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Author Topic: Opposed Piston Motor  (Read 39626 times)

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2009, 03:13:30 AM »
I previously misunderstood your design (thought you were using the coils to pump the magnets and using those to turn your generator below).  I now understand that the coils are the *output* mechanism and what I thought was a generator is actually a motor.

BTW, in electricity, power = watts.  Are you getting more watts out than you are putting in or just saying that you're getting volts (which have little meaning until you know the amperage and consequently, the watts) out when you pass a magnet through a wire coil?
Hi Solinear
The design is really quite simple: two magnets are attracted to each other and are repelled by an excited coil between them.
This motor is a fine toy for my three grandchildren who like the name, "Sotropa Motor".
The coils wrapped around each piston were added to one of my toys to demonstrate how an electrical current is generated by moving a magnet through a coil.
The "Sotropa Motor is just a different way of building a pulse motor rather than building another Bedini or Adams or Newman which continues to be done thousands of times.
Tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2009, 03:13:30 AM »

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2009, 03:19:17 AM »
Hi Solinear
The design is really quite simple: two magnets are attracted to each other and are repelled by an excited coil between them.
This motor is a fine toy for my three grandchildren who like the name, "Sotropa Motor".
The coils wrapped around each piston were added to one of my toys to demonstrate how an electrical current is generated by moving a magnet through a coil.
The "Sotropa Motor is just a different way of building a pulse motor rather than building another Bedini or Adams or Newman which continues to be done thousands of times.
Tropes

I like it, a toy.  My son would probably love it, but I'd make him be the one to build it.

How much power (watts) did it consume?

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2009, 03:29:54 AM »
The single coil motor consumed .875 watts (3.5V x .25A).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2009, 03:29:54 AM »
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Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2009, 07:20:55 PM »
   Google AdSense finally paying after 26000 views of my first pulse motor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBjcaSCUoQg
I know, it's not the best but more than 26000 view must mean some like it.

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2010, 06:30:48 PM »
You say that it consumed .875 watts.  Was there any power generation occuring or was that a calculation of (input power - output power)?

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2010, 06:30:48 PM »
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Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2010, 07:26:17 PM »
You say that it consumed .875 watts.  Was there any A occuring or was that a calculation of (input power - output power)?
There is always power induced by the pistons moving towards the coil so I keep a small fan motor running while the motor is running.
My latest video of the 1 coil motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YOHSOK5kU4
Tropes

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2010, 01:23:29 AM »
There is always power induced by the pistons moving towards the coil so I keep a small fan motor running while the motor is running.
My latest video of the 1 coil motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YOHSOK5kU4
Tropes

Why not feed it into the battery that you're running the coils with?  Better yet, put a generator on the crankshaft.  Mattering on the size of the generator and the draw that you put on it, you might be able to get more out than you're putting in.  From what I can see, you've got a decent pull on that crankshaft - at least a couple of pounds.  If you have 2 pounds of force and we're talking about a 1/2" radius with 1200 RPM, that works out to 20 * 2/12 foot pounds/second.  I might be wrong about the calculations, but the kinetic energy that you're talking about is approximately 5 foot pounds per second.  5 foot pounds/second works out to 7 watts worth of energy.  Of course, this is only if you can maintain the 1200 RPM while putting a load on the crankshaft.  If the draw remains the same, as long as you can keep your RPM over 200 RPM, you should be able to have it self-run.  I think that your RPM will drop, but it's hard to say how far it will drop.  If your pull is 1 pound, then you have to keep the RPM up around 400 RPM to have it self-run.

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2010, 01:23:29 AM »
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Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2010, 02:39:41 AM »
Why not A it into the battery that you're running the coils with?  Better yet, put a generator on the crankshaft.  Mattering on the size of the generator and the draw that you put on it, you might be able to get more out than you're putting in.  From what I can see, you've got a decent pull on that crankshaft - at least a couple of pounds.  If you have 2 pounds of force and we're talking about a 1/2" radius with 1200 RPM, that works out to 20 * 2/12 foot pounds/second.  I might be wrong about the calculations, but the kinetic energy that you're talking about is approximately 5 foot pounds per second.  5 foot pounds/second works out to 7 watts worth of energy.  Of course, this is only if you can maintain the 1200 RPM while putting a load on the crankshaft.  If the draw remains the same, as long as you can keep your RPM over 200 RPM, you should be able to have it self-run.  I think that your RPM will drop, but it's hard to say how far it will drop.  If your pull is 1 pound, then you have to keep the RPM up around 400 RPM to have it self-run.
Solinear
Using the basic single coil Sotropa Motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YOHSOK5kU4 I have hooked the induced current back to the source battery and have not had good results. By going to a capacitor and  regulator I found that I could use the 2.25 watts (.5 amp x 45V) to fire the coil 4-5 times using a SPDT switch.
Once I get the 5 coil motor running again (replace the broken rockers) I will use the capacitor to fire a couple of the coils.
 You say this is not the most efficient design, so how do you think it could be improved?
 As far as a patent, by making my work public I am allowing anyone to construct and improve this motor.
 Building is Learning.
Tropes

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2010, 02:53:00 AM »
Solinear
Using the basic single coil Sotropa Motor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YOHSOK5kU4 I have hooked the induced current back to the source battery and have not had good results. By going to a capacitor and  regulator I found that I could use the 2.25 watts (.5 amp x 45V) to fire the coil 4-5 times using a SPDT switch.
Once I get the 5 coil motor running again (replace the broken rockers) I will use the capacitor to fire a couple of the coils.
 You say this is not the most efficient design, so how do you think it could be improved?
 As far as a patent, by making my work public I am allowing anyone to construct and improve this motor.
 Building is Learning.
Tropes

How would I make it better?  I would get rid of the load (the flywheel/crankshaft) during the repel phase.  There are a few ways to engineer it, but you're pretty clever and I think you can manage it.  Actually, you might be able to do it in a more clever way than I would - you're the only other person I've seen here who has come up with a design that isn't identical to 900 other designs that don't work, but somehow claiming that you can get it working.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2010, 02:53:00 AM »
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Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2010, 04:23:42 AM »
How would I make it better?  I would A the load (the flywheel/crankshaft) during the repel phase.  There are a few ways to engineer it, but you're pretty clever and I think you can manage it.  Actually, you might be able to do it in a more clever way than I would - you're the only other person I've seen here who has come up with a design that isn't identical to 900 other designs that don't work, but somehow claiming that you can get it working.
Clever is often not enough. As an old drag racing engine builder I find it difficult to get past the flywheel connected to the crankshaft connected to the piston. Your engineering thoughts are welcome.
Tropes

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2010, 06:37:15 AM »
Clever is often not enough. As an old drag racing engine builder I find it difficult to get past the flywheel connected to the crankshaft connected to the piston. Your engineering thoughts are welcome.
Tropes

For now, I would just go with putting a generator on the crankshaft, possibly attached to the flywheel.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2010, 06:37:15 AM »
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Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2010, 02:38:00 PM »
"How would I make it better?  I would get rid of the load (the flywheel/crankshaft) during the repel phase."
Solinear
The motor is also a generator as are all pulse motors.
I am more interested in how and why to get rid of the load during the repel phase.
Tropes

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2010, 04:34:25 PM »
Solinear
The motor is also a generator as are all pulse motors.
I am more interested in how and why to get rid of the load during the repel phase.
Tropes

Why?  Because if there is no load during the repel phase, you're moving the weight of the magnets (and their carrier).  If you're putting a load on, then you're moving the weight of the magnets plus the effective weight of the load, which requires more joules of energy, while all the energy that you get from attraction costs you no electrical energy while generating kinetic energy.

The goal is to get as much kinetic energy as you can from as little electrical energy as possible, so while you'll get some energy back from the repulsion, it won't be as much as you are putting in.  Additionally, every joule worth of energy that you pull out of the system is a number of joules worth of energy that were put into the system somewhere else.  Basically, on the attraction side of the cycle, you're getting x joules worth of energy from 0 joules worth of energy - it's all gain.  During the repulsion side of the cycle, you're getting y joules worth of energy from (y * (1/efficiency rating)) joules of energy.  Remove the load and your equation changes to simply expending the energy required to move the magnets back to the start (maximum distance) of the cycle.  Since you can hit high levels of efficiency from reducing friction (over 90%) and your carriers probably weigh very little, you'll expend very little energy in moving them back to start.

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2010, 05:38:03 PM »
Why?  Because if there is no load during the repel phase, you're moving the weight of the magnets (and their carrier).  If you're putting a load on, then you're moving the weight of the magnets plus the effective weight of the load, which requires more joules of energy, while all the energy that you get from attraction costs you no A energy while generating kinetic energy.

The goal is to get as much kinetic energy as you can from as little electrical energy as possible, so while you'll get some energy back from the repulsion, it won't be as much as you are putting in.  Additionally, every joule worth of energy that you pull out of the system is a number of joules worth of energy that were put into the system somewhere else.  Basically, on the attraction side of the cycle, you're getting x joules worth of energy from 0 joules worth of energy - it's all gain.  During the repulsion side of the cycle, you're getting y joules worth of energy from (y * (1/efficiency rating)) joules of energy.  Remove the load and your equation changes to simply expending the energy required to move the magnets back to the start (maximum distance) of the cycle.  Since you can hit high levels of efficiency from reducing friction (over 90%) and your carriers probably weigh very little, you'll expend very little energy in moving them back to start.

Very good explanation of the "WHY" but what about the "HOW"?

Offline solinear

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2010, 05:43:16 PM »
Very good explanation of the "WHY" but what about the "HOW"?

Unfortunately, most of the methods I would use would require dramatic changes to your design.

In the meantime, using your '10 cylinder' design, you can just lower the voltage on the coils to the point where they aren't pushing.  The end result is that all the real work is being done by the attraction phase of the other pairs.  I'm not sure what the difference would be and it might not even be a positive impact.

 

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