Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

2020 builders survivor board => Cyril Smith AKA Smudge builders group => Topic started by: ramset on December 31, 2020, 08:25:50 PM

Title: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ramset on December 31, 2020, 08:25:50 PM
under construction
PDF to follow


From link here post #12
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=is30m1lsuonurkgpop6nn11fi0&topic=3984.msg86578;topicseen#msg86578 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=is30m1lsuonurkgpop6nn11fi0&topic=3984.msg86578;topicseen#msg86578)





Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: Jimboot on January 03, 2021, 09:57:31 PM
I’ve built my first version. It behaves similar to my Howard Johnson device. It’s worthy of more investigation now. Thanks for posting Chet.
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ALVARO_CS on January 07, 2021, 06:51:50 PM
greetings to all
In OUresearch was posted another related PDF wich included an image (below) for a possible motor.I hope this do not disturb Mr. Smith (could not ask for permission to publish here.)Anyway, I made a replica of it with 1 cm cubic magnets.
Tried several height positions with no success. No self motion whatsoever.

regards
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ALVARO_CS on January 07, 2021, 06:53:59 PM
my version with 1 cm magnets
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: citfta on January 07, 2021, 08:47:29 PM
Are all your magnets polarized the same way?  If the rotor magnets are polarized the same as the stator magnets you will need to stand the rotor magnets on edge for the polarity to be right.  In other words if the stator magnets all have the north pole facing out or the south pole facing out as per smudge's pdf then your rotor magnets have to be oriented so the pole faces are facing in the clockwise and counterclockwise directions.


Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ALVARO_CS on January 07, 2021, 11:47:16 PM
Are all your magnets polarized the same way?  If the rotor magnets are polarized the same as the stator magnets you will need to stand the rotor magnets on edge for the polarity to be right.  In other words if the stator magnets all have the north pole facing out or the south pole facing out as per smudge's pdf then your rotor magnets have to be oriented so the pole faces are facing in the clockwise and counterclockwise directions.


Hope this helps.
the magnets are polarized as per smudge drawing, that is: all north facing out in stator (radial) and cw &ccw in the rotor (tangential). Exactly as your description.I`ll try to modify the rotor to enable an horizontal angular position to the magnets.
regards
edited: the only ferromagnetic material present is in the bearings. The shaft is brass, the hub is aluminium.
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ALVARO_CS on January 08, 2021, 12:08:19 AM
Something else I want to try is making a stator with an odd number of magnets, or vice versa, 
an odd number in rotor (easier) ;)
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ramset on January 16, 2021, 08:44:24 PM
ALVARO_cs
I see Smudge did add another PDF here
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3984.msg86981;topicseen#msg86981 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3984.msg86981;topicseen#msg86981)


However I believe he must not have noticed my post pointing to this forum?


I will reach out to be certain he gets note!!


  This forum scrolls topics off the page very fast ...do to certain
“Multi thread Rapid fire posters “ filling the forum with ??
And others seemingly unable to add to a still open ( not timed out as forum will do )
Thread ( seems a few “top of forum page phobias “ ....


Such is life!!


Thanks for sharing your work!


I will try to add PDF above and also as mentioned reach out for Smudge


Thx
Chet

Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: Smudge on January 17, 2021, 10:03:59 AM
I have been keeping an eye on this thread.  The motor that Alvaro built with the rotor above the stator follows my suggestion for Jim Boot to try since he already had that set up.  However it is not the same as the motor in my papers where the rotor is within the ring of stator magnets.  So don't be disheartened that it didn't work.  There are examples of working motors using circular disc magnets, like the infamous Perendev/Brady one.  I think rectangular disc magnets would work better.  Not sure about cubic magnets though, my approach looks only at thin discs.

Edit.  My paper is purely theoretical and could be wrong!! I have no practical evidence to support it other than the motors you find on youtube using circular disc magnets.

Smudge
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: ALVARO_CS on January 17, 2021, 01:23:56 PM
Hello
Thank you for your interest Ramset. No need to unfold the PDF´s pages as there may be downloaded from the OUR page (which I did  ;) ).
Dear Mr Smudge, inserting the rotor within the stator is my next idea to try (thought about it before reading your note above) but due to the small radius of my stator, 38 mm,I may use a different magnet for the rotor. I´ve got 10x10xmm at 1mm thick ones.
If those do not work, I´ll try another approach as you mentioned with circular diam. 20mm x3 mm thick.Another issue to consider is the distance between magnets in the stator, as it modifies-deforms the natural shape of the mag field.

regardsAlvaro
Title: Re: Smudges permanent magnet motor discovery PDF
Post by: Smudge on January 18, 2021, 04:43:02 PM
Another issue to consider is the distance between magnets in the stator, as it modifies-deforms the natural shape of the mag field.
That deformation is simply the effect of the stator field adding (vector addition) to the rotor field.  By considering the magnet to be equivalent to a current loop, and in particular by considering rectangular loops, you can examine independently the separate forces on each of the four rotor current elements coming from each of the four stator current elements.  You are not faced with trying to understand the deformed field.

You find that the long edges of the stator do impose torque forces on the long edges of the rotor, but they are only cogging forces, they cancel out over a full rotation.  Then considering the long edges of the stator imposing forces on the short (end) edges of the rotor, those forces do not create torque, they only create compression or stretching forces on the rotor magnets.  That leaves only the short edges of the stator and the forces they impose on the four edges of the rotor.   By examination it is clear that the short edges of the rotor do get torque that doesn't cancel out over a full rotation.  The long edges also get torque that can negate that, and that is where I have had to build my computer model that integrates the forces along those long edges.

Note that my approach only applies to rare earth magnets where the magnetization does not change.  For other magnets where the magnetization changes on approach to other magnets the edge current model would require the currents to change in accordance with the magnetization change.

Good luck with your experiments.

Smudge