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2022 builders survivor board => Lueling Magnet motor => Topic started by: hartiberlin on September 28, 2021, 02:53:14 AM

Title: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: hartiberlin on September 28, 2021, 02:53:14 AM
This is the new thread for the Lüling magnet motor.
Title: Re: Lueling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on September 28, 2021, 10:55:32 PM
Thanks Stefan, for opening this Thread for me!!


And I want to paste here the O.U Forum Agreement and Rules about the Builder's Boards and Threads in general:


Word from the O. U. administrator regarding the builders board and its topics.                                                         

"Each board can also have many different Threads, but the Builder will also be the moderator in all these Threads of his board...so remember this.  He has the power then to delete messages he does not like. If you want to criticize him in any aspect or find an error in his work, you should be friendly and let him know. If he does not like your critics and deletes it, you can only save your posting and then post it again into another board, where the builder has no moderator rights  and discuss it over there. this case I can not retrieve your critics postings, as it was already deleted, so better save your postings on your own hard disk, before you post it to the forum for later retrieval...
But I hope this will be all going in a good and friendly manner and people will not fall out over each other and don´t start name calling  and flame wars. "

Notes 1

The Builder is the moderator in all the threads of his board...so remember this.

He has the power then to delete messages he does not like.

Those deleted postings cannot be retrieved.


So, I will be enforcing and executing, exactly as it is written above.


*******************


This is My Builder´s Thread where I will expose the way I see Lüling's Motor Principle, was originally conceived and built, it is my point of view, and am not saying I could not be wrong, anyone can be wrong, and so do I.
However, on my first video of my setup, I demonstrate very clearly, it was a very successful build, it reached 400 plus RPM's while Lüling's reaches 298 RPM's...That tells me right there I am -somehow- on the right track.


And that was on a Plexiglass Model with Two Pairs of 1/2 Inch Neo 52 Grade Permanent Magnets, where ONLY two of those magnets are the one in charge to Spin the Rotor.


I can make a Full Metal Motor, because I have the Tools, the Equipment and the Expertise to do so, with much bigger Magnets, more complex mechanics and Pneumatics Systems.


But, for now, I would like to expand on this same simple model, before moving on a heavier metal setup, in order to share what I have learn so far...


For those that have not seen my Video, here it is:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytCVQ-OZZmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytCVQ-OZZmM)




Thanks very much for your interest in Lüling Motor and on this Thread!!




Regards to All




Ufopolitics






Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on September 28, 2021, 11:26:12 PM
Hello to All,


I would like to clarify that I am NOT claiming to be the First Lüling Follower-Builder that replicated this Motor using Pneumatics...


You Tube user Manfred Klug also built a Lüling Motor, based on Pneumatics, about Four Years ago...below is his #10 Video showing it running:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ6--Fqkdjs&t=17s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ6--Fqkdjs&t=17s)


I believe it is a great build, a nice setup...


However, the reason why -I believe- his motor does not run stronger and faster...is due to his Magnetic arrangement, where there is no Neutralization Alignment.


His Rotor is based on Laminated Steel and no magnets...so it runs based on attraction from Magnets on Stator to a Steel Rotor, plus the moving Steel Arc also made of Steel...which would never, ever be as strong as Magnet to Magnet Interactions.




Regards
Title: WARNINGS ABOUT THIS THREAD
Post by: Ufopolitics on October 01, 2021, 08:17:45 PM
Hello to All,


I want to establish some of my RULES about My Thread below:


1- This Setup is about a FULL ROTARY MAGNET MOTOR just like Lüling Motor is.


So, it means that ANY LINEAR ARRANGEMENT, or anything "NON FULLY ROTARY" posted here, through links, images, etc,etc, would be considered as "NON RELATED" and it would be DELETED, without any given explanation.


2- In My Setup, as in Lüling Motor, (As I see it) DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY ELECTRICAL INPUT to Run, meaning, NO COILS, NO ELECTROMAGNETS, NO SOLENOIDS, No Reed Switches, No Field Transistors, etc, and of course, NO BATTERIES REQUIRED.


So, any posts that start even "suggesting" the use of ANY OF THE ABOVE, or any possibility as to use ELECTRIC POWER, will be DELETED, as NON RELATED.






I know perfectly well, how to use ALL OF THE ABOVE IN MY SETUP, and I know it will work as well, BUT I WILL NOT BE USING ANY AT THIS POINT.


I have build Fully Electric Motors from SCRATCH, and, I mean REAL FULL METAL MOTORS, including DIFFERENT TYPES OF WINDINGS, NEVER SEEN BEFORE...INVENTED BY ME, MYSELF AND I.


And I have proof of ALL am saying and more...My videos are Public on My Youtube Channel, as well as ALL My Previous Threads in ENERGETIC FORUM about these Fields.




Resuming, and asking as a favor...Please, do not make me start deleting posts, just because of REASONS ABOVE, previously WARNED ABOUT.




ABOUT BUILDING THIS SETUP:

I MAKE MY OWN PARTS...and I do not mean in "wood" or "plastic"... ;D


I am referring to Stainless Steel, Regular Steel, Brass and Aluminum...I build from bushings to levers, to all shafts required for the assembly.
I can MIGWELD, TIGWELD, SOLDER, TORCH (Oxygen-Acetylene) to heat up, bend, cut,  Aluminum, Steel and Brass...
I have my own LATHE to shape almost everything I need from scratch.


I have all kind of AIR TOOLS to cut, press, grind, sand, polish, rivet, etc,etc all I want...


I also have Electrical Tools...


I have learned a long time ago, that it is always MUCH better, if you do not have to "DEPEND" upon ANYBODY ELSE to make your parts...


I also DO ALL MY SETUP FIRST IN 2D CAD, 3D CAD, before I start cutting and grinding parts...IN ORDER TO CHECK RIGHT ANGLES, RIGHT PATTERNS, RIGHT MOVEMENTS.


This BUILD REQUIRES A VERY HIGH PRECISION, PLUS MUST BE VERY, VERY sturdy (FIRMLY BUILT), meaning, NO WOBBLING, NOT UNEVEN, NOT UNBALANCED SPINNING...VERY ACCURATELY BUILT!!


WHY DID I WROTE ALL OF THE ABOVE?


BECAUSE I do not want You to waste your time and your money, if you would not be able to make it ALL by yourself, whether because of lack of the proper tooling, equipment or simply, capability-expertise to make it, without depending upon "Third Parties"...




I THANK ALL OF YOU for reading me and participating if you can and wish to REPLICATE my SETUP.


Next I will be displaying in detail (Graphics, CAD, Images) about NEUTRALIZATION the way I have ACHIEVED IT, related to My Build.




Regards and Thanks again.




Ufopolitics

Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: stiplanet on October 03, 2021, 09:23:14 PM
thanks Ufopolitics we are looking forward to starting this new project, hoping that something functional will come out of this project.
best regards STI 8)
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on January 24, 2022, 08:19:05 PM
I moved here from another thread that covers this machine. Special moderation is very important nowadays to keep out disruptive elements that are spreading disinformation. Yes, they even present their own constructions to show that something is not working. It is often impossible to follow when other inventions start to mix with the original subject. In fact, I myself have already deviated from the original Luling system by wanting to replace the compressed air with a mechanical solution. But I'm invited here so I feel welcome. The image shows where I've come so far digital. What needs to happen now is to make the mechanical push back (neutralization) as sharp (short) as possible and adjustable. I use fusion 360 cad software and 3D printing for fast prototyping. To be continued.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on January 24, 2022, 09:14:18 PM
I moved here from another thread that covers this machine. Special moderation is very important nowadays to keep out disruptive elements that are spreading disinformation. Yes, they even present their own constructions to show that something is not working. It is often impossible to follow when other inventions start to mix with the original subject. In fact, I myself have already deviated from the original Luling system by wanting to replace the compressed air with a mechanical solution. But I'm invited here so I feel welcome. The image shows where I've come so far digital. What needs to happen now is to make the mechanical push back (neutralization) as sharp (short) as possible and adjustable. I use fusion 360 cad software and 3D printing for fast prototyping. To be continued.


You are very Welcome here Knovos!!

I am the Moderator on this Thread PLUS ALL other Topics opened under the main Builder's Thread Lüling Motor.

And yes, the other Non Related Topic here I just gave them a Warning to move their THread and I will be deleting all data on Wednesday at 3:00 PM my time.

As well as any "NOISE" of anyone posting any BS non related crap, would also be deleted.

It is the only way we could communicate clearly.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on January 24, 2022, 10:52:45 PM
@Knovos,


"I will have to study what mechanical constructions there are for such a task. The great thing about this machine is that we don't have to gamble. It is very clear what needs to be done and how everything works. You made a cristal clear video and showed the world a device THAT WORKS! I'm going to move to the builder's forum you're suggesting, and go from there."


Think about levers and their laws...springs which retain energy and "not necessarily" we need to fully discharge them to obtain our desired movements and force...


The good thing about experimenting with the real setup...is that it gives you the real data we need to work on this...for example:


The maximum force required to pull the attract magnet, is only required for about 2 to 3 mm of distance...after that, is  moved back with one finger... ;D

Imagine a Toggle Switch...but making the "triggering" part very, very soft, and not needing to travel too long of a distance...while amplifying the force applied, plus the distance with small levers and small springs...

Yes, It can be done!!


Cheers




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on January 30, 2022, 07:58:57 PM
Hello to All,

A very useful tool that I highly recommend when building my setup, is a Digital Force, Push-Pull Gauge...
I got mine on EBAY, (the cheapest one) for like  $58.00 USD, it is 500 Newtons max capacity, but enough when playing with small 1/2 inch magnets.


Picture shown

First, You will need to know what is the Angular Force that Your Repulse Magnet at your rotor is generating whenever you start Turning OFF Neutralization...then understand that the more you set apart the attraction magnet or "spread the attract gap" (weakening attraction force).

Of course, to do this test right, you must fix the gauge on the stator plate, and barely touching repulse magnet with point attachement and extension bar.


My 52 Neo generates around 17 to 20 Newtons max...


Also this Gauge will be very useful to measure the springs force you would be using in a fully mechanical device...the exert pressure force required to move a specific lever, etc,etc...


Cheers




Ufopolitics


Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on January 30, 2022, 08:05:56 PM
APPLYING GAUGE TO READ MAX MAGNET FORCE

Here are a couple of pics of a Scene I am working on for a second video animation...it shows pretty clearly how to  apply Digital Gauge to measure your Magnetic Repulse Force.


Of course, you will  have to build your own "gig" or a bracket with a lever (like is shown on image) in order to pull the attract magnet smoothly while reading...
The Gauge must be fixed to plate surface, it comes with built in four nuts on lower body plus four small bolts...


But, believe me, this test will show you exactly what would be your correct attract magnet displacement or gap opening DISTANCE, as the generated force increases on the repulse magnet side.


You will also learn, that even a very small displacement of attract magnet will start generating a force at 180º...


Then you will realize that the regulation of this attract gap would be the acceleration-deceleration of your future magnet motor... ;D




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on January 30, 2022, 08:38:05 PM

APPLYING GAUGE TO READ MAX MAGNET FORCE PART 2

Here is another picture, showing repulse magnet at Max Angle of Force...
Note Lever has pulled magnet backwards...as rotor have a wider angle than previous images...


Like I said before, this type of magnets will generate from 17 to 20 Newtons, which is about 4.5 (4.496) lbf ...


The angle of max force lasts around 15º (active) from zero (0º) being the straight Bisector Alignment...


...which let Us think that many more magnet pairs (at 180º apart)  could be set on this Rotor, after we play enough with this Dual Pair setup...


Cheers




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: synchro1 on January 31, 2022, 08:42:56 AM
Wouldn´t it take less force to sheer the attraction magnet rather then pull it?
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on January 31, 2022, 03:20:15 PM
Wouldn´t it take less force to sheer the attraction magnet rather then pull it?


Someone already asked this question on my YT Channel...
The plain and simple answer is "yes", it will take less force to sheer, or slide magnet off than pulling it straight outwards...

Now the question is ..."would it work the same way?...would motor run at all?


In order to answer the above question, you will need to imagine the invisible magnetic fields on both magnets in attraction...

Then realize that Magnetic Fields have a Spatial Diameter of operation which goes further away than the physical body of the Permanent Magnet.


In the case of a Motor, simply composed by a Stator and a Rotor, the Rotor have a "Spatial Orbital Magnetic Field" which has a specific distance or extension (beyond the rotor physical distance) whether spining or static...


Now, if you sheer or just slide the Stator Magnetic Field...would it separate from the Rotor Orbital Magnetic Field?


Come on!!, I bet you could answer that question yourself...


The "Effect" that we achieve by straight out sudden separation, not only drives Stator Attract Field away from Rotor Orbital Field, but it creates the "Fading Effect" of weakening (very fast) the Attraction Magnetic Field Force...then as immediate response, the Repulse Field (at 180º apart) gains back a full force...

Hope this answered your question




Cheers




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 01, 2022, 02:31:35 PM

Very well done. The magnet pump is fun to play with but seperation by direct pull between the attraction magnets would be nearly impossible. The gap between the magnets extremely critical!

The setup is made for a GAP neutralization coil to mask the attraction. The 3 to 1 COP probably will reappear.


Great, glad you've got it...hope everyone around and watching does as well...


Another disagreement here with your "statement" : but separation by direct pull between the attraction magnets would be nearly impossible.


Nothing is "impossible" unless we want it to "see it" that way...

First ancient Physicist we all need to bring here is Archimedes...


"Give me a lever, long enough and a Fulcrum where to set  it...and I can move the World..."


1- The strongest direct pull only takes a couple of mm and after that short distance you could move it with one finger...


2- The Pull works directly proportional to the Rotation, which means, if rotor spins freely it will "cooperate" to work and once in motion the pull force is reduced according to speed gain...


To design a Mechanical System that does this job is not easy...takes time, patience and skills, but definitively it can be done... ;D




Cheers




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 01, 2022, 05:20:04 PM

Regardless of any skill level no mechanical device could ever deliver the function and efficiency of a GAP coil neutralizatio pulse to achieve the seperation. Running one in Adam's backspike resonance where the pulse first attracts the rotor magnet, then the backspike masks the backing magnets and allows seperation.


Anyway good luck on your build.


On this Thread, my Thread, I do not want to involve ANY ELECTRICAL COILS, except, in a future to Generate Electricity.


Here I want to develop a Pneumatic Motor and a Fully Mechanical System, period.


It looks like Lulling uses a rotating shield to do that job.


Lüling had TWO PROTOTYPES shown on his video, One standing still, where he spins rotor slightly with one finger...
And the RUNNING PROTOTYPE...which is the one I am working on.


The Two Types have different configurations...and the one standing still, I can not evaluate, since it is very little shown about it.


This is a BUILDER´S THREAD, not a debating one...


There is another Thread here about Lüling where you can go and start your other possibilities and assumptions>>>>> Luling Old Thread (https://overunity.com/15864/friedrich-luling-magnet-motor/)




I was very polite with you...I answered all your questions, but now you are creating a deviation from the Thread, So I will ask you to stop posting here.




Thanks




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: forest on February 01, 2022, 08:34:31 PM
Fully mechanical system looks good to me, pneumatic motor - well you should explain how you want to sustain air pressure without expending energy. Long time ago I posted old patent with fully rotational magnetic motor fully mechanical system using ratchet device. Sorry, I don't know patent number , but would try to find it if you are interested.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 01, 2022, 09:00:54 PM
Fully mechanical system looks good to me, pneumatic motor - well you should explain how you want to sustain air pressure without expending energy. Long time ago I posted old patent with fully rotational magnetic motor fully mechanical system using ratchet device. Sorry, I don't know patent number , but would try to find it if you are interested.


Thanks Forest,


I am working currently on a fully mechanical motor...and I know it will be finished in a couple of weeks...it is for demonstration purposes that it can be done.
Magnets have incredible Energy, We just have not being able to harness it ...yet.


The Pneumatic System could work in a closed circuit, where exhaust from valves and pistons are collected to a lower pressure tank, then through a purge pump it goes back to main pressurized tank.


Also a small compressor could be used as the "purge pump"

Pneumatics Closed Systems do exists, basically when they work on dirty environments or in Hospitals, where the air should be kept pure and clean...so we do not have to "invent them"...


I believe (and I will confirm this, once I finish my mechanical setup) that Lüling had a fully mechanical motor built, as he utilized pressurized air to accelerate, decelerate as maybe Hydraulics as well to set reverse rotation drive...


Yes please, I would like to see that magnet motor Patent using ratchet device...if you could find it...thanks!!


My System will work based on Levers and Springs...High and Low mechanical pressure system...and not that complicated...




Cheers




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: forest on February 02, 2022, 04:22:10 PM
Ok, I found it.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 02, 2022, 04:45:53 PM
Ok, I found it.


Thanks Forest!!

Unbelievable!!, a Patent from 1913-1914...A Mechanical Magnet Motor, self running, just a little push and starts...


It uses attraction to run, based on steel plates arc, or Ramp actuated on and off by the mechanical ratchet system...pretty simple.


It is not the same principle as I am working on, but it is very interesting.


I just went over the explanation and graphics real quick...I will do a slow reading later on.




But many thanks Forest!!




Cheers






Ufopolitics



Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on February 06, 2022, 09:36:48 PM
I'm still working on my mechanical ideas for the Luling motor but want to show up here when I have something useful. Showing drawings or animations that might work ar often a kind of pollution ;D  Amazing that old paper from 1913! Maybe this was an inspiration for Luling.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on February 16, 2022, 09:57:32 PM

Haven't had any success with finding a fast push mechanism yet. The attempts I've made didn't work at all. I am not an engineer more a maker so I lack knowledge of what systems there are in the world. I did come across a video channel where someone shows a huge amount of mechanical methods. Perhaps an inspiration for all those who want to work on this system. https://www.youtube.com/c/KINGMECHANICALOFFICIAL
There must be something there that is useful.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 17, 2022, 03:59:41 PM
Haven't had any success with finding a fast push mechanism yet. The attempts I've made didn't work at all. I am not an engineer more a maker so I lack knowledge of what systems there are in the world. I did come across a video channel where someone shows a huge amount of mechanical methods. Perhaps an inspiration for all those who want to work on this system. https://www.youtube.com/c/KINGMECHANICALOFFICIAL (https://www.youtube.com/c/KINGMECHANICALOFFICIAL)
There must be something there that is useful.


Hello Knovos,


Well, you are not going to find any mechanisms which could be applied as they are built and "ready to go on"...you will have to use them just to learn how they work first.


Most Toggle switches (cut off switches) require a pretty strong push, where you load a spring, until it discharges into the contact...not good.
You will need to balance and modify the spring and the travel distance to make it more "sensitive"...without a lot of effort to actuate it.


The switch we are looking for, does not exists in a mechanical fashion...why?


Imagine a switch is OFF, and you turn it slightly and it goes to the ON Position BUT, right away it RETURNS back to OFF by itself?...so you will never be able to keep it at the ON position...and exactly that is what we are looking for.


I have gone through a few (dozens) of possibilities...and do not work the way I want to...


All the knowledge you will need is about Levers and its laws...the different type of Levers Classes...
I preferably use levers which actuate on small rollers, which reduce friction...to push back and forth.


Also, you will need to imagine your switching mechanism at very high speeds...and most toggle switches are not design to do that...but once in a while...


For simplicity in Design and understanding, I have divided my switching mechanism into three parts:


1- High Pressure side: in charge to apply two different pressures with Two different mechanisms:

A- Pressure Spring actuator to release attract magnet that works for like only two millimmiters.
B- Pressure Spring to Return Magnet back to a "reset" position. (it only starts charging at the very end of travel distance)
(There is a loose travel range in between both Pressures.)


2- The Lower Pressure Switching Pump or "Heart" : Is in charge to switch back and forth in between that loose travel range between High Pressures.


I built this with Three small levers and rollers...all aligned (rotating) within the same axis.


1-A Center Actuator Lever which pivots magnet track, back and forth.
2-A bottom Reverse Lever (connected to #1) and which travels opposed to #1, Center actuator.
3-A bigger "C" Type of lever bracket, embracing both #1 & #2, which actuates #1 back and forth on higher part...
I used a small Tension Spring in between #1 & #2 levers, which swaps from left to right, connected on the higher part of #1 and the lowest of #2 Reverse lever, this spring generates the fast switching defining positions between Right-Left.
Then Sensitivity could be adjusted by tilting closer to spring actuation-trigger through a screw-nut bracket.


The C Bracket is what connects to the triggering part...


2- The Trigger System, which simulates what the air valve and rod does...and it is just the actuating rod and a cam lever which actuates other Transfer levers until it reaches the "C" Bracket-Lever #3 at the "Pump"...


When the rotor actuates all these mechanisms blend together in Sinchronicity...


I have spend Days, Months, in just designing each system here, first on CAD, then on real build...and I am still working now on the CAD actuator part...


I have finished the High Pressure System already, in CAD and building it on the Prototype...so far it is giving me the output I am after.


Every spring, every lever, must be able to be adjusted their pressures as their distance traveling ranges...until you find the right settings.


I have ordered a small CNC-Mill Tool to give the right finishing to all the main pump parts...built in Aluminum.
Also I just got a Vertical mini press CNC-Mill operation to adapt on my Lathe...


I will tell you, you need patience my friend...lots of...


PD: This is a Reciprocating System, not only at magnet back and forth, but all mechanisms must work aligned as a small engine, where their timing is very accurate.


Magnet executes a pressure force, and a much lower required force actuator will amplify that Mechanical Input into the back-forth operation of a longer distance.


This is exactly an Action-Reaction System, where Magnet Force (Action) needs to be always higher than Reaction (your full mechanism) to keep a constant rotation.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 17, 2022, 04:32:28 PM
Some counseling when working on CAD Software...


I always first start with simple 2D CAD, using real scale or 1:1 ratio, in mm.


I take a pic (top view, of course) of my existing prototype and take it to the CAD as a Background image, so all the existing parts are in scale with the ones I will build...

First all my levers are made with simple "poly lines" where I set the right pivoting or center of rotation...plus their travel ends points.
I work with high accuracy and not having any "cross hair lines" not aligned properly at centers...where multiple parts align...this will avoid giving you wrong results, and thinking it is right!
Then I shape my parts around those bracket poly lines with CV Curves tool...once working right, I get all poly lines into a Layer and turn off visibility...so only all parts contour are revealed...


Then I add animation first on 2D Curves of all parts, where all mechanisms start coming alive...


I print a 1:1 2D plan and cut off all my Patterns of every part...then take it to the shop...and cut them off out of a thick plate (1/2 inch) of aluminum...


But first, you need to make sure it works the way you want in your animated CAD Software...before yo start making parts.


The last thing I do, is to take it to a 3D CAD Software and it is basically to illustrate for my videos...




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 17, 2022, 04:57:24 PM
Before, I wrote:


Quote
1-High Pressure side: in charge to apply two different pressures with Two different mechanisms:


A- Pressure Spring actuator to release attract magnet that works for like only two millimmiters.


B- Pressure Spring to Return Magnet back to a "reset" position. (it only starts charging at the very end of travel distance)(There is a loose travel range in between both Pressures.)


I want to specify that both pressure springs, A & B work on separate axis, one axis per pressure spring, and NOT on the same axis or shaft where magnet pivots back and forth!
I have used same shaft as magnet to set high force springs and it does NOT work...why?
It restricts all the moving distances from magnet...even when spring is compressed, it still uses a space which contrains traveling of magnet.
When you set springs in different shafts or axis, there is plenty of room for magnet to travel back and forth.
Remember, this High Pressure Springs only work at the beggining and end of a FREE travel...which is much longer than the springs actuation.

About the magnet separator spring lever-mechanism, the spring is NEVER allowed to fully decompress!!...but only a few mm, (adjustable) that is all required so magnet could be moved easily with just one finger...back and forth.




Hope all this explanations will help you start putting together your CAD Designs...




Good luck






Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 17, 2022, 06:20:37 PM
Related: High Pressure System


I just hate not to provide Graphics and Images about all that I have written before...so, here it is... As am sure, now, you all will have an idea of what I am talking about... :)


Like I wrote before...Pressure 1 & 2 Springs are mounted on separate shafts, in order they actuate independent of each other and whenever it is required to, depending on the retracting magnet positioning.


If you notice I have pointed in Yellow Lines and small arrows, the Gaps of loose distances they operate without any force applied.


Notice Rotor-Stator Magnets are at closest gap and engaged in attraction max travel.


Notice the very small gap (around 2 mm) that the Magnet release spring works on...


The return spring at this positioning as shown, is completely decompressed, it only compresses at the very end of magnet traveling, and basically, at slow motion it will not work effectively...
Only at high speed retraction from magnet shaft, is when this spring will BOUNCE BACK (RETURN) the whole assembly back to Neutral Positioning in milli seconds.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 17, 2022, 08:04:56 PM
Hello,




Here is another image of the High Pressure System, but now I have pulled the attract magnet with just one hand by pulling the knob to the right.


Notice previous small gap from Magnet release Spring is closed now, it already did its job for like 2mm of travel to force magnet out.


The only pressure I am feeling here now, is from the return spring assembly, (Note the loose gap on the RETURN SPRING is zero now) which is trying to return magnet shaft forward, towards rotor.


Like I wrote before, this return spring works FULLY at CONTINUOUS AND FAST RETRACTION during operation of High speed rotation from Rotor.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on February 17, 2022, 08:29:18 PM
Thank you for your very detailed explanation. Looking at the picture you are not far from a solution. It's hard for me to understand how everything works. It's really going in the direction of advanced engineering, I fully understand the need for this, eventually, we want to build a machine that will run for 24-7 months and only stop for maintenance. I think this is all too difficult for the average maker. My hopes were based on a simpler solution and 3D printing everything except for some bearings, shafts, nuts, and bolts. The big advantage of this is that the files can be shared worldwide and can be put together by someone who does not have a high technical level. Let me continue with that version. So the less reliable plastic version, but a device that works. If only something like this can be achieved then each subsequent version will get better. When it comes to 3D printing, it is impossible to print plastic parts similar to those made in metal. I have patience. Let's hope more people join in and use their engineering skills to make as many of these machines as possible.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on February 18, 2022, 02:50:06 PM
Hi Knovos,


My pleasure, and Yes, I know it will work...it is a long path, still with all knowledge, skills and tooling and equipments.
As I understand what you are saying, building a plastic parts motor will end up in a Magnetic Perpetual Toy...
But it is fine, as you said, it will prove a concept that has been considered as "an impossible" for too long.


What I want to achieve is a reliable and useful magnetic engine, which could be scaled up to any size and applied to different fields of usage.
At the same token, it will also prove that concept but "skyhigh"...
Even the Lüling Motor we all saw on the 1966 video is not ready to be mounted on a passenger vehicle...it simply will not work.
A Motor that goes at 290 RPM's is not sufficient to move a passenger car, it needs to develop at least 2500-3000 RPM's max.


However, if you like, I will help you build your motor, simple, with 3D Files for a 3D Printer which could be spread world wide...


There are only TWO BASIC WAYS to Turn Off Neutralization of Magnetic Forces.


1- To weaken the Attraction side, so the Motor will propulse (run) by Repulsion side (the one I have built and will make fully mechanical.)
2- To weaken the Repulsion side, and Motor will run based on the Attraction Forces (which is the type that Lüling showed us on video)


The #2 is easier to build and succeed, however, it is much weaker and slower than #1...why?


Because it uses steel arc plate to weaken the repulsion side, as also to provide an attraction "ramp" for impulse.


The Steel Arc that approaches the Repulsion Gap in Lüling Motor is in charge to "kill" the repulsion effect, so Attraction Forces will gain maximum strength at a certain timing.


The Two approaches are 180º opposite as also the timing to interact and so on...


Magnet attraction to Steel will never, ever, be as strong as between Magnet to Magnet Interactions. And, as a matter of fact, steel will always add a "drag" to the motor spin, reason why it would run slower and weaker.


The Geometry of the Magnets to use for a better performance in #2 setup are ARCS MAGNETS, NOT cubes.
Attraction Field works better with ARC SHAPED MAGNETS, just like the ones used on Permanent Magnet DC Motors.


Bottom line is that if you want to start your own Thread here, you can go ahead and open it on my main link here (https://overunity.com/lueling-magnet-motor/), you open a "New Topic", if you can not, then I will open it for you...

And by no means I am saying not to post here anymore, you are always welcome here, but working on your own project Thread without any noise would be fine...correct?


Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: kolbacict on February 18, 2022, 04:33:11 PM
Quote
I preferably use levers which actuate on small rollers, which reduce friction...to push back and forth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolamite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolamite) ?   ;)
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on February 18, 2022, 05:07:12 PM
I agree! A new thread is started "Luling magnet motor with 3D printed parts".
https://overunity.com/19056/luling-magnet-motor-with-3d-printed-parts-motion-only-bij-permanent-magnets/new/#new (https://overunity.com/19056/luling-magnet-motor-with-3d-printed-parts-motion-only-bij-permanent-magnets/new/#new)


Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 04, 2022, 04:30:49 PM
Hello to All,


I have been working on this Setup for a while by now...and finally my CAD related to the "Pump" or Heart of this mechanical system is completed...this is the SWITCHING MECHANISM.

Now I will proceed to start making each part...


The ACTUATOR and TRIGGERS SYTEM is not shown...why?...because I have several options to be applied, and it FIRST, depends upon the result distance to trigger once the already built parts from the Pump are finished and tested.


Here are the CAD for the Three main positioning points to be set/tested:


1- CENTERED SET, where I show that all rotating/pivoting axis are aligned with a RED Vertical Line, and this is important to make sure the system transfers from this step to ON and OFF very smoothly!!
2- NEUTRALIZATION ON
3- NEUTRALIZATION OFF

The descriptions or SPEC'S are on the NEUTRALIZATION ON Diagram.


A Is the MAIN CENTER LEVER

B Is the REVERSE LEVER, which works opposite (in Angle and Positioning) to Lever A
 
C Is the "C BRACKET LEVER", which also connects on the Left side with the actuator system, and Embraces both levers A & B


#1 is the High Pressure Spring which releases the first short distance to separate magnets easily.


#2 is the Return Spring and both have being explained in detail on previous posts.


#3 is the SWITCHING SPRING, and it is the most important spring on this setup, it travels fro LEVER A to LEVER B, and it must be adjusted properly with correct pressure, plus the lower holding stud also needs to be properly set!
This SWITCHING SPRING pivots from LEFT side of the RED center line to the RIGHT side...so, it depends on this spring adjustment to make the correct fast switching from ON to OFF.
IF you notice, at the CENTERED SET GRAPHIC, this Spring is already passing to the right side of red line...That means that this center positioning is just a PASSING THROUGH STAGE from Right to Left and Viceversa, the Switch NEVER STAYS AT THIS POSTION, it is just to be aligned and set.


#4 are LOW PRESSURE RETURN SPRINGS


#5 are all BRASS ROLLERS and are colored in a brass (orange) color like.




I may be re editing this post many times...to add any important details that I may have missed...




Thanks




Ufopolitics


PD, I am sorry for the bad quality of this graphics...I will try to make them more clear and easier to read as I will make details further on.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 04, 2022, 05:46:28 PM
Hello,


ABOUT THE ROLLERS I AM USING...

Here are a couple of images to show the rollers I am using on my setup...(they are ALL like this)


If you notice they are not regular rollers mounted on a shaft...but they ALL have edges, like a  SPOOL, in order that they roll on the levers borders as well.


I do this in order that levers do NOT SLIDE OFF tracks, as some are set far away from their pivoting points...


All they need is a drop of grease inside and outside their shafts and rolling surfaces.





Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 04, 2022, 07:57:11 PM

The Graphic below is just to show both movements at the same time, in order to see the TRAVEL DISTANCES between INPUT and OUTPUT.


Blue and Red Arrows are the INPUT TRAVEL received by the Actuator-Trigger Levels (not shown here)


The Blue Arrow in a circle is Neutralization ON, and the Red Arrow shows the END TRAVEL, where Neutralization is FULLY OFF.

The success of this System is that the TRIGGER LEVER just need to travel from 2 to 2.5 mm and it would be enough to activate the whole travel of the mechanisms BACK and FORTH...in a very short period of Time !!


Once We achieve that...well...it will run.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on March 06, 2022, 11:58:57 AM
Is there a possibility to share the CAD-files .STEP format or native what application do you use for CAD design?


Looks well thought out but can't see how it works. But maybe that's part of my intelligence. When you have built everything, a video will show you how it works. It will be a huge achievement and pave the way for a unique engine that the world has not yet seen in an open-source setting.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 06, 2022, 06:08:25 PM
Is there a possibility to share the CAD-files .STEP format or native what application do you use for CAD design?


Hello Knovos,


The App that I have used for this particular one is TurboCad, it is a piece of shit program, but easier to adjust scaling and rotations with pretty good accuracy.
However, this CAD is just 2D, as I make  all my 3D CAD's in MAYA 6 (an old one before Alias was  purchased by Autodesk...
I also have AUTOCAD, but I have not taken the native TurboCad files into AutoCad...


I use this CAD to make the patterns to then cut them in Metal (Aluminum) by hand and finished also by hand until they have a perfect fit.


Looks well thought out but can't see how it works. But maybe that's part of my intelligence. When you have built everything, a video will show you how it works. It will be a huge achievement and pave the way for a unique engine that the world has not yet seen in an open-source setting.


Yes, I admit it looks a bit complicated like this...but am sure, once you see it working, it would be understood perfectly well...


Like I have said before...this Concept could be interpreted as a "BROKEN TOGGLE SWITCH"


And it is a "broken toggle switch" just because it would ALWAYS come back, automatically, to the ON Position...no matter how many times you Trigger its actuator, trying to "Turn it OFF"... ;D


So, by a couple of mm of smoothly pushing its trigger-actuator, it will activate a series of mechanisms which will deliver an output travel of around 15 mm, and then immediately, it will "RESET" back to the ON Position.

On another image below, I have added the TRIGGER and ACTUATOR SYSTEM (it is NOT my FINAL Design until I test it on REAL TIME)...so, maybe now you see the whole picture and can understand how it works.


I have separated this whole mechanisms into "Systems" in order to build them ONE AT A TIME, checking that they do their job to my satisfaction...
So, before building the Triggers and Actuators, I must build the Lower Pressure "Pump" where all Three levers are...A, B and C Levers.
Once built, I will have to adjust them in order to close to the MAX its INPUT traveling distance, and SENSITIVITY, without giving me "FALSE TRIGGERINGS" meaning, that it would be so sensitive that it may trigger falsely, just by the vibration when running.


The Center Tension Spring is KEY to adjust its sensitivity, by getting it closer to the red line when set at the ON Position.
This operation is done by changing the positioning of the studs where the spring is mounted...and I may change some configurations once that I build the real parts and set them to work.


I want to make the actuator VERY SENSITIVE and very SMOOTH, while only traveling a very short distance (2-3 mm)...once I get it running, then I will move to a very smal MAGNETIC SWITCHING ACTUATOR set at an UPPER LEVEL, AWAY from the MAIN MAGNETICs where Motor runs...with smaller magnets in repulsion, pushing the levers to trigger.
This will definitively reduce mechanical friction from triggers and actuators to zero physical contact.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 06, 2022, 07:09:55 PM
A GENERAL ADVICE ABOUT THIS BUILD...AND SOME ENGINEERING TIPS


In Engineering DESIGN of complex Mechanical Systems, it is always recommended to brake/separate the whole assembly, THE ENTIRE MACHINE, or ENGINE into "Sub-Systems"...This is done for two main  reasons.


1- To be able to dedicate (In the DESIGN STAGE) to each Sub System a SPECIFIC FUNCTION which is some how attached to the whole system, but runs independently when looking at it isolated.


Example: In a Diesel Common Rail Pump...We almost always have a Small Primary Feed Pump, incorporated to the main Pump Embodiment or Housing, which is in charge to keep a constant -low pressure- fuel feeding to the Pump, but basically used for "Priming" the pump from empty, preventing from self damage.
It is connected to the Main shaft mechanically and Fuel Input to this primary feed small pump, however, its components run as a "Sub System" in order to be taken apart without going into the Main Pump Assembly.


Another more General example: In a Car Engine, We have so many "Sub Systems" that it is very hard to cite them all here...like Cooling System, Electrical System, Lubricating System, Ignition System, Fuel Injection System, Timing System...and so on and on...and on.


2- At the time to DIAGNOSE A FAILURE, it would help Us to go directly to the specified Sub System, which is causing the Engine not to run at all, or running with failures, like stalling...or overheating...etc,etc...since We have dedicated a SPECIFIC FUNCTION to each Sub System.


Now, whenever building a Complex Prototype like this Lüling Motor...We must follow the same Engineering principles above, HOWEVER, when building ANY PROTOTYPE we must have in mind How to make ALL POSSIBLE ADJUSTMENTS in our Build, and applying it to ALL separate Sub Systems.

This would help Us to be able to DIAGNOSE why it is NOT RUNNING?...Where is the issue?, or the malfunction that we need to correct.


If We build it as a WHOLE COMPLEX, ALL ENCLOSED ASSEMBLY set, without Sub systems build separately or be able to take them apart separately, and be able to check each, also separatedly...then it would be very hard for Us to identify where the failure is!!


And so, we end up "disregarding" this build...and maybe, just maybe, we had the solution in our hands...and only a little change of one of our sub systems would have make it work perfectly well.




Hope this help you all in your build, as it will also take frustrations to a more easier to resolve level.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 06, 2022, 07:47:29 PM
AN EXAMPLE OF "SUB-SYSTEMS" IN MY BUILD...


On the image below I have separated two Sub systems, the TRIGGERING SYSTEM and the SWITCHING SYSTEM, by mounting them in Separate Plates and bolted down by Three (3) Phillips Bolts, mounted to the main plate, but making sure I could be able to adjust ANGLES and POSITIONING of EACH Sub System independently BUT  related to the main Magnet Shaft Assembly...


For example, I could move the ENTIRE Triggering System to a closer or further ANGLE, Related to the Actuator Roller Rod, mounted on Disc Assembly...or in many other positioning which will give me different results...And this is a TIMMING ADJUSTMENT to the speed of the Motor...
Since it is mounted on Rollers running on the flat surface of the connecting lever...it gives me a lot of free movement along the CONECTING LEVER surface.

And so, also the Switching System...could also be pivoted entirely to Right or Left, or in an ANGULAR adjustment...in  order to obtain a better result...


Always make sure to MARK a contour around your sub system plate on the main plate, BEFORE ANY ADJUSTMENTS...so you could always  return back to the "reset point" in case you moved it and it worsen the results...




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on March 06, 2022, 07:53:13 PM

Thanks for the wise lessons Ufopolitics. I actually figured out myself to make as many separate components as possible. Because 3D printing takes a long time, this was the main reason, adjustments can now be reprinted quickly instead of large parts that are full of elements that take forever. That last drawing you show there is much clearer. I see a small rod triggering the firing mechanism. Then a whole system of springs and handles is activated without causing drag because it is separate from the turntable.


Even though you use crapy software and do everything custom-made with different machining techniques, I'm still interested in the files even though they are 2D. With 3D printing, there are still many possibilities to make strong components with special plastics. Maybe tweaked here and there.


Maybe I can copy your latest drawing into Autodesk Fusion 360. Basically, everything is there. A high-resolution version would help me a lot with that.


regards,
Knovos
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 06, 2022, 08:17:40 PM
Thanks for the wise lessons Ufopolitics. I actually figured out myself to make as many separate components as possible. Because 3D printing takes a long time, this was the main reason, adjustments can now be reprinted quickly instead of large parts that are full of elements that take forever. That last drawing you show there is much clearer. I see a small rod triggering the firing mechanism. Then a whole system of springs and handles is activated without causing drag because it is separate from the turntable.


Even though you use crapy software and do everything custom-made with different machining techniques, I'm still interested in the files even though they are 2D. With 3D printing, there are still many possibilities to make strong components with special plastics. Maybe tweaked here and there.


Maybe I can copy your latest drawing into Autodesk Fusion 360. Basically, everything is there. A high-resolution version would help me a lot with that.


regards,
Knovos


Hello Knovos,


I saved a copy as DWG (Native AUTOCAD Format) and DXF (Drawing eXchange Format) but it will not let me publish it here, because theey are too large files...


I will try sending it through our mail here on site...or send me your external mail here and I will send it to you.


I can not guarantee how it will open in your AUTOCAD, as I have not tested it yet...
I also build a lot of LAYERS, in order to separate different formats or sub-systems, construction levers, rollers, Neutralization ON and OFF etc,etc...So I can turn OFF or ON Visibility of each layer...


So, I have saved them in those formats above...and it has a warning that says "You have selected a file format that may not support all of TurboCAD 2021's features"


Let me know if it works...but eventually, I will be also working on AUTOCAD for this build...not now though...




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 10, 2022, 05:22:14 PM

OTF (Out To Front) Knife Mechanism



Hello to All,


I am very happy to say that I have found the "perfect mechanism" to build this Engine...it is much simpler to build than the one I have shown before...and yes, Knovos, it could also be made of plastic printed parts... ;D


Of course, some modifications would need to be done from the original mechanism...but the main principle is basically the same...


A very short and smooth triggering, while delivering an output of a greater distance and with much more force, and very fast response!!


So, here is a video, where it is completely taken apart in all components (and there are many more vids like this on YouTube) and explained its main principle.


For our purpose of operation, we need to remove (in our design) the rear "fully retract" Locking System or the Spring Pin...in order that it does not locks in the backward (retracted) position, but returns to front very fast...and then locks only at the front then released with a front trigger mechanism....which would be released in a timely fashion by the Rotor actuator and lever combinations...just a couple of millimiters... 8)




HOW MICROTECH OTF (OUT THE FRONT) KNIVES WORK (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Sr_7bwZd8)




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on March 10, 2022, 07:42:39 PM
Ah, that's a great find! I already found some downloads for 3D printing which can be seen here https://overunity.com/19056/luling-magnet-motor-with-3d-printed-parts-motion-only-bij-permanent-magnets/new/#new


Here's a Solid Works version found on Grabcad https://grabcad.com/library/microtech-ultratech-otf-automatic-knife-1/details?folder_id=10280434


Let's hope we can make it work.


regards,
Knovos.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 10, 2022, 09:42:14 PM
Hello Knovos,


Yes, I think so...plus if we do it right, I am sure it will run.


Here I will show a quick drawing of one of the many ways that it could be figured out ...And built


I have set it here as a Piston-Cylinder embodiment, in a Section (cut) view to see all inner components.


TOP IMAGE the Yellow Piston has traveled all the way out, and locked by Red Front Lever. Note I have set anther locking lever in the back.
There are Two Blue End Caps, and are set in place by the two tension springs, upper and lower. These Two Blue End Caps can easily slide inside-out of Green Cylinder...but adding tension to springs when expanded outwards.


LOWER IMAGE the Yellow Piston has traveled all the way back, and locked by the rear red lever (Red Levers are anchored at main setup plate)


Note Blue End Caps move, according to piston positioning-lock


The main function is that piston hits and pushes the end caps outwards, extending spring (tension) until it locks in place at both positions.




However, for our application, we do NOT need the Yellow Piston to lock at the end position (retracted) when it hits the rear Blue End Cap...but just to gain a great bounce force to go forward again and lock ONLY at the front red lever...where we will set the triggering actuated by the Rotor Actuator.




We could use the rear locking lever to stop Rotor, by holding Piston retracted.


And of course, it could also be built as is the knife, in a flat rectangular housing...whichever form would be better to be built...




Regards




Ufopolitics



Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 11, 2022, 03:40:18 PM
Hello,

Some Flaws I see on this design, that need to be corrected in order to work beautifully in our application:


This design is not conceived to work at high speeds of ON-OFF fast sequences...and I will point the main two that we need to correct.


1- If the Blade or Piston, falls in the middle between both locking systems, it will just "float" freely, doing nothing, no push, no pull.
2- The Locking or Latch System needs to be designed more robust, in order to ALWAYS catch, even at very high speeds.


What I like about this design is:


The simplicity to be built and the main principle:


The principle is simple, the spring(s) are always on some tension (such "always" tension, IMO, we should be able to adjust it for different stress tests), and just by traveling a short distance, adding a bit more tension until unlocking Piston or Blade, causing a very fast displacement of a much longer distance and greater force in either direction.


But, like I wrote above, We need to improve some mechanisms involved (1 & 2) in order that it works without failure at very high speeds.


So, I am going to build it separate from what I already have, as a complete system, and make a Testing Platform where it will show its performance at higher speeds.


My concern is that we could get the motor started at lower strokes, but once it starts gaining speed...it will fail and drop speed or stop abruptly because of these flaws.


Or Motor will start a few turns and stall...




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 13, 2022, 09:27:45 PM
Hello,


I finally finished making my 2D Model of the OTC Piston, NOW I am very happy with the final result, so  I will proceed to build it in 3D and set animation, etc,etc...I love it!!

I made it in order to be easily taken apart and reassemble...just a few screws so far.


I will also add some rubber or plastic washers to deaden sound...but that would be at the end though...


Let me explain some important setup before proceeding to build, even in CAD...


There are TWO WAYS to make this piston work on our build:


1- Shaft Normally Inwards or Retracted and locked


2- Shaft Normally Outwards or Extruded and locked.


For the purposes of this design, as I have also used on my originally Pneumatic setup, I have chosen #1, or Shaft Normally Retracted (in my video setup, pneumatic piston is retracted by Spring Action...so when air valve opens air flow, it pushes Piston outwards.


Now, the way that you will need to set up this Normally Closed, is by Piston Pushing Outwards to SET NEUTRALIZATION OFF, or separating Attract Magnet or spreading Attraction Gap, once actuated by Rotor Rod or Roller...then retracting Piston back In.


This arrangement should work beautifully, it may need some adjustments, as spring tension, or Locking Latch adjustment or shape modification...in  order to catch properly at high speeds...


I have added an image of what I am working on...
The red bracket-trigger lever is just shown for demo purposes...


As I have also added a Cut View of the Front View, mainly in order to see the Blue Part shape to allow to be bolted to main outer frame as to allows Springs to pass by.


-This Blue piece could be made to house Two, Three or Four Springs, by changing its shape...


-The Front and Rear Golden thick Discs slide freely inside outer frame INNER WALLS and are attached to Springs, sanwhiched between Blue Piece-Cylinder...as the Piston "bangs" them back and forth (And here is where I want to insert the plastic washers to deaden sound)


The rear Golden Disc, I have added a Shaft to make it more precise on its back-forth movement...PLUS, if You notice the Red Trigger pass by it...well, I will have to add a Square Hole on the Disc to allow red lever to go through and be able to go up-down freely...not seen here but will be able to notice on 3D Graphics.


It is very important to choose the right springs for this...I have ordered the original, 304 Steel springs from original UT (UltraTech) knife...as this have perfect measurements for my purpose and size...they are cheap and easy available on EBAY...


They are 2.5 mm of circle, lenght is 44 mm and wire is 0.5 mm.


All these parts are pretty easy to make in a small Lathe, and finished in a small CNC Milling Machine...point here is that they need to be built very accurately, so they slide in-out whitout much restriction...


I like the Piston Shaped Design just because it can easily be mounted and adjusted in this design, as it can also be checked and corrected outside the setup...






Regards




Ufopolitics


P.D: I will build the Main Piston in Steel, and the Drum part is around 19 mm Diameter...so it will also serve as a Counter weight to assist adding force to every stroke.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on March 13, 2022, 10:11:29 PM
Wow, that is looking very good.
Very simple which is always the best design.
I don't see yet how the piston comes back, are the springs pushing and pulling?
I will try this!


regards,
Knovos
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 13, 2022, 10:18:37 PM
Wow, that is looking very good.
Very simple which is always the best design.
I don't see yet how the piston comes back, are the springs pushing and pulling?
I will try this!


regards,
Knovos


Thanks Knovos,


Yes, in this  image the Piston is backwards, pushing the rear gold disc and with added tension to Springs and locked, when you release the red trigger downwards, it releases piston and rear gold plate under spring tension PUSHES Piston forward...until gold disc stops at Blue center piece, but Piston is being ejected forward to then hit the front Gold Disc which adds more tension to spring...causing Piston to BOUNCE BACKWARDS in a matter of milliseconds...


You need to realize we setup these springs with an already existing Tension , not loose, so they do not need to start from zero...all this design does is to add more tension that what it is already being set.




Regards




Ufopolitics



Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 14, 2022, 12:27:12 AM
Hello,


Here is another image, showing Piston retracted as previously shown, and then by releasing latch (Lock) Piston is propulsed forwards...
FIG 2 is actually a very short timed image that you see Piston extending spring by means of Brass, Gold Plate...as it Immediately Bounces back.




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 17, 2022, 06:08:21 PM

Hello to All,



Working on the 3D Model...


This would be what the Double Action OTF Piston look like...not finished yet...


On this Software (MAYA) I will be able to Animate the Strokes, the stretching of Springs and run the Frame rate very precisely...for my next video purposes

But, basically, I  wanted to build it in 3D before starting to Lathe Machine, CNC, Drill, Cut...grind  etc,etc...on  the Shop in  order to have every angle covered while simulating it running.


Also, and mainly...The Latch-Locking System (not shown here, still working on it)...I want to make it here first, articulate it (pivot) and see all the better ways to build it more effectively...


I am very confident this setup will work beautifully...and I could even dare to  say it would work better than the previous Pneumatic Piston...




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 17, 2022, 06:30:05 PM

Hello,

One main thing that I have been thinking about are the Front and Rear Plates configuration...while going over the Physics which rule this device...


And then realize that these two plates could NOT be built too heavy...so, on the previous Graphic I have them with Brass color and pretty thick (they look like Training Weights...LOL)...then make it all work out in my mind...


Fact is, IF the plates are too heavy, they will kill the Piston Weight Inertia Forces at Impact with Plates before stretching the spring the required distance...


So, I will make them in Aluminum, and may insert a small Brass Sleeve at their center...later on.


Also, I will build these Plates in order their outer surface also slide on the inner surface of the Outer Housing...Like shown on previous Graph, for Plates to work more stable as less stress on main Piston Shaft...since they will be much more lighter.




This Piston could be sealed and work with a bit of Oil inside without leaking...






Just thinking out loud... ;D




Regards




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: RhineX on March 28, 2022, 05:27:21 AM
Hello,Ufopolitics

I watched your video. I think the principle you showed is similar to the 1975 J. William putt patent us3992132. I hope it can be helpful to you :)
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 30, 2022, 05:59:34 PM
Hello,Ufopolitics

I watched your video. I think the principle you showed is similar to the 1975 J. William putt patent us3992132. I hope it can be helpful to you :)


WOW RhineX!!


What an incredible find!!


Nice, I will go over that Patent in detail.


I noticed he is using both types, attract and repulse...


very interesting!


Many thanks




Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on March 30, 2022, 06:46:17 PM
ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM- ABSTRACT  (PAT # 3992132 )




Patent Link here (https://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=3992132.PN.&OS=PN/3992132&RS=PN/3992132)


Relative motion is provided between a set of primary magnets positioned along a path of relative motion, and a set of secondary magnets positioned along the path of motion to confront the primary magnets. Such motion causes the primary magnets to displace the secondary magnets in directions transverse to the path. Power output means are driven by transverse displacement of the secondary magnets.

The polarities of the magnets are such that the forces of magnetic attraction in one direction parallel to the path are substantially equal to the forces of magnetic repulsion in the opposite direction parallel to the path, whereby a minimum of energy is required to produce said relative motion.


This invention relates to an energy conversion system wherein primary motion in a given path produces secondary motion in a direction transverse to the given path. It has long been known that primary motion in a given path may produce secondary motion in a transverse direction by means of mechanical components such as cams, levers, gears and other simple mechanical movements either used alone or in combination with each other. These prior systems have required physical contact between relatively movable elements and thus have involved substantial energy losses due to the friction which is inherent in such contact.


The present invention is characterised in one respect by the fact that there is no physical contact between the relatively movable elements. This result is achieved by the use of relatively movable sets of magnets, one set being movable transversely to the path of relative movement. Another aspect of the invention involves the balancing of the magnetic forces of attraction and repulsion. This is achieved by having a plurality of interconnected primary magnets with polarities which coact with the polarities of the transversely movable secondary magnets so that the forces of magnetic attraction in one direction parallel to the given path of relative movement are substantially equal to the forces of magnetic repulsion in the opposite direction parallel to the given path. This arrangement results in a minimization of the energy required to produce relative movement in the given path between the primary and secondary magnets.


According to the present invention, a set of primary magnets are disposed along an endless path. A set of secondary magnets are also disposed along the path, each being movable in a direction transverse to the path. Drive means are provided for producing relative movement between the primary and secondary magnets along the endless path so that each primary magnet relatively moves successively into alignment with the secondary magnets, thereby producing transverse movement of the secondary magnets. Power-output means are operated by this transverse movement of the secondary magnets. The polarities of the magnets are such that the forces of magnetic attraction in one direction parallel to the endless path are substantially equal to the forces of magnetic repulsion in the opposite direction parallel to the endless path, whereby magnetic forces impose no substantial resistance to relative movement of the magnets in their endless path. In the preferred embodiment of the invention which is illustrated herein, the endless path is circular, all of the primary magnet means being fixed with respect to each other and supported by a common rotary shaft. The primary magnets all have the same polarity in the given path. The secondary magnets, proceeding along the given path, are of alternating polarities, so that a primary magnet during its movement will alternately attract and repel successive secondary magnets. It is also preferred that the power output means be fluid pumps connected to each of the secondary magnets to create fluid pressure in response to the transverse movement of the secondary magnets.

These fluid pumps are connected together so as to provide an output of pressurized fluid which may be stored under pressure, used when desired to drive a fluid-operated motor and then recirculated through a reservoir to the individual pump means for each of the secondary magnets. A primary utility for this invention is in the propulsion of land vehicles such as automobiles, trucks, rail vehicles and the like. Individual hydraulic motors may be provided for each drive wheel in order to achieve the known advantages of excellent accelleration and precisely controllable decelleration to minimize the use of the vehicle brakes.
Even though Sir Williams does not mentions the word "Neutralization" in the whole patent as  Lüling does...just read my bold out sentence above, where he specifies that both forces (Attract & Repulse) are "substantially equal"... ;)


He has put together a multiple pumps system which works at alternate piston positioning, so while one sucks in, other pumps out...


However, Sir William is not claiming to be a self motional Motor, as it requires a second Motor to run the rotor, preferably, of course, to use a Hydraulic Motor (as I would also add a Pneumatic Motor),  since we already have a multiple Pumping System with Input-Output being a closed system as this Prime Mover could feed from the Pressurized Tanks... ;D




Excellent find RhineX!!




Thanks






Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on April 04, 2022, 04:07:20 PM
@ Only for Builders working on my Lüling concept:


Recently I suggested the use of a Piston assembly, based on the OTF Knife tech...and I did some drawings, as Knovos did as well...
I finally received a couple of these knifes...and experimented with them a lot...took them apart, replaced the springs, modified some other ways,  etc,etc...


I want to inform here, that it will not work if we just use the Inertia Forces to push/pull magnet mechanisms.

On the knife, springs only work for a short distance, while piston is fired based on inertia, back and forth...but that "free travel" by inertia, no matter how heavy your piston is, does not develop the required forces we need, since distance we need is so small...and even knife distance, being greater, does not make it either.

So, the solution should be that piston is ejected and retracted by CONSTANT SPRING DOBLE ACTION acting at all times on Piston, and so, being able to adjust these pressures, back and forth.

I am working on a "Reinforced Design version" where this requirements are considered.

Please, do not think I am "away" from, or has forgotten this building Thread at all, just because of working on another project here...




Regards






Ufopolitics
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: knovos on April 04, 2022, 08:12:48 PM
I'm still on this project in my own thread "Luling magnet motor with 3D printed parts".
I finally got my pressure meter, so I can now do more based on values instead of trial and error;-) I had printed a couple of OTFs but I couldn't figure out how to apply this mechanism, so I ran away from it.
Title: Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
Post by: Ufopolitics on August 22, 2022, 10:17:19 PM
Hello to All,

Well, did you All think I left or abandon this project?

Wrong!!...and no matter if I reach OU in my other project...this Magnet Motor is also my priority... ;)

I have been working on it...basically hand made sketches...and mind 3D imagination, probably at all times...

The Movement we are all looking for is very clear...We need a soft, smooth triggering of a very short distance, while actuating a bigger distance with much more stronger forces...and acting very fast, between back-forth movements!!

So, here is my newest proposal, it took me a while to get here:

It is based mainly on Two Main "twin" springs, meaning, exactly the same size, strength, and traveling distance-forces, pivoting a center "T" Bracket.

Then a Center Triggering mechanism, also spring actuated, but only on one direction.

All Three springs would be regulating its pressures by an adjusting nut.

In the Neutral or Center positioning, (FIG1) we adjust both twin springs pressures equally, to the point they will not pivot either way (right or left), meaning, they both would be pretty equalized.

Then we test to move center "trigger" spring assembly just a bit...to see which is the "tendency"...is it right or left?...and so, we do this test a few times.

If we have a LEFT tendency of T Bracket (Neutralization ON), then we leave it like that...

If NOT, but it turns out "too stabilized" that it could go either way...then we give a second tightening to Right Spring, in order to amplify its force, just a bit more than Left Side Spring.

We want the "T" bracket to always return to LEFT or Neutral Positioning, after triggering to the Right (Neutralization OFF) with just a minimal push of the lower ball at CENTER Trigger Spring Assembly.

The Center Triggering Spring Assembly will "add" Forces to either side where it leans towards, assisting the spring nearest to its side.

You could add Arrows as Vectors of Forces to see the whole thing better.

The Trigger rollers traveling full distance is 4 mm...but it should trigger ON at 2.5 to 3.0 mm.


The Trigger Point is shown on FIG1, the bottom roller, as it reads "Trigger Point" with an arrow to the roller.

I will be building this mechanism separatedly, but in real measurements, so all I need to do, is bolt it on to the Motor platform.

Regards

Ufopolitics