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Author Topic: AC voltage from single magnetic pole  (Read 11277 times)

Offline stivep

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2020, 07:17:54 PM »
Wesley, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but with all due respect I have to disagree. 
Perhaps I should have defined my meaning of "OU" being more output than input and "infinite"
meaning more energy is returned to the source than is consumed to produce real energy in a load.
OU overunity  is usually understand as more  energy
OUT than energy delivered to the device or circuit.
That  will never be possible.
_______________________
https://projectcamelot.org/degeus.html
https://www.americanantigravity.com/arie-degeus-on-fusion-zero-point-energy
Arie DeGues  was in my mind  a victim of   opposers  seeing conflict of interest who started to believe that he has something in his hands  despite  the reality of facts.
The same was with me, and "some" Russians till I explained to  the public that this will not help .. especially  today - in time  of internet even after I'm gone.
______________________________
J
Quote
un 15, 2016 · AMDG Scientific Corporation is a research & development company named after its founder and chief scientist,
the late Arie M. DeGeus, who discovered novel energy generating technologies, all of which feature ‘over-unity’ energy production.
https://peswiki.com/directory:amdg-scientific-corp
here is  mentioned OU that doesn't exist .
Project is dead.
_____________________________________

 
If you or anyone else can point the way to synthesizing sinewave frequencies in the 2-4MHz range using class D amplifier techniques so
the mosfet switches used can be operated in both their normal forward conduction as well as reverse conduction, then it's a done deal.
The theory behind the gain is from the work of Arie DeGues as is best understood at this point in time.
You feed D  with two signals at the same time  coming from two separate  generators.
In D class amplifier at channel #1  you installing  bandpass filter with bandwith of your desired frequency.
In D class amplifier at channel #2  you installing  bandpass filter with bandwith of your desired frequency.

after that you can do with these  two signals whatever you want. e.g. add,  subtract or take away , multiply,  modulate one with another  and reverse ....and so on.
there is nothing difficult or special about it.
Amplifier  must  be capable of  2 to 4MHz bandwidth at expected linearity.

Mentioned above  applies  to  single mosfet amplifier per channel as well.
https://www.ti.com/lit/ug/tiducz2/tiducz2.pdf?ts=1602350182198&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ti.com%252Ftool%252FTIDA-00733
Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2020, 07:17:54 PM »

Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #151 on: October 10, 2020, 08:11:06 PM »
Yet another test device that may be the closet to meeting Verpies requirements but only he can determine that.

Referring to the pix, the induction source consists of two identically wound primary air coils that are placed back to back or finish to finish as shown.  The finish winding are connected together and the start windings are also connected together with both coils therefore in parallel.  In this connection form, the coils will operate in a bucking mode and in the center where they meet, a compressed unipolar magnetic field will be formed that will start from zero, increase and then return to zero.

This field will induce a voltage and current to a secondary that is positioned directly over the junction of the two primaries at a right angle to the axis of the primaries.  This is the elongated coil seen in the pix.

The scope pix has CH1(yel) as the gate drive pulse, CHR1(wht) is the stored and dampened voltage waveform, and CH4(grn) is the coil current.  Since both are referenced to the same bucking field timing, it is seen that the voltage and current are in phase.

The primary bucking coils operate as follows: Picture both coils placed side by side with coil1 start-finish, coil2 start-finish.  Now rotate coil2 180 degrees so the finish meets with the finish of coil1.  Using the right had rule, now determine the flux directions in both coils if the finish wires are connected and used as the input.

Regards,
Pm

Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #152 on: October 10, 2020, 08:37:35 PM »
Wesley,

I will attach the DeGues patent that I feel best describes the operation of the circuit I disclose in the attached pdf.  The requirement to accomplish the MEI function as shown is to have a sampling frequency at least at 4x3MHz and this is far from ideal and in fact may not work. 

As can be seen in the paper, the energy reverses each quarter cycle so the sampling must be considerably higher to produce as faithful a sinewave as possible.  This would require sampling frequencies in the 30-60MHz range or higher. 

Some might say use DDS technology.  DDS chips operate at low levels when compared to the sine voltage in the MEI.  This means high voltage, high current, high speed devices must be used plus they also be made with a process that allows them to reverse conduct.  Also note the input reactive power required from ~400w-~600w peak to produce ~35w real output.  Whatever is synthesizing the sinewave must be able to handle this reactive energy that is returned to it.

Regards,
Pm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #152 on: October 10, 2020, 08:37:35 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline stivep

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #153 on: October 10, 2020, 09:16:33 PM »
Wesley,
I will attach the DeGues patent that I feel best describes the operation of the circuit I disclose in the attached pdf.
https://youtu.be/HrAWejpez38?t=867
this concept will not work but in therms of  measurement I agree.
look below:
Wesley

Offline ramset

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #154 on: October 10, 2020, 09:36:30 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #154 on: October 10, 2020, 09:36:30 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #155 on: October 10, 2020, 10:39:09 PM »
https://youtu.be/HrAWejpez38?t=867
this concept will not work but in therms of  measurement I agree.
look below:
Wesley

Wesley,

I don't grasp what points you are trying to make here.  If you don't agree with Arie DeGues on this patent that's fine.

Your issue with the AM503/A6302 combo I don't follow. Obviously this combo does not have as high a frequency capability as the Caddock CSR and Tek TPP0500B probe even when de-skewed properly which was done before these tests were run.

Look closely and compare the blue and green traces which are the CSR and current probe respectively and you will see that the blue trace has a slightly larger current lead than the green.  This is evident from the Math measurements which show the average negative instantaneous product of CH1(yel)*CH2(blu) to be higher than CH1(yel)*CH4(grn).  It is a shame that I didn't measure and display the current lead for CH2(blu) which would show a slightly higher value.

Regards,
Pm

Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #156 on: October 10, 2020, 10:48:05 PM »
Verpies,

I see that Itsu ran your preferred bicycle test and the conclusion came out with no phase shift.  However, If I understood you correctly (which I may not of), you said the induction source was not important.  If so, how do you explain the experiment I ran in post #133 with a follow up in post #139?  This experiment used a common induction source balanced between the two secondaries and there is obvious phase shift as per Nix's claim!

I lost sleep over this trying to understand!

Regards,
Pm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #156 on: October 10, 2020, 10:48:05 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline stivep

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #157 on: October 11, 2020, 12:12:09 AM »
Wesley,

I don't grasp what points you are trying to make here.  If you don't agree with Arie DeGues on this patent that's fine.

Your issue with the AM503/A6302 combo I don't follow. Obviously this combo does not have as high a frequency capability as the Caddock CSR and Tek TPP0500B probe even when de-skewed properly which was done before these tests were run.

Look closely and compare the blue and green traces which are the CSR and current probe respectively and you will see that the blue trace has a slightly larger current lead than the green.  This is evident from the Math measurements which show the average negative instantaneous product of CH1(yel)*CH2(blu) to be higher than CH1(yel)*CH4(grn).  It is a shame that I didn't measure and display the current lead for CH2(blu) which would show a slightly higher value.

Regards,
Pm

Most often made mistakes :
https://youtu.be/uDcfevfwyoc?t=307
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMXiD3dKYJc
but there is also another  problem with  phase difference.
In this video  it is shown that  (~only)  at this particular frequency 200MHz  using  different probes it makes signal  between two ports of the oscilloscope  inverted  at 180 degrees.
Lecroy: DDE-3000 series. ( in  video)
I have personally:
Lecroy  WaveRunner64xI
https://youtu.be/HrAWejpez38?t=815
Quote
The deskew for the current probe and amplifier has been adjusted and calibrated against the voltage measured across Rs with the CH3 probe.
- Yes you can point  at bandwidth limitation but it's not always a case.
So the amplifiers and  probes must be at its best exactly the same and calibrated for an average oscilloscope.
or you get an error in your measurement  and that leads you to  wrong conclusions.



Wesley

Offline citfta

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2020, 12:23:28 AM »
Verpies,

I see that Itsu ran your preferred bicycle test and the conclusion came out with no phase shift.  However, If I understood you correctly (which I may not of), you said the induction source was not important.  If so, how do you explain the experiment I ran in post #133 with a follow up in post #139?  This experiment used a common induction source balanced between the two secondaries and there is obvious phase shift as per Nix's claim!

I lost sleep over this trying to understand!

Regards,
Pm


Hi guys.


First a big thanks to both Pm and Itsu for their tests.


Pm,  I see Verpies hasn't answered you yet so if you don't mind I will take a shot at answering your question.  I hope Verpies will soon answer and make any corrections needed to my answer.  I think the difference in your test and Itsu's is the way you are measuring the current.  By using a second coil to measure the current you are essentially measuring the secondary of a transformer.  And of course the secondary is a reactive component.  And any generating coil or power source will exhibit the voltage leading the current in an inductive reactive circuit.  And also exhibit the current leading the voltage if the the circuit is a capacitive reactive circuit.


Hopefully Verpies will explain that better than I have.


Respectfully,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2020, 12:23:28 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #159 on: October 11, 2020, 02:34:14 PM »
Just a note
I believe Verpies has traveled for a
Previous Commitment.


And internet access and time to participate
Are NiL


A return Sometime on Monday

Offline partzman

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  • Posts: 321
Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #160 on: October 11, 2020, 06:56:41 PM »
Verpies,

I see that Itsu ran your preferred bicycle test and the conclusion came out with no phase shift.  However, If I understood you correctly (which I may not of), you said the induction source was not important.  If so, how do you explain the experiment I ran in post #133 with a follow up in post #139?  This experiment used a common induction source balanced between the two secondaries and there is obvious phase shift as per Nix's claim!

I lost sleep over this trying to understand!

Regards,
Pm

It seems that both Verpies and Nix may both be correct as certain test results seem to be time dependent!  I will be attempting to show what I mean later today.

Regards,
Pm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #160 on: October 11, 2020, 06:56:41 PM »
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Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #161 on: October 11, 2020, 08:27:10 PM »
OK, this is a test that is quite revealing IMO.  It shows that both Verpies and Nix are correct in their arguments depending on the time rate of induction for a given L/R.

For example, the test device is shown in the first pix and is basically the same bucking arrangement show in an earlier post but this time it has two identical secondaries to measure voltage and current.  The driver for the primaries is a solid state power amp as before.

The first scope pix shows a single pulse of a 20kHz sinewave in CH1(yel) that is applied to the bucking primaries.  CH4(grn) is the current in the secondary closest to the center of the bucking coils and CH3(pnk) is voltage across the secondary that is the farther away from the center of the bucking coils.  From this we see the current lag behind the voltage approaches 90 degrees.

The second scope pix shows the same layout and connections only now, the single pulse sinewave is 400Hz.  We can clearly see that the current lags the voltage only by a few degrees.  This particular scenario is close to Itsu's setup as the PMs on the wheel are operating with long periods that allow the voltage and current to be in phase.

My conclusion: The current being in-phase with the voltage or lagging the voltage by any amount, is dependent on the period of time the source induction is applied.  This means the result is dependent on the L/R of the coils being measured and compared.

I will run this same comparative test with the three side-by-side coils to see if the results are the same.

Regards,
Pm

Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #162 on: October 11, 2020, 09:28:18 PM »
Here is the 3 coil setup.  It is basically the same type of test as the previous except the primary coil or the middle coil has 3019 pot cores inserted into it to raise the inductance at the lower frequencies.

First pix is the layout, 2nd pix is the test at 20kHz and the 3rd pix is at 50Hz.

I guess a question would be if Itsu spun his bicycle wheel at a higher RPM, would the in-phase current begin to lag toward 90 degrees?

Regards,
Pm

Edited-
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 03:07:46 AM by partzman »

Offline nix85

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2020, 01:39:39 PM »
I don't see how Verpies can be right, he claims just the opposite, that higher frequency/speed will not produce the delay. It's not a matter of who's right in ego sense, i don't give a damn, it's just that he claims opposite of what happens.

Offline partzman

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Re: AC voltage from single magnetic pole
« Reply #164 on: October 12, 2020, 04:41:20 PM »

Hi guys.


First a big thanks to both Pm and Itsu for their tests.


Pm,  I see Verpies hasn't answered you yet so if you don't mind I will take a shot at answering your question.  I hope Verpies will soon answer and make any corrections needed to my answer.  I think the difference in your test and Itsu's is the way you are measuring the current.  By using a second coil to measure the current you are essentially measuring the secondary of a transformer.  And of course the secondary is a reactive component.  And any generating coil or power source will exhibit the voltage leading the current in an inductive reactive circuit.  And also exhibit the current leading the voltage if the the circuit is a capacitive reactive circuit.


Hopefully Verpies will explain that better than I have.


Respectfully,
Carroll

Carroll,

I see that I missed your post, sorry!  Yes, I agree with you.  However, I think Verpies said that any source of induction could be used as long as it was not considered in the analysis.  I'm probably wrong on this and he will correct me I'm sure.

Regards,
Pm

 

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