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Author Topic: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment  (Read 6240 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2020, 10:18:59 PM »
Also, the output of the Clemente Figuera device was just under 400v from all known accurate accounts

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2020, 09:10:03 AM »
Hi Smoky
May i ask why is so important to saturate the iron core? What saturation offers? I have seen it a lot in similar OU devices. I remember a guy from here stating that as we go to the saturation point inductances go less and less and so the opposition between prims and secs consequently is also decreasing. But this by itself doesn't look as a reason for extra energy. Is it the heat that triggers any kind of atomic or other reactions?

Thanks is advance
Jeg 

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2020, 06:31:29 PM »
Regarding Figuera device the input was interrupted DC from a battery bank about 100 volts and 1amp dc input.. through a resistance coil circuit the voltage was increased..high voltage magnetic fields were used in permanent magnet cores..

My observation was that iron becomes a permanent magnet when subjected to DC and dies not appear to lose magnetism in interuppted DC in high current low voltage experiments..

In pulsed DC and AC it is an electromagnet that loses magnetism or retained very small magnetic field when we stop current.

I was unable to do Figuera device for I didn't feel it prudent to experiment with high voltage magnetic fields. The space available was limited.

Otherwise the patent application is accurate for application by interuppted DC..Car components should work fine but we could not find the carbon brushes that will withstand the sparks.. possibly low voltage DC would reduce the sparks.. This is something that someone can try.

We can get output voltage as desired which is limited only by our funding constraints. 

If we use AC the circuit will be slightly different but the principles are same.
Again one of space and funding constraints. This is something that is possible to do.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2020, 06:31:29 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2020, 12:13:00 AM »
Hi Smoky
May i ask why is so important to saturate the iron core? What saturation offers? I have seen it a lot in similar OU devices. I remember a guy from here stating that as we go to the saturation point inductances go less and less and so the opposition between prims and secs consequently is also decreasing. But this by itself doesn't look as a reason for extra energy. Is it the heat that triggers any kind of atomic or other reactions?

Thanks is advance
Jeg


Doesnt have to be iron, you can use air core


you could probably experiment with the effect without ever reaching full saturation
though one would question why




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2020, 12:20:04 AM »
Ceramic ferrite cores can switch faster than the low frequency used here
A hard iron, and even some soft iron may hold residual magnetism or not switch before the next pulse


Such is trivial, as a residual field will decrease inductance in one polarity and increase it in the other
Making it essentially balance out because our coil is 1/2 reversed.


For maximum efficiency, i think you would want a core that can keep up with the frequency of the device, but that’s my engineering mind talking, when it comes to FE, the logical is not always the right answer.


Theres still a lot of chaos in my city, but as things calm down i will gather a few basic components for a demo test device, that should shed more light on this issue.
What i am aiming for is the simplest form to demonstrate the effect
Then we can build it larger to achieve the results we desire

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2020, 12:20:04 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2020, 09:49:13 PM »
..high voltage magnetic fields were used in permanent magnet cores..



As we know from electronic acoustic engineering,
this will place a physical force on the coil opposing the magnet.


If you managed to hold the coil stationary, the same amount of energy
would still be lost applying force to an immovable object.


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2020, 09:53:27 AM »
Sir

Very respectfully I have no theoretical knowledge. I don't even understand what you have written.

My knowledge is limited to conducting some experiments as desired by Patrick. All he suggested were failures. The only device Multiple Wave Oscillator was successful when built as indicated.

In view of the inaccurate information received by him and believed to be true by him, Patrick asked me to play around and try to learn the following.

Building an Electromagnet
Building a permanent magnet
Building a powerful Electromagnet
Building a Powerful Electromagnet using the minimum amount of wattage.
Attempting to build a COP>1 device

I was left to my own imaginations to do these things and no instructions were given.

I have done all these things within four months starting from the scratch in 2013.

Experimental validation and experimental results were deemed to be the truth and I ignored what is stated in the books for I did not understand much of it or most of it.

I have read Mr. Forest saying that induced EMF comes only from the strength of the magnetic field and this is correct.

I apologize that I'm not able to understand or answer what you have written. No longer interested in this subject as this only drains my energy and money.

Regards,

Ramaswami


 
 


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2020, 09:53:27 AM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2020, 10:26:43 AM »
Sir

Are you saying some thing about a single system..

What is single system

One transformer

containing one primary and one secondary where the coils of wire are of equal weight regardless of the gauge or number of turns.

In this kind of devices output cannot exceed input.

Output in this type of cases will always be less than input

It is simple. Straightforward.

This is the kind of things discussed in books.

I ignored the books and played around by experimenting with different types of windings devices shapes et al.

Nothing spectacular about that. If you give a toy to a kid and tell him to play with it,  the child is very joyful and plays around with it.. If you tell him that he can make and brake and create a lot of shapes the creativity of the kid makes it do a lot of things. This is what I did. Subject is very addictive but very expensive to experiment and very time consuming.

Unfortunately I did not study Maths and so do not understand calculations. Many times I thought the results received by putting in values to online calculators were wrong but I could not understand these things. very sorry about that.

My understanding is that what I write you may not understand and what you write I do not understand..

Regards,

Ramaswami Natarajan

Offline onepower

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2020, 06:46:50 PM »
NRamaswami
Quote
Building an Electromagnet
Building a permanent magnet
Building a powerful Electromagnet
Building a Powerful Electromagnet using the minimum amount of wattage.
Attempting to build a COP>1 device

Magnets are peculiar things. It takes energy to produce a permanent magnet and yet many say it has no energy within it. This would seem to violate the conservation of energy because as they also say, energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transformed. So if we produced a permanent magnet by adding energy the energy must remain with the magnet and it's field which also implies the energy can be removed because energy is conserved. A magnetic energy storage device if you will.

Strange isn't it?, that some would claim to believe energy is always conserved in every form then in the next breath imply it wasn't in a permanent magnet. So, which is it?... is energy conserved or is it not?.

Regards


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2020, 06:46:50 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2020, 08:59:05 PM »
Sir

I don't understand your point really.

My observation is that a substantial force is available in the permanent magnet. It appears to have a life of its own if I may say so.

A permanent magnet is able to recognise the presence of an electomagnet even when it's five to six feet away from an electromagnet and starts vibrating.

Opposite poles jump towards each other even when they are kept 9 to 10 inches with great force and the magnet is damaged.

Identical poles repel eachnother turn so the opposite poles can look at each other and then jump towards each other so they can form a large permanent magnet.

I tend to believe that some kind of energy is present in nature. When a permanent magnet is made the magnet starts acting like a focusing lens kind of device. The energy appears to move in one direction from one pole to another.

When opposite poles are shown the magnet jumps to form a bigger magnet so the energy can easily flow. Identical poles try to prevent the flow abd so they repel each other turnaround and then merge to form a larger magnet.

Therefore I believe that a significant silent energy flow from the energy of nature is present in the permanent magnet.

Patrick Kelly would repeatedly point out that only one second DC current is needed to make a permanent magnet. After that unless heated it will always remain a permanent magnet.

This is why I think that there's a concentrated energy flow within the permanent magnet.

Please note that this is my belief. I have no proof.

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan


Offline onepower

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2020, 10:21:53 PM »
NRamaswami
Quote
I don't understand your point really.
My observation is that a substantial force is available in the permanent magnet. It appears to have a life of its own if I may say so.

My point was that if we put energy into something that energy cannot simply disappear otherwise the Conservation Of Energy would be violated. So when people say the magnet stuck on your fridge has no energy they are obviously mistaken and don't understand the COE.

As well, concerning the force from a permanent magnet. A force is not energy unless said force has caused something to move through a distance which is work and this work occurs over a period of time. In a permanent magnet the input energy causes the electron orbits to align and form domains which are held in place. The electron orbit constitutes an electron current moving in a circle just like one turn of a coil in an electromagnet, both produce a magnetic field. This is how the COE applies to the formation of a permanent magnet and the input energy didn't produce the electrons motion it only aligned the circular paths of electrons already present.

Quote
Patrick Kelly would repeatedly point out that only one second DC current is needed to make a permanent magnet. After that unless heated it will always remain a permanent magnet.

I would agree we only need to add energy once to create a permanent magnet. However there are many ways to remove the magnetism and recover the energy we put in beyond something as primitive as heating it up. Many inventors in the past have done it and called it a permanent electromagnet, lol. Can you imagine that, a permanent electromagnet following the same natural principals as the fixed electron orbits in a permanent magnet.

You see knowledge and understanding is the key which opens the door to Free Energy not beliefs. As Victor Schauberger said... Comprehend and copy nature, do the opposite of what man does. Learn how to produce a magnet then learn how to reduce it like nature does. Understand that the Conservation Of Energy demands there can be no more or less energy in the universe than was already present. All which happens around us, all the work which has ever been done has not diminished the amount of energy present... only transformed it.

Regards




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2020, 10:21:53 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2020, 05:07:36 AM »
Sir

I agree with you. However I can only observe what happens when I do this or that. Only that I can accept. Heating a magnet removes magnetism works regardless of whether it's primitive or sophisticated. I look at what works within my budget.

A free energy device appears to be a device that would continuously output energy without input. A one-time input to create a permanent magnet is fine.

This can be done is my belief not direct experience if we can use high voltage and saturated magnetic fields. I have no expertise nor safety equipment nor funds nor have we I trained manpower. I am also not comfortable with working in saturated magnetic fields.

Actually on July 3, 2020 I apologized to Patrick that I have no funds and can't do anything to reassemble the induction coils and try to replicate whatever we did many years ago. Then when I received some funds I agreed to redo the experiment and emailed him twice. No response. Another friend of Patrick complained to me that he is not responding unlike his normal habit of answering emails. I came here to pm a friend of Patrick here and it's how I got to know he passed away. We have honoured him by redoing one experiment. It worked as expected.

With great respect whatever is in the books is disabling information. You appear to know something when you say permanent electromagnet.

I can do it. But it requires high voltage magnetic fields that may have to be saturated and it's very dangerous and we will need to hire high voltage engineers. Must have access to a lot of space.

I agree that this will not be required if we use high frequency fields and ferrite cores.

Again there are no funds.

I have no intention to take funds as loans and do these experiments. There is no guarantee of results and it does not currently appear that I can repay loans if taken. Never ever will take donations. That's a sure way of spoiling good name.

So yes high voltage high frequency device can work. I don't know how to calculate or do these things in a precise and safe way.

Not even sure if high voltage magnetic fields are safe at high frequency. I have seen pictures of Don Smith with air cores. Probably the ferrite cores are removed there.

I had a suspicion that a part of devices alone were shown by Don Smith and not the whole.

It's not very difficult to make permanent electromagnet. It is because of the Inherent and unknown risk I have never done anything for many years.

Also I don't know if what I assume is correct. Many times assumptions were proven to be wrong.

So experimental validation is required to make permanent electromagnet but it's risky. I don't have that kind of knowledge nor money nor desire.

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan


Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2020, 10:49:21 AM »
Actually I'm really surprised..

It is not necessary to build a COP>1 device to build a permanent electromagnet.

This is how I got in to this mess..

I knew nothing about anything related to Electricity.

In 2013, I and mother had to sleep in the bed room in my office as my relatives had come to stay with us due to inadequate space at home. My office is in my first apartment bought by me and my wife.  My mother was sleeping on the cot and I was sleeping on a mattress on the floor.

When I woke up I saw a very little very small very old black man of about 9 inches to 1 feet in size sitting at about six feet high in the air from my foot with his back to me and trying to eat some nuts like things..I got frightened and started screaming that he is eating he is eating..My mother woke up and was rattled by my screams.

Why are you shouting she asked

He is eating he is eating was my reply in panic

The old man was visible to me but my mother saw none

There's no one here was what she said..

Then I showed my finger at the old man he is here he is here

It is only then the old man realised that I have seen him..my finger pointing at him has made him realise that.

He turned his head looking at me and was surprised that I have seen him and very slowly moved towards the west and disintegrated into air.. I could see him slowly disintegrating and disappearing..my mother could not. He did not attack or threaten or say anything..just ate some and disappeared..

I am very charitable person and I contribute every week something to feed the poor. Not less than $100-120 per month. I was ashamed that I screamed like that but didn't know why. I was scared any way.

I couldn't sleep after that and I tried to study something online and found free energy website of Patrick and kept studying..I was astonished by the contents and contacted Patrick.

Patrick wanted me to learn Electrical science and build Figuera and Hubbard devices and spent a lot of time teaching and guiding me..I started spending money to build these devices and acquired a lot of knowledge. I am not a wealthy man and this kind of experiments and expenses were considered to be an insane activity of a person hit by some spirit by my family and therefore there's no support from them.

I myself don't know what compelled me to spend like this and I am equally puzzled that Patrick spent his time like this with me. Probably 700 emails in three to four months from starting..Probably some scientist who passed away wanted this and we did this.. there's no justification for the efforts and the expenses incurred by me. I even borrowed and spent.

I have been reasonably successful in trying to obtain results We have done by July end 2013 itself. Within four months of starting from scratch without any bookish knowledge and Patrick himself only initiated me..He had great faith in Cater Hubbard device and it was a dud. He also did not know much. I some how step by step did whatever is needed to learn and understand to achieve the desired objective.

They Electrical Engineer who worked with me at that time passed away and he was the person with me when we both measured anomalous results twice. My health was falling and then I stopped the experiment. Electrical Engineer Narayanan himself went through three gastric bypass surgeries, elected not to marry because of anticipated short life span but this was shocking to me. To honour Patrick we did a reverification experiment last Saturday here. Yes it was successful and our understanding was perfect and the results are as expected. 

I'm aware that COP>1 device can be easily built and we have built it and experimented it on load and dismissed it as measurement or instrument error. No one is doing it..It is simple induction coil with a multifilar primary and secondary is wound on both sides of the primary.
You are not going to agree that it can be COP>1 The excess energy is present and it appears to come from the environment. But it is my belief. Nothing more. Even excess energy will be deemed to be impossible.   

Most of the scientists here seem to be retired scientists who are very passionate about this field..But they appear to be old and not having any funds and not capable of doing any thing..Alternatively they know what has to be done but because of the contractual obligations just keep quiet. Some here appear to have a background in Armed Forces and are probably retired.

But I'm not comforted here. Many seem to know a lof then they write. So let me move away from here.. Some scieinist fellow who passed away and who wanted to transfer the knowledge has dumped it on me. Not a good feeling.

I have written all that is required for you all except one thing. This I have calculated to be correct. No notes no simulation but mere mental calculation is sufficient for me. It is bound to work. It has already worked for others. I myself have not done this for fear that this can lead to fire or excessive voltage and excessive magnetic field. We neither have space nor expertise to take this risk..

So when some one actually builds and tests something you please let me know. There is no use of talking. Test the induction coil I indicated. That will do.

Regards,

Ramaswami


Offline ramset

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2020, 03:43:10 PM »
Ramaswami
Thank you for sharing the experience which brought you to this study ..we are all of different life experience here..

 But of one mind when it comes to the goal.[forum mission statement above..
most certainly some experiments will follow..I recently had some wire arrive
thank you

Chet K

 

Offline onepower

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2020, 03:12:54 AM »
Ramaswami
Quote
Most of the scientists here seem to be retired scientists who are very passionate about this field..But they appear to be old and not having any funds and not capable of doing any thing..Alternatively they know what has to be done but because of the contractual obligations just keep quiet. Some here appear to have a background in Armed Forces and are probably retired.

Many FE inventors in the past had little more than wood, cotton wrapped wire, wax insulation and mechanical interrupters and managed to prove the technology. Many worked all day and had to do there experiments at night by candle light for decades. In fact the average dump has more materials than most FE inventors of the past could possibly have dreamed of. We have global communications and more information at our fingertips than anyone in the past could even imagine and yet ... here we are.

Obviously money isn't the problem, in fact it never was because money cannot buy true knowledge and understanding.

Regards

 

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