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Author Topic: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment  (Read 2249 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2020, 01:56:11 AM »
As for health issues with these devices, perhaps it is freq related such as Tesla talked about.  Good eff can be had below 20khz. Higher than say 50k, then you just built a radio station and are in close proximity. I like to stay low freq.  So maybe there could be changes to make it lower freq?
There are power supplies that can run near 150khz.  not sure its necessary, other than the need for a super stable output for sensitive equipment.

Mags
I have some theories on the car Tesla had in 1938.  The electric motor was 3ft wide and 2 ft long. Good torque and an AC motor.  I would think that since it is an AC motor, if you wound it bifi so the stators and or rotor were able to resonate at the same freq, maybe all you would have to do is apply pulses to the motor windings and the motor runs on its own ac currents by way of the oscillations of the excited bifi coils.  Something that large, I imagine anyway, would most likely be below 20khz. In the various versions of the story, if it were below 15khz, there may have been mention of that sound when it was running. My ebike, I can hear the 15khz when it is full throttle.
I have steered away from the NMR as some in the past claimed headaches and such.

Mags

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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2020, 02:23:45 AM »
Thanks Mags


The frequencies of concern in this device are as follows:
(as it pertains to mutations of the original 1902 technology)


The higher harmonics of the 200Hz frequency.
This is due to the switching frequency, being a multiple of 50
Which happens to ring in right at the 800 Hz node. (16 coil distributor)
So the most intense radiation will emanate from higher harmonics of 800Hz


The danger to us is in the ultrasonic range and above
Which will be captured 100% by microwave oven shielding.


Different variations of coils and switching mechanisms will produce harmonics of other frequencies.


Our Swami may know of a book in his country that speaks of the frequencies and their effects on the human body, as was known to them thousands of years ago.




But.....   back to the technology:::




Once you understand what it is we are doing, you can arrange the coils on a Toroid as in the image below:


The pick-up coil can be wound Bi-Filar, as recommended by our Swami and confirmed by historical research.
The second image shows the bi-filar arrangement such that the magnetic field of the first coil opposes that of the second.
A center tap can be placed at the junction for test purposes.



Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2020, 10:24:55 AM »
Thanks for sharing guys!
I wonder. Is a Faraday cage adequate for suppressing those fields?
Personally i feel the more head pain when i fire with very thin pulses my ferrite cores. On the other hand when i am doing that i don't usually let my contraptions operating for more than 1 minute. It is enough for me to capture the waveform and analyze it. ::)





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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2020, 10:24:55 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2020, 04:17:45 PM »
Thanks for sharing guys!
I wonder. Is a Faraday cage adequate for suppressing those fields?
Personally i feel the more head pain when i fire with very thin pulses my ferrite cores. On the other hand when i am doing that i don't usually let my contraptions operating for more than 1 minute. It is enough for me to capture the waveform and analyze it. ::)


Yes but only in an advanced technical form.
I’ll try to explain:


The “faraday cage”, in and of itself, is only capable of blocking / diverting a specific frequency or range of frequencies, depending upon the material and physical construct.
What would be required here would be several layers of cages of varying allowance bands.
To cover broad spectrum emissions.


Plate metal shielding provides greater coverage with less physical complications.
We dont need a lead wall, (x-ray machine), because:
 we arent hitting quite that high of frequencies or energy levels.


Microwave shielding may be the cheapest and easiest form of protection.
Or other similar multi-layer shielding made of a ferrous material.


Non-ferrous materials will block em of high frequency and energy,
However, such materials will NOT block lower frequency, low energy magnetic fields.
Nor can they block extremely high frequency, high energy magnetic fields - which is why it is used in the microwave oven.
Microwaves are different, in that they carry a heavy portion of the magnetic field with the em.


Faraday cages are designed more for things like radio waves, electronic communications emissions, etc. that carry most of their energy in the electric - rather than the magnetic domain.


Circuits like this require magnetic, rather than electric shielding.


I hope that makes sense


The casing from a desktop computer would provide more than adequate protection, at a much greater cost.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2020, 04:24:52 PM »
Most of this is described in the current F.C.C. Mandates
But from the perspective of guidelines to follow, with no differentiation between safety regulations and law’s intended to prevent interference.


But if those rules are followed, both situations are (mostly) covered,
to within a specified distance from whatever device you construct.


There are electronics engineering books that talk about how to implement shielding without major electrical cost or interference with internal circuit operations.
If your shielding causes a “drain” or other negative effects, this knowledge can be useful.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2020, 04:24:52 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2020, 04:26:49 PM »

The casing from a desktop computer would provide more than adequate protection, at a much greater cost.
Thanks for the info smoky!
Does the case need grounding of some short?

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2020, 04:28:32 PM »
Thanks for the info smoky!
Does the case need grounding of some short?


If you did it would only be to the common of the battery circuit.
So long as you arent powering it from the utility mains,
there should be no need for a true ‘earth ground’

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2020, 04:28:32 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2020, 04:32:05 PM »
Cool! I think i'll modify my bench for safer experiments. Thanks a lot! ;)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2020, 04:32:07 PM »

If you did it would only be to the common of the battery circuit.
So long as you arent powering it from the utility mains,
there should be no need for a true ‘earth ground’


If you look at how the electronics ate grounded when there is a power supply or voltage converter or sorts, the case is only grounded to the converted source, not the ground plug of the 3-prong


The POWER supply, however, is grounded on the back end, which is why if you have something like a 120 to 12v converter you may see 3 in the wall and only a + and - on the 12v side.
The 12v circuit (if grounded) is then grounded to the (-) of the 12v.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2020, 04:32:07 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2020, 04:34:22 PM »
Also:
If you earth ground a battery circuit anywhere close to civilization,
You are introducing a potential voltage.

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 07:14:58 AM »
I think I have to clarify this

I have tried to experiment with saturated cores..how long they will take to heat up etc..

I think it is this that has created the problem

We can easily avoid it by a shielding or just by standing away at a distance

Magnetic fields very quickly dissipate with increasing distance

I also had prior health problems that got aggravated..other healthy staff who are younger and who worked with me are not affected..

So it's not very scary..most researchers are not young...so if you are quite young and healthy and fit just standing away at a distance with a grounded metal plate should block these fields..

Frequency is only 50 Hz but it's the intensity of the magnetic fields that are worrying

The pick up coil..if it means secondary coil then your understanding is not correct about multifilar coils

A multifilar coil actually increases the inductive impedance in AC. It requires alot of voltage for the same current to flow through it and prevents or reduces the flow of current at lower voltage.. This inductive impedance is not present if we used pulsed DC..when we put a diode bridge  to AC the output from that is pulsed DC.. this is my understanding and probably my terminology is wrong..I apologise for any mistakes.. secondary or output coil if made bifilar or multifilar shows lot of voltage but once we give any load shows zero voltage..no use..

No..very low voltage experiments don't produce any results..I started with 12 and then went to 40 and then moved to 220..I didn't dare to go beyond that..In Tesla coil we have gone to 7500 volts AC but it's so fully shielded and 100 milliamps small transformer and the resulting radio frequency Tesla coil we limited to 120000 volts.. radio frequency and so not much to worry..we were able to draw sparks upto 4 inches but as it's radio frequency and testing is fir seconds only nothing to worry. These were done with Electrical Engineer trained in high voltage..

Hendershot was reported to have used 1600 volts and Hubbard 11500 volts but this kind of information very quickly disappeared..

McFarland Cook patent is believed to be incomplete..he talks about giving an initial input and then says the electrimagnets remain self oscillating.. this is possible only if very large and very high voltage and very high capacity capacitor bank is used. There were at least four sets of coils and the presence of capacitor bank is required to create an illusion of motor generator kind of thing..the system would be oscillated only so long as the capacitor bank is not discharged. My impression was that at that time saturating the core would have been a technical problem to be solved and saturation of core was required to make a powerful permanent magnet..

This type of large and very high capacity capacitor technology is reported to be lost..it would have been taken out of literature..
There's no instance of Cook device being used anywhere..

I have not trusted anything written anywhere by anyone but experimented and verified..most of the time I and Patrick found only misinformation being presented as the correct information..

No one would give away technology and most of the time it is delay,divert, deviate, disrupt and make it obsolete to be used in technology..

The only free energy device is the Tesla's Radiant Energy Device patent application.

Even here Patrick was very insistent that the top plate is a capacitor bank of high capacity to which spark from a Tesla coil was employed.. Patrick was insistent that Don Smith demonstrated that using this method anywhere from 100-1000 amps would flow from the capacitor to the ground.. Tesla coil needs high voltage and not current..but there's no indication about the capacitor plate at the top in Tesla's Patent application. There's obviously no information available about the capacitor.

Therefore please don't believe anything that you read.. experimental results triumph every thing written..

Patent or non Patent disinformation is common..

Patrick believed one description of a device to be very genuine coming from a very honest person..

When I built the device each step of the way we had to send him photos for him to verify that the turns are wound properly and the number of turns matched the description..

When we built and tested it it didn't work..in fact electromagnets in half the place failed to magnetize while the rest were magnetized. Information provided to him was not accurate. I have spent a lot of money and time on this and Patrick was disappointed to say the least. Offered to reimburse me which I declined.

This is for very trustworthy information given in confidence. You can very well imagine what is the credibility of info written in other places..

Experiment verify and then only you can trust it.

A self runner would need high voltage,high voltage capacitors, bleeding resistors for safety, spark plug to drain excess current if any, a tertiary that cannot be seen by Primary..these are minimum requirements..

I am told that I am not entitled to do research at high voltage..I was told to limit myself to 12 volt DC or 40 volt AC. This is what Patrick also stipulated..As there was nothing to learn I went upto 220 volts.

Therefore no self runner.

A tabletop self runner means that the builder is an expert.. Tariel kapanadze and our good friend Nelson Rocha are the only people who demonstrated it many years ago..lots of testing and competence required for this..I tried to use low voltage very large and very low current saturated magnets but it didn't work..

Any every time we measured more output than input by the combination of secondary and tertiary coil Patrick would say no notes disassemble and forget..so no memory with me either..but it's possible to build more output in combination than input devices.. even at lower voltage levels..

Anyway only thing that I do today is why did I do all these crazy things.. lots of knowledge but no use..any experimenter must realise that this is a money draining learning curve and avoid it unless they can write it off.
Not all experiments are successful. Unless you have financial support don't do this

A free energy device is the simple solar panels based device available commercially. No risk of high voltage or large Electromagnetic fields. However unpalatable this is the reality. I could have easily purchased a 10-12 kilowatts solar panels based device for this expenses but knowledge would not be available. But at least your family would not find fault with you for the expenses incurred. So you have to take all these in to account before you invest your energy time and money.

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan



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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 07:14:58 AM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2020, 01:40:35 PM »
Any every time we measured more output than input by the combination of secondary and tertiary coil

Mr Ramaswami
May i ask what do you mean by "tertiary coil" that is not being seeing by the primary? Is that some kind of a choke or transformer in series with the secondary? Did you use it as a mean to extract the reactive power?

Thanks in advance
Jeg

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2020, 05:38:15 PM »
Sir

I apologise..I might have forgotten about these things..long time ago I was studying these things..

Please try to find out if I have misled you by winding the simple induction coil where the secondary is wound on both sides of the multifilar primary

Please ascertain if the secondary merges..

Please see if my memory is correct that it may be possible to exceed the input if we reach the twice the voltage of input at the output..

These are things that I tested many years back..due to poor health I have not been active in this field..

My experience was that we need to jump in to the water even to attempt to learn to swim..

Please find out for yourself if I am speaking truthfully or misleading you..

To attempt to answer your question Thane Heins  transformer stated in the book of Patrick comes to mind.. please check it. Not everything may be true and you will have to find out yourself.. many typos and my apologies

I am very grateful for your trust but I am not sure of my own memory..so much of time has passed..

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan

Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2020, 05:59:20 PM »
Sir NR
I really don't want to bother you more on this as you already have enough concerns in your own personal life. I already understood the basic points of your experiments and it would be really amazing if something innovative will occur out of this approach. Yes, the only way out is personal involvement and testing. I wish you the best and take care! :)

Jeg


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2020, 10:16:09 PM »
As far as i can tell, the Clemente devices were all pulsed DC from a 12v battery
or equivalent voltaic stack


the distributor-style contact points were abrupt and caused a great deal of friction and sparks
these devices are not dissimilar to the device that eventually made its way into the automotive industry. The 16-stage distributor from a diesel truck would be a very close replacement to the original “part 3”, timing would be adjusted by a resistor to the small motor one would use to replace the rotary action caused by the engines crankshaft, or by using a magnetic potential between the needle and positions around the switch, as one done in the late 19th century.


Digital conversion will result in slightly different waveforms, but im fairly certain the effect we are experimenting with is not inherently frequency dependent, as Tesla pointed out with 60Hz application, but rather a function of induction, capacitance, and reluctance.


it is correct to say that the inductee’ (pick-up coil, secondary, output whatever you call it) determines the timing.
The time it takes to saturate the secondary coil is the amount of time the first primary is electrified.
The time it takes to desaturate the secondary coil is the amount of time the second primary is electrified in opposite polarity.
[please note here that the clemente drawings, as well as my own show both primary coils as separate, however they can be a reversed multifilar coil in the same manner as i show for the secondary]
Mathematically, maxwell predicts a time between saturation and desaturation, where the current changes direction, but its value is so minute as to not be of our concern in the circuit timing of our devices.


The situation this device creates could be called an “assisted desaturation” of the secondary coil.
This increases the output current in the same step we are increasing the voltage by adding the secondary in series.
A meter at the ‘center tap’ of each secondary should show not only a voltage increase, but an increase in power, at each junction.






 

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