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Author Topic: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.  (Read 18488 times)

Offline activ25

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Re: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2021, 02:57:57 PM »
Thanks for share.
Do you think it is better an AC voltage ?

Offline DonEMitchell

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Re: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2021, 06:09:24 PM »
I'm looking for a lenzless or lenz assisted motor. The three topics I have found so far are Thane Heins, Tinman's rotating transformer and OzSolarPower-Zero Back EMF pulse motor.
Any other motor ideas that I haven't listed that help remove or reduce negative effects from lenz?

Have you heard of the "Mars motor?" by Launchpoint Technologies?  It's the electric engine on the Mars rover's helicopter, as I read was planned when developed a few years back.

It's cool! 

The 3-phase stator is simple radial wires, like spokes of a wheel.

There's no iron.

A Halbach array of neo magnets is assembled at the edge of a carbon fiber disk.  The disk spins on a through shaft that is the output power.

The radial spokes stator of magnets spin around the stationary spokes.

Then another Halbach array is squeezed against the first, sandwiching the stationary radial copper spokes.

Each Halbach array multiples the flux on the working side to nearly two Tesla using common 1.1 Tesla neomagnets.

When the array is pushed together, the magnets  double the flux, nearly, on the working side to nearly two Tesla.

When the sandwich is assembled, the flux of the two Halbach arrays is arranged so that the oppose each other.

The spinning pair of opposing arrays, when squeezed together on the output shaft, will almost again double the flux strength, to just under four Tesla.

No iron, no Lenz loss from iron.

I looked around and can't find any images showing the motor break-down anymore.

The motor is pictured on this page about hybrid electric vehicle motors, but it's the Mars motor prototype..

The project was an SBIR program, where NASA works with innovating companies.

The lack of iron to concentrate the magnetism is made up by the high speed.  The motor pictured above, if memory serves, weighed about a pound, and delivered 7 HP at speed.  Can't recall, a few thousand RPMs. 

But wait!  Here's a YouTube video by Launchpoint from 2010... a speed test...

Grinding neodymium magnets:

For the idly curious... I ground neo-s into an 18 degree wedge to make a Halbach array, and want to share that unless the magnets fit together tightly, the flux-compression to throw flux to one side of the magnet doesn't occur much at all.  The flux flips over to one side only after the gaps are nearly closed.  I can share how to assemble a Halbach array on a thick piece of steel to shunt the hard-press if anyone is into that.  A circular array technique.

And yes, neo grinding dust does ignite and the pile of dust will burn.  I ground with a mill, using a bit turning at a super-slow 2 rpm, and sort of rubbed through for hours and hours taking off only two to five thousandths inch per pass to make 20 wedges.  Anything faster drew sparks. Treat dry dust like gun powder around sparks.  Also, keep another neo near the grinding point to catch most of the dust on the magnet.  I kept my dust ball on the magnet wet with penetrating oil that was helping cool the mill bit.  It ignited several times, but when wet with penetrating oil it only burned as a glowing read line for a few millimeters and stopped.  Sort of like steel wool burns in a flame.  I think it will flash burn when dry.  I didn't try.  Use care.  The stuff  is not poisonous at all, but don't breath any burning metal vapors, period.  That's bad.  Ventilate. 

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2021, 09:21:28 AM »
That mechanism you observed:

The compression increasing as distance draws closer and closer
then FLIP!

If you experiment with this, various magnetic shapes
you can direct the flipping in any direction

This is the drive mechanism of the Howard Johnson rotary motor
The magnitude of the flux on the flip side cam be
orders of magnitude greater than on the compression side

Offline DonEMitchell

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Re: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2021, 12:27:54 PM »
Thanks for share.
Do you think it is better an AC voltage ?

The 'Mars motor' is 3-phase A.C. current driven.  The stationary copper spokes that are electrified, sandwiched between the Halbach arrays, are three sets of spokes.   These three layers of conductors step the activating voltage through the spokes.  The magnets rotate to follow the 3-phase rotation of the electromagnetic field around and around the spokes.

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2022, 05:35:11 AM »
Thank you synchro1 and others that are contributing to this thread, for your continued help. I was hoping to respond sooner with some actual progress but work has gotten in the way more than I should allow. Hope to have something fairly soon to show. I'm concerned by coil building apparatus won't work good. I'm not sure if the motor I have will be powerful enough to no only overcome the tension I will put on the wires as I wind them but also the friction created by having the coil sandwiched between spring loaded caster wheels which I'm starting to realize is a rather bad poor mans version of a thrust bearing.   

@DonEMitchell I have heard of the flying mars vehicle but did not know about the construction of the "Mars motor". Sounds like it would have to be rather efficient at its function so I'll look into it further. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Offline jimbo

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Re: Motor search for lenz less or lenz assisted.
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2023, 11:12:12 PM »
To fully use the electromagnet make it a horseshoe with one half of the coil on the second arm you'll need a second wheel with magnets ..then load the bottom of the electromagnet with small neos that get absorbed by the core so no flux fields stick out when the electromagnet fires the neos just add there power to the total reducing needed power the second wheel doubles the horse power . You might have to cast the core with #7 iron shot and epoxy after they've been sprayed with polyurethane to insulate them ...add the neos a little at a time and judge the effects .,