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Author Topic: Minimal Lenz Generator V2  (Read 9238 times)

Offline BorisKrabow

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Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« on: July 04, 2020, 09:13:24 PM »
Hi All !  I want to share a new idea . It is an efficient electric generator .Everything is very simple  :) .There is a coil and a magnet .The magnet goes away and the coil produces an electric current.At this time, the coil prevents the magnet from moving with its field .Now we get rid of the braking of the generator shaft . Two iron washers are attracted by the coil and accelerate the rotor .The same Lenz force is used that prevents the magnet from moving.
      Thus, in this generator the braking forces are compensated by the acceleration forces .This design has a number of specific features that should be considered for success.  This will be discussed later .

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Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« on: July 04, 2020, 09:13:24 PM »

Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2020, 09:23:11 PM »

Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2020, 05:41:48 PM »
The duty cycle of the generator begins when the magnet is opposite the coil  ( on the picture MLG_V2.jpg  ) .
          At this moment the load is connected .
    The duty cycle of the generator ends  when the iron washers are opposite the coil . At this point, the load is disconnected until the start of the next cycle.

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2020, 05:41:48 PM »
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Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2020, 08:16:41 PM »
The easiest way to extract a duty cycle is to use a diode . The diode must be installed so as to pass the current of the desired polarity . The reason for these complications is that a magnet approaching the coil and moving away from it produces a voltage of different polarity . 
              (Attention ! The captions in the picture are randomly placed.)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2020, 11:18:38 PM »
The easiest way to extract a duty cycle is to use a diode . The diode must be installed so as to pass the current of the desired polarity . The reason for these complications is that a magnet approaching the coil and moving away from it produces a voltage of different polarity . 
              (Attention ! The captions in the picture are randomly placed.)
When a rotor magnet passes a coil, on the approach the magnet field cuts the windings on that side of the coil causing current to flow in the whole coil in 1 polarity, and when the magnet is just passing the departing side of the coil, current in the coil occurs in the opposite polarity.  Diodes or not, there will be lenz occurring on both affected areas of the coil. On approach there will be repulsion to the incoming magnet and repulsion passing dead center cutting the departing windings. When the magnet is crossing dead center, both the approaching side of the coil and the departing side are being influenced by the rotor magnet equally where no current flows in the coil as a whole. That is how the AC waveform happens when the magnet passes the coil.

Mags

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2020, 11:18:38 PM »
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Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2020, 01:30:49 AM »
When a rotor magnet passes a coil, on the approach the magnet field cuts the windings on that side of the coil causing current to flow in the whole coil in 1 polarity, and when the magnet is just passing the departing side of the coil, current in the coil occurs in the opposite polarity.  Diodes or not, there will be lenz occurring on both affected areas of the coil. On approach there will be repulsion to the incoming magnet and repulsion passing dead center cutting the departing windings. When the magnet is crossing dead center, both the approaching side of the coil and the departing side are being influenced by the rotor magnet equally where no current flows in the coil as a whole. That is how the AC waveform happens when the magnet passes the coil.

Mags
      Hi Mags !  If the current in the coil does not flow, then there is no resistance to the movement of the magnet and no Lenz . If you take a small motor and connect a light bulb, it will be more difficult to rotate the motor than without a light bulb.Therefore, when the diode does not pass current at this moment, there can be no resistance to the rotor and Lenz cannot arrive .The reason is the lack of current in the coil without which a magnetic field can not be formed affecting the magnet
     As for the polarity of the voltages from approaching and removing the magnet, that is, a good illustration from the textbook.
  This phenomenon allows the use of a diode for undesirable polarity.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 02:35:52 AM »
      Hi Mags !  If the current in the coil does not flow, then there is no resistance to the movement of the magnet and no Lenz . If you take a small motor and connect a light bulb, it will be more difficult to rotate the motor than without a light bulb.Therefore, when the diode does not pass current at this moment, there can be no resistance to the rotor and Lenz cannot arrive .The reason is the lack of current in the coil without which a magnetic field can not be formed affecting the magnet
     As for the polarity of the voltages from approaching and removing the magnet, that is, a good illustration from the textbook.
  This phenomenon allows the use of a diode for undesirable polarity.
Hey Boris
Well now you show a different magnet coil orientations.   In your new orientation, the mushroom of flux from the magnet affects all sides of the coil equally.  In the previous orientation, stop thinking about the center of the coil as the point of origin of the coils field. As the magnets face comes in front of the windings of the coil, it is that portion of the coil that is mostly being induced by the moving magnets field. Lets say that the coil has a 3ft diameter core. Even your new orientation will show a very very weak current with the magnet moving in and out, because the dense flux of the magnet is not anywhere near any windings.  But if we brush that magnet against a portion of the windings, we will get more current. 

So our rotor approaches the rt side of the windings first, and lets say current is going up in those wire in front of the magnet, the field produced by the windings on that part of the coil will go against the rotor magnet motion.  And the same with the departing side of the coil, current will go upward(reversing the coil cirrent direction as a whole) and also produce a field that opposes the rotor magnet motion....
The new orientation does the same essentially, if we look at the angle of the flux from the magnet in relation to the windings.  When the magnet goes in, the magnets field cuts all windings in the same direction, and the field in the winding opposes the magnets field direction of movement. The same with pulling the magnet in the outer direction, the coils fields oppose the fields of the magnet in the outer direction also.  So if we use the word 'opposition' in relation to the magnets direction of field motion, we dont necessarily need to call it attraction or repulsion, once we understand what is actually happening between the moving magnet fields and the windings reactions.

So with a diode, you are only avoiding 1/2 of the induction of the coil by the magnet and half of the lenz in a sense. You will either have induction and lenz on the approach of say a positive polarity, or on the departure from dead center, a negative coil output and lenz once again, depending on the diode polarity set.

Mags

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 02:35:52 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2020, 03:02:42 AM »
Hey Boris
Well now you show a different magnet coil orientations.   In your new orientation, the mushroom of flux from the magnet affects all sides of the coil equally.  In the previous orientation, stop thinking about the center of the coil as the point of origin of the coils field. As the magnets face comes in front of the windings of the coil, it is that portion of the coil that is mostly being induced by the moving magnets field. Lets say that the coil has a 3ft diameter core. Even your new orientation will show a very very weak current with the magnet moving in and out, because the dense flux of the magnet is not anywhere near any windings.  But if we brush that magnet against a portion of the windings, we will get more current. 

So our rotor approaches the rt side of the windings first, and lets say current is going up in those wire in front of the magnet, the field produced by the windings on that part of the coil will go against the rotor magnet motion.  And the same with the departing side of the coil, current will go upward(reversing the coil cirrent direction as a whole) and also produce a field that opposes the rotor magnet motion....
The new orientation does the same essentially, if we look at the angle of the flux from the magnet in relation to the windings.  When the magnet goes in, the magnets field cuts all windings in the same direction, and the field in the winding opposes the magnets field direction of movement. The same with pulling the magnet in the outer direction, the coils fields oppose the fields of the magnet in the outer direction also.  So if we use the word 'opposition' in relation to the magnets direction of field motion, we dont necessarily need to call it attraction or repulsion, once we understand what is actually happening between the moving magnet fields and the windings reactions.

So with a diode, you are only avoiding 1/2 of the induction of the coil by the magnet and half of the lenz in a sense. You will either have induction and lenz on the approach of say a positive polarity, or on the departure from dead center, a negative coil output and lenz once again, depending on the diode polarity set.

Mags

So if you use a diode, what advantage do we have by bypassing 1/2 of the induction cycle?
Mags

Offline citfta

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2020, 03:48:17 AM »
Hi Mags,


I think I understand what Boris is proposing.  If you look at the picture he posted in the first post of this thread you will see a couple of pieces of metal as part of the rotor.  I think his idea is that if you draw current from the coil as the magnet is leaving the coil, the current in the coil will attract the metal part of the rotor and help to overcome the attraction of Lenz.  Since he has not shown any kind of working device I am assuming this is only theory on his part.  It would be an interesting experiment to try I guess.


Boris, if I misunderstood what you are proposing then please correct my mistakes.


Respectfully,
Carroll

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2020, 03:48:17 AM »
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Offline BorisKrabow

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2020, 11:27:26 AM »
Hi Mags,


I think I understand what Boris is proposing.  If you look at the picture he posted in the first post of this thread you will see a couple of pieces of metal as part of the rotor.  I think his idea is that if you draw current from the coil as the magnet is leaving the coil, the current in the coil will attract the metal part of the rotor and help to overcome the attraction of Lenz.  Since he has not shown any kind of working device I am assuming this is only theory on his part.  It would be an interesting experiment to try I guess.


Boris, if I misunderstood what you are proposing then please correct my mistakes.


Respectfully,
Carroll
  Hi  Carroll ,  Everything is right . (  Sorry I use google translator   :D  ;D  )
         The following happens on this device :
  1. when the coil counteracts the outgoing magnet it at the same time attracts pieces of iron

  2. Asymmetry applied . Pieces of iron are attracted to the coil, neutralizing the Lenz effect.
            At this moment, the current and magnetic field in the coil disappear, since the magnet completely leaves the coil.
       Iron parts leave the coil without being affected by braking forces .
            So it turns out Free Energy    :)   Next, we are waiting for the repetition of this cycle.  ....  Eternal Holiday  :D  ....

                                                                                              I am grateful that attention was paid to my modest work  .

   Regards,
   Boris
       

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2020, 11:43:23 AM »
  Hi  Carroll ,  Everything is right . (  Sorry I use google translator   :D ;D  )
         The following happens on this device :
  1. when the coil counteracts the outgoing magnet it at the same time attracts pieces of iron

  2. Asymmetry applied . Pieces of iron are attracted to the coil, neutralizing the Lenz effect.
            At this moment, the current and magnetic field in the coil disappear, since the magnet completely leaves the coil.
       Iron parts leave the coil without being affected by braking forces .
            So it turns out Free Energy    :)   Next, we are waiting for the repetition of this cycle.  ....  Eternal Holiday  :D  ....

                                                                                              I am grateful that attention was paid to my modest work  .

   Regards,
   Boris
     
Hi Boris, 

Could you share some measurement results on the generator performance? 
I mean if you already managed to build and test such setup.   
Of course, several "small details" are still to be taken care of in this setup but they are surely solvable.   8)

Greetings
Gyula

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2020, 11:43:23 AM »
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Offline Thaelin

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2020, 11:23:18 PM »
@Boris:
     This is a very novel idea. Holds great merit for working well. Tests will show.


@Mags
     In response to post #4, If you were to use a hall triggering a mosfet at the correct time as in starting of the outgoing cycle, would this not cure the need for the diodes? I am wondering also if an AC solid state relay triggered by the same hall circuit would work. Since it is a zero-crossing device, when triggered on, will stay on until the output of the coil passes the zero state and then reset.


Just rambles.  thay

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2020, 12:31:50 AM »
@Boris:
     This is a very novel idea. Holds great merit for working well. Tests will show.


@Mags
     In response to post #4, If you were to use a hall triggering a mosfet at the correct time as in starting of the outgoing cycle, would this not cure the need for the diodes? I am wondering also if an AC solid state relay triggered by the same hall circuit would work. Since it is a zero-crossing device, when triggered on, will stay on until the output of the coil passes the zero state and then reset.


Just rambles.  thay
Boris' configuration will have to be tested.   If the iron washers help, Id like to see it.
Mags

Offline citfta

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2020, 01:38:40 AM »
I have another thought on this idea.  IF this idea actually works then with the right size iron or steel piece of metal in relation to the size and strength of the magnet should make the device self adjusting in regard to overcoming the Lenz force of the leaving magnet.  As you draw more current from the coil then the attraction of the iron piece to the coils should also increase helping to overcome the increase in Lenz force.  An interesting idea.


Carroll

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Minimal Lenz Generator V2
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2020, 10:23:20 AM »
I have another thought on this idea.  IF this idea actually works then with the right size iron or steel piece of metal in relation to the size and strength of the magnet should make the device self adjusting in regard to overcoming the Lenz force of the leaving magnet.  As you draw more current from the coil then the attraction of the iron piece to the coils should also increase helping to overcome the increase in Lenz force.  An interesting idea.


Carroll
Hi Carroll, 

Good comment, thanks,  and additionally may I add the soft iron material should have low remanence and minimal eddy current loss in it (laminated core cut to size or ferrite pieces would be preferred).   
Regarding the generator coils they should be wound with thick wire to reduce wire loss, and to make up for the not 100% output power utilization the number of coils and permanent magnets should be increased.  (I mean the load appears only after TDC.)

Hi Boris,  I am curious do you have Version 3 of this setup ?   8)    ;)   

Gyula

 

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