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Author Topic: Pandemic - Run the virus through the community during the summer, instead of  (Read 2183 times)

Offline unsure

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Pandemic - Run the virus through the community during the summer, instead of winter !

The best option would be to run the virus through the community in what is left of summer, so that the hospital overflow tent rooms ( and all the other infrastructures etc ) set up outside of hospitals will be there in warmer weather rather than cold weather.
(  Obviously while running the virus through the community, you would provide services to enable the age-bracket affected by the virus, and those with illnesses,  to stay home if they want,  to avoid being infected. )

      That would just leave an in between age-bracket, and some people with illnesses and some young people, which may be affected by the virus,  these groups would make up hospitalization numbers that could probably be manageable,  more or less,  COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to the first wave .

Another problem during winter is that many or most people will have other colds/flu s etc that will actually cause them to sneeze etc ( unlike the present-virus which on average does not have those symptoms  ). sneezing is what would spread the present-virus the fastest ( yes people are  wearing masks, but they have leaks etc  ).

NOTE - The community has been strangely lucky in that this virus seems to 'mainly' affect only a certain age-bracket ( and people with illnesses ), it is almost the  'complete-opposite'  of the virus-from-100-years-ago.
And yet most governments are handling this present-virus as if it were actually the virus-from-100-years-ago,  this present-virus could possibly have been completely wiped out in a minimum of 6-months, by tackling it head on etc,  instead of prolonging it all,  causing all the follow-on problems etc .
(And,  some countries banning walking exercise while at the same time allowing bars etc to open without requiring people to wear masks )

Other consequences in the future -
 - Possible development of lung diseases / conditions in some people from having to wear masks ( from breathing in the humidity inside the mask,  and the loose non-degradable mask-fibers caused by male facial hair stubble damaging the mask, and other problems )
 - Communities/people confined to their indoors, will make those indoor environments more unhealthy, more humid from exhalation, more squalor,  all this may create environments where more serious viruses may actually develop.
  - Not to mention an endless list of all the other problems caused by not handling this present-virus correctly.

LATE EDIT
      The second wave does appear to be occurring at the moment in many places, at the moment very high numbers of NEW infections are occurring ( in recent weeks ),  I'm 'referring  to places where it is currently summer,  and unless I'm wrong,  it seems that at the moment much less infected people are dying ( countries where it is summer )  whereas in the first-wave( in the winter-time ) it seemed many deaths occurred  'sort of soon' after being infected . 
       During the first-wave one of the things I looked up was the effect of one or two added oils in foods, their effect on lung inflammation, I can't remember all of the oils or all the results I found ( and I could not properly interpret all of the results since I have no training in that ).   
        The reason I looked that up is that in the winter time people eat fattier foods ( containing those added oils ), and these oils may increase lung inflammation in the infected people, one of the results I found seemed to confirm that.
         Note, my theory about added food oils was just a tiny aspect/detail about the pandemic I was looking up,  it may or may not have any relevance, so with or without this tiny aspect,  it's possible my summer-time-importance-theory in this post has some credibility .
         (  Obviously,  those countries with the highest percentage of their population in the 'affected age bracket'  and a high percentage of people with illnesses etc,  would have the highest percentage of fatalities  )
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 05:51:34 AM by unsure »

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Offline onepower

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Unsure

The majority of people already spend most of there time indoors so that's not a problem. As well doctors and nurses have been wearing masks for a hundred years which doesn't appear to be a problem.

What is a very big problem is allowing the virus to spread exponentially through the population over running the hospitals unnecessarily killing an untold number of people.

The number of infected people speak for themselves. The U.S., Brazil, India and Russia didn't listen to the experts and now they have the most infected people and deaths.

You just don't get it, the U.S. death count is currently at a record 153,769. If left unchecked with flooded hospitals the projected number of deaths is over 4 million dead.

In fact what you propose is completely backwards which is why we have real experts who know better in my opinion.

Offline unsure

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    The second wave does appear to be occurring at the moment in many places, at the moment very high numbers of NEW infections are occurring ( in recent weeks ),  I'm 'referring  to places where it is currently summer,  and unless I'm wrong,  it seems that at the moment much less infected people are dying ( countries where it is summer )  whereas in the first-wave( in the winter-time ) it seemed many deaths occurred  'sort of soon' after being infected . 
       During the first-wave one of the things I looked up was the effect of one or two added oils in foods, their effect on lung inflammation, I can't remember all of the oils or all the results I found ( and I could not properly interpret all of the results since I have no training in that ).   
        The reason I looked that up is that in the winter time people eat fattier foods ( containing those added oils ), and these oils may increase lung inflammation in the infected people, one of the results I found seemed to confirm that.
         Note, my theory about added food oils was just a tiny aspect/detail about the pandemic I was looking up,  it may or may not have any relevance, so with or without this tiny aspect,  it's possible my summer-time-importance-theory in this post has some credibility .
         (  Obviously,  those countries with the highest percentage of their population in the 'affected age bracket'  and a high percentage of people with illnesses etc,  would have the highest percentage of fatalities  )

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Offline conradelektro

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There are two responses to the Coronavirus:

- fear
- denial

And the authorities (experts, health establishments, politicians) simply do not know what to do (as we all do not know how to behave).

There is enormous pressure from business (and their political and philosophical advocats) against all sort of closures. The only protection against the Coronavirus ist "no contact", but that is exactly the problem for all economic activities. The resulting chaos seems to automatically cause chaotic actions by everybody. Craziness prevails.

Of course, I also can not help you (neither with advise, nor with actions). So keep on fearing or denying according to your personal disposition.

May be writing in forums and stating your unimportant and effectless opinion calms you a bit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/smarter-living/coronavirus-coping-tips.html And how much help is this artcle? So, do not blame me for writing nonsense, it is the stile now.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline onepower

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Quote
There are two responses to the Coronavirus:
- fear
- denial

My response was more "acceptance" because viruses and pandemics occur in nature. This isn't the first pandemic nor will it be the last. So we deal with it as best we can and take whatever precautions we feel are necessary.

Quote
And the authorities (experts, health establishments, politicians) simply do not know what to do (as we all do not know how to behave).
There is enormous pressure from business (and their political and philosophical advocats) against all sort of closures. The only protection against the Coronavirus ist "no contact", but that is exactly the problem for all economic activities. The resulting chaos seems to automatically cause chaotic actions by everybody. Craziness prevails.

I would call it "different" not crazy and people are taking whatever action they feel is warranted. As well when 20% of the employee's in a business get sick and some die what would you suggest they do, just keep hiring more people who get sick and die?. In fact many businesses reopening can't find employee's because the job is simply not worth the risk. It may seem crazy until you or someone you know is laying in a hospital bed fighting for your life then... not so much.

Quote
Of course, I also can not help you (neither with advise, nor with actions). So keep on fearing or denying according to your personal disposition.

As I said I have neither fear or denial, Covid and this pandemic are real and I take precautions to ensure my safety and those around me. My problem is people who say I should take no precautions which is not only reckless but irresponsible. Would you go to a construction job without a hard hat and steel toed boots?. Well no that would be stupid, this is the same kind of reasoning people are using to avoid Covid.

No offense but as an employer, if you came onto my job site without adequate protective gear and a complete disregard towards safety I would fire you on the spot. Your not worth my time when there are a thousand people just like you who will act responsibly. As well you have the business issue completely backwards and most of my friends closed shop voluntarily. You seem clueless to the fact that if my employee's got sick and infected all my customers I am liable for damage. They would sue me into god damn oblivion and I could lose everything I worked for.

So no, it's not fear and denial it's called due diligence and professionalism... you should try it.


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Offline ramset

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well...we have several members and perhaps many I am unaware of[and I also have some friends ] who have worked as volunteers in Haiti

They have connections there and I will be asking for feedback..and also from some of the other countries on the Per capita list ..with high population densities and
extremely low [comparatively speaking]  Death rates [in VERY susceptible populations .


Offline onepower

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Unsure
Quote
The second wave does appear to be occurring at the moment in many places, at the moment very high numbers of NEW infections are occurring ( in recent weeks ),  I'm 'referring  to places where it is currently summer,  and unless I'm wrong,  it seems that at the moment much less infected people are dying ( countries where it is summer )  whereas in the first-wave( in the winter-time ) it seemed many deaths occurred  'sort of soon' after being infected .

In fact, as Dr. Fauci implied there is no first/second wave per say nor is there a direct correlation between seasons other than the number of people coming into contact with one another and spreading the virus.

We could assume winter would spread the virus faster because more people are concentrated indoors versus spread out outdoors like in summer, key word concentration. However countries and places which ignored the experts recommendations and crowded onto beaches and malls in the summer obviously had high infection rates. So it's not about winter/summer more so how many people are in contact with other people in a given space.

The supposed second wave is similar, as we can see when the infected numbers started dropping the first thing many people did was resume there normal activities. Then when more people were in contact with other people they infected more people and the numbers started to rise again. So the second wave relates more to psychology and habitual behavior where people ignore the rules because they think the danger has past but it is still present. The moment people start concentrating in numbers the infection rate rises again.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/07/22/niagara-falls-cruise-photo-illustrates-stark-difference-in-covid-19-response-between-us-and-canada.html
The picture below should explain everything and all those crazy people with blue coats crowded onto a boat in the middle of a pandemic are obviously not Canadian who seem to have something in the way of common sense. Which explains exactly why the U.S. infected numbers were 53,000 today while Canada was only 238. People can peddle whatever bs they want but this single picture describes the reality of the situation on the ground and why the infected numbers are what they are. Don't be stupid... listen to the experts.

Regards

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Offline ramset

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Haiti shines a light on protocol ? [many other Densely  populated areas too ?
The population density in

 Haiti is 414 per Km2 (1,072 people per mi2). .....[14 Deaths per million population

Canada3.78 person/km2..... [ 242 deaths per million population

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/


https://www.populationpyramid.net/population-density/canada/2020/

OnePower  your a professional and a scientist...? this Data does not jump off the page at you ?? [as well other examples in the charts...highly contagious in dense populations..? [should just take one seed on March 20 2020 first "confirmed case" ...[414 per Km

Offline onepower

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Quote
Haiti shines a light on protocol ? [many other Densely  populated areas too ?
The population density in
Haiti is 414 per Km2 (1,072 people per mi2). .....[14 Deaths per million population
Canada3.78 person/km2..... [ 242 deaths per million population

OnePower  your a professional and a scientist...? this Data does not jump off the page at you ?? [as well other examples in the charts...highly contagious in dense populations..? [should just take one seed on March 20 2020 first "confirmed case" ...[414 per Km2

One could start cherry picking any number of data points however the fact remains that the U.S. Covid response is a lesson in gross incompetence and what not to do. Globally your country accounts for roughly 25% of the infected/dead and you want to talk about the population density of a tiny third world country?. 

That's like taking your massive number of dead stacked like cord wood and saying ... look we have nicer shoes, this is just the flu and Timbuktu had some cases, look at Timbuktu. So no the data does not jump off the page at me because it's meaningless and a distraction from the gross incompetence we see.

The fact remains that if people don't start acting responsibly and listening to the experts this pandemic will continue to escalate. The fact also remains that trump made the Covid pandemic political and was peddling bullshit to win an election instead of minimizing the damage and trying to save lives. The republicans need to put a muzzle on him before he destroys not only the U.S. economy but the world as well. This didn't need to happen, it could have been contained but now it's turned into a shit show like everything trump does.

Regards

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Offline onepower

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The Five Wildest Moments From Donald Trump's Interview with Axios
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig_btdrmxD4

"were last meaning were first" - quote of the century

I could say more but I don't think it's needed... the guy is a complete moron.


Offline unsure

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The pictures posted above make the text on all posts hard to read because you have to scroll sideways to read all of a sentence.
_______

Not long before colder weather returns.

This virus ( unlike 100 years ago ) is strangely unique in that it mainly affects older people >50 or those with health problems.  Shouldn't governments behave like opportunists to take advantage of the strange uniqueness of this virus .

MAIN POINT - Percentage wise, the 'main' contamination highways and roads that spread this virus are the 0 - 50 ( or 0 - age-? ) age group that don't have health problems relevant to this virus,  the part of the population least likely to be affected by the virus.

MAIN POINT -  A government could decide to run this virus through the community ( NO MASKS etc ),  AND DURING THAT RUN,  provide services or protocols to enable the highest affected older age groups ( or people who have health problems relevant to this virus ) to either stay at home ( or not be infected if they go out ) .

I'm pretty sure governments seem to be aware of the need to 'run' this virus through the community, which is why in many places people are allowed to stand around, or near bars and restaurants without needing to wear a mask,  I regularly walk past them,  within literally centimeters,  as they are talking without a mask while I have to wear one,  also,  it seems if you are talking on a phone or smoking ( in some places ) while walking, you also don't need to wear a mask,  people smoking or having snacks ( away from bars / restaurants ) are also usually chatting while doing so, without a mask.

At the moment,  the second wave is happening here,  and because people of the at risk age-groups and people who have relevant health conditions,  have been infected, the hospitals will again be faced with the possibility of collapsing due to the high number of hospitalizations.

MAIN POINT - With my idea of intentionally running the virus through the community ( while protecting the at risks groups ), a lot of people would be infected,  but theoretically much much fewer people would require any hospitalization .

THE WEAK POINT OF MY PLAN - The age group, 50 - 65-? which is part of the workforce ( and people with relevant health conditions in the workforce ), how would you sufficiently protect this age group from being infected while running the virus through the community,  there probably would be methods of protecting them etc.

 - With my idea, there is a degree of unpredictability, of numbers of hospitalizations that would occur,  THAT IS IDENTICAL to what is happening at the moment,  with the second wave that is occurring here,  however,  I do suspect that my plan would theoretically involve much lower risk, much lower numbers of hospitalizations( not to mention getting rid of the virus quite quickly, although admittedly I know nothing about the issue of individuals being re-infected etc )
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 04:33:00 AM by unsure »

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Offline unsure

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MISCELLANEOUS
If someone is known to not be friendly ( there's probably more accurate words to describe that ) due to some situation,  less friendly than they would otherwise be without the situation,  then surely the options to arrange a meeting / chat would be -
- A normal Text message, if,  this person is known to NOT HAVE WhatsApp
- A phone call
- An email, even though this person may only check their email approximately once a week

It seems various people find that difficult to understand,  etc,  something that seems to have occurred on various occasions recently and in the past    .

__________

I noticed a protest against Face-masks.  Why not include the alternate option of  Plastic Face-Shields  in the protest, as I detailed on the https://overunity.com/18555/pandemic-can-anyone-design-a-satisfactorily-safe-and-cheap-plastic-face-shield  thread  .
   Plastic Face-Shields are a good enough longer term solution,  however,  there is the problem for many people that they can damage their own clothing with the plastic edge of the Plastic Face-Shields,  even though it is smooth and curved, some people can still damage their own clothing etc,  why can't a Plastic Face-Shield be designed that eliminates that problem.
    Also, are people suggesting no Face-masks or Plastic Face-Shields, is it a fake virus, it does not seem fake .

    - I noticed a detail that I forgot on my  'Run the virus through the community' model,  that is that many of the  'vulnerable to the virus age group people'  do live with their family which are often people under 50,  however, I assume that services or protocols could be provided so that the  'vulnerable to the virus age group people'  could be shielded from the virus,  although,  I'm obviously no expert or anything. 

Offline onepower

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Quote
I noticed a protest against Face-masks.  Why not include the alternate option of  Plastic Face-Shields  in the protest, as I detailed on the https://overunity.com/18555/pandemic-can-anyone-design-a-satisfactorily-safe-and-cheap-plastic-face-shield  thread  .
   Plastic Face-Shields are a good enough longer term solution,  however,  there is the problem for many people that they can damage their own clothing with the plastic edge of the Plastic Face-Shields,  even though it is smooth and curved, some people can still damage their own clothing etc,  why can't a Plastic Face-Shield be designed that eliminates that problem.
Also, are people suggesting no Face-masks or Plastic Face-Shields, is it a fake virus, it does not seem fake .

The protests against face masks and fake virus conspiracy theories have nothing to do with science more so politics. Donny trump and his populist friends like Bolsonaro and Putin put the economy and there only chance of reelection before human lives. Then when the virus went pandemic they got caught with there pants down and looked stupid. So they made up some bs excuses there gullible supporters could rally behind and they did. So no face masks, gathering in large numbers and Covid conspiracies are there way of saying they support there populist leaders despite the dangers to human lives and the facts.

However you nailed one aspect with regards to the elderly who are the most affected group. You see when the populists ignored the science many got infected which then infected there family and friends. Thus they are responsible for killing there own family, parents and grand parents who got infected and died. Now were starting to see the fallout of there ignorance as more people lose the one's they love and come to understand they were being lied to. Many have said there loved one's were avid trump supporters who ignored the science and now there dead. I get it, it's wonderful to believe in imaginary things however when our actions start killing innocent people, more so the one's we love that goes beyond ignorance right into sadistic and cruel behavior.

So I would say, believe the bs if you want, roll the dice but when someone you love dies because of your stupidity you own that shit. I would also say don't think for a minute anyone is going to forget what they have done and they will be judged. Does anyone think I or anyone else would forgive the complete and utter ignorance and disregard for the facts if there actions killed someone we love?. Nobody could possibly be that stupid... in my opinion.

There will be a reckoning, everything always comes full circle and people need to decide which side of history they want to be on.

Regards

Offline unsure

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  - I noticed a detail that I forgot on my  'Run the virus through the community' model,  that is that many of the  'vulnerable to the virus age group people'  do live with their family which are often people under 50,  however, I assume that services or protocols could be provided so that the  'vulnerable to the virus age group people'  could be shielded from the virus,  although,  I'm obviously no expert or anything.


I recently realized an obvious option, for the weak point in my  'Run The Virus Through The Community' Model,  which is in the quote above .
   The obvious option, would be to temporarily put  'Those Vulnerable To The Virus'( With One Carer ) who live with their family/relatives,  into community-sports-facilities, universities, schools etc,  which would not be used while 'Running The Virus Through The Community'.
       NOTE - In the paragraph above, I typed ( With One Carer ), if desired, so that would make that detail more acceptable .
_____

If anyone else, groups or individuals, have published / raised this idea ( like my idea ) against the virus, it would be very interesting to see the details / model they have.   And obviously,  if any of them have actual relevant qualifications etc, then it would also be interesting to see their plan.
   Crunching the numbers, it just seems that this idea of  'Running The Virus Through The Community', I have detailed in this thread, just seems much better than the current strategies, much less people dying, much less time wasted,  much less damage to communities etc.
   If anyone knows of a similar idea, by any groups or individuals, then please post links so people can examine them .
     

Offline Floor

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2 cents
Its nice to see some real communication on the forum again.
  thanks
    floor

 

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