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Author Topic: Acoustical feedback energy system  (Read 23326 times)

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #90 on: April 17, 2023, 02:36:43 PM »
incomplete quote

Question 1-Aleks, why don't you give us a detailed explanation and diagrams ?

Question 2 -Aleks, Why do you suppose that the electrons should "run out" in a vacuum any more so  than they  "run out" on earth ?
I'm presenting a "mind experiment in vacuum". It's much harder to visualize running out electrons on earth, because body of earth is massive, and the electrons may remain under gravity force. But in vacuum there's no external mass, no source of electrons, and plenty of surrounding uncharged space to run out under mutual repelling force. Note that a satellite usually gets its power via solar panels, and the electromagnetic energy is not a source of electrons, at least in common understanding. Electromagnetic energy does cause charge to accumulate in atoms, but this requires nearby free electrons.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #91 on: April 17, 2023, 02:39:26 PM »
Aleks, I have to agree with Wesley in that it is apparent, that most of your statements
here are nonsense.
What exact element contributes to your feeling of nonsense? Speaking in general does not contribute anything except confusion. Tell me what causes your misunderstanding, I'll elaborate.

Offline Willy

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #92 on: April 17, 2023, 02:54:47 PM »
I'm presenting a "mind experiment in vacuum". It's much harder to visualize running out electrons on earth, because body of earth is massive, and the electrons may remain under gravity force. But in vacuum there's no external mass, no source of electrons, and plenty of surrounding uncharged space to run out under mutual repelling force. Note that a satellite usually gets its power via solar panels, and the electromagnetic energy is not a source of electrons, at least in common understanding. Electromagnetic energy does cause charge to accumulate in atoms, but this requires nearby free electrons.

I'm fine with people doing mind experiments.

" the electrons may remain under gravity force"
It is true that under vacuum, events such as phase change, i.e. ice sublimating to vapor
or freeze drying occurs.

Are you suggesting that we should therefore, expect the bodies of space craft to evaporate
while under vacuum as well ?

"and the electromagnetic energy is not a source of electrons, at least in common understanding"

Research   photo electric effect   .  This is what Einstein received the Nobel prize for (not
the theory of relativity).

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #93 on: April 17, 2023, 03:02:50 PM »
Are you suggesting that we should therefore, expect the bodies of space craft to evaporate
while under vacuum as well ?
Why are you thinking this? Atoms are fine, they attract to each other and retain form in vacuum. I'm talking ONLY about free electrons that are required for electricity to work.

Research   photo electric effect   .  This is what Einstein received the Nobel prize for (not
the theory of relativity).

"The emission of electrons from a metal plate caused by light quanta – photons." Electrons are assumed to be pre-existent when photon hits a metal plate. It's absolutely not the transformation of EM energy into photons. Things turn even funnier if you consider photo-electric effect.

Offline Willy

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2023, 03:22:44 PM »
What exact element contributes to your feeling of nonsense? Speaking in general does not contribute anything except confusion. Tell me what causes your misunderstanding, I'll elaborate.

Research   photo electric effect   .  This is what Einstein received the Nobel prize for (not
the theory of relativity).

Science, for the very most part has very specific definitions for the words used in it.

Even so I often find that, when ever I have investigated those definitions to a deep
enough level, even they become pretty well nonsensical. In fact many of the great minds
of science have had essentially the same thing to say about this (which is some what comforting).

It remains however that Newton's observations as to why a baseball in flight behaves as
it does are very correct, within a specified context and/or parameters.

The burden lies upon you, to communicate within the concise language of the sciences and not
rather instead, to create new meanings or vocabularies for others to learn.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2023, 03:24:43 PM »
The whole problem is that for energy to run from one battery terminal to the other, free electrons are required in a conductor, with conductor having a neutral charge overall. When there are free electrons, everything is fine with theory: free electrons form electric field body together with electrons on terminals of a battery, a transfer of energy happens. But what if there are no free electrons, how battery's terminals can form a path?

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2023, 03:26:25 PM »
The burden lies upon you, to communicate within the concise language of the sciences and not
rather instead, to create new meanings or vocabularies for others to learn.

Well, I'm trying. But my words won't do much if you live under the spell of "no overunity in this reality". New concepts and examples are required.

Offline Willy

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #97 on: April 17, 2023, 03:35:19 PM »

Aleks quote
"I'm talking ONLY about free electrons that are required for electricity to work."
Aleks quote end

Free electrons are not the electrons flowing in electrical circuits.  True that, electrons
in a circuit have been freed from their bonds to an atom sort of. But only briefly. They
become bonded to a next atom soon there after. Not what is mostly meant by the term
free electron.



Offline Willy

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #98 on: April 17, 2023, 03:36:16 PM »
I hear you.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #99 on: April 17, 2023, 04:07:48 PM »
Free electrons are not the electrons flowing in electrical circuits.  True that, electrons
in a circuit have been freed from their bonds to an atom sort of. But only briefly. They
become bonded to a next atom soon there after. Not what is mostly meant by the term
free electron.
Well, there we have a problem. You are referring to valence electrons. And your "nonsense" claim may be true in this respect. Such "free electrons" do not leave their bonds. But consider then a cathode ray tube which emits electrons. What is the source of electrons if "free electrons" are bonded to metal lattice? Thermionic emission does not assume only transient unbonding of electrons. I think there many be more than one theoretical model of electrical current to consider. So, at least I now understand the source of confusion. My example wasn't good. Another example: will a cathode ray stop when it emits electrons on a satellite? Or even better: will a device used in double-slit experiment stop after some time when it runs out of unbonded electrons on a satellite?

Offline Willy

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #100 on: April 17, 2023, 04:34:17 PM »
My mind was running to the same examples.

Electrostatic charges build up upon the screen of a television cathode ray tube
(picture tube). Televisions have also, a high voltage transformer as part of that circuitry.

Do electrostatic charges also build up around an incandescent light bulb ? I have never
check this out.

Things start to get really interesting when we consider that the energy of an electrical circuit
is primarily carried in the field surrounding the wires, not in the motion of the electrons which
are bound to the wires. The wires are perhaps more like a kind of conduit which directs the fields.

Even more striking is the consideration that the wires are their selves a form of or complex
patterns of energy which we call physical matter.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2023, 05:27:25 PM »
Electrostatic charges build up upon the screen of a television cathode ray tube
(picture tube). Televisions have also, a high voltage transformer as part of that circuitry.


CRT is not a perfect example to my reasoning. An electron source of an electron microscope is a better example of free/unbonded electrons I've meant. Electron microscope powered by a solar panel can't run out of unbonded electrons, isn't it? Will it run out of electrons, on a satellite, if electrons are beamed into outer space?

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #102 on: April 17, 2023, 05:54:22 PM »
Here's a video of high-voltage arcing in vacuum. There's no conductor nor "valence electrons" to consider. Yet the bridge (consisting of electrons, of course) does build up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTPL-pm92eo Or you can give your own explanation, it will be interesting to hear.


Note that how it's two-way.


I'll add that physics invented "holes" to describe such behavior. It's like abstract holes on positively charged end strive to create a conductivity path. While in reality, as can be seen, there are electron bridges form at both ends.

Offline Willy

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #103 on: April 17, 2023, 06:03:58 PM »
If I may rephrase the question...

If we beamed electrons from a satellite which is within the vacuum of deep space,
could we reach a point at which the balance between the positive charge potential present
within the satellite exceeds the energy available to us (on board the satellite) required to
expel / beam more electrons from the satellite ?

addendum
Gota go, for now.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #104 on: April 17, 2023, 06:21:25 PM »
If we beamed electrons from a satellite which is within the vacuum of deep space,
could we reach a point at which the balance between the positive charge potential present
within the satellite exceeds the energy available to us (on board the satellite) required to
expel / beam more electrons from the satellite ?
Yes, your rephrasing is correct, but it's a classical reasoning, and assumes that electron beam device borrows electrons from surrounding surfaces. Note that you can't measure electrostatic potential of a satellite as this requires a reference point. The ultimate question is whether or not electrons appear "out of nothing".