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Author Topic: Minimal Lenz Generator V2  (Read 9231 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2020, 08:23:18 PM »

....
As I said earlier my motor is too large to determine if the added washers are reducing or delaying the Lenz effect.  A new test set up either with bigger or more coils or a much smaller motor needs to be done to determine the effect the washers are having on the Lenz effect.

...
Hi Carroll, 

Thank you again for sharing your new measurents on this interesting setup.   

Would like to suggest a small modification on your rotor disk.  When you have time, you may wish to mount and embed further two magnets 
into the rotor, these would serve as rotor magnets for a small pulse motor, see the attached picture with my indicating the magnet places. 
And you would have room for two small stator motor coils to mount them on a vertical wood support fastened on the base platform. 
This way you could get rid of the scooter motor and would be able to sense any load behaviour on the generator side by monitoring the pulse motor input current.
The simplest pulse motor with one transistor controlled by a reed switch or a Hall sensor would serve well. The 2 motor coils would simply be in series and a fast diode would shunt both (or individually) for the flyback pulse to maintain motor coil current  a little after the switch-off moments.  Obviously such simple pulse motor could not provide high RPM for the rotor but would serve well for detecting any load change.
You could position the two motor magnets very close to the edges of the rotor disk alongside the diameter line (instead of the middle
I indicated), that would insure higher motor torque if that would be important.  I apologize for giving you such suggestion from my 'armchair', I thought it mentioning at least for your consideration.   

Regards
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2020, 08:23:18 PM »

Offline citfta

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2020, 09:40:33 PM »
Hello again Gyula,


I don't mind at all you suggesting ideas for further research.  I do think that might be a good way to explore this a little further.  Unfortunately I have several outdoor projects that I really need to get done so my time for working on this will be limited.  It does get too hot a lot of times in the afternoon to work outdoors so I probably will have some time each day to rebuild this into a pulse motor for further testing.  But it will probably take me a few days to get it done.


Thanks for the suggestion.


Take care,
Carroll

Offline norman6538

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2020, 11:04:50 PM »
My simple suggestion is to use a pendulum instead of a rotor and count the swings when dropped from the same point once for the washer enhancement and once for standard setup. Then you will see if there is less Lenz counter to the direction of the motion......

If nothing comes  out by next week I might have time to do that.
IRS comes first - 15th is coming.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2020, 11:04:50 PM »
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Offline bistander

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2020, 11:55:40 PM »
First thing comes to mind is the pendulum swings both ways, so as citfta does, magnet encounters coil first, then iron washer, then on back swing, iron first, then magnet. Be interesting to see difference. I thought about suggesting citfta test running opposite direction of rotation. See if those numbers shed any insight.

I also noticed that first post original drawing has split rotor with iron going past rear end of coil core. I don't see the value for it. And as long as there is the rotor structure there, better off to use a magnet on it.

BTW, I think you could emulate a smaller (weaker) motor by shifting the brush holder end cap position and reducing motor voltage. Advancing brush timing weakens the motor field causing less torque per amp and higher RPM per volt. Just a thought. Might be quicker than adding magnets to make a pulse motor.
Regards,
bi

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2020, 12:19:51 AM »

...
I also noticed that first post original drawing has split rotor with iron going past rear end of coil core. I don't see the value for it. And as long as there is the rotor structure there, better off to use a magnet on it.
...

 

Hi Bistander, 

Do you mean to use a magnet on the split rotor instead of the iron piece?  I think you meant the iron on the bottom rotor disk in Boris's drawing, right?   

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2020, 12:19:51 AM »
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Offline bistander

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2020, 01:09:46 AM »
 

Hi Bistander, 

Do you mean to use a magnet on the split rotor instead of the iron piece?  I think you meant the iron on the bottom rotor disk in Boris's drawing, right?   

Gyula

Hi Gyula,

Yes. That's what I said, isn't it? Or was trying to say.
bi

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2020, 01:22:11 AM »
Hi Gyula,

Yes. That's what I said, isn't it? Or was trying to say.
bi
I think the magnet will introduce a sticky point, a drag just after TDC, just like the load current does earlier what the iron reduces. I understand that a magnet in the place of iron would give a better drag compensation up to TDC moment but after passing TDC it would introduce back attraction to the coil core.  This is how I see it and asked whether I got your suggestion right.

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2020, 01:22:11 AM »
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Offline bistander

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2020, 02:52:12 AM »
I think the magnet will introduce a sticky point, a drag just after TDC, just like the load current does earlier what the iron reduces. I understand that a magnet in the place of iron would give a better drag compensation up to TDC moment but after passing TDC it would introduce back attraction to the coil core.  This is how I see it and asked whether I got your suggestion right.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,
I'll try to explain better. To me, half of the original idea quickly was dropped. I don't know why but likely it was difficult for citfta to implement with his existing apparatus. But I saw no benefit of the moving iron on that end of the coil core anyway. However using another magnet in place of that iron would likely increase flux through the coil core thereby increasing the generator performance namely in efficiency and power density. That has nothing to do with minimizing Lenz. Sorry if that went off topic.
bi

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2020, 11:13:22 AM »
Hi Gyula,
I'll try to explain better. To me, half of the original idea quickly was dropped. I don't know why but likely it was difficult for citfta to implement with his existing apparatus. But I saw no benefit of the moving iron on that end of the coil core anyway. However using another magnet in place of that iron would likely increase flux through the coil core thereby increasing the generator performance namely in efficiency and power density. That has nothing to do with minimizing Lenz. Sorry if that went off topic.
bi
Hi Bi, 

Thanks for explaining, I understand.   

I see this setup differently.  I still think Boris's claim is valid and using the iron pieces the usual drag an electric load imposes on the rotor (hence on the prime mover of this generator) could be reduced.   
Lenz law still happens of course when the load current appears just after TDC but its counter to motion field (that normally causes the drag) is harnessed by attracting in the iron pieces with it. 

OF course this is a claim and it should be verified in practice with measurements. Carroll's kind tests showed that the presence of the iron pieces indeed increases output voltage hence power.

I understand also that the iron piece mounted next to the leaving side of the magnet modifies the magnet's flux distribution, making it asymmetric. 

Norman's pendulum test suggestion (Reply #32 above) is indeed simpler than using a pulse motor. 

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2020, 11:13:22 AM »
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Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2020, 03:01:25 AM »
Hi ! I have Variant 3  . Compensation occurs when approaching . The magnet works simultaneously with the iron compensator .
It is designed for pendulums and the simple conversion of electric motors into free energy generators.
        V3 is different from V1, V2, and therefore the test results may be unexpected .

                                                                             

Regards ,
Boris

Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2020, 05:59:54 PM »
Hi ! I have Variant 3  . Compensation occurs when approaching . The magnet works simultaneously with the iron compensator .
It is designed for pendulums and the simple conversion of electric motors into free energy generators.
        V3 is different from V1, V2, and therefore the test results may be unexpected .

                                                                             

Regards ,
Boris
      It must be added that the coil is connected to the load only when approaching . When moving away from the coil, the load must be disconnected. This will allow the magnet and the iron compensator to leave without resistance. You can use a diode or other methods to do this.   ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2020, 05:59:54 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2020, 12:48:28 PM »
Hi Boris, 

Thanks for showing Version 3, it seems also interesting. 

Would like to ask whether you have managed to test any version in practice? 

It would be very good to see for instance V2 when you remove the iron from the top rotor disk and use the iron only on the bottom rotor disk. 
Then the comparative load tests would nicely show how useful the presence of the bottom iron would be versus the case when the bottom iron is also removed.   
Have you done such tests or any tests with these versions, or you have this idea untested by you?  I am not nit-picking, this idea sounds very good, I am just curious what you experienced.

Greetings 
Gyula

Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2020, 08:38:51 PM »
Hi Gyula,

I have not conducted practical tests of this idea.
Just not enough time for everything.
To find a good design, you need to conduct hundreds of tests ......
 Apparently, it is necessary to attract specialists on this issue.
I will be glad if business representatives show interest in the mass introduction of this technology.
Most people cannot make complex devices in the garage.
The optimal solution is quick assembly kits.
The community may have good ideas.


Regards,
 Boris

Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2020, 11:41:02 AM »
An easy way to test this idea. Make a motor generator from a computer fan .
       
                 If it charges the battery it is connected to, you won the game   :)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2020, 08:29:23 AM »
Low Lenz pendulum tests. In the photo you see a very large gap because the setup is not tight enough to make it smaller. I will work on more precision as time permits. You can see the metal beside the magnet.
 I woke up wide awake at 1am thinking about this and rigged and tested as you see - not too exciting with large gap.
However look at B 3 highlighted text.
  Measuring the current with a microamp meter shows no major difference with or without the metal except leaving the core seems greater amperage than approaching the core.

A. no metal
1. open coil 48 swings
2. short coil 38 swings
3. with diode 36 or 37 swings

B. with metal next to magnet.
1. open coil 46
2. shorted coil 37 or 38
3. diode > 44 swings - greater than A 3 above shows promise
4. diode > 43 swings   

So I would say this idea warrants more study. 

My old pendulum with 2 skate bearings was too sloppy so I used a bicycle front wheel axle and even as adjustable as that is and the arm 20 inches long there is some serious axle play.
 
What is amazing to me is the microamp meter moves further when the pendulum is not swing fast but less when it swings high and fast. go figure?
Norman
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 03:44:16 PM by norman6538 »

 

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