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Author Topic: Lords of the Ring  (Read 804555 times)

Offline MarkSnoswell

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2505 on: September 17, 2007, 12:45:17 PM »
Tell me more -- in detail!

Mark.

I've been playing with my newest TPU and I probably mentioned this before, but at certain frequencies of resonance (or standing wave)  it seems to interact with  another signal, or maybe with its delayed self (after going round once or more)

Anyway, a very interesting phenomena happens as I'm watching it on the oscilloscope.  As I approach the resonant frequency,  all of a sudden the FREQUENCY starts to plumet toward DC !!! (on one of the coils only I belive), then as I move the frequency knob of my AC source, it starts to come back to what it should be.   On the other coil I can see the resonant build in AMPLITUDE, but frequency is stable.   Very weird !!!  

It's a very intersting frequency shifting phenomena that I've only seen happen in circular tracks, possible interference with Schumann?  With the signal itself? with both?  Is this the conversion? Is this a mixer of sorts?

EM

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2505 on: September 17, 2007, 12:45:17 PM »

Offline Thaelin

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2506 on: September 17, 2007, 12:56:52 PM »
Okie Dokie  8)
   
thaelin
« Last Edit: September 18, 2007, 04:34:38 AM by Thaelin »

Offline MarkSnoswell

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2507 on: September 17, 2007, 01:09:25 PM »
If you want a nonlinear frequency modulator then you dont have to look further than a collector that can exhibit magnetostriction. You need a magnetic bias for this (in the collector) -- the best bias is generated by the lowest frequency magnetoacoustic resonance the collector supports -> So you now have a magnetic bias generated in a very efficent manner (resoannce). Now kick it with one of the higher harmonics -- as the magnetoacoustic resonant frequency is dependant on the level of the magnetic bias you get a non-linear modulation happening. The best way to kick it is with a fast rising edge -- of course you see sine wave resoances as a result but you *wont* see anything if you try driving with a sine wave:  and no, this is not theory it's from first hand experience.

Just because resonance implies sine waves that doesnt mean you have to drive with sine waves... and once you get non-linear modulation going you get distortion of the sine waves... which is exactly what you expect if it's one part of the cycle where the "free energy" comes from! If you get the right setup then the signal modulation can also cascade -- a good thing if you want an energy gain. Once running you dont need a pulse drive -- in feedback mode your only concern is controlling it and preventing runaway.

Back to experiments...

Mark.

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2507 on: September 17, 2007, 01:09:25 PM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2508 on: September 17, 2007, 01:39:43 PM »
IS i think its extremely unlikely to get this to work off standard audio amplifiers. The bandwidth is too limited rolling off below  20 Hz and already rolled off by 25k plus the distortion is too high. Need DC to 1 meg + because i feel sure these frequencies could be up well over 100k on the small coils.

Here is a thought for you though. If there is no need for active or passive delays or switching between the control coils which i don't think there is then it may be possible to inject all 3 frequencies into the 3 control coils at the same time. Simply bring all 3 control coils to one amplifier wired in parallel as loudspeakers!   SO by driving one control coil simply parallel the other 2 off the driven coil. If im right its the difference of the 3 signals will create constructive waves at 120 degrees and canceling waves in between the control coils providing the rotation. On the other hand better control may be seen with 3 amplifiers in the test stages but its vital the amps and setup to provide EXACTLY the same amplitude.  Calibrate them first by driving from a 1kz tone same source and check on scope to ensure the bias current and output sine and hight or identical. Check again at 10 Hz 50k and 250k

Again as reflecting back to my earlier post the sig gen is only the precursor. Its passive to the loop not active in other words the oscillators nor PA's are not controlling the actually generated currents otherwise the small tpu's would have had control boxes with huge heat sinks on them to handle 150 volts and 80 amps core currents rather like a conventional switch mode PSU.  Clearly this is not the case. Please bear this in mind when trying different layouts.  The black magic twist to all these could be the way the current is collected from the core once its produced. Its already been said this is a cold current and may be collected in an unusual manor. This is where diodes may play a part to extract this but would normally defy logic ie a diode the wrong way or shunting to ground.

Offline bolt

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2509 on: September 17, 2007, 01:56:04 PM »
Mark as soon as we go back to pulses we go back to the dark ages of the last 12 months. In addition the tpu starts to generate EMP pulses rather then gentle flowing but powerful mag waves. Once we start making EMP you get whacked and headaches and cant touch the tpu again then you need to put it back in the cage! If the TPU really did work like that then you would never be able to handle them let alone one putting out 800 volts at 1 amp and put your hands over the coils. It would also mean every TPU would require a health warning sticker like

" Warning, this TPU can seriously damage your health. Only operate when persons are at least 20 yards away" 

You can have extremely powerful rotating magnetic waves like laying inside an MRI machine because there is NO EMP.


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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2509 on: September 17, 2007, 01:56:04 PM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2510 on: September 17, 2007, 02:26:30 PM »
Hey! Im a full member now :)

Offline innovation_station

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2511 on: September 17, 2007, 02:30:19 PM »
at one point i wondered if an antenna amp would do the job just a RF booster but i don't have any of those right now but saw they were cheep alto i don't know what kind of bandwith they can handle

I'm sure more than an audio amp tho

is

@bolt
ah but where is your tpu elite title???   lol!!!

well I'm gonna build a bigger one so it is essayer to work on and play with also hopefully i can lower my freq to work within some of the amps and stuff i already have

i was thinking of a 14" is there a reason there is the 15 the 17 models not the 16 and the 14  hum if the size dosnot matter then i will go with 14 cuz i have a circle of wood that exact size quick n easy ;)

anyone know how i could use the 6bq7a tube i have as a low wattage high freq peramp? i only need 1 amp in this freq range the comp amp could do the lower freq and i just need 1 more amp for the middle freq a twisted way to do it but might just be in reach for ME :)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2007, 12:18:17 AM by innovation_station »

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2511 on: September 17, 2007, 02:30:19 PM »
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Offline bolt

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2512 on: September 17, 2007, 02:46:11 PM »
Yep i should have started my own thread.

The real way to make a TPU! LOL

Offline duff

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2513 on: September 17, 2007, 03:02:59 PM »

So now I have a very good handle on wave production. I could simply take a microphone patched to a protoboard and see on the scope what amplitude shows up at what distances. Pretty obvious. operation.

GK,

You are observing the acoustical standing waves - every room is different...

I know you know this - but has it occurred to you...

-Duff

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2513 on: September 17, 2007, 03:02:59 PM »
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Offline giantkiller

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2514 on: September 17, 2007, 04:48:20 PM »
@Duff,
Yessir. But in this obliquely shaped environment I walk around and at 8 foot distance the standing wave still exists in same temper. There are other small ones at other distances.
In the tpu the oscillator and the collection are in the same physical space so the environment would cause little interferance. The standing wave will still happen magnetically at what ever distance we desire. The circumference length will also work to our advantage. Even though the field strength lessens at distance we just add more collector windings to compensate. We can also beef up the transmitting oscillators. Still, any size will work. And anything that needs a battery.
Or maybe the SM17 works from the outside to the center. That way the compression field hits the controls in the center. And in all the TPUs there is no control components in dead center. They are all offset. ;)

--giantkiller. We be screamin' now.

Offline bolt

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2515 on: September 17, 2007, 05:26:51 PM »
Im trying to visualize the process involved in a simple manor although mathematically would probably fill a few pages to explain the process. However we have to see what might be happening in order to sustain a  virtual rotary magnetic engine. Lets assume the engine is already up to speed so whats happening here?  As the wave pulse passes through the first coil there is a flow of electrons not magnetic so its induced on the control coil. This energy oscillate between the control coil and the balun where the other control coils will see this wave because they are all in an electro magnetic connection through the balun. The three frequencies have already established the timing around the loop because in a 360 degree turn they will be 120 degrees apart. In addition the 2 other coils which are not receiving a pulse will have collapsed there fields and reversed magnetic polarity so N S polarity is now opposite. So now the ferrite produces a wave in contra to the outside loop as a repulsion effect  As the outside loop wave is pushed faster towards the next control coil the second control coil is already self timed due to the balun pulse rotating in the opposite direction which has a localized effect against the magnet. Now this impulse will now couple from the first control coil through the balun and back out towards the second control coil. As the wave passes through it then it accelerated with the same dynamics of a solenoid and accelerate the impulse wave still faster. This process continues  but is also locked harmonically to the collector frequency. The collective  frequency is also important because it must maintain a front edge of interference which is either 90 or 270 degrees in phase with the inbound wave.  When they are in phase this produces a constructive wave and the collector absorbs this power. The magnetic field of the collector expands larger on this cycle and absorbs more energy of the field. So its a two way street, the more power the collector absorbs the larger the magnetic field grows around the coil and the more energy the coil collects. So the absorption process will only occur will we remain in phase. I believe therefore the speed is finite magnetically either at the fundamental or a harmonic of 7.5 Hz however the phasing of the magnetic field  is not the same as the speed of the electrons racing round the collector coil which are in constant acceleration. Im thinking these just get so fast they fly off and impound themselves to the over wound coil which feed these to the load.

In practice the losses of the cabling due to the resistance makes it a lossy circuit or one that doesn't readily want to run out of control. So the sig gen box is gently nudging the circuit to keep going while slightly out of full resonance. All this has to do is inject our 3 frequencies on to the balun through a winding and they will automatically start effecting the control coils to produce the motion. This is why SM often rubs a magnet near the outside control coils if the TPU is being lazy as this kick start the process.  We all know that if allowed to run out of control the collector absorbs massive amounts of energy which keeps producing larger magnetic fields until there is so much current flowing around the loop it vaporises with the energy equivalent to a bolt of lightning. The length of wiring to the balun will also play a critical part and the balun must be in the centre of the collector as it has it own localized field which runs the opposite way to the collector. If the balun is outside of the collector the magnetic field produced by the collector will destroy this localized field and thus the feedback is killed.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 08:15:27 PM by bolt »

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2515 on: September 17, 2007, 05:26:51 PM »
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Offline innovation_station

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2516 on: September 17, 2007, 06:22:47 PM »
can i use that single tube to amp all 3 freqs?

if so hummmm.......   let the fun begin ;D

is

Offline bolt

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2517 on: September 17, 2007, 06:34:03 PM »
In theory yes. It looks like one amp can support the 3 frequencies and i think the entire circuit is self timing like running your finger around a wine glass till it sings. Just need the sig gen to get it going and the correct balance of turns on the balun. An EL80 tube should produce 3 or 4 watts of nice sine waves. The nice thing about tubes is if the circuit is wrong it mostly just smokes out a resistor LOL.  Anyway nothing more can be done till GK reports back with some findings.

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2518 on: September 17, 2007, 07:04:48 PM »
In theory yes. It looks like one amp can support the 3 frequencies and i think the entire circuit is self timing like running your finger around a wine glass till it sings. Just need the sig gen to get it going and the correct balance of turns on the balun. An EL80 tube should produce 3 or 4 watts of nice sine waves. The nice thing about tubes is if the circuit is wrong it mostly just smokes out a resistor LOL.  Anyway nothing more can be done till GK reports back with some findings.

Yes. I was thinking about the 1 oscillator and 3 freqs. But then it occured to me that the GK4 and ECD were pushing 3 freqs onto 1 line just seperated by coils. But one conductor. Either way it still produces the mag fields and the harmonics which occur in space at certain distances.
3 freqs can be connected to a single opamp as a summing amplifier. Then there is only one connection to the coil.
I meant to imply here that it can be built either way. The flexibility was always there.

I am thinking this is a preliminary step to the particle accelerator function of the total operation.

Referring to the graphic: In the top coils(yellow) the freqs(blue) are too fast. In the bottom the freqs are almost right on.

3rd gen built and tested. Triple sinewaves! I'm stoked! I hook to acoustic radiator next. TPU pitbull latched on. Why? Because I can and I must! Wooohaha(crazed laugh).


--giantkiller. Small steps are ok. But giant ones are better!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 09:24:26 PM by giantkiller »

Offline BEP

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Re: Lords of the Ring
« Reply #2519 on: September 17, 2007, 09:33:36 PM »
@bolt

Since 'balun' stands for 'balanced/unbalanced' and they are simply transformers made to connect balanced to unblanced loads/sources and match unequal impedances. Do you have an idea which part is balanced and unbalanced?

@GK

Rogue waves are fun - magnetic or otherwise. When you have three meeting to produce the rogue the amount of power and the sound of the tri-tone is amazing but only if each signal is alone on its speaker. Otherwise the same tone is there but there is no body.

 

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