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2020 builders survivor board => Floors MMM-2 builders board => Topic started by: Floor on July 16, 2020, 02:59:39 PM

Title: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on July 16, 2020, 02:59:39 PM
This topic is for presentations of
             the methods of measuring
                             and
            the measurements taken of

the work needed to shear two permanent magnets in attraction from one another
               as compared to
the work needed to pull those same two magnet directly apart from one another.

            floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on July 18, 2020, 04:26:58 PM
At all readers

Please read this (one page) @

https://overunity.com/18496/un-hassled-exploration/msg545850/#msg545850

          floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on July 18, 2020, 04:34:46 PM
@ All readers

I'm setting up for measurements.  It will probably be a number of days
before I have any thing to show.

I will be using wafer / ceramic magnets cut down from 1 7/8 inches
length to 7/8 of an inch length.

3/8 thickness by 7/8 by 7/8 (square face) wafer magnets. 
Magnetic poles are on the broad faces.

   floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on July 29, 2020, 02:57:16 PM
Please see the attached Jpg drawing below.

I will measure a few variations in the magnet position
by the time I am done.

Suggestions are welcomed.

      floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 22, 2020, 12:13:42 AM
More details of this particular experiment set (shear work compared to direct pull work).

Attached JPGs below

Thanks
 floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 22, 2020, 07:37:49 PM
Here is someone else's Old project.  ( pdf file format )

I don't at this point, say their "findings" are either valid or not valid.

https://slideplayer.com/slide/3989835/

             best
               wishes

                     floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 25, 2020, 06:32:44 PM
I cut up two magnets yesterday (out doors).

You can have my magnets when you pry them from my cold wet hands !

Not the smoothest / best quality of cuts, but they should do well enough.

See picture below.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on March 04, 2021, 04:43:41 PM
WHY any diference?

For 1 thing .....

Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on March 06, 2021, 02:30:02 AM
free people, free energy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM2z60kDdZo
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 03, 2021, 12:25:57 AM
First measurement set, no calculations.

7/8 x 7/8 inch by 3/8 inch thick.
Magnetic poles are on the broad faces.
The polar faces of the two magnets, begin as facing and aligned one over the other.
There is a 3 /32 inch gap between the two polar faces of the magnets.
The magnets are slid apart by adding force in10 gram increments.

Each degree is equal to 0.27930 of a mm travel on the sliding magnet.

1.   30 g       --- 3 deg
2.   40 g       --- 4 deg
3.   50 g       --- 5 deg
4.   60 g       --- 7.75 deg
5.   70 g       --- 8 deg
6.   80 g       --- 9 deg
7.   90 g       --- 12 deg
8.   100 g     --- 12 deg
9.   110 g     --- 13 deg
10.  120 g    --- 15.5 deg
11.  130 g    --- 17.75 deg
12.  140 g    --- 21 deg
13.  150 g    --- 23.75 deg
14.  160 g    --- 32 deg
15.  170 g    --- 49 deg
16.  160 g    ---  49 deg
17.  150 g    --- 62.75 deg
18.  130 g    --- 66 deg
19.  120 g    --- 70 deg
20.  110 g    --- 73 deg
21.  100 g    --- 77 deg
22.  90 g      --- 78.5 deg
23.  80 g      --- 81 deg
24.  70 g      --- 2.5 deg
25.  60 g      --- 85 deg
26.  50 g      --- 87 deg
27.  40 g      --- 90.5 deg
28.  30 g      --- 93.5 deg
29.  20 g      --- 95.5 deg
30.  10 g      --- 100 deg
31.    5 g      --- 107 deg

Jpg attached below

   regards
           floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 03, 2021, 12:39:53 AM
I'm set up for the next measurement set, but not today.


           floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 03, 2021, 03:21:42 AM
Finished it out any way.

No calculations done.

Interaction as in above jpg

7/8 x 7/8 inch by 3/8 inch thick.
Magnetic poles are on the broad faces.
The polar faces of the two magnets, begin as facing and aligned one in front of the other.
There is a 3 /32 inch gap between the two polar faces of the magnets.

The magnets are pulled directly apart by adding force in 15 to 20 gram increments.

Each degree is equal to 0.27930 of a mm travel on the sliding magnet.

1.   385 g    --- 0 deg balanced
2.   370 g    --- 2 deg
3.   345 g    --- 2.5 deg
4.   325 g    --- 3 deg
5.   305 g    --- 6 deg
6.   285 g    --- 7.25 deg
7.   265 g    --- 8.25 deg
8.   245 g    --- 9.75 deg
9.   225 g    --- 12.5 deg
10. 205 g    --- 14.5 deg
11. 185 g    --- 17.5 deg
12. 165 g    --- 19.25 deg
13. 145 g    --- 23.25 deg
14.  125 g    --- 27.5 deg
15.  105 g    --- 32.5 deg
16.  85 g      --- 38 deg
17.  65 g      --- 47 deg
18.  45 g      --- 62 deg
19.  25 g      --- 80 deg
20.  15 g      --- 95 deg
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 03, 2021, 05:36:10 AM
7/8 x 7/8 inch by 3/8 inch thick.
Magnetic poles are on the broad faces.
The polar faces of the two magnets, begin as facing and aligned one over the other.
There is a 3 /32 inch gap between the two polar faces of the magnets.
The magnets are slid apart by adding force in10 gram increments.

Each degree is equal to 0.27930 of a mm travel on the sliding magnet.

1.   30 g       --- 3 deg
2.   40 g       --- 4 deg          35 x 1             = 35
3.   50 g       --- 5 deg          45 x 1             = 45   
4.   60 g       --- 7.75 deg     55 x 2.75        = 151.25
5.   70 g       --- 8 deg          65 x 0.25        =  16.25
6.   80 g       --- 9 deg          75 x 1             = 75
7.   90 g       --- 12 deg        85 x 3             =  255
8.   100 g     --- 12 deg        0...................  = 0
9.   110 g     --- 13 deg        100 x 1           = 100
10.  120 g    --- 15.5 deg     65 x 2.5          =  162.5
11.  130 g    --- 17.75 deg   125 x 2.25      =  281.25
12.  140 g    --- 21 deg        135 x 3.25      =  438.75
13.  150 g    --- 23.75 deg   145 x 2.75      =  398.75
14.  160 g    --- 32 deg        155 x 8.25      =  1278.75
15.  170 g    --- 49 deg        165 x 17         =  2805
16.  160 g    ---  49 deg       0...................  = 0
17.  150 g    --- 62.75 deg   160 x 13.75    = 2200
18.  130 g    --- 66 deg        140 x 3.25      = 455
19.  120 g    --- 70 deg        125 x 4           = 500
20.  110 g    --- 73 deg        115 x 3           = 345
21.  100 g    --- 77 deg        105 x 4           = 420
22.  90 g      --- 78.5 deg      95 x 1.5         = 143.5
23.  80 g      --- 81 deg         85 x 2.5         = 212
24.  70 g      --- 82.5 deg      75 x  1.5        = 112.5
25.  60 g      --- 85 deg         65  x 2.5        = 162.5
26.  50 g      --- 87 deg         55 x 2            = 110
27.  40 g      --- 90.5 deg      90  x 3.5        = 315
28.  30 g      --- 93.5 deg      35 x 3            = 105
29.  20 g      --- 95.5 deg      25 x 2            = 50
30.  10 g      --- 100 deg       15 x 4.5         = 67.5
31.    5 g      --- 107 deg       7.5 x 7           = 52.5
                                                                 ---------------------------------------
                                                                    11293   or 11286 with no fractions

.... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....
7/8 x 7/8 inch by 3/8 inch thick.
Magnetic poles are on the broad faces.
The polar faces of the two magnets, begin as facing and one in front of the other.
There is a 3 /32 inch gap between the two polar faces of the magnets.

The magnets are pulled directly apart by adding force in 15 to 20 gram increments.

Each degree is equal to 0.27930 of a mm travel on the sliding magnet.

1.   385 g    --- 0 deg balanced
2.   370 g    --- 2 deg                   377.5 x 2          =  755
3.   345 g    --- 2.5 deg                357.5 x 0.5       =  178.75       
4.   325 g    --- 3 deg                   335 x 0.5          =  167.5
5.   305 g    --- 6 deg                   315 x 3             =   945
6.   285 g    --- 7.25 deg              295 x 1.25        =  368.75
7.   265 g    --- 8.25 deg              275 x 1.5          =  412.5
8.   245 g    --- 9.75 deg              255 x 1.5          =  382.5
9.   225 g    --- 12.5 deg              235 x 2.75        =  646.25
10. 205 g    --- 14.5 deg              215 x 2             =  430
11. 185 g    --- 17.5 deg              195 x 3             =  585
12. 165 g    --- 19.25 deg            175 x 1.75        = 306.25
13. 145 g    --- 23.25 deg            155 x 4             = 620
14.  125 g    --- 27.5 deg             135 x 4.25        = 673.75
15.  105 g    --- 32.5 deg             115 x 5             = 575
16.  85 g      --- 38 deg                95 x  5.5           = 522.5     
17.  65 g      --- 47 deg                75 x 9               = 675
18.  45 g      --- 62 deg                55 x 15             = 825
19.  25 g      --- 80 deg                35 x 18             = 630
20.  15 g      --- 95 deg                20 x 15             = 300
                                                                               ----------------
                                                                                9998.75


                                                                              11293
                                                                              - 9998
                                                                               -------
                                                                               1295

Some one might want to check the math.
There are 2 more motions to measure....

Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 03, 2021, 09:19:21 AM
107 degrees worth of travel    and     95 degrees worth of travel...

100 / 107 = 0.9345794392523364485981308411215
0.9345794392523364485981308411215 x 95 = 88.785046728971962616822429906542

95 degrees of travel  is
             88.8 % of the travel of 107 degrees of travel .... .... .... .... ....

100 / 11293 = 0.00885504294695829274771982644116

0.00885504294695829274771982644116  x  9998 = 88.53

                                            9998 is 88.53 % of 11293 .... .... .... .... ....

No O.U. in this layout, doesn't prove that different magnet dimensions
or using neodymium magnets would not come out to O.U..   

But it doesn't look good to me, at this point.

             floor

Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 03, 2021, 03:21:04 PM
Again...
     there are two more actions to measure.

                         This process is not complete.

Note I had previously diagrammed the input and output, backward.

But the work totals / measurements will still tell the differences, either way.

                       THIS DIAGRAM (BELOW) AGAIN, SHOWS THE ACTION BACKWARD
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 04, 2021, 03:18:46 AM
continuing...
                    The shearing work measurements...
27.
28.
29.  20 g      --- 95.5 deg      25 x 2            = 50
30.  10 g      --- 100 deg       15 x 4.5         = 67.5
31.    5 g      --- 107 deg       7.5 x 7           = 52.5
                                                          total = 11293

Had we stopped our measurements at 95 degrees in both of the measurement sets
instead of continuing on to 107 degrees in the one set...

the ratio would have been 11173 (sliding) to 9998 (direct pull)
                               because 11293 - 120 =  11173 
at 100 degrees  there are 67.5 units of work  +  the 52.5 units of work at 107 degrees
                        (67.5 +52.5 = 120)
                                    and
                        11173 - 9998 = 1175 (still greater than zero).

                   See ? 
                        We are not done yet !
                              floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 04, 2021, 05:52:19 AM
Force times displacement equals energy (in the form of mechanical work).

A mass of 102 grams, exerts approximately 1 newton of force (down) in earth's standard gravity
(as weight).

If we lift that 102 gram mass 1 meter, we do approximately 1 joule of work upon it, as that lifting.

Force times displacement equals work. 1 newton times 1 meter equals 1 joule of work.

But the force present in magnet interactions changes at differing distances.

So then, how does one calculate the energy present in magnet interactions ?



Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 04, 2021, 08:35:13 AM
So..
The travel of a magnet (A) due to magnetic forces can be of a shorter
length than some other magnet's (magnet B's) travel due to magnetic
force and yet ...

if the average force along the travel of magnet (A) is greater
than the average force along the travel of magnet (B),  there can
be more energy present in the action of that magnet (A) than is
present in the action of magnet(B).

There is more potential to do mechanical work in the sliding magnet action
(presented / measured) than is present in the direct (face to face) action.

Next, we see if it can be looped as a net gain in work from magnets ?
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 04, 2021, 09:00:24 AM
Here it is...
the other two measurement sets...

less than 5 grams force, over the course of the one travel
               and
negative five grams force, over the course of the other travel.

   done...
     back to the other magnet device...

     @ https://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg556715/#msg556715


Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 04, 2021, 03:18:41 PM
Disappointment again here, no spiny thingy !
Just cyclical work from magnets with a net energy gain ?

       later ...
         Always remember that ..
           While time might fly like an arrow,
              fruit flies like a banana.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 05, 2021, 06:29:44 AM
Not done.
  Still here.

Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 05, 2021, 06:43:16 AM
Why ?

   Back face / far field interaction...

        video below

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f0md2

               OK to start at 6 min 05 seconds

Should use cube or bar magnets as recommended  in the "EDEN project" PDF,

    @ https://slideplayer.com/slide/3989835/

rather than wafer shaped ones...
                     and  / or use a longer out put stroke

     floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 05, 2021, 02:51:30 PM
Please Keep in mind that...

there are numerous ways in which I am not following the parameters
met in the Kedron Eden project PDF. 
                                @
https://slideplayer.com/slide/3989835/

So, we cannot consider this present endeavor as a replication nor as an invalidation
of that other project.

Note..

One of the reasons that this method interests me, is that it functions
in attraction modes.   

This means that even when using ceramic magnets, one might get a long life
expectancy from the magnets.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 05, 2021, 05:09:19 PM
Utilizing a longer out put stroke would decrease the input needed
to move from position two to position three and also increase the
output in moving from position three to position four.

For this reason and....

 if / when, the magnets used were to be of cube shape, as in the Eden
project PDF, it looks like a net gain is possible here.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 08, 2021, 08:53:54 PM
OK...
we got it ...

              JPG below


   best wishes
              floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 08, 2021, 11:37:55 PM
Maybe 69% more energy as mechanical work out, than the mechanical work
which was input.




Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: lota on May 09, 2021, 09:40:01 AM
There is a patent for this. How to build an engine. But I have to look for it. Even with a curve construction it would have to go.

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi1-J39lbzwAhXqMewKHV-yBn4QFjAAegQIAhAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatentimages.storage.googleapis.com%2Fdd%2F92%2F2c%2Ff6a7092faa7487%2FUS20110198958A1.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2KvfIa-YIw7M-0818borhd

https://slideplayer.com/slide/3989835/

greeting
Lota
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 09, 2021, 04:24:44 PM
      @ Lota

Kenneth C. Kozeka / the EDEN project PDF

Are already liked to earlier in this topic
                            @
 https://overunity.com/18551/magnet-shear-to-direct-pull-work-ratio/msg553381/#msg553381

                    Thanks for the additional link to that  project / PDF.
                                                      and
                                     Also thanks for the link to the patent.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

The magnet actions / motions, I measured are similar to those shown in the patent.
That device is a continuous motion device.

The gear and shaft linkages in the patent drawing, indicate that the magnets must
all be moving , when any one of them is moving.
... ... ... ... ... ... .. .. .. .. .... ...
The interactions I have described are such that, an action begins, that action completes,
a next action begins, that next action completes and so on.  All motion comes completely
to a stop, then a / the next motion begins.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
     however...
One might also slow an action down so much so (very near to the end of its motion) that it
serves practically the same purpose as does arresting completely that motion.

It seem as though  Kozeka's method is  intended to accomplish this by means of variable
gearing or pulleys.  This is described else where in the patent.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
    Other wise....
     yes, they are both about lateral and direct magnet attractions.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 09, 2021, 05:19:59 PM
I'm pretty satisfied with this test. 

I going to leave this topic available for others to post in / for me to get feed back in,
for a time.

Eventually I will lock it, so that it remains short and sweet / complete.

                                                        best wishes
                                                               floor
  P.S.
Looking forward to getting back to that other build.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 10, 2021, 08:03:58 PM
note..

I find only a U.S application for a patent not a
patent its self.

                  floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 10, 2021, 10:10:14 PM
Classifications

 H02K53/00 Alleged dynamo-electric perpetua mobilia
... ... ... ... ...
Note....
             This means it was automatically denied a patent.
... ... ... ... ... ... ..

Status
Abandoned
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on May 10, 2021, 10:20:04 PM
But this is what the input to output came out to in my
quasi replication of the design.

JPG below

 for a quick jump back, a few pages...

https://overunity.com/18551/magnet-shear-to-direct-pull-work-ratio/msg557293/#msg557293

            floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on September 04, 2021, 08:04:00 PM
                               This magnet interaction set is O.U.
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on October 07, 2021, 10:08:22 AM




http://www.borderlands.de/Links/Kedron_EDEN_Project.pdf
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 04, 2021, 12:04:12 AM
             NOW LOOKING

Looking for replications of this set of magnet interaction (measurements).

                                            BY
                Any O.U. member WELL KNOWN BY ME.

                     REQUIRED

1. must use "identical" magnets to those used by me.
2. must demonstrate that the sensitivity of the measurement equipment used
   is < = 5 grams + -
3. must use 20 gram weight increments or smaller, and / or 1 mm displacement increments.
4. must       take    and     log     each measured increment    of each interaction,    5 times.
5. must present those logs on O.U. forum
6. must video document the     equipment, methods and accuracy (can be brief if thorough
    and convincing).
7. no other requirements.

  Best wishes
           floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 05, 2021, 02:52:37 PM
These are not "my requirements"....
         These are / this is ..

what it takes in order to actually have a reasonable degree of
certainty that the magnets and these interactions result in a net
amount of work out.

Do you / does humanity "deserve" free energy ?

You bet !.  Just as much so, as we deserve the sun and the rain
and the stars above !
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 07, 2021, 07:50:53 PM
Thanks Ramset...
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on November 30, 2021, 07:55:44 PM
                     8.279 % more mechanical work output , than is input.

 floor
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: lota on December 01, 2021, 07:31:18 AM
Hello
I had tested this before. Seems to work. But not finished yet.
Greeting
Lota
should run as an animation???
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on December 01, 2021, 03:46:42 PM
Hello
I had tested this before. Seems to work. But not finished yet.
Greeting
Lota
should run as an animation???


Did you or are you testing or measuring,  real world magnet interactions ?

Running as an animation seems moot at this time except that measurements
of the work done, as the four actions are verified.

  Thanks very much, for your input and time.

   best wishes
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: lota on December 01, 2021, 09:05:52 PM

Hello
I built that. But you have to put two or three together. I want to build it with the 3D Printer. Then you see more.
Greeting
Lota
Title: Re: "Magnet shear to direct pull work ratio"
Post by: Floor on December 01, 2021, 09:38:38 PM
Very cool !

  floor