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Author Topic: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept  (Read 1230 times)

Offline broli

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A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« on: April 25, 2021, 05:21:53 PM »
Thought I would share a new idea that I was working on. The idea came about by trying to figure out how a magnet and coil would interact in such a way that they would aid the motion causing the EMF instead of resisting it. The drawings should explain the setup pretty well. But the key idea here is how the flux crosses the cores making the core on the other side have a field that is in the same direction as the magnet's. This little hack could lead to an interesting interaction between the magnet, core and coil. Sadly FEMM cannot simulate this setup as it's not possible to model it in 2d if someone has a 3d FEM simulator I would be very interested to see the results.

1. Shows the overall setup
2. Shows the flux path of the setup
3. Shows the natural state of the system if the coil is open i.e. the magnet wants to move away from the core
4. Shows what happens when the magnet is pushed towards the core with the coil shorted
5. Shows what happens when the magnets is pushed away from the core with the coil shorted

The hypothesis is that when the magnet is moving towards the shorted coil+core it will experience a resisting force that is smaller that if the coil was open and doing nothing. And when it's moved away from them it will experience a larger force pushing it away than if the coil was open. So with each cycle there is a kinetic energy gain opposed to no energy gain if the coil was open.

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A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« on: April 25, 2021, 05:21:53 PM »

Offline bistander

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2021, 08:22:18 AM »
Why does motion of the magnet in the direction of the black V vector cause a change in flux through the coil?

Offline broli

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 11:02:17 AM »
The closer the magnet gets to the the coil/core the smaller the flux path distance becomes and thus more flux through the coil/core. When it moves away the opposite happens.


Again this is just a hypothesis and must be confirmed. If anyone out there has Ansys Maxwell, would be great to see if this assumption is true.

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 11:02:17 AM »
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Offline bistander

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 02:33:45 PM »
The closer the magnet gets to the the coil/core the smaller the flux path distance becomes and thus more flux through the coil/core. When it moves away the opposite happens.
...

True, but that difference in an unsaturated ferromagnetic path length compared to the effective gap lengths represents, IMO, negligible mmf difference therefore, essentially, no appreciable change in flux for the magnetic circuit. Also, does not the coil and its core have to displace along with the magnet?

Offline broli

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 08:04:47 PM »
True, but that difference in an unsaturated ferromagnetic path length compared to the effective gap lengths represents, IMO, negligible mmf difference therefore, essentially, no appreciable change in flux for the magnetic circuit. Also, does not the coil and its core have to displace along with the magnet?


This can be controlled by air gaps, I also hinted at this in image #2 where there was another path behind the magnet.




Meanwhile I have been entertaining a different design variant which removed the need of the "diode" magnets or air gaps. And a 3d simulation might come soon too due to a little helper.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 11:28:09 PM by broli »

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 08:04:47 PM »
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Offline bistander

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2021, 09:02:28 PM »
This can be controlled by air gaps ...

For equal cross sectional area, a 0.001" air gap will have similar mmf to 4" length of electric grade steel core, not to mention the relative permeability of the magnet material being essentially that of air.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but rather understand how the flux through the coil will vary.

Carry on,
bi

Offline broli

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2021, 10:40:46 PM »
Got the first 3d simulation result. Currently not showing much just the field. Currently the field is equally divided as the magnet is perfectly in the center.

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2021, 10:40:46 PM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2021, 12:42:00 PM »
Sadly FEMM cannot simulate this setup as it's not possible to model it in 2d if someone has a 3d FEM simulator I would be very interested to see the results.

It can be modeled in FEMM, see image.  The force on the moving part is not in the direction you stated, it is pulled inwards.  I have put the moving part outside the ends of the top and bottom rails where it becomes obvious that is the direction.  There is a 10mm grid in the image and the depth is 10mm for those interested.  The pull-in force by the FEMM stress tensor method is 1.8 Newtons and the flux in the coil is 2.56E-4 Webers.  Inward movement does not change the coil flux much as Bistander predicted.  It increases the coil flux slightly.  And if that slight increase drives current in the shorted coil, its effect is not to enhance the movement, but just the opposite as in normal motors.  Sorry about that.

Smudge

Offline broli

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2021, 01:36:56 PM »
It can be modeled in FEMM, see image.  The force on the moving part is not in the direction you stated, it is pulled inwards.  I have put the moving part outside the ends of the top and bottom rails where it becomes obvious that is the direction.  There is a 10mm grid in the image and the depth is 10mm for those interested.  The pull-in force by the FEMM stress tensor method is 1.8 Newtons and the flux in the coil is 2.56E-4 Webers.  Inward movement does not change the coil flux much as Bistander predicted.  It increases the coil flux slightly.  And if that slight increase drives current in the shorted coil, its effect is not to enhance the movement, but just the opposite as in normal motors.  Sorry about that.

Smudge


Hey Smudge, that's actually a clever model you have there, I didn't think of that. I might use it to speed up simulation times.


Meanwhile I have the first 3d simulation results in and they also seem to indicate the same result as Smudge got, that there is indeed an attracting force not repelling. I used multiple refining passes to ensure the force would converge as much as possible but it's clearly attracting.


Before giving up on this idea I would like to try a few variations. The result also seems to contradict a very crude experiment I did in real life where a repulsive force seemed to be present i.e. a coil+core repels a magnet if their fields are parallel and in the same direction, but this may have been a poorly setup experiment.


Edit: @Smudge, I spoke a bit too soon about your 2d model, one key point is to have the part which has the field in the same direction as the magnet closest to the magnet, in your 2d design case it's fartest from the magnet.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 06:06:47 PM by broli »

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2021, 01:36:56 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: A new Anti-Lenz motor concept
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2021, 11:07:13 PM »
I'm running some simulations and the results are rather interesting but I know that could also mean nothing as I may be interpreting them wrong. But first of all let me start off with the field density plot calculated for a line that goes through the entire setup. The value that is used is the B field value normal to this line (in the current sim case this is the y axis of the B field). This is shown in the first diagram, where the large valley is the magnet and the two smaller ones are where the coils are located. The graph also shows that the left side has a higher density than the right due to the magnet being closer to it. It's at about 65% more which is not very negligible.


I am currently running simulations where I "artificially" run a current through the coils to simulate an induced current due to the flux change and solving the force on the magnet. This is faster than using the transient solver but even that takes a while to solve. Initial results do show something interesting though.


EDIT: Also added a field density plot where the magnet is in the middle for reference.

 

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