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Author Topic: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM  (Read 27001 times)

Offline picowatt

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #405 on: September 26, 2020, 12:38:11 AM »
EMJ,

I have a pop quiz for you...

A 0.1 ohm resistor is used as a current sensing resistor.  The resistor and its short PCB traces have 10nHy of inductance. 

At a frequency of 1.7MHz, what is the reactance of that 10nHy inductance and what percentage error does that reactance represent with regard to the 0.1 ohm resistance?

PW

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #405 on: September 26, 2020, 12:38:11 AM »

Offline onepower

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #406 on: September 26, 2020, 12:48:28 AM »
v8karlo
Quote
I always measure my circuits with
current probe + voltage probe + scope math
and never had any problems.

Not with all complex wave forms and high frequency interference shown in the scope shot EMJ is peddling which is why any professional would laugh there ass off and walk away. The biggest problem is that most people only see the pretty colors and the squiggly lines and assume the electronics are smarter than they are. However a DSO is only as good as the person who knows how to operate it, knows it's limitations and knows what there measuring and seeing.

From what I can see the signal interference is causing errors because there is no way in hell that 7.5 watt bulb is sinking 49 watts, not even 7.5 watts.

Look, I have tested countless FE circuits and been hired to test many others work so when I see preschool stuff like this I tell the people who spent thousands of dollars to hire me were wasting our time here. This is a joke and no rational person would invest there time or money in it to my knowledge. You want to see something which does impress me look at Nelson Rocha's work. A small stand alone self powering circuit with no batteries and the output is self-evident. That's impressive.

Meanwhile EMJ is peddling a ridiculous dog and pony show to impress the weak minded, were better than this in my opinion.

Regards


Offline EMJunkie

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #407 on: September 26, 2020, 12:50:08 AM »
EMJ,

I have a pop quiz for you...

A 0.1 ohm resistor is used as a current sensing resistor.  The resistor and its short PCB traces have 10nHy of inductance. 

At a frequency of 1.7MHz, what is the reactance of that 10nHy inductance and what percentage error does that reactance represent with regard to the 0.1 ohm resistance?

PW






1.7 MHz is Irrelevant, we do not use frequencies of this magnitude!

I don't understand why others can not take a serious approach? Why so much Silly?

EMJ

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #407 on: September 26, 2020, 12:50:08 AM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #408 on: September 26, 2020, 01:06:30 AM »

1.7 MHz is Irrelevant, we do not use frequencies of this magnitude!


Have you looked at the scope shots?  There appears to be all kinds of high frequency harmonics and "hash" scattered all over the screen.

If you want to know the frequency content of your waveforms, look up the spectrum/FFT function on the scope and give it a try.

That little box with a frequency readout on the scope does not tell you the frequency content of the observed waveform (unless its a pure sine wave).

PW




Offline v8karlo

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #409 on: September 26, 2020, 01:07:17 AM »



Why you all adressing to Emj like that video is his work?


It should be Loz work?
And Emj knows about it like it is his own.


Strange.


Partzman already adressed to 0.1 ohm resistor possible pitfall.
Probe 1x, scope 10x.
Any error on 0.1 ohm will be multiplied by 10x on scope, giving all kind of BS.


Why not to use current probe?
With current probe person can not falsify results?


With precision resistors, there is always room for zig zag evasive manuevers,


avoiding the real measurements and possible error. Right?




At the end, why not loop device.
Very simple test, and most convinient.


Why the drama for a week now?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #409 on: September 26, 2020, 01:07:17 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #410 on: September 26, 2020, 01:08:00 AM »
Have you looked at the scope shots?  There appears to be all kinds of high frequency harmonics and "hash" scattered all over the screen.

If you want to know the frequency content of your waveforms, look up the spectrum/FFT function on the scope and give it a try.

That little box with a frequency readout on the scope does not tell you the frequency content of the observed waveform (unless its a pure sine wave).

PW






How about you give it a try?

Its not hard, or expensive! Metal Strip 0.1 ohm 1% falls in the category of a Precision Resistor, I guess some are not that smart to understand this?

EMJ

Offline picowatt

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #411 on: September 26, 2020, 01:32:07 AM »

How about you give it a try?

Its not hard, or expensive! Metal Strip 0.1 ohm 1% falls in the category of a precision Resistor, I guess some are not that smart to understand this?

EMJ

The example I used was relevant to your 0.1 ohm resistor.  The inductance of your CSR, as connected, will be very close to 10nHy.  At 1.7MHz it will appear to be 0.2 ohms, a 100% error.  It gets worse with higher frequencies.

Using a similar 1 ohm resistor would reduce that 100% error to 10% at the same frequency (and as above, get worse at higher frequencies).

As Onepower stated "... a DSO is only as good as the person who knows how to operate it, knows it's limitations and knows what there measuring and seeing."

Just about everything related to sources of measurement error has been discussed ad nauseum in older threads.

PW
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #411 on: September 26, 2020, 01:32:07 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #412 on: September 26, 2020, 01:37:48 AM »
The example I used was relevant to your 0.1 ohm resistor.  The inductance of your CSR, as connected, will be very close to 10nHy.  At 1.7MHz it will appear to be 0.2 ohms, a 100% error.  It gets worse with higher frequencies.

Using a similar 1 ohm resistor would reduce that 100% error to 10% at the same frequency (and as above, get worse at higher frequencies).

As Onepower stated "... a DSO is only as good as the person who knows how to operate it, knows it's limitations and knows what there measuring and seeing."

Just about everything related to sources of measurement error has been discussed ad nauseum in older threads.

PW
 






Why do you keep presenting Fake Data? I told you, 1.7 MHz is no where near the frequency we are using! We are well under 1 MHz! One was 3KHz!

Information provided by onepower has been proven wrong many many times, I cant trust someone that presents data that is incorrect!

EMJ

Offline onepower

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #413 on: September 26, 2020, 01:48:21 AM »
picowatt
Quote
Have you looked at the scope shots?  There appears to be all kinds of high frequency harmonics and "hash" scattered all over the screen.
If you want to know the frequency content of your waveforms, look up the spectrum/FFT function on the scope and give it a try.
That little box with a frequency readout on the scope does not tell you the frequency content of the observed waveform (unless its a pure sine wave).

I think you get it, in fact the frequency was over of 987kHZ in the video near 1 MHZ. The maximum resolution of the DSO is 100 MHZ which means the resolution of the data is 100 to 1 at best with respect to which part of the signal it was triggered by or locked on to. Obviously it's a very complex signal with a great deal of hash so did it average part or the whole of the higher frequencies present?.

Here's a hint, whenever any value of the DSO, in all the values displayed starts reading null values the computer doesn't like what your doing like in the video. It does not compute, more so when a given period of one frequency rapidly changes to another frequency which not only introduces phase angles but interference as frequencies riding on other frequencies. Another hint, having programmed computers since they were invented I know computers are not smart but stupid. The logic and reasoning are only as good as the person who programmed them and we are far from perfect. Thus every computer is just waiting for an instance which we could not foresee that it cannot compute.

So wishful thinking is wonderful, I do it all the time, however reality is very hard and we should make the effort to understand what it is we think we are doing or seeing. As I said, this video is a joke and I would be embarrassed to show it to anyone I consider rational or a professional. They would tear it apart asking questions of the person who made it look stupid and has no answers for. Thus if your going to do it... do it right.

Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #413 on: September 26, 2020, 01:48:21 AM »
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Offline picowatt

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #414 on: September 26, 2020, 01:55:32 AM »

 I told you, 1.7 MHz is no where near the frequency we are using! We are well under 1 MHz!


Do you not see all sorts of high frequency hash on Captainloz's waveforms? 

Just because the scope has a "frequency" readout, that readout is not telling you what the "frequency content" of the waveform is (except for a pure sine wave).

Inductance in the CSR is only one possible source of error, and common sense should tell you there must indeed be measurement errors.

Why? Because it does not take 17 watts to light a pair of 2.8 watt lamps...

PW 



Offline v8karlo

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #415 on: September 26, 2020, 01:56:19 AM »
picowatt
I think you get it, in fact the frequency was over of 987kHZ in the video near 1 MHZ. The maximum resolution of the DSO is 100 MHZ which means the resolution of the data is 100 to 1 at best with respect to which part of the signal it was triggered by or locked on to. Obviously it's a very complex signal with a great deal of hash so did it average part or the whole of the higher frequencies present?.

Here's a hint, whenever any value of the DSO, in all the values displayed starts reading null values the computer doesn't like what your doing like in the video. It does not compute, more so when a given period of one frequency rapidly changes to another frequency which not only introduces phase angles but interference as frequencies riding on other frequencies. Another hint, having programmed computers since they were invented I know computers are not smart but stupid. The logic and reasoning are only as good as the person who programmed them and we are far from perfect. Thus every computer is just waiting for an instance which we could not foresee that it cannot compute.

So wishful thinking is wonderful, I do it all the time, however reality is very hard and we should make the effort to understand what it is we think we are doing or seeing. As I said, this video is a joke and I would be embarrassed to show it to anyone I consider rational or a professional. They would tear it apart asking questions of the person who made it look stupid and has no answers for. Thus if your going to do it... do it right.

Regards


Good point,


My signals were always clean, more or less, so I have not this kind of problems.


What you suggest to him to measure it right?
If you know, help him with advice.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #415 on: September 26, 2020, 01:56:19 AM »
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Offline partzman

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #416 on: September 26, 2020, 02:01:47 AM »
CaptainLoz,

As I understand it at this point in time, you do have a device that appears to be AU/OU.  Are you willing to share the scope shots of this device for our scrutiny? This would possibly solve a lot of questions both here and there.

There are several key good engineering points that are being ignored by Chris and some of his followers and I would like to discuss some of those.  Some here have already pointed these out but I think it is good to refresh for everybody's well being.

1)  Scope resolution.  Enough has been stated on this but it is not being applied by Chris and group up to this point in time.

2)  Sense resistor value and type.  Caddock for one makes 1% precision film resistors designed especially for high frequency current sensing up to 100's of ohms in value and above.  Very low "L".

3)  The apparent lack of knowledge for the correct use of avg and rms.  For any waveform combination where current and voltage are involved and one wishes to know the resultant power, instantaneous samples are taken over time and multiplied at that instant and stored in memory.  These resultant products at the end of the measurement cycle, are then summed and averaged to get what is termed the true average power.

If however we wish to know the power dissipated in a resistor or resistive load, we can use the rms voltage and current for this calculation.  Why?  Because the rms of any shape waveform across a resistor produces the same amount of heat in the resistor as DC would.  Using avg for this would result in a lower value than the true value.

4)  Less than ideal circuit layout.  With the AM broadcast band starting at 535kHz, you can't expect accurate readings on any surrounding instruments used for measurement when many wire leads of considerable length are strewn all over.  You have many inductances creating various parasitic oscillations which broadcast into the equipment.  I mean it is futile to use a non-inductive sense resistor of any value when long lead lengths are all over the place even at several hundred kHz.

I would hope that someone from Chris's team or Chris himself would allow their circuit to be analyzed by those on this forum who are capable and there are many here.  It's time to end all the BS and get down to the job of achieving OU.  And Chris, if you say one more time that you have it, then PROVE IT!

Pm

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #417 on: September 26, 2020, 02:50:51 AM »
...






Partzman, I believe you missed CaptainLoz's post. Worth looking up and reading. CaptainLoz's Thread: Captainloz's Asymmetrical Re-gauging Experiment

CaptainLoz is still in very early stages, we have seen a few problems, which we have resolved. As time progresses, CaptainLoz will make improvements to his work, and the Output will go up dramatically. The Input will go down dramatically. You have seen this sort of thing working for mark Goldes back in the Day. I believe Graham Gunderson referrers to some of this in his video.

I find is very interesting, some here, dismiss a reading of Potential on the Scope, on the Output, that is not on the Input, as Noise, or harmonics, and dismisses this as a spurious effect. Any and All Readings of Potential, where V and I are in Phase, is Power, no matter what the Source! I think you need to correct your friends so they don't look like Numpty's in front of the entire community.

I have real trouble understanding how some manage to get themselves out of Bed in the Mornings? Why so much Silly Here? Why cant some here investigate this Seriously?

I would not blame CaptainLoz for making the thread private, so none here can see it, and not share any more with anyone! Behavior here is terrible!

CaptainLoz, is one of many, that has successfully replicated My Work! Many at different stages! There is nothing Hard Here! There are No Secrets! You all can do this! You only have to follow a few simple Rules, already laid out Here!

EMJ
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 08:00:58 AM by EMJunkie »

Offline onepower

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #418 on: September 26, 2020, 08:54:24 AM »
V8karlo
I use two supercap banks I made rated at 5 Farads /24 working volts, 30 volt max. So I know the exact input versus output with a simple calculation U=1/2CV^2. It's also easy to loop the output cap back to the input cap with a high efficiency buck converter.

So it's actually very easy to loop a circuit and I gave up on trying to use my DSO to measure complex HF waveforms years ago. It's basically a waste of time in my opinion.

Think of it this way, you could spend weeks using all kinds of expensive equipment trying to analyze input vs output. Or use two cap banks or a loop and know in minutes. So why dork around when we can know for sure in a matter of minutes?.

Regards

Offline picowatt

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Re: RANT CAFFE ASYLUM
« Reply #419 on: September 26, 2020, 02:25:16 PM »

Why you all adressing to Emj like that video is his work?


V8karlo,

What started this mess was a simple comment about two incandescent lamps.

Someone (EMJ or Ramset) posted a link to CaptainLoz's video #5 on the POC thread.  Having watched the video, I posted a comment on the non-moderated POC thread suggesting it was very unlikely that the two incandescent lamps being used as a load in video 5 at around 7:30 were dissipating what the scope was reading or even what the power supply readouts indicated.

I suggested connecting the lamps directly to the supply and driving them to similar brightness to see what the lamps draw, as a way to confirm measurements.

EMJ, as usual, became very defensive and argumentative and after several of posts back and forth riddled with his typical insults and trying to convince me the lamps were indeed somehow dissipating the indicated wattage, he deleted my posts. (I thought that thread was not moderated, what gives?)

In any case, shortly thereafter there was some admission of error regarding a bad probe used during that video.

So, from a simple suggestion that the lamps be connected directly to the DC supply to see what they draw at similar brightness, we have had page after page of argumentative discussion trying to bolster overunity claims with all manner of assumptions regarding the incandescent lamps, the LED bulb, the scope readings, and of course, insults and deletions. 

All that from suggesting the lamps were not dissipating the indicated wattage and that they should be connected directly to the supply for verification.

Perhaps were it CaptainLoz's thread he would have responded differently to the suggestion.  Perhaps CaptainLoz as well might have wondered if it were even possible for the lamps to dissipate that much power and connected the lamps to the supply to see what they draw.

But, it was EMJ's thread and EMJ's POC "technology", and it is EMJ that gets all defensive and insulting when anyone questions his claims of "overunity". 

I believe the advent of low cost digital scopes has led some OU researchers to inadvertently focus on connecting and tuning their circuits to cause the scope to erroneously indicate OU, which is relatively easy, and not focus on alternative measurement methods to confirm the power going to the load. 

Building a differential thermal or optical wattmeter is not that terribly difficult and could be given consideration, but there are even simpler methods within the reach of most. 

In the past we have seen lamps used as loads and low cost lux meters used to verify a circuit's output by driving the lamps to similar brightness with a DC supply as indicated by the lux meter.  If the lamp and lux meter are housed and located under fixed conditions when driven by either the circuit under test or the DC supply, a fair degree of accuracy should be achievable.  Something similar could be achieved using thermometry as well.

PW



 

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