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Author Topic: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics  (Read 9815 times)

Offline forest

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2022, 08:34:31 PM »
Fully mechanical system looks good to me, pneumatic motor - well you should explain how you want to sustain air pressure without expending energy. Long time ago I posted old patent with fully rotational magnetic motor fully mechanical system using ratchet device. Sorry, I don't know patent number , but would try to find it if you are interested.

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2022, 09:00:54 PM »
Fully mechanical system looks good to me, pneumatic motor - well you should explain how you want to sustain air pressure without expending energy. Long time ago I posted old patent with fully rotational magnetic motor fully mechanical system using ratchet device. Sorry, I don't know patent number , but would try to find it if you are interested.


Thanks Forest,


I am working currently on a fully mechanical motor...and I know it will be finished in a couple of weeks...it is for demonstration purposes that it can be done.
Magnets have incredible Energy, We just have not being able to harness it ...yet.


The Pneumatic System could work in a closed circuit, where exhaust from valves and pistons are collected to a lower pressure tank, then through a purge pump it goes back to main pressurized tank.


Also a small compressor could be used as the "purge pump"

Pneumatics Closed Systems do exists, basically when they work on dirty environments or in Hospitals, where the air should be kept pure and clean...so we do not have to "invent them"...


I believe (and I will confirm this, once I finish my mechanical setup) that Lüling had a fully mechanical motor built, as he utilized pressurized air to accelerate, decelerate as maybe Hydraulics as well to set reverse rotation drive...


Yes please, I would like to see that magnet motor Patent using ratchet device...if you could find it...thanks!!


My System will work based on Levers and Springs...High and Low mechanical pressure system...and not that complicated...




Cheers




Ufopolitics

Offline forest

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2022, 04:22:10 PM »
Ok, I found it.

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2022, 04:45:53 PM »
Ok, I found it.


Thanks Forest!!

Unbelievable!!, a Patent from 1913-1914...A Mechanical Magnet Motor, self running, just a little push and starts...


It uses attraction to run, based on steel plates arc, or Ramp actuated on and off by the mechanical ratchet system...pretty simple.


It is not the same principle as I am working on, but it is very interesting.


I just went over the explanation and graphics real quick...I will do a slow reading later on.




But many thanks Forest!!




Cheers






Ufopolitics




Offline knovos

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2022, 09:36:48 PM »
I'm still working on my mechanical ideas for the Luling motor but want to show up here when I have something useful. Showing drawings or animations that might work ar often a kind of pollution ;D  Amazing that old paper from 1913! Maybe this was an inspiration for Luling.

Offline knovos

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2022, 09:57:32 PM »

Haven't had any success with finding a fast push mechanism yet. The attempts I've made didn't work at all. I am not an engineer more a maker so I lack knowledge of what systems there are in the world. I did come across a video channel where someone shows a huge amount of mechanical methods. Perhaps an inspiration for all those who want to work on this system. https://www.youtube.com/c/KINGMECHANICALOFFICIAL
There must be something there that is useful.

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2022, 03:59:41 PM »
Haven't had any success with finding a fast push mechanism yet. The attempts I've made didn't work at all. I am not an engineer more a maker so I lack knowledge of what systems there are in the world. I did come across a video channel where someone shows a huge amount of mechanical methods. Perhaps an inspiration for all those who want to work on this system. https://www.youtube.com/c/KINGMECHANICALOFFICIAL
There must be something there that is useful.


Hello Knovos,


Well, you are not going to find any mechanisms which could be applied as they are built and "ready to go on"...you will have to use them just to learn how they work first.


Most Toggle switches (cut off switches) require a pretty strong push, where you load a spring, until it discharges into the contact...not good.
You will need to balance and modify the spring and the travel distance to make it more "sensitive"...without a lot of effort to actuate it.


The switch we are looking for, does not exists in a mechanical fashion...why?


Imagine a switch is OFF, and you turn it slightly and it goes to the ON Position BUT, right away it RETURNS back to OFF by itself?...so you will never be able to keep it at the ON position...and exactly that is what we are looking for.


I have gone through a few (dozens) of possibilities...and do not work the way I want to...


All the knowledge you will need is about Levers and its laws...the different type of Levers Classes...
I preferably use levers which actuate on small rollers, which reduce friction...to push back and forth.


Also, you will need to imagine your switching mechanism at very high speeds...and most toggle switches are not design to do that...but once in a while...


For simplicity in Design and understanding, I have divided my switching mechanism into three parts:


1- High Pressure side: in charge to apply two different pressures with Two different mechanisms:

A- Pressure Spring actuator to release attract magnet that works for like only two millimmiters.
B- Pressure Spring to Return Magnet back to a "reset" position. (it only starts charging at the very end of travel distance)
(There is a loose travel range in between both Pressures.)


2- The Lower Pressure Switching Pump or "Heart" : Is in charge to switch back and forth in between that loose travel range between High Pressures.


I built this with Three small levers and rollers...all aligned (rotating) within the same axis.


1-A Center Actuator Lever which pivots magnet track, back and forth.
2-A bottom Reverse Lever (connected to #1) and which travels opposed to #1, Center actuator.
3-A bigger "C" Type of lever bracket, embracing both #1 & #2, which actuates #1 back and forth on higher part...
I used a small Tension Spring in between #1 & #2 levers, which swaps from left to right, connected on the higher part of #1 and the lowest of #2 Reverse lever, this spring generates the fast switching defining positions between Right-Left.
Then Sensitivity could be adjusted by tilting closer to spring actuation-trigger through a screw-nut bracket.


The C Bracket is what connects to the triggering part...


2- The Trigger System, which simulates what the air valve and rod does...and it is just the actuating rod and a cam lever which actuates other Transfer levers until it reaches the "C" Bracket-Lever #3 at the "Pump"...


When the rotor actuates all these mechanisms blend together in Sinchronicity...


I have spend Days, Months, in just designing each system here, first on CAD, then on real build...and I am still working now on the CAD actuator part...


I have finished the High Pressure System already, in CAD and building it on the Prototype...so far it is giving me the output I am after.


Every spring, every lever, must be able to be adjusted their pressures as their distance traveling ranges...until you find the right settings.


I have ordered a small CNC-Mill Tool to give the right finishing to all the main pump parts...built in Aluminum.
Also I just got a Vertical mini press CNC-Mill operation to adapt on my Lathe...


I will tell you, you need patience my friend...lots of...


PD: This is a Reciprocating System, not only at magnet back and forth, but all mechanisms must work aligned as a small engine, where their timing is very accurate.


Magnet executes a pressure force, and a much lower required force actuator will amplify that Mechanical Input into the back-forth operation of a longer distance.


This is exactly an Action-Reaction System, where Magnet Force (Action) needs to be always higher than Reaction (your full mechanism) to keep a constant rotation.




Regards




Ufopolitics
« Last Edit: February 17, 2022, 08:02:25 PM by Ufopolitics »

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2022, 04:32:28 PM »
Some counseling when working on CAD Software...


I always first start with simple 2D CAD, using real scale or 1:1 ratio, in mm.


I take a pic (top view, of course) of my existing prototype and take it to the CAD as a Background image, so all the existing parts are in scale with the ones I will build...

First all my levers are made with simple "poly lines" where I set the right pivoting or center of rotation...plus their travel ends points.
I work with high accuracy and not having any "cross hair lines" not aligned properly at centers...where multiple parts align...this will avoid giving you wrong results, and thinking it is right!
Then I shape my parts around those bracket poly lines with CV Curves tool...once working right, I get all poly lines into a Layer and turn off visibility...so only all parts contour are revealed...


Then I add animation first on 2D Curves of all parts, where all mechanisms start coming alive...


I print a 1:1 2D plan and cut off all my Patterns of every part...then take it to the shop...and cut them off out of a thick plate (1/2 inch) of aluminum...


But first, you need to make sure it works the way you want in your animated CAD Software...before yo start making parts.


The last thing I do, is to take it to a 3D CAD Software and it is basically to illustrate for my videos...




Regards




Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2022, 04:57:24 PM »
Before, I wrote:


Quote
1-High Pressure side: in charge to apply two different pressures with Two different mechanisms:


A- Pressure Spring actuator to release attract magnet that works for like only two millimmiters.


B- Pressure Spring to Return Magnet back to a "reset" position. (it only starts charging at the very end of travel distance)(There is a loose travel range in between both Pressures.)


I want to specify that both pressure springs, A & B work on separate axis, one axis per pressure spring, and NOT on the same axis or shaft where magnet pivots back and forth!
I have used same shaft as magnet to set high force springs and it does NOT work...why?
It restricts all the moving distances from magnet...even when spring is compressed, it still uses a space which contrains traveling of magnet.
When you set springs in different shafts or axis, there is plenty of room for magnet to travel back and forth.
Remember, this High Pressure Springs only work at the beggining and end of a FREE travel...which is much longer than the springs actuation.

About the magnet separator spring lever-mechanism, the spring is NEVER allowed to fully decompress!!...but only a few mm, (adjustable) that is all required so magnet could be moved easily with just one finger...back and forth.




Hope all this explanations will help you start putting together your CAD Designs...




Good luck






Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2022, 06:20:37 PM »
Related: High Pressure System


I just hate not to provide Graphics and Images about all that I have written before...so, here it is... As am sure, now, you all will have an idea of what I am talking about... :)


Like I wrote before...Pressure 1 & 2 Springs are mounted on separate shafts, in order they actuate independent of each other and whenever it is required to, depending on the retracting magnet positioning.


If you notice I have pointed in Yellow Lines and small arrows, the Gaps of loose distances they operate without any force applied.


Notice Rotor-Stator Magnets are at closest gap and engaged in attraction max travel.


Notice the very small gap (around 2 mm) that the Magnet release spring works on...


The return spring at this positioning as shown, is completely decompressed, it only compresses at the very end of magnet traveling, and basically, at slow motion it will not work effectively...
Only at high speed retraction from magnet shaft, is when this spring will BOUNCE BACK (RETURN) the whole assembly back to Neutral Positioning in milli seconds.




Regards




Ufopolitics

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2022, 08:04:56 PM »
Hello,




Here is another image of the High Pressure System, but now I have pulled the attract magnet with just one hand by pulling the knob to the right.


Notice previous small gap from Magnet release Spring is closed now, it already did its job for like 2mm of travel to force magnet out.


The only pressure I am feeling here now, is from the return spring assembly, (Note the loose gap on the RETURN SPRING is zero now) which is trying to return magnet shaft forward, towards rotor.


Like I wrote before, this return spring works FULLY at CONTINUOUS AND FAST RETRACTION during operation of High speed rotation from Rotor.

Offline knovos

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2022, 08:29:18 PM »
Thank you for your very detailed explanation. Looking at the picture you are not far from a solution. It's hard for me to understand how everything works. It's really going in the direction of advanced engineering, I fully understand the need for this, eventually, we want to build a machine that will run for 24-7 months and only stop for maintenance. I think this is all too difficult for the average maker. My hopes were based on a simpler solution and 3D printing everything except for some bearings, shafts, nuts, and bolts. The big advantage of this is that the files can be shared worldwide and can be put together by someone who does not have a high technical level. Let me continue with that version. So the less reliable plastic version, but a device that works. If only something like this can be achieved then each subsequent version will get better. When it comes to 3D printing, it is impossible to print plastic parts similar to those made in metal. I have patience. Let's hope more people join in and use their engineering skills to make as many of these machines as possible.

Offline Ufopolitics

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2022, 02:50:06 PM »
Hi Knovos,


My pleasure, and Yes, I know it will work...it is a long path, still with all knowledge, skills and tooling and equipments.
As I understand what you are saying, building a plastic parts motor will end up in a Magnetic Perpetual Toy...
But it is fine, as you said, it will prove a concept that has been considered as "an impossible" for too long.


What I want to achieve is a reliable and useful magnetic engine, which could be scaled up to any size and applied to different fields of usage.
At the same token, it will also prove that concept but "skyhigh"...
Even the Lüling Motor we all saw on the 1966 video is not ready to be mounted on a passenger vehicle...it simply will not work.
A Motor that goes at 290 RPM's is not sufficient to move a passenger car, it needs to develop at least 2500-3000 RPM's max.


However, if you like, I will help you build your motor, simple, with 3D Files for a 3D Printer which could be spread world wide...


There are only TWO BASIC WAYS to Turn Off Neutralization of Magnetic Forces.


1- To weaken the Attraction side, so the Motor will propulse (run) by Repulsion side (the one I have built and will make fully mechanical.)
2- To weaken the Repulsion side, and Motor will run based on the Attraction Forces (which is the type that Lüling showed us on video)


The #2 is easier to build and succeed, however, it is much weaker and slower than #1...why?


Because it uses steel arc plate to weaken the repulsion side, as also to provide an attraction "ramp" for impulse.


The Steel Arc that approaches the Repulsion Gap in Lüling Motor is in charge to "kill" the repulsion effect, so Attraction Forces will gain maximum strength at a certain timing.


The Two approaches are 180º opposite as also the timing to interact and so on...


Magnet attraction to Steel will never, ever, be as strong as between Magnet to Magnet Interactions. And, as a matter of fact, steel will always add a "drag" to the motor spin, reason why it would run slower and weaker.


The Geometry of the Magnets to use for a better performance in #2 setup are ARCS MAGNETS, NOT cubes.
Attraction Field works better with ARC SHAPED MAGNETS, just like the ones used on Permanent Magnet DC Motors.


Bottom line is that if you want to start your own Thread here, you can go ahead and open it on my main link here, you open a "New Topic", if you can not, then I will open it for you...

And by no means I am saying not to post here anymore, you are always welcome here, but working on your own project Thread without any noise would be fine...correct?


Regards




Ufopolitics

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2022, 04:33:11 PM »
Quote
I preferably use levers which actuate on small rollers, which reduce friction...to push back and forth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolamite ?   ;)

Offline knovos

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Re: Lüling magnet motor by Ufopolitics
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2022, 05:07:12 PM »
I agree! A new thread is started "Luling magnet motor with 3D printed parts".
https://overunity.com/19056/luling-magnet-motor-with-3d-printed-parts-motion-only-bij-permanent-magnets/new/#new