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Author Topic: Floor's Magnets explained  (Read 9928 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2020, 02:36:29 AM »
I grew confused about the thread switch. You are correct about everything. The shield rotor needs a cog wheel and rachet mechanism. RPM is not a major factor.

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2020, 02:36:29 AM »

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2020, 02:49:01 AM »
Thanks

I will copy and paste our entire conversation and drawings to over here.  Only missing my own extraneous requests to move the discussion to here.

   floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2020, 03:32:13 AM »

synchro1
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #198 on: June 13, 2020, 12:16:55 AM »

@Floor:

Have you thought about a latching mechanism that would hold the repulsion magnet in place while the shield magnet withdraws? The power stored in a spring by the repulsion magnet must be enough to return the shield and reposition the repulsion magnet. Have you imagined any mechanical set of simple levers, springs and gears to get it to power itself?

Two latches would allow the repulsion magnet to load and lock a spring. Start there to initiate the cycle and see what can work! That spring must first move the shield then release the repulsion magnet from the latch.

It would help to have a spring latch on the sliding shield magnet as well. Both the repulsion magnet spring and the sliding shield springs would be cocked and loaded in succession, but more power in the repulsion magnet spring.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 02:27:43 AM by synchro1 »
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synchro1
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #199 on: June 13, 2020, 12:49:22 AM »

Intersecting rack, pinion and barrel gear; coupled with the springs and latches, this gear package should get it to work. different gear ratios are possible with a center gear on the barrel, transforming power into distance.

* rack pinion barrel gear..png (10.38 kB, 457x412 - viewed 81 times.)
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Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #199 on: June 13, 2020, 12:49:22 AM »

synchro1
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #200 on: June 13, 2020, 01:06:23 AM »

Like this; The spring has to release and push the gear rack before the repulsion magnet is repositioned by the last bit of force. A spring with a center latch pin may help this to work! This would allow the spring to release part way to first move the shield magnet, then release completely to reposition the free moving repulsion magnet. The combination of the 3d printed gears and the double latching center pin springs can bring this concept to life!

The sliding shield magnet has to work against a weak latching spring that's loaded by the repulsion main power magnet spring.

* multipal gears.png (6.92 kB, 324x265 - viewed 84 times.)
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synchro1
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #201 on: June 13, 2020, 03:01:09 AM »

    Quote

moving two shields from the ends to the center would half the pinion throw, double the rpm or power. the perpendicular rack is missing, but can be a complex package like above.

* diametric.png (9.5 kB, 575x321 - viewed 90 times.)
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Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #201 on: June 13, 2020, 03:01:09 AM »

synchro1
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #202 on: June 13, 2020, 03:57:44 AM »

Here's an idea for a motor. The rotor with the shields pumps multiple connected repulsion magnets. Gravity returns them, but the power of the combined repulsion would be multiplied! This set of repulsion magnets would need a latch to keep them in position for maximum force. Six or eight tied together should generate many times the force needed to rotate the shield rotor. A screw axle through the center could rotate the shield rotor a notch at a time.

Floor
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #203 on: June 13, 2020, 11:16:26 AM »

@ Synchro

Firstly, thanks for the input.


 synchro1

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #205 on: June 13, 2020, 11:31:06 AM »

    Quote

Have you tried a vertical gate? The repulsion magnet, guided by craft sticks, can reposition by gravity this way and the repulsion force would be easy to gauge by it's elevation.
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Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #205 on: June 13, 2020, 11:31:06 AM »

Floor

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #206 on: June 13, 2020, 11:47:37 AM »

Have not tried a vertical gate .

floor

synchro1

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #207 on: June 13, 2020, 11:54:10 AM »

Thanks. 7 grams to slide and 1 pound 5 ounces of repulsion force equals a 90 to one force ratio. Perhaps a top rotor in attraction could multiply this by a factor of two? The repulsion, attraction magnets spoked and axled through the center.
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synchro1

Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #209 on: June 13, 2020, 03:17:03 PM »

Here's the twin shield rotor attraction repulsion, gravity assisted axial pumper; Maybe 14 grams of force to power the rotors and 3 pounds of perpendicular axle pressure! That's a ratio of around 100 to 1! We can pulse the rotor with a magnet coil and add a ratchet latch.


This would operate a spring backed pancake pump extremely efficiently. A 3d molded frame would be ideal. The shield rotor connects to the bearing hub protruding from the casing and the bearing also allows the axle to slide.


synchro1
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #210 on: June 13, 2020, 10:20:19 PM »

this shows the frame braces and repulsion magnets for a monopole. the center sleeve bearing supports piston axle and moving magnets. the shield rotors connect top and bottom to the rim of the rotating hub on the sleeve bearings. 2 shield rotors need 2 sleeve bearings.

Floor
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #211 on: Today at 01:37:50 AM »


@ synchro

Is there a reason why you have not moved this over to the other topic as per my request ?

There is no momentum conservation advantage to a rotating platter, unless the shield magnet
array / arrays physical dimensions are long enough to continue the shielding during the return of the output magnet to its near / start position. Other wise, the platter would need to start and stop,  just as would a reciprocating shield.  Also the gap in the shielding, between the shields next arrival must be long enough to allow the output stroke to complete.

                 See JPG below. That design could of course be instead based upon a platter.
.... ..... ..... .....
I envision a low speed high force device.  Low speed means small losses due to resistance to acceleration,  because high speeds are never reached within the magnet assembly itself.

To conserve momentum, then becomes a little or no advantage proposition.

High speed / rotation so on, may be later accomplished in a second stage (gears).

  Just my take on it though.
             floor

Floor
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #213 on: Today at 02:24:39 AM »

Qoute from synchro1

Here's an idea for a motor. The rotor with the shields pumps multiple connected repulsion magnets. Gravity returns them, but the power of the combined repulsion would be multiplied! This set of repulsion magnets would need a latch to keep them in position for maximum force. Six or eight tied together should generate many times the force needed to rotate the shield rotor. A screw axle through the center could rotate the shield rotor a notch at a time.

end of quote from synchro 1

This is not then a continuous rotation platter ?

The power is multiplied because all pumped magnets arrive at the non-shielding parts of the platter at the same time?

Pumped magnets latched at near position until fully exposed to the fixed magnets by the platter's rotation?

A shield magnet presents both a N and a S pole, to both, the fixed and pumped magnets, when the shield magnet is between those two ?

    Nice

      floor
Re: Magnet force shield
« Reply #214 on: Today at 02:34:47 AM »

Alternatively

The fixed and pumped magnets each present a N and a S pole to a single pole of a shield magnet?

   floor


 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2020, 03:32:13 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2020, 02:14:17 PM »
Our two designs do the same thing. Mine is vertical and yours horizontal. The vertical version permits us to connect the repulsion magnets to a spoke and central axle. A snapping rachet mechanism turning the shield rotor would help maximize force on the pump piston. A rotating "Step Motor" attached to the axle would power this beautifully.

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2020, 06:31:34 PM »
The design "floor(1) JPG" is a modification of another drawing I did and which I presented.  It is  modified to function similarly to your design.  It was easier to modify that old drawing, rather than draw your design from scratch.

Studying / contemplating your design, I saw an important detail.

Note...

1. The shielding magnet's path of travel is centered upon the faces of a fixed and an output magnet during its travel. 

2. Its travel is straight line, and its path remains constantly parallel to the faces of both the fixed and the output magnet.  (plane 1)

3. A shield magnet's travel must ALSO be straight line, in that plane (plane 2) which is at a right angle to the plane of the platter rotation / the plane parallel to the two (facing each other) faces, of the fixed and out put magnets.

4.  If a shield magnet's path of travel is curved, because the platter is round (it rotates), this will affect the amount of force / work done during insertion and removal of a shield magnet.

Some small deviation from straight line travel will likely have only a small effect.  But this would probably require a large platter diameter / curvature. 

I recommend testing before proceeding with a build.

  regards
   best wishes
     floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2020, 06:31:34 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2020, 06:51:10 PM »
Quote from Synchro 1

"Have you thought about a latching mechanism that would hold the repulsion magnet in place while the shield magnet withdraws? "

End of quote

I came up with latch design some time ago.  Very low power consumption, but some what awkward / bulky.

I'll see if I can find it.

   floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2020, 07:35:03 PM »
Latch design

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2020, 07:35:03 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2020, 08:03:26 PM »

This mechanism transfers solenoid motion to the retraction of shield gate magnet pincers on the perpendicular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR_d4NTFNn4&list=PLhoXNQqrCmEfAaTf0AfQ1Ztxmz2DoZiCk&index=7


We would need to latch the repulsion magnet. Now, the question is: Would the force of the rising repulsion magnet equal or exceed the force needed to close the scissor shield allowing the repulsion magnet to reposition itself by force of gravity?


Any amount of power over what it would take for the repulsion magnet to trigger the Shield gates is what the power of the OU pump would achieve.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2020, 08:03:26 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2020, 08:34:41 PM »

Here's a self timed crank slider gate mechanism: This gear alone would yield the gravity repositioning moment for the repulsion magnets. This one would eliminate the need for latches. "Inline magnets" would deliver the same force as the circular version!

We can run a super powerful (Clutch cushioned) pump with a tiny D.C. motor. The gear does all the work. The pump can have magnets positioned in a rectangular grid, and run trays of shield magnets..

A step motor solenoid and digital controller connected to a square tray of magnet sliders would work best!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFaLPuKkyAE&list=PLhoXNQqrCmEfAaTf0AfQ1Ztxmz2DoZiCk&index=197

Offline synchro1

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2020, 11:14:59 PM »

This retractable pen mechanism could rotate the shield rotor from pressure on the axle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjByJMGfUpY

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2020, 11:14:59 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2020, 12:14:07 AM »
A cube of magnets with racks attached to a central axle and twin solenoid stepper motors pushing and pulling bristling shield gates from each side between the repulsion rack magnets and the stators. The central axle would deliver the combined force of all the magnets in the cube up through the center, then reposition by gravity.

I am willing to invest money in the 3D design and printing of a cube frame with slider racks and center axle. Start with one cube of 8.

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2020, 02:03:34 AM »

@ Synchro 1

  Modified / repeat of  reply #19

The design "floor(1) JPG" is a modification of another drawing I did and which I presented.  It is  modified to function similarly to your design.  It was easier to modify that old drawing, rather than draw your design from scratch.

Studying / contemplating your design, I saw an important detail.

Note...

1. The shielding magnet's path of travel is CENTERED UPON the faces of a fixed and an output magnet during its travel.

IF the insertion of the shielding is NOT straight line, IT WILL NOT BE CENTERED throughout its course of travel between the stator and output magnets.

2. Its travel is straight line, and its path remains CONSTANTLY PARALLEL to the faces of both the fixed and the output magnet.  (plane 1)

3. A shield magnet's travel must ALSO be straight line, in that plane (plane 2) which is at a right angle to the plane of the platter rotation / the plane parallel to the two (facing each other) faces, of the fixed and out put magnets.

4.  If a shield magnet's path of travel is curved (plane 2), because the platter is round (it rotates), this will affect the amount of force / work done during insertion and removal of a shield magnet.

        (plane 3) is rt angle to platter face and from center of rotation to the circumference.

Some small deviation from straight line travel will likely have only a small effect.  But this would probably require a large platter diameter / curvature. 

I recommend testing before proceeding with a build.

  regards
   best wishes
     floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2020, 02:08:29 AM »
Otherwise and in the vernacular of our times, awesome !

              floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Floor's Magnets explained
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2020, 04:01:33 AM »
The only over unity that really count !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evN6DIGPIJM

   best wishes
          floor

 

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