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Author Topic: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.  (Read 18701 times)

Offline Jimboot

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  • Posts: 1341
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2022, 01:02:21 AM »
I spent several months trying to replicate this. Best performance I could get was 300RPM on 30v for 20ma. I was waiting for Brad as he said he had a new improved design but that was 6 months ago. Certainly the 1+1=3 effect was present in a static test but I could not get the same performance when running. I have since removed the TPs and replaced with PMs. The rotor & TPs need to be precision cut to size. I was going to get something fabricated but was waiting to see the new specs which never came. Here is where I got to. https://youtu.be/_kmveZUMHF8 This is what I'm working on now https://youtu.be/DN3sllYB6VI same coils, flywheel, switching etc just PMs instead of TPs. Happy New Year! :)

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2022, 09:04:22 AM »
First measurments (linear action) to remove the steel plate.

       as in this video @  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x86l8ef

Check my math ?

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2022, 09:33:21 AM »
second set / no calcs. yet.

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2022, 04:52:00 PM »
The magnet configuration I have on my test bench is too
radically different from the Tinman configuration. These peak
force ratios are very different.

        Its not applicable here.   >:(

I will have to wait for my neo magnets to show up.

Lets make this one go ------------------->

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2022, 06:30:13 PM »
@ seychelles

Here's to the new year and O.U.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLwmk8nLvKs


                          except that it is Sunday.

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2022, 08:42:58 PM »
From the charts (above)

Peak forces are at a ratio of 
984 grams as force (2 magnets) to 800 grams as force (1 magnet).

peak forces ratios 984 / 800 =  1.23  to 1

kinetic energies over the course of the 90mm of displacements are at a ratio of 
38893 (2 magnets) to  26250 (1 magnet).

actual kinetic energy of the forces ratio 38893 / 26250 =  1.148 to 1

peak to peak 1.23  to 1   and  actual energy 1.148 to 1

This is the reason for measuring the force changes over the distances
and not simply the peak forces of the Tinman design.

The charts show (in part) the process.

Offline sm0ky2

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  • Posts: 3684
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #51 on: January 03, 2022, 10:26:57 PM »
How re you how are your measurements taken?


Are you measuring linear force?
Arc radius?


 From a tangent? Or just arbitrarily selected measuring point?


Distance from center of rotation?
Or torque at the axle?


These details make a huge difference in how the mathematics are applied

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #52 on: January 03, 2022, 10:38:18 PM »
How re you how are your measurements taken?


Are you measuring linear force?
Arc radius?


 From a tangent? Or just arbitrarily selected measuring point?


Distance from center of rotation?
Or torque at the axle?


These details make a huge difference in how the mathematics are applied

All this is allready given in the topic.

     EDIT
I came back to edit this post and got ...


Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #53 on: January 03, 2022, 11:44:32 PM »
                   other wise
My point being..

Peak force measurements of the tinman design are the only things that had
other wise been presented and / or discussed in this topic.

         Why are   only    peak forces presented ?
Because many have overlooked, that the application of a
different measurement process is necessary in order have any
idea if there is inherently, a desirable energy difference, right out
the gate ?  I'm guessing.

The difference between the ratios of the peak forces only,
              and
the ratios of the work done throughout the course of the travel
of the interacting magnets are typically very different.

Example 1
given in the above charts.

Example 2
in the twist drive interactions the difference is thus...

Peak forces are 133 grams to 115 grams  or 1.156 to 1
            while..
The actual kinetic energy difference during the entire course of the
magnet travels is > 2 to 1.
                    also
How does one proceed, in order to do these kinds of measurements ?
             The charts above, to some degree illuminate that process.

                  That's what I am up to.

When my neo. magnets arrive, I can do / walk through the process of
measuring around a fly wheel (forces / total energy causing rotation).

   best wishes
           floor
EDIT
             P.S.
             The neo. magnets just arrived !

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2022, 07:26:43 AM »
More observations and a couple of ideas.

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2022, 06:02:55 PM »
For the tin man and for us all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_2IdybTV0

Offline captainpecan

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  • Posts: 680
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2022, 10:54:04 AM »
Here is what I have so far. I made it so I can adjust pretty much everything and expand if needed. Everything is still to loose and the Neo's are still yanking everything together while I'm working with the gap. I also have only worked with one set of magnets so far so all the pull is on one side as well. I don't have any numbers to report yet until I get things tightened better. I will hopefully strengthen everything up this weekend and make it more reliable to get some numbers. I will keep at it and update as soon as I can. A lot to do still, but it's starting to come along.

Offline synchro1

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  • Posts: 4689
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2022, 02:25:35 PM »
Here is what I have so far. I made it so I can adjust pretty much everything and expand if needed. Everything is still to loose and the Neo's are still yanking everything together while I'm working with the gap. I also have only worked with one set of magnets so far so all the pull is on one side as well. I don't have any numbers to report yet until I get things tightened better. I will hopefully strengthen everything up this weekend and make it more reliable to get some numbers. I will keep at it and update as soon as I can. A lot to do still, but it's starting to come along.


Good solid design! The Russian "Magnet Shield" videos are the best. It should come as no surprise if you produce the same COP.

Floor

  • Guest
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2022, 02:32:08 PM »
This looks like another cat is out of the bag.
Way to go guys.

Offline captainpecan

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  • Posts: 680
Re: RESSURECTED TINMAN NEW INVENTION.
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2022, 02:23:26 AM »
Just another small update. I'm getting there. I've got things tightened up pretty good now. Now the only issue I have is that the magnets still like to slide side to side on the slick surface of the metal. Was hoping the strength of the magnets would hold them down. But they are so strong, it's a bit hard to control them without gluing them or something. I'm working on it. If I get the gap closer, they break free from their seated position and jump to the rotor. But everything is tight and not flexing anymore. I am using N52 1/2 by 1/2 cylinder magnets. The metal I used is 1/8 inch by 3/4 inch steel.


I can't seem to get back into my old youtube account. I just made a new one. Here is a tiny video of the gap and rotor. As you can see, the magnets still want to slide a tad.


https://youtu.be/FnJ4QljQpK4