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Author Topic: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water  (Read 11249 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2022, 07:06:25 PM »
Russ
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2863499A/en


Snip ( note this is with “A” suffix on patent number)
 “We do not understand fully the physics of the action that takes place within the burner, but it is our belief that the high velocity of movement through the burner and the high temperature of the superheated steam causes the water molecules in the steam to break down into their hydrogen and oxygen atoms which aids hydrogenation of the fuel by combining the hydrogen atoms with the carbon atoms of the fuel and utilizing the oxygen to aid combustion.””
End snip


Also this patent “2863499 “A”
Mentions minimum 50% less oil
Much cleaner and cooler ( and smaller outlet)
1958 ?

Lots to look through…
Thanks
BTW
If Original poster here wishes ( prefers adhering to low temp thermolysis of water topic ?


Another thread might be needed ?
Or we could use one of your old threads ( water fuel ?

Respectfully
Chet K


Edit for comment below
Furnace is claimed (Russ wrote previous page ) to run on water thermolysis ( no oil) after certain point .
Also Lanca forwarded a link ( have to look through a bit more)
http://www.rexresearch.com/cottell/cottell.htm




« Last Edit: December 18, 2022, 03:32:55 AM by ramset »

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2022, 11:02:26 PM »
Hello colleagues!
I assume that the high-temperature addition of water to carbon fuels is not relevant to this topic.
Probably, when burning fuel with water, more heated gas is obtained, but at a lower temperature. When fuel is burned without water, less gas is produced, but at a higher temperature. Heat transfer from a larger volume of gas to the consumer looks more efficient.
Example:
 The efficiency of the steam locomotive is only 6%.
If we somehow increase the efficiency of heat transfer from the fire to the boiler by 2 times, then the overall efficiency is likely to be 12% or less.
But where is free energy or overunity?
https://agriculture.vermont.gov/weights-measures/firewood/quick-guide-buying-firewood

Offline ramset

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2022, 08:11:25 PM »
14 fold Sound ( frequency ?) driven enhancement of standard water electrolysis from Australia ?
Shared by member Paul R

https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4409.msg102777;topicseen#msg102777


Sorry for off topic ( a bit ?)
So many experiments in this thread !


Respectfully
Chet K

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #48 on: December 26, 2022, 05:51:49 AM »
Not so long ago, I did some experiments to produce hydrogen using ultrasound.
For example:
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 15 kHz
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 15 kHz together with electric field 50 MHz
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 15 kHz, together with electric field 50 MHz and direct current electrolysis

- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 22 kHz
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 22 kHz together with electric field 50 MHz
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 22 kHz, together with electric field 50 MHz and direct current electrolysis

- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 1.6 MHz
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 1.6 MHz, together with electric field 50 MHz
- suspension of zeolite in water and ultrasound 1.6 MHz, together with electric field 50 MHz and direct current electrolysis

Unfortunately, in my experiments, the yield of hydrogen in all cases was very insignificant, or additional factors, ultrasound and radio frequency, had little effect. :(

A very small yield of hydrogen was observed in the lowest frequency version of 15 kHz. It does not depend on other factors. But this needs to be verified. Practically not useful.

At higher ultrasonic frequencies, the hydrogen yield was near zero. With additional electrolysis by direct current, the influence of ultrasound or high-frequency electric field was not noticed.

Exception:
- a slight increase in the yield of hydrogen due to heating of the liquid during electrolysis with direct current. The current also increases when the electrolyte is heated.

Visible issue:
- dispersed particles of zeolite or lime in water strongly reduce ultrasonic cavitation.

Using a of a small mechanical single-cylinder air pump to create dynamically changes of pressure and vacuum also did not give positive results.

Do not forget, the static version, described in the topic, is quite efficient:

https://overunity.com/18865/low-temperature-catalytic-thermolysis-of-water/msg569182/#msg569182

 Not overunity, but working system.

I suppose that a large range of dynamic changes in pressure and temperature is needed.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 11:40:51 AM by Sergh »

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2023, 10:03:23 AM »
Quote
unexpected formation of hydrogen by sonication of catalytic test reactions containing water–alcohol mixtures...

The current report is based on our observation of irreproducible hydrogen evolution data during screening studies of heterogeneous metal oxide semiconductor HER studies. We noted that during sample preparation, our samples were sonicated for a few minutes in deaerated H2O/alcohol (8:2, v/v) (alcohol = ethanol or methanol) to ensure homogeneous dispersion. While analyzing the possible sources of error, we performed a blank reference experiment where the pure, catalyst-free solvent was sonicated (but not irradiated), and we observed the formation of hydrogen by headspace gas chromatography. We followed the hydrogen evolution of this sample over time...After ruling out any other source of hydrogen (e.g., glassware contamination, GC malfunction, etc.), the only remaining explanation was that H2 is formed by sonication. This was supported by literature analysis, which showed that there are a few reports discussing the phenomenon; however, there are no systematic studies of the amounts of hydrogen produced depending on the sonication conditions.

...We have mentioned several times that we note an increase of hydrogen concentration in the headspace of the reaction vessel even after sonication has finished;... In more detail, we have noted that if the mixture is stirred after sonication, the amount of hydrogen in the headspace increases quickly and stabilizes after ∼2 h ... When the mixtures are not stirred, the hydrogen concentration in the gas phase increases at much smaller rates and follows a linear trend, which does not reach a plateau even after 7 h ... To the best of our knowledge, this “delayed sonication effect” has not been reported yet. Based on our initial experiments, we suggest that this is due to slow (without stirring) or fast (with stirring) diffusion of hydrogen from the liquid to the gas phase.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsomega.0c03110

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2023, 09:36:49 AM »
Brief summary of what has been done in the past 2 months:

An attempt to produce hydrogen by cavitation in a suspension of zeolite powder in water:

    1. Initially, it was planned to use a small gear pump for powerful low-frequency cavitation.
   
    The process of cavitation with water pump similar to cavitation on this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dd6AlyOnfc

The small hydraulic oil pump I purchased is driven by a 200 watt electric motor. Previously used to move the dental chair. According to the seller, the pump is capable of creating a pressure of more than 20 atmospheres.
But even with clean water, the pump could not work. The bronze bushings that act as bearings in it, in the absence of oil, axes of the gears stick to the steel  after a few seconds of rotation at full speed.

I have purchased gear pumps of several other types, but they also have bronze bushing bearings. It seems to be said that there are some gear pumps with bearings made of aluminum alloys or even plastic, but I have not found any yet. Plastic gear pumps with a low-voltage motor, according to reviews, do not create a sufficiently high pressure.

    2. Plunger pumps for coffee machines, vibration solenoid pumps etc..

    What is plunger pumps for coffee machines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9KGunmnLSI

Two such plunger pumps create a pressure of more than 15 atmospheres without a safety valve. One creates pressure up to 3 atmospheres, but a large flow of water.

The one other creates a pressure of more than 25 atmospheres, but a small flow. I used this pump for testing.
I blocked the inlet and exit with valves, similarly to the video about cavitation, the link to which was at the beginning.
The inlet pressure drops to a significant vacuum. In a transparent tube, you can see how water boils at a temperature of 15 degrees Celsius.
Water with zeolite powder passes in a circle through the storage tank. From the storage tank, the resulting gas was pumped into a tank with a hydrogen sensor.
The amount of water passing through the storage tank during cavitation, i.e. with almost closed valves, very small, a couple of drops per second.
No significant production of hydrogen was found in this variant. The MQ-8 sensor has a voltage of 0.1 - 0.2 volts, which is very small and may also indicate the presence of water vapor.

Heating water in the storage tank to 80 degrees Celsius also did not give positive results.

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2023, 09:36:05 AM »
Forward movement. Dissociation of water dissolved in another liquid.

Prerequisites:
 
- this patent states a condition:
 
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3963830A/en

For low-temperature dissociation, the zeolite should contain from 5% to 15% water. In liquid water, decomposition probably follows a different path, with the formation of hydrogen peroxide and free radicals of hydrogen ions. For some reason, hydrogen does not separate as a gas. At least not in large quantities.
 What if there was not water? Or even almost no water at all?
Interesting video on this topic:
https://youtu.be/-IwTl-OAdaM
I don't understand what kind of ionized water is used.

Offline ramset

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2023, 09:00:23 PM »
Well …it would seem ( in my opinion) he just put a
Charge into the water? Like a capacitor effect ??
Perhaps we should ask him ?
Here another charge claim which needs investigations !
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8PbdymGFk8


For me it’s time to stop kicking the tires …
Your work is wonderful ( various investigations)
I hope to join in soon !
Respectfully
Chet
Including above which also must cause some water/ fuel emulsification  ..(oil fuel)
Very easy bench experiment to try ( your video again https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-IwTl-OAdaM&feature=youtu.be
Does simply charging water cause fuel and water emulsification !

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2023, 08:25:22 AM »
Yes, it will probably work, with fuel. For example, to detach oxygen from a water molecule using alcohol, under certain conditions. And the simultaneous release of hydrogen. This method is described somewhere in the link about photolysis. But the use of conventional fuel does not harmonize with this topic. More interesting is the use of non-flammable liquids with a high boiling point, such as silicone oil or fluorocarbon.

Offline Sergh

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2023, 03:01:03 PM »
News!
It turned out to make hydrogen evolution without heating over 400 C and without vacuum -99 kPa.

Added alternating high-voltage current to obtain a barrier discharge. Such as in ozonizers or in plasma balls. Control run without zeolite - no or very little hydrogen.

While there are problems - the zeolite deteriorates due to local discharges, some balls turn black.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2023, 05:00:18 PM »
.

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2023, 08:45:57 AM »
I have always said that a corona discharge in gases destroys its molecules by a free radical mechanism. For example, an oxygen O2 molecule to form ozone O3.
The water molecule in the form of vapor is no exception.
The effect of zeolite seems interesting.

What do the numbers 0.2 volts and 2 volts mean on a hydrogen sensor?
Can this be converted to a percentage?

p.s.
My dear Serge, even if we have a real real perpetual motion machine, they still won't take us in.
In my opinion, it's just not necessary. This world is arranged something differently.

Offline ramset

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Re: Low temperature catalytic thermolysis of water
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2023, 05:59:35 PM »
Kolbacict
Persons like those sharing in this topic ( your comments above)
Should always have a path towards continuing open source research in a productive
Environment.


Personally
I would love to meet more persons like yourselves ( selfless (NOT selfish)
And do everything possible to help !


It is our global mission here ( Stefan’s statement at top of forum!
Truly the cream of the crop !( the best in hard times


Respectfully
Chet K
PS
I think we need an organization ( non profit global research group?
Persons who have a history of sharing their work
Should be helped by such a group..
Also persons here that wish to test concepts ( such as proof of concepts)
Should have access to funding for open source research!


Many here already do this with limited resources
Others make offers ? But lack funding!
PPS
Sorry for off topic Sergh

I will start a topic soon ( or ask Stefan about this first?( hopefully today)