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Author Topic: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment  (Read 4164 times)

Offline ramset

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An apparent anomaly which was supported and mentored by Patrick Kelly, will be discussed here [and elsewhere] in the coming weeks.

Did send a note to Stefan to discuss this topic moving forward.
see also memorial page here  https://overunity.com/18545/in-memoriam-patrick-kelly/msg548523/#new



respectfully  Chet K


 

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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2020, 09:29:56 AM »
I am very grateful for the opportunity to write about the devices Patrick Kelly was personally interested in..

These are the

Hubbard device

Figuera device

Multiple wave oscillator

All are discussed..I have experimented with all.

I have dismantled the Hubbard device and Figuera device and I have a multiple wave oscillator as described in chapter on health intact..the adjustable spark plugs have to be
built.

We are under a lockdown where we are all asked to work from home. I need some time to rebuild the modules for Figuera device and Hubbard device. The modules are basically induction coils.

I will complete each module, state construction details and photos and videos for each one and finally the interconnections

As the entire world is under some type of lockdown I believe that this will also enable every one interested to be able to replicate and test and see if what I state is correct information or not.

90-95% of this effort was funded by me but when due to poor health and financial condition I gave up Patrick and two other friends insisted that I continue. When I recovered I offered to return it but Patrick Kelly and the other two friends refused to accept repayment.

I handled large but low cost and simple to build electromagnets that oscillated at 50 Hz. These are quite dangerous in the sense that we don't realise that they can affect our physiological systems adversely. If you elect to build and test it you would be doing so on your own volition. If you build and test please stand away at least 8-10 feet away from the field. It causes physical inability.

I will be posting from next week. My apologies for the delay.

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan
 

Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2020, 12:19:03 PM »

 These are quite dangerous in the sense that we don't realise that they can affect our physiological systems adversely.

Ramaswami Natarajan

Hi Sir
Thanks a lot for your intentions to share your experience on electromagnets. You have already our full attention after your yesterday's statement about the multifilar primaries and thicker secondaries. It is something new to me as i was born with the notion that primary and secondary have to have the same weight. Looking forward for your tests and experimental devices.

Best Regards
Jeg

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2020, 12:19:03 PM »
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Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 05:10:34 PM »
I apologise.

I have no theoretical knowledge. I have not followed any rules for I didn't know them. You just put some body to experiment ask him to observe and learn and improve that's what I did.

I just experimented, failed, observed and improved.. Patrick guided.. because of this there's no notes. No need to worry about anything for I had nothing to worry as I am neither a scientist nor an Engineer nor employed. I am a simple Lawyer trying to experiment and observe. In

No simulation for I didn't know nor do I know as of I now how to do simulation. All observations are based on experimental results.

You will need to experiment and ascertain if what I say is correct. I have stopped doing anything form a few years now due to poor health and finances and had to focus on my health and practice of Law. If you ask any theoretical questions I will not know anything.

This was a tremendous advantage to attempt to learn what works, how and why as I understand them and not based on any books.

I can share the following experiment done many years ago

I shared it with Ramset

Target Greater than 1 COP

Please buy a thick plastic tube 18 inches long 4 inches diameter

Wind 4 sq mm insulated copper wire CCW

You may get about 87 to 89 turns per layer

Wind 12 layers

This is the secondary

Wind a 4 filar coil of 4 sq mm wire on the secondary. Each coil should be 90 to 100 metres long in primary

Put iron rods and hammer them into the plastic tube

If you create an electromagnet for 50 Hz 220 volt input you will draw 15 amps.in primary

The load will be approximately 3000 watts in output but you can load up to 17 incandescent bulbs of 200 watts each. You will probably get 300 volts and 10 amps in secondary

91% efficiency. No theoretical problem here..

How would you increase the efficiency? Test and observe and then let me know. No magnetic amplifier..

Please try to actually build and experiment..This will take your time.

Let me know how you would increase the efficiency. Us ut possible to increase it to greater than 100% efficiency? How?

Simple device..

But I will come back only after Saturday..

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan








Offline ramset

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 05:36:27 PM »
Ramaswami
yes you "just" sent this to me and I am glad you posted here...

thank you
Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 05:36:27 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 07:43:58 PM »

Let me know how you would increase the efficiency. Is it possible to increase it to greater than 100% efficiency? How?


..."It is a fact that Patrick taught me Electromagnetism not as you study it in college but in a practical step by step construction of electromagnets. Very baby steps but then I started winding coils by hand and learnt it.

Please focus on the Figuera device shape.

All primaries are to be wound with multifilar coils. All from top to bottom. Please use North South orientation. North pole of one primary to face the south pole of next primary. Use multifilar coils for primary and thick secondary coil to get high voltage. Output would be higher than input when the voltage in the secondary exceeds 2 times the input voltage. Possibly earlier. Secondary should be thicker than primary.

You will have higher number of turns in the primary due to use of multifilar coils. As inductive impedance increases the current drawn would decrease as you add more multifilar primaries. In the secondary as voltage increases current will also increase.

Please stay at least six to eight feet away from the electromagnets. Otherwise they affect our health.

Can it be made to run on its own. Possible but I have not tried it.

All primaries should be wound in the same direction and in the same way"

Much appriciated
Jeg

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2020, 01:48:54 AM »
@Jeg


The problems with our modern educational system are that we teach specifics
Instead of actual knowledge.
This occurred over the last two decades through abuse of our accreditation system.
To cater to companies specific job types.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2020, 01:48:54 AM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2020, 09:48:47 AM »
@Jeg


The problems with our modern educational system are that we teach specifics
Instead of actual knowledge.
This occurred over the last two decades through abuse of our accreditation system.
To cater to companies specific job types.

This is so true! Year after year i discover something that it is just never been told or written in books except in patents that are here and there! But as general awareness increases, i believe that it is a matter of time until we all have a selfrunner on our desks. Hopefully! :)

By the way. I already built a coil to test. Eight layers of 0,75mm total inductance of 1mH 2,5Ω as a primary. 4mm secondary having a total 2,3mH of inductance. I still haven't reach the double voltage at the output but next days i will add more cable at the secondary side until to double the input voltage.

Best Regards

Offline NRamaswami

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 12:40:51 PM »
Sir

I used 4 sq mm insulated wire that is rated to be able to carry 24 amps for transmission purposes.

My memory is that if a wire rated at 24 amps in coils it should not be used for more than 12 amps.

The wire that you indicate as being used is probably rated at 6 or 7 amps fir transmission purposes and is a high resistance wire. This is normally used for house Electrical purposes if I remember correctly.

Higher the diameter of the wire greater is the ability to carry current and lower the resistance.

Small wires I remember will not work. If I remember correctly Hubbard used very thick double insulated wires.

Unfortunately when I checked my old mails and notes I find that Patrick has instructed me to forget experiments that gave anomalous results and to destroy my notes. This I have done. The Engineer who worked with me in 2013 passed away in that year itself.

I am afraid that I may not be of much use.

I don't think  that what's written about Hubbard and Figuera on the net in any place to be true. I have tried them but found that the writing is against principles.

Fir example

A conductor subjected to a time varying magnetic field gets induced electricity

The induced secondary opposes the inducing primary.

If the primary goes from top to bottom secondary will come bottom to top

If primary goes CCW
secondary will come CW

If primary goes inner to outer
Secondary will come outer to inner

This is how secondary opposes primary

This is a basic principle

In the coil I described you can wind the secondary as indicated and primary and you will find that you can increase efficiency by continuing to wind secondary above the primary. I have measured up to 114 percent efficiency but dismissed it as measurements error or instruments error.

Unless you try to use thick coils and large electromagnets I don't know how you would get results.

Unfortunately I have gone through many health problems in the last seven years. Heart problem, mild stroke, TB, Asthma and wheezing, severely weakened legs and feet and hip and I don't want to do these experiments.

I have also wound a very large electromagnet using 1100 metres of 4 sq mm wireas a 100 metre long 11 filar coil. Between each layer I put  thick plastic sheets and iron rods. We ended up with a very heavy electromagnet 18 inch long and approximately 24 inches in diameter.

The inductive impedance was so high yhat the coil draw only 110 watts but the core was saturated. If we use more wires then it's possible to bring down the input to just about 10 watts. Still we will have a very large and powerful electromagnet.

I believe that it may be possible to get higher output than the input if we place a secondary in between the north pole and south pole of such large electromagnets.

This very honestly I could not test. I could not afford it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of opposition to this kind of experiments from my family as all of us think that my health problems are some how associated with these large and powerful Electromagnetic fields. 

I therefore withdraw and please accept my sincere Apologies.

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan


If


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 12:40:51 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2020, 01:12:41 PM »
Sir

I used 4 sq mm insulated wire that is rated to be able to carry 24 amps for transmission purposes.

My memory is that if a wire rated at 24 amps in coils it should not be used for more than 12 amps.

The wire that you indicate as being used is probably rated at 6 or 7 amps fir transmission purposes and is a high resistance wire. This is normally used for house Electrical purposes if I remember correctly.

Higher the diameter of the wire greater is the ability to carry current and lower the resistance.

Small wires I remember will not work. If I remember correctly Hubbard used very thick double insulated wires.

Unfortunately when I checked my old mails and notes I find that Patrick has instructed me to forget experiments that gave anomalous results and to destroy my notes. This I have done. The Engineer who worked with me in 2013 passed away in that year itself.

I am afraid that I may not be of much use.

I don't think  that what's written about Hubbard and Figuera on the net in any place to be true. I have tried them but found that the writing is against principles.

Fir example

A conductor subjected to a time varying magnetic field gets induced electricity

The induced secondary opposes the inducing primary.

If the primary goes from top to bottom secondary will come bottom to top

If primary goes CCW
secondary will come CW

If primary goes inner to outer
Secondary will come outer to inner

This is how secondary opposes primary

This is a basic principle

In the coil I described you can wind the secondary as indicated and primary and you will find that you can increase efficiency by continuing to wind secondary above the primary. I have measured up to 114 percent efficiency but dismissed it as measurements error or instruments error.

Unless you try to use thick coils and large electromagnets I don't know how you would get results.

Unfortunately I have gone through many health problems in the last seven years. Heart problem, mild stroke, TB, Asthma and wheezing, severely weakened legs and feet and hip and I don't want to do these experiments.

I have also wound a very large electromagnet using 1100 metres of 4 sq mm wireas a 100 metre long 11 filar coil. Between each layer I put  thick plastic sheets and iron rods. We ended up with a very heavy electromagnet 18 inch long and approximately 24 inches in diameter.

The inductive impedance was so high yhat the coil draw only 110 watts but the core was saturated. If we use more wires then it's possible to bring down the input to just about 10 watts. Still we will have a very large and powerful electromagnet.

I believe that it may be possible to get higher output than the input if we place a secondary in between the north pole and south pole of such large electromagnets.

This very honestly I could not test. I could not afford it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of opposition to this kind of experiments from my family as all of us think that my health problems are some how associated with these large and powerful Electromagnetic fields. 

I therefore withdraw and please accept my sincere Apologies.

Regards

Ramaswami Natarajan


If

Sir Natarajan
You have already contributed the best. I think that you should listen to your people and stay away from these unhealthy magnetic fields. I wish you a quick recovery of your health and if you have time we'll be here to listen more of your experience.

ps. You know, what you have described is also what Daniel McFarland Cook was doing back then. I had built once a coil in these huge specifications but never thought to plug it in mains 220V. So i missed the effect.   

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2020, 10:50:07 PM »
If anyone has access to the full Clemente patents i would lobe to see them.


I have made a full analysis of the 1902 device commented on by Nikola Tesla.
While presented as 3 parts, the device itself is only one part.
The second part being a variable resistor
And the 3rd, and a timing circuit.
In our modern times these components can be replaced as followed:


Part 2: can be replaced by a series of 10-100 Ohm potientiometers
Part 3: can be replaced by an integrated circuit timer. (at the IC operating cost)
Please note: the “automotive-style rotary distributor” used in the original device
                   included some quantity of current draw from the battery to rotate.


I have included some crude sketches to display (what i believe is) the most efficient method.
This is to share the second coil of the first stack with the first coil of the next consecutive stack.
As shown in the 2nd drawing.
Pick-up coils (P) are connected in series, each Induction Coil has its own lead from the timer.


The 3rd image includes a timing table, the (Inc) value will be tuned for performance.
These numerical values are often measured in milliseconds on the IC
My math is decimals of whole seconds so do not forget to move the decimal.


I have included a theoretical assessment of voltage and current values of the “ideal case”
and timing increment maximums for both 50 and 60 Hz cycles.


Before you begin, I recommend creating shielding walls of multi-layered inductive sheet metal
Such as the casing metal from decommissioned microwave ovens.


While there does not appear to be an inherent danger, there are possible high-frequency emissions at certain timing configurations, resultant from signal reflection and colliding peaks.
I would expect at these nodes, to find a decrease in output performance, therefore a final version
should (theoretically) have minimal high frequency emission.


The physical configuration of my drawing is in a straight line, however circular configuration would be further beneficial.






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2020, 10:50:07 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2020, 10:56:19 PM »
About wire guages (before anyone asks...)


The “ideal case”: the pick up wire is 2x the diameter of the induction coil wire.
Without dealing with too much technical discussion, there are 2 inductors, therefore:
General rule of thumb
Double the thickness of the pick-up
OR
double its length


(I/V)




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2020, 11:25:44 PM »
About the variable resistance of each step in the induction circuit::
The first coil has the highest resistance, and therefore the lowest current
resistance is decreased (by ~10 Ohms in the original device) for each consecutive coil.
Therefore: a separate trim pot should be used for each induction coil.
and each tuned appropriately such that maximum output on the pick-up coils is achieved at each series junction.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2020, 11:28:22 PM »
I recommend beginning your research with a 12v source
And work your way up from there if you feel it necessary.




Offline Magluvin

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Re: Place holder for Patrick Kelly Tribute / open source experiment
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2020, 01:44:45 AM »
Sir Natarajan
You have already contributed the best. I think that you should listen to your people and stay away from these unhealthy magnetic fields. I wish you a quick recovery of your health and if you have time we'll be here to listen more of your experience.

ps. You know, what you have described is also what Daniel McFarland Cook was doing back then. I had built once a coil in these huge specifications but never thought to plug it in mains 220V. So i missed the effect.
As for health issues with these devices, perhaps it is freq related such as Tesla talked about.  Good eff can be had below 20khz. Higher than say 50k, then you just built a radio station and are in close proximity. I like to stay low freq.  So maybe there could be changes to make it lower freq?
There are power supplies that can run near 150khz.  not sure its necessary, other than the need for a super stable output for sensitive equipment.

Mags

 

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