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Author Topic: Acoustical feedback energy system  (Read 8866 times)

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2020, 06:32:08 AM »
It would be a dream to scale-down this system using piezo-electric elements. Haha, this is a fantasy, but how about energizing a smartphone for eternity?  ;D

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2020, 07:35:42 AM »
This is a good inspirational video on how acoustical waves behave physically.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3oItpVa9fs

Offline lancaIV

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Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2022, 07:31:12 PM »
Just a bump.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2022, 07:43:14 AM »
Does anyone here have a serious background in computational electric engineering? If anyone is available to do some freelancer work, you can contact me via aleksey.vaneev@gmail.com


What I need is a modeling and calculation of this proposed electro-mechanical system (basic circuit modeling won't do). While this system may look pretty much "meaningless", it does have its system of EE equations. What interests me is to find singularities in spectral domain. A singularity is a mode with "infinite" gain. The system basically has only two degrees of freedom - radius and oscillator frequency (plus speaker amplifier's cascade variety).

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2022, 09:16:10 AM »
After a bit of thought, I'll add that systems where flywheel is coupled to electrogenerator that accelerates the flywheel at the same time, work on the same underlying paradox as my acoustical system: electricity generation and spending paradox arising in such system. The main benefit of my system is that it can probably be scaled at will and it's very light in weight.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2022, 10:38:41 AM »
I won't be surprised if "bifilar coils" or anything similar work on the same principle: one coil generates, the other spends energy. So, a theory for all "free energy devices". Practical schemes used worldwide are either generating or spending, putting generation and spending into feedback may seem "insane" for any practical electric engineer.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2022, 09:48:46 AM »
Another batch of thoughts. In recent 2-4 years, YouTubers started uploading "speaker with coil" videos. I'm not talking they are not fake, but I'll share my thoughts in the context of "energy spending and generation paradox", why they may be legit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUnUPaNH7xM


I'd like to point out that a suspended magnet above is a mass with magnetic field: it is being accelerated by gravity. Then the voice coil produces a current and moves the cone at the same time since suspended magnet is moving (even if just slightly and at some frequency). Then this current is fed back to the voice coil. It's a "bifilar winding" of sorts - one is generating and the other is spending. As a result the suspended magnet is pushed back, and overall an oscillation happens.


The possible problem, as mentioned in brief in comments by the author, the lamps do not shine for too long. The reason may be the permanent magnets demagnetizing under bifilar coil stresses. So, a more "perpetual" variant may have a same general construct, but using coils and capacitors (but I'm not an EE), without permanent magnets that are unreliable. Not sure if a suspended mass is necessary if capacitor is large and "slow" enough. Like in my "acoustic energy system", a "delay" is important, to create a large enough boost in power spectrum: the distance between speakers is a kind of capacitance, and the air is an energy medium "orthogonal" to electricity.


I'd also like to point that the whole construct is very reminiscent of "early age UFOs" in shape, if scaled up greatly. The speaker cone may produce vibrations that produce a wing-like effect, if its movement is made asymmetric with some opening-closing "pressure channels". So, a man-made UFO theory for you right here. (there may be anti-gravity-based UFOs, not sure if they are man-made as no public anti-gravity theory exists)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2022, 09:41:44 PM »
Im prepared to dismiss any gesture of “draining” a magnets power in this manner.
Even our original iron or ceramic magnets were known to last over 100 years of heavy use.


There are magnetic levitation devices still holding up their repellent for the same time.


But back to this situation:


If we examine the conditions of say a thermo-acoustic engine
or the thermo-acoustic caveman fireplace,
Or the decibel amplification of an acoustically engineered auditorium


This is exactly the same resonant feedback that can ignite infinite currents and
burn up our electrical circuitry.


The Tesla ‘earthquake machine’ is another example but in the physical domain.


Now lets consider an inside out speaker.
Meaning a stationary cone-coil and the magnet instead moves.
Now invert an opposite (generating) cone on the other side.
If fired with 1/2 wave pulses - i would expect generation at both coils.
One for half cyle (off duty), and the other a full wave.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2022, 02:17:09 AM »
Im prepared to dismiss any gesture of “draining” a magnets power in this manner.
Even our original iron or ceramic magnets were known to last over 100 years of heavy use.

I disagree on this. The experimenter claimed 200-500W generation fades away. The only culprit may be permanent magnets (maybe just one of them).

If we examine the conditions of say a thermo-acoustic engine
or the thermo-acoustic caveman fireplace,
Or the decibel amplification of an acoustically engineered auditorium

This is exactly the same resonant feedback that can ignite infinite currents and
burn up our electrical circuitry.



I disagree. There are no sort of electric coupling exists in these conditions, no medium for "energy from space" to flow from. It's all an acoustical "capacitance", without any orthogonal electric current, no "energy feedback" from the audience, it's all a noise of voices. I think electrons are necessary, be them in voice coil amplifier or a generator of a whywheel device.

Now lets consider an inside out speaker.
Meaning a stationary cone-coil and the magnet instead moves.
Now invert an opposite (generating) cone on the other side.
If fired with 1/2 wave pulses - i would expect generation at both coils.
One for half cyle (off duty), and the other a full wave.


If both are in feedback mode, something may be made out of such arrangement, but I expect the effect to be tiny as there's not enough capacitance or "delay". Maybe I misunderstood this explanation. cone-to-cone at a distance and with a feedback is a better arrangement, like shown on my rough scheme.

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2022, 12:33:35 PM »
Now lets consider an inside out speaker.
Meaning a stationary cone-coil and the magnet instead moves.
Now invert an opposite (generating) cone on the other side.
If fired with 1/2 wave pulses - i would expect generation at both coils.
One for half cyle (off duty), and the other a full wave.
I'll add that my proposed "energy system" is a direct "energy generation opposing spending" since all speakers are spending energy, but at the same time are opposed by each other and also partially turn into generators. A "sqeeze" happens. If speakers are placed sequentially as you propose, the system may also be turned into opposition, but sinewaves are probably better. The problem with sequential arrangement is that acoustic waves of the first speaker won't reach the second cone much - they will be reflected by the magnet on the back of the cone. If I understand your proposal correctly. I do not really see how to make things better by anything else than opposing cones, with the frequency and distances tuned to create at least 90 degrees phase difference between generating and spending energy waves.


Audience amplification and thermo-acoustic fireplace examples have too much diffusion happening. My proposal requires exact resonant frequencies and high-enough energy (at least several watts on a SINGLE frequency). As far as I remember I've played them pretty loud, close to the level of obnoxious (loud acoustic sound is a problem of the system, but it can be minimized if enclosed in an insulating box).

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2022, 12:39:32 PM »
I would not underestimate the fact speakers in my test were all connected to the same energy source, even if this may sound unimportant. We are in the field of loosely explored.


Here's why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjyPmFKxCU&t=300s


A "wave field" of sorts may be created by acoustic waves, so it's possible when a simple soundwave meets an opposing force, it works like a spring, affecting preceding fronts. A continuous soundwave basically looks like a train of compressed matter. More importantly, as the inspirational video above shows, the fronts "stay in place" like bricks, they do not propagate like a bullet. This is a bit another way to look at what happens in acoustics. It's "worm crawling" and not a "flight".
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 02:47:15 PM by aleks »

Offline indigo22

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2022, 08:31:12 AM »
What i was interested in is pinging an object, record the soundwave then wire the object with laminated copperwire and pulse that waveform trough the copperwire.. would it fly? Break? Sound can break glas but what about copper wire on an object? Maybe on wood steel aluminium etc :P ???

Offline aleks

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2022, 08:37:21 AM »
What i was interested in is pinging an object, record the soundwave then wire the object with laminated copperwire and pulse that waveform trough the copperwire.. would it fly? Break? Sound can break glas but what about copper wire on an object? Maybe on wood steel aluminium etc :P ???


Haha, sounds like sound-fiction. :-) But yeah, I get the idea like making a feedback of its atomic structure's sound. Electricity is not acoustics, there's no immediate coupling for any interaction to take place.

Offline indigo22

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Re: Acoustical feedback energy system
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2022, 12:42:27 PM »
Yes there is a sound wave you can record with cooledit, you can see the ac waveform, put that into the wire