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Author Topic: Opposed Piston Motor  (Read 39299 times)

Offline tropes

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Opposed Piston Motor
« on: January 10, 2007, 03:39:21 PM »
Hi all
For the last few years I have gone from building a permanent magnetic motor to building a pulse motor. My interest is linear-reciprocating rather than rotary and magnetic attraction rather than repulsion. I would like to converse with someone who has used permanent magnets to attract in a motor. My latest work can be seen at http://www.eebeh.com/piston.html . I have placed a link at the bottom of the page to the Opposed Piston Engine on which I am currently working.
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Opposed Piston Motor
« on: January 10, 2007, 03:39:21 PM »

Offline rukiddingme

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2007, 09:29:56 AM »
Hey peter,

I've been messing around with this concept as well.

Here's a document with the info I've gathered so far.

Hope it helps.

Best of luck

http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/magforce.htm

Other overunity.com thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1873.0

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 05:20:10 PM »
RUKIDDING
Thanks for the input. These are some of my observations: With my simple one piston motor, there is an increase in RPM when I add a PM in the attracting mode to the core bottom of the EM. There is a "bounce" rather than a sudden stop when the piston is attracted to the EM and if the timing is right, the EM force is sufficient to repel the piston over center where it is again attracted to the EM core.
Regarding your drawings and queries, if more than one cylinder (2 pistons) is used then the attracting force of one set of pistons will turn the crankshaft while the other is being released. Also, the PM pistons should not contact the EM core but should have an air gap between. There is a great difference in the force required to separate the two.
Thanks again
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 05:20:10 PM »
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Offline rukiddingme

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2007, 10:07:07 AM »
RUKIDDING
Thanks for the input. These are some of my observations: With my simple one piston motor, there is an increase in RPM when I add a PM in the attracting mode to the core bottom of the EM. There is a "bounce" rather than a sudden stop when the piston is attracted to the EM and if the timing is right, the EM force is sufficient to repel the piston over center where it is again attracted to the EM core.

Yes, I think there is a gain in not using the EM to repel the PM. Just put enough current to the EM to release the magnetic grip. This is if you are using a crankshaft so that the action phase of the next PM pulls the just used PM away. The RPM's have to be right so that the residue magnetic field in the EM after the release pulse is timed to continue the grip release. We need to have a sawtooth waveform on the EMs field. On a guess the magnetic residue after the release pulse lasts maybe 20 to 50 milliseconds (I plan to do some tests next week to determine this value). We want the RPM to match this up against dissipation. If for instance the dissipation time is 100 milliseconds, we would want to have an rotation rate of 10 per second or 600 RPMs. Hopefully I?ll know this soon.

Regarding your drawings and queries, if more than one cylinder (2 pistons) is used then the attracting force of one set of pistons will turn the crankshaft while the other is being released.

Yes, of course, that?s the idea. The distance a piston moves is about 3 centimeters, the distance a big strong PM?s attraction becomes strong is about 2.5 centimeters. In the design the pistons are arranged to that they are all in the 3 centimeter distance. We want to have the pistons past the 90 degree spot on the crankshaft. So the attraction happens on the sweet spot of the crankshaft.

Another main reason you want to use two PMs on each side of the EM is because you get twice the amount of attraction and you use the same amount of power to release the grip of both PMs. Another reason is because by pulling a PM from both sides of an EM there is no induction, they cancel.

Also, the PM pistons should not contact the EM core but should have an air gap between. There is a great difference in the force required to separate the two.

Yes, the PM should not contact the EM for a number of reasons. We don?t want an actual electrical connection between the PM and the EM. Also the repeated contact would break the PM over time. The air gap makes it easier to release the grip, but it also makes it so there is not as much pull force. The attraction is greatly reduced by a gap. So we want to engineer the air gap as close as engineering can accomplish. For experiments use a piece of plastic about .5 millimeters between the PM and the EM. The final air gap is determined by the length of the piston. 


Thanks for your help.



Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 04:40:15 PM »
RUKID
Much of what we are doing is "breaking new ground" but I think we are on the same wavelength. I think it would be of benefit if we used the same model to reference. Since I am in construction mode with a model partially built lets stick to my model. Perhaps you could use that CAD program to construct a drawing using my dimensions. I would send you these by email if you will do this.
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2007, 04:40:15 PM »
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Offline rukiddingme

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2007, 09:42:09 AM »
RUKID
Much of what we are doing is "breaking new ground" but I think we are on the same wavelength. I think it would be of benefit if we used the same model to reference. Since I am in construction mode with a model partially built lets stick to my model. Perhaps you could use that CAD program to construct a drawing using my dimensions. I would send you these by email if you will do this.
Peter

If its not too difficult, sure. Email them to me. Just keep the drawings open source and in the public domain.

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2007, 04:08:34 PM »
All of my work has been in the public domain as has the work of others in the EVGRAY Yahoo group. My earlier work is posted here
http://theowlnest.com/kickbypage.html
My latest progress is posted at  http://www.eebeh.com/opm.html
What I am saying is if we are to expect input we must use the same model for reference.If anyone else would like to construct a CAD model I would be willing to send you the dimensions.
I have received several emails with questions and encouragement. Thanks, but please use this forum and I will answer the questions just once.
BTW, yes it was tricky to construct the crankshaft in 5 pieces.
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2007, 04:08:34 PM »
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Offline rukiddingme

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2007, 02:07:48 AM »
Peter,

Go over to this thread:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1873.0.html

Thanks

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 03:18:00 PM »
I will continue to post in this Pulse Motor thread if there is any interest in the Opposed Piston Motor.
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2007, 03:18:00 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2007, 03:44:10 PM »
Your opposed piston concept is very elegant from an engineering
point of view. Fewer out-of-balance forces to deal with.

Will the attraction stroke take the same time as the repulsion
stroke? At the moment, they must; they are linked.

Also, when you take the voltage off the coil, you will get the
back emf kick back. Do you plan to use this? Put it in a capacitor
and use it on the next cycle?
Paul.

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 05:12:58 PM »
Paul_R
The ultimate goal is to use the back EMF to charge the power system but before that I would like to use the attract force of a second set of pistons to lessen the power needed to repel the first set of pistons. First I would like to get this model up and running.
Peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2007, 05:12:58 PM »
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Offline rukiddingme

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2007, 09:25:30 AM »
Peter,

Here's a couple more jpegs:

<a href="http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/peter array 11 print.jpg"> <img src="http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/peter array 11 print thumb.jpg></a>
Click image to enlarge.


<a href="http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/peter array 11 cell print.jpg"> <img src="http://dreamslaughter.com/magforce/peter array 11 cell print thumb.jpg></a>
Click image to enlarge.

Use them as you like.

Hope this helps.


« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 11:56:04 AM by rukiddingme »

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2007, 03:14:32 PM »
Good work RUKIDD. Now we're getting somewhere. I am just finishing up the motor and am awaiting some coil bobbins. Ian at  http://www.mintakafulcrum.net/  says he will wind a coil for me since he has the equipment and expertise. His site is definitely worth visiting. I am a little concerned about the proximity of the cylinders (the effect of adjacent magnets on each other) but we can deal with that later. I will post my latest today at  http://www.eebeh.com/opm.html
Peter

Offline rukiddingme

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 05:33:03 AM »
Cool,

I have thought about the magnets affecting each other, I don't think there would be a problem with your size magnets if you keep the gap between them over two or three inches.

Good work.

 :) 

Offline tropes

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Re: Opposed Piston Motor
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 06:15:32 AM »
RUKIDD
I notice you have alternated the polarity of each cylinder; any reason for that?
Peter

 

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