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2020 builders survivor board => Cyril Smith AKA Smudge builders group => Topic started by: Smudge on June 05, 2020, 05:49:31 PM

Title: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Smudge on June 05, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
This bench has been started with the intention of investigation of the Arthur Manelas and Floyd Sweet devices.  Both used one inch thick rectangular slabs of ferrite magnet material, either strontium ferrite of barium ferrite.  Both devices had sets of coils wound over the ferrite slab, each coil wound around one of the three principal axes of the ferrite slab.  And both devices were witnessed to be overunity.  Sweet used bifilar coils while Manelas used a special form of twirled pair that is different from the usual twisted pair.  The Sweet device has been discussed elsewhere on this forum but not so the Manelas device.  Brian Ahern (Vibronic Energy Technologies Corp) has looked at the latter from the view that the anomalous energy results from Nano-Ferromagnetism where the small grain size in the ferrite (3-12nM) impose collective action of the nuclei to vibrate cooperatively.  Attached is his presentation given some years ago that shows details of the Manelas equipment.

Both Sweet and Ahern demonstrated levitation (repulsion) above a conditioned ferrite magnet, Sweet showed a transformer lamination while Ahern used a steel hat-pin (see image below).  They assumed that this came from oscillations within the magnet where it is known that an alternating ferromagnet will repel conducting objects.  Yet such oscillations have never been detected or measured to date.  That repulsion has been noticed in small regions above magnets with holes through them, and is simply a result of the field pattern.  Most people are conditioned into perceiving magnets as having poles where like poles repel while unlike poles attract (and for the impossible point poles the inverse square law for the magnitude of the force).  That simplistic view hides the true reason for the force on a magnet, the non-uniform field in which the magnet sits.  It is quite easy to condition a large ferrite slab by applying to it a smaller NdFeB disc magnet in repulse mode (see image below).  When pressed so as to touch the ferrite the repulsion changes to attraction as the stronger field of the disc magnet causes the ferrite grains to flip and reverse their magnetization.  This reversed polarity doesn’t penetrate right through the ferrite, only a small depth suffers this reversal.  A FEMM simulation of such a conditioned magnet is shown below, along with the field taken along a vertical line above the ferrite.  This clearly shows a field maximum above the magnet towards which a small ferromagnetic object (such as a hat-pin) will be drawn.  That levitation is not an indication of oscillations within the magnet.

(As an aside to this discussion, for anyone interested in gold prospecting this form of levitation can be reversed to create a magnet that will attract gold.  If the two magnetized regions are created by coils wound onto soft magnetic material, the total field can be alternating instead of static.  Then that small region that otherwise repels steel will attract conductive material such as gold.  Maybe better than getting your hands cold while gold panning!)

That there is no measurable oscillating field outside a permanent magnet does not mean internal atomic oscillations are absent, it just means that those internal movements are incoherent, their long range fields all cancel each other out.  However some of those persistent atomic movements can be forced to cohere, as is now well known in the fields of NMR, NQR, ESR, EPR and FMR.  Ahern is looking at the science of Vibronics Spectroscopy for the answers.  More will be published here on the possibility that small magnetized regions (magnetic bubbles or stripes) that are in spatial correlation with the conductor lying on the surface of the magnet can be moved in oscillatory fashion so as to induce voltage into that conductor.

Smudge   
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: AlienGrey on June 07, 2020, 02:21:26 AM
This bench has been started with the intention of investigation of the Arthur Manelas and Floyd Sweet devices.  Both used one inch thick rectangular slabs of ferrite magnet material, either strontium ferrite of barium ferrite.  Both devices had sets of coils wound over the ferrite slab, each coil wound around one of the three principal axes of the ferrite slab.  And both devices were witnessed to be overunity.  Sweet used bifilar coils while Manelas used a special form of twirled pair that is different from the usual twisted pair.  The Sweet device has been discussed elsewhere on this forum but not so the Manelas device.  Brian Ahern (Vibronic Energy Technologies Corp) has looked at the latter from the view that the anomalous energy results from Nano-Ferromagnetism where the small grain size in the ferrite (3-12nM) impose collective action of the nuclei to vibrate cooperatively.  Attached is his presentation given some years ago that shows details of the Manelas equipment.

Both Sweet and Ahern demonstrated levitation (repulsion) above a conditioned ferrite magnet, Sweet showed a transformer lamination while Ahern used a steel hat-pin (see image below).  They assumed that this came from oscillations within the magnet where it is known that an alternating ferromagnet will repel conducting objects.  Yet such oscillations have never been detected or measured to date.  That repulsion has been noticed in small regions above magnets with holes through them, and is simply a result of the field pattern.  Most people are conditioned into perceiving magnets as having poles where like poles repel while unlike poles attract (and for the impossible point poles the inverse square law for the magnitude of the force).  That simplistic view hides the true reason for the force on a magnet, the non-uniform field in which the magnet sits.  It is quite easy to condition a large ferrite slab by applying to it a smaller NdFeB disc magnet in repulse mode (see image below).  When pressed so as to touch the ferrite the repulsion changes to attraction as the stronger field of the disc magnet causes the ferrite grains to flip and reverse their magnetization.  This reversed polarity doesn’t penetrate right through the ferrite, only a small depth suffers this reversal.  A FEMM simulation of such a conditioned magnet is shown below, along with the field taken along a vertical line above the ferrite.  This clearly shows a field maximum above the magnet towards which a small ferromagnetic object (such as a hat-pin) will be drawn.  That levitation is not an indication of oscillations within the magnet.

(As an aside to this discussion, for anyone interested in gold prospecting this form of levitation can be reversed to create a magnet that will attract gold.  If the two magnetized regions are created by coils wound onto soft magnetic material, the total field can be alternating instead of static.  Then that small region that otherwise repels steel will attract conductive material such as gold.  Maybe better than getting your hands cold while gold panning!)

That there is no measurable oscillating field outside a permanent magnet does not mean internal atomic oscillations are absent, it just means that those internal movements are incoherent, their long range fields all cancel each other out.  However some of those persistent atomic movements can be forced to cohere, as is now well known in the fields of NMR, NQR, ESR, EPR and FMR.  Ahern is looking at the science of Vibronics Spectroscopy for the answers.  More will be published here on the possibility that small magnetized regions (magnetic bubbles or stripes) that are in spatial correlation with the conductor lying on the surface of the magnet can be moved in oscillatory fashion so as to induce voltage into that conductor.

Smudge
Hi Mr Smudge thats a very interesting point of view T1000 brought that idea up 3 years ago I wasn't too sure how it was actuly done.
Many thanks on that one.

AG
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Dansway on June 07, 2020, 03:26:50 AM
Levitation on ferrite magnet by Manelas and Sweet 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEdcwquo_oc&pbjreload=101
Interesting effect.  So glad the "negative" is gone.
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: ramset on June 07, 2020, 03:34:55 AM
Sir Your you tube link is not opening without adjustment. I see it is Our wonderful member woopyJump...if you hear from him tell Him Physics Prof is trying to reach him...hope all is well with him.[actually many of us have been wondering about Laurent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEdcwquo_oc&pbjreload=101 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEdcwquo_oc&pbjreload=101)
sorry for intrusion...
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Dansway on June 07, 2020, 03:37:48 AM
Thank you for adjusting the link.  I have not seen anything like that before.  Some interesting possibilities from this thread.
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Smudge on June 07, 2020, 12:09:20 PM
I have removed all the posts concerning Chris's remarks on conditioning and levitation, as this is a distraction from the subject at hand.  I am pleased that Whoopy has replicated the same levitation feature that Ahern did, it is easily explained from the field pattern and has nothing to do with the how the Sweet or Manelas devices worked.  If someone else wishes to make use of this feature then please create another thread devoted to that subject.

Smudge
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Smudge on June 07, 2020, 12:50:39 PM
Here is a paper I wrote 4 years ago suggesting that surface domains in the form of magnetic stripes (Sweet) or magnetic bubbles (Manelas) are created on the ferrite.  The output coil is in spatial correlation with these domains such that any surface movement of those domains induces voltage into the output coil.  It strikes me that this could be proven by experiment.  It may be noted that the Sweet ferrite billet is reported to exhibit domains in the form of stripes "like plywood".
Smudge
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Jimboot on June 08, 2020, 01:45:21 PM
I had already a magnet from a previous experiment of Brads that I did this to. I managed to get a razor blade standing upright, i haven't tried the pin though. I couldn't the blade to "flutter" like floyd's tho. Thanks for the paper too. I'll need to read it several times.

Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Jimboot on November 08, 2020, 08:24:11 AM
Finally got around to replicating. 6x4” on order. https://youtu.be/I2BuLaRnZ8U (https://youtu.be/I2BuLaRnZ8U)
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Jimboot on November 12, 2020, 11:55:51 AM
My new magnet arrived :) Thanks Cyril, I find this experiment very interesting. I'm surprised how much it lifts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf2KDMs-qFk
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: Smudge on November 12, 2020, 03:52:05 PM
My new magnet arrived :) Thanks Cyril, I find this experiment very interesting. I'm surprised how much it lifts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf2KDMs-qFk
Thanks for doing that experiment.  It may seem surprising but it is all clearly just simple physics.  I was interested in doing the same thing with AC electromagnets so as to create a magnet that would attract gold.  Do away with all that water panning and just pull the gold out with a magnet.  The killer there could be the skin effect, at the frequencies where it becomes effective the skin effect reduces the induced eddy current dipole moment and that reduces the magnetic force.  But AC or pulsed electromagnets are used in recycling centers to remove non-magnetic metals from conveyor belts, so why not remove gold from a conveyor belt carrying river sediment?

Smudge
Title: Re: Sweet and Manelas devices
Post by: ramset on November 24, 2020, 06:44:43 PM
Grumpy posted a Manelas link
https://ecatsite.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/ahern-manelas-device.pdf (https://ecatsite.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/ahern-manelas-device.pdf)


And reposted a Smudge link here
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3862.msg85536;topicseen#msg85536 (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3862.msg85536;topicseen#msg85536)