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### Author Topic: few general formulas  (Read 7665 times)

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2021, 03:27:52 PM »
of course there is positive and negative work
positive work being accelerating the object
and negative work delecreating it. neither is
relating to gravitational potential in particular.

work is change in energy, inertial, thermal, gravitational,
mechanical, electrical.. any change in energy of the system
is work.

"If you move the book at constant speed horizontally,you don't do any work on it, despite the fact that you have to exert an upward force to counter-act gravity."

to move the book at constant speed you must first accelerate it
and then work against friction, thus you are doing work,
that you have not lifted or lowered it vertically is irrelevant

#### lancaIV

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 4980
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2021, 03:55:19 PM »
Yes,You remarked the point : ' ... constant ...' versus Your state ' ... accelerating ( or decelerating) ...'

But between these physical states ' no/work' is the gain potential !
There is also inside the ' phase shift' : how is the Lorentz force,the Coloumb force, orientation/influence  ? (!)

To Your last statement the question : can accelerating not be negative work and decelerating positive work ? ( !)

Thinking from the ZP-Minkowskiraum

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2021, 04:20:01 PM »
pushing an object is work, on the floor or in space

accelerating negative work? maybe in antimatter universe

#### stivep

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3225
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2021, 12:51:59 AM »

If you move the book at constant speed horizontally,you don't do any work on it, despite the fact that you have to exert an upward force to counter-act gravity.

really? ??

to move the book at constant speed you must first accelerate it
pushing force does do work

Wesley

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2021, 01:02:24 AM »
lanca clearly confused work with gravitational potential

#### kajunbee

• Full Member
• Posts: 165
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2021, 04:39:02 AM »

#### lancaIV

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• Hero Member
• Posts: 4980
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2021, 10:48:38 AM »
From work-definition,pos. or neg.,to force-definition with orientation-pos. or orientation-neg.to 'conservation of momentum' !
Lifting force = Hub-Kraft /traction force = Zug-Kraft !

From force to pressure to impulse !
Discussion is a fine 'thing' ,but a machine does not discuss,it works like constructed : right or wrong!

Sincere

OCWL
p.s.: nix85,from earth/ground fixed 3d building print system the evolution state is now in the flying 3d print drone, there you need real and right XYZ- coordination from the flying object and the work object !

Imagine : a flying platform( ' flying carpet') as rescue device in a storm ,from different directions the wind forces,                  but the platform has to stay ,relatively,still and in horizontal position !

lifting platform (~ vtol)  inventor idea : Erich Mehnert : DE19944785

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2021, 12:57:29 PM »
p.s.: nix85,from earth/ground fixed 3d building print system the evolution state is now in the flying 3d print drone, there you need real and right XYZ- coordination from the flying object and the work object !

Imagine : a flying platform( ' flying carpet') as rescue device in a storm ,from different directions the wind forces,                  but the platform has to stay ,relatively,still and in horizontal position !

lifting platform (~ vtol)  inventor idea : Erich Mehnert : DE19944785

horizontal acceleration is doing work

#### lancaIV

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• Posts: 4980
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2021, 01:16:54 PM »
what wesley also by his link delivered :

Work can only be done on an object if it moves, if the object moves up 2 meters and then it falls back down 2 meters and returns to it's original position then there was no work done on the block. If the distance from the starting position and the ending position does not change then there was no work done on the block. So to answer your question, no gravity has done no work on this object because it just fell back to it's original position.

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2021, 01:22:14 PM »
that is equivalent of pushing a book across a table and then
pushing it back to exactly same place
as far as book's position is concerned overall work is 0
but work has been done, ur energy has been wasted,
that is, converted

#### lancaIV

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• Hero Member
• Posts: 4980
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2021, 01:25:58 PM »
nothing  in the example is (velocity) accelerating,neither vertical nor horizontal or diametral !

Staying in constant velocity !

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2021, 01:30:19 PM »
irrelevant, going up is WORKing against gravity and vice versa

#### lancaIV

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##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2021, 01:38:24 PM »
that is equivalent of pushing a book across a table and then
pushing it back to exactly same place
as far as book's position is concerned overall work is 0
but work has been done, ur energy has been wasted,
that is, converted

irrelevant the process ,total physical effect       W = 0

pushing forward,pushing backward : linear/rotative device !?  Nearly-,Net-, Zero Energy     future program

#### nix85

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1191
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2021, 01:43:40 PM »
what you speak is nonsense
again take the book example
you push it across the table
then back to original place
you claim no work is done
that is plain wrong

#### lancaIV

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• Hero Member
• Posts: 4980
##### Re: few general formulas
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2021, 01:56:39 PM »

In the DDR. there was a job creation program:

In a warehouse, the same types of screws were brought together from a pile of screws by a work group,
these were brought together again in a second warehouse and brought back to the "work"- group as a mixed pile!

A.-B.-M.  : Arbeits-Beschaffung-Program,sozialistische Definition

"pointless/stupid work" and " Work: Physics,scientifical defintion"

by Physics : the above worker work value = Zero worth

In real ECONOMY the Zero-result :