could work to
Bessler's favor because people would be wanting to know who I think did better.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2022, 01:56:27 AM »
I’ve become fairly fluent in Old Latin,


Bessler is clear in what he is saying.
Our definition of “perpetual motion” is not anywhere to be found


The weights keep his devices running like a grandfather clock.
In others, its a heavy flywheel that must be spun up, etc.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2022, 10:02:09 PM »
I’ve become fairly fluent in Old Latin,


Bessler is clear in what he is saying.
Our definition of “perpetual motion” is not anywhere to be found


The weights keep his devices running like a grandfather clock.
In others, its a heavy flywheel that must be spun up, etc.


  This is where people will probably need to become familiar with how grandfather clocks and flywheels work.
 Then how can the 2 different things be made to be similar. And then they can look at what I'm working on.
 Since Bessler built windmills, like a water wheel, they could be considered a flywheel. I don't think that term
was around 300 years ago but a grindstone is the same thing.
 And with the windmill, my test using 4 arms/weights. https://youtu.be/RZcu-8J0Lqk
And who knows, like me he might've worked through the progression of how to use a disc (drum in his words IMO).
 If you watch my video of the 4 weight test that I posted a link to, consider why the weight wheel assembly is
moving up the arm when it's not being pulled up or lifted.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 12:57:52 AM by Johnsmith »

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2022, 12:31:47 AM »
  With the 1st drawing, bratenroender means roaster. So the device is actually called Wagner's Roaster.
I've considered the possibility that Wagner was who made the clock components for the grandfather clocks that Bessler
built. And with such gears as in Bessler's drawing, those are similar to what would be found in a grandfather clock.
 The attached image is a basic description. With an actual grandfather clock, multiple sets of gears might be used. And
yet it was Wagner who called Bessler a fraud.

Offline Johnsmith

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Re: Build 2
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2022, 08:16:30 PM »
 This is page 3 of the book https://objects.library.uu.nl/reader/index.php?obj=1874-206158&lan=en&_ga=2.172428714.880806695.1594795323-938448423.1594186832#page//72/81/80/72818089194164649276751789453749478319.jpg/mode/1up

 It will be a lot of work but considering the time it will take to show a working wheel if it is possible, I can at least start on it. And if anything interesting comes up I'll post it.


 Pg 3

  Translation of Johann Bessler’s Book

 
 The triumphant perpetual mobile Orffyreanum
     
                            to all

Deeds of Honor / Height (High?) Heads / Regents

 and stands the belt / 2c.

                                ?n native submission

 xxxxxxx etfvanniger  transaction presented /

and as a application remove from whose inventory

                  ORFFYREO
 The king raven and pretty free roll man remain silent / but God work
roll man wonderful praise and babble openly

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 1719 in October  to ball(?) pressure
and relocated from the inventory sieve(?) / by that it also advised already
self-bound to concerned is on the Wicked Weissenstein


 I've got the tooling made so I can make some parts that I need for the weight wheels so things are progressing.
The 4 numbered arms are the only ones that will have weight wheels on them. If it rotates 45º with some momentum
left over then I can add dummy weights to the other 4 arms. And that will let me know if I will need for the weight
wheels to be heavier. By being methodical like this it gives the best chance for success.
 And if all goes well then I'll need to work on the catch and release mechanism for the pulleys.