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2020 builders survivor board => General Builders discussion => Topic started by: sparkmen on June 27, 2020, 05:32:25 PM

Title: Alternators, dc generators and alike
Post by: sparkmen on June 27, 2020, 05:32:25 PM
hi
is known the procedure to create electrical power by moving a coil through magnetic field or a magnetic field through coil, as dc generators or alternators.
all known or better said used procedures requires a mechanical work from which we calculate system efficiency.
what if we provide a moving magnetic field without using mechanical work, or better little mechanical work?
will there be something that will not suffice?
to me, the theory looks fine,according to present electricity laws.
pleased to hear .
rgds to all
Title: Re: Alternators, dc generators and alike
Post by: bistander on June 27, 2020, 06:09:42 PM
hi
is known the procedure to create electrical power by moving a coil through magnetic field or a magnetic field through coil, as dc generators or alternators.
all known or better said used procedures requires a mechanical work from which we calculate system efficiency.
what if we provide a moving magnetic field without using mechanical work, or better little mechanical work?
will there be something that will not suffice?
to me, the theory looks fine,according to present electricity laws.
pleased to hear .
rgds to all

Hi sparkmen,
The magnetic field moves like you describe in a transformer, from one direction to the other with each cycle of the AC. And there will be a rotating magnetic field in a 3 phase synchronous or induction machine (motor or generator) at stall (no physical motion). Is that what you're looking for?
Regards,
bi
Title: Re: Alternators, dc generators and alike
Post by: sparkmen on June 27, 2020, 06:19:08 PM
hi bi,
 in transformers we have high/low on field.
i m thinking of an almost constant field in rotation ,like when you have permanent magnets creating the field , no high/low.
just that field rotated with very low mechanical power requirements
this way we expose induced coils to variable magnetic field and that is what creates the voltage.
rgds
Title: Re: Alternators, dc generators and alike
Post by: sparkmen on June 27, 2020, 07:14:26 PM
for easy explanation and hope for easy understanding lets look into a car alternator:
-stator with output coils
-rotor with excitation coil, supplied by car battery.
to provide output on coils we need to turn rotor using mechanical power from engine . this way we expose the output coils to variable magnetic field. the more power taken from output, more mechanical power needed to rotate due to what is known as drag and other forces. But the excitation power required not vary much, more like instead of coil we have permanent magnets rotor

right up to here i guess.
Title: Re: Alternators, dc generators and alike
Post by: sparkmen on June 27, 2020, 07:30:50 PM
now we take away the rotor and do something else.
from scrapyard we find a brushed motor with rotor that can fit to replace the old one, preferable with as many comutator segments as possible, remove old coils and make new ones as attached
Title: Re: Alternators, dc generators and alike
Post by: sparkmen on June 28, 2020, 10:42:09 AM
above only one pair of brushes/pair of poles.can be multiplied after.
the new rotor together with original brush stand .. Create a system to hold the rotor and brushes.... we apply power on brush depending on what voltage designed to work.
if brushes stationary,no matter how fast we turn the rotor, magnetic field remain stationary.
2 coils on rotor will always be short circuited by brush contacts.
now make rotor stationary and rotate powered brushes.....we have a rotating  field on rotor? I think so.

the new rotor can go now inside car alternator and interlock the system, with very small clearance between rotor/stator,like paper thin.

if brushes are rotated  by a small motor, do we have the variable flux on output coil? it should....
or we can make brushes stationary and rotate the interlocked system, effect should be the same.

both methods have draw back... rotating brushes with high speed can open brush contacts at some points.... sparking and so on
making stationary brush and rotate system.... if not proper weight balanced can be an issue but that can be solved..

all above only on paper done so far, i'm  not able to build anything for next 2 months .... just the idea is itching a lot...so here is freely shared.

Could be that Figuera was  trying to hide such ideas on his patents?

If anyone use his time to check , please let me know of the outcome...

rgds