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Author Topic: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)  (Read 11859 times)

Offline Smudge

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Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« on: May 26, 2020, 05:16:02 PM »
This Board is set up to encourage experimentation of NMR as a potential source of over unity-energy.  Nuclei having a magnetic moment precess around a magnetic field at the Larmor frequency.  If all the nuclei in a sample can be made to precess in synchronism then they can act like a perpetual generator supplying power.  That this may be possible is evidence by Ramsay (one of the early researchers into NMR) where he describes the experiment as a spin system at negative temperature where he states “It was found for example that, when a negative temperature spin system was subjected to resonance radiation, more radiant energy was given off by the spin system than was absorbed”.   The attached paper gives details of the experiment.

Smudge

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Offline ramset

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2020, 05:42:31 PM »
Here the topic was started back in 2016 ,however I believe some health issues of a few participants did cause it to fall off the page
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3322.msg56207#msg56207
Chet K



Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 07:23:38 AM »



Smudge, I think this avenue is valuable to study!

The paper Smudge reffers to: Here

Floyd Sweet did study EPR, Electron Paramagnetic Resonance. View Here.

I have a problem with this however!

One must think Energy Transfer Mechanism!

Thermionic Converter, or "Generator", is not yet practical in small Energy Machines with large Outputs. So, IMHO we need to think Charge inside the Copper Wire, and getting this Charge to Move - Smudge and I disagree on this, so for this reason, I will not go any further and let Smudge explain to you all how this works.

Best wishes, stay safe and well,
   Chris Sykes

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 07:23:38 AM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 10:49:04 AM »
Can we please keep this thread clear of distractions.  This is not EPR and this is not a Thermionic Converter. 

Anyone can build a proton spin magnetometer using water as the proton source which has a NMR frequency of around 2KHz in the earth's field (pdf's below).  Here on this bench we are using a novel geometry to attain uniformity of magnetic field as supplied by a pair of magnets at a field level where the resonant frequency is much higher than 2KHz, but still within the capability of the home experimenter.  This may allow us to realize Ramsey's observation that the power radiated exceeds the power absorbed.

Smudge

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 11:13:01 AM »

Anyone can build a proton spin magnetometer using water as the proton source which has a NMR frequency of around 2KHz in the earth's field (pdf's below).  Here on this bench we are using a novel geometry to attain uniformity of magnetic field as supplied by a pair of magnets at a field level where the resonant frequency is much higher than 2KHz, but still within the capability of the home experimenter.  This may allow us to realize Ramsey's observation that the power radiated exceeds the power absorbed.

Smudge

The papers you quoted are very interesting but they show that it needs sophisticated electronic circuits to do the measurements. The fine tuning of the frequencies is tricky and the circuit boards need a certain layout to avoid cross-disturbances.

At least your papers and the ones cited started me to think hard. It is intriguing.

I like the set up with the circular water tube and the pancake coils left and right (including the disk magnets), which seems doable at home.

I have a function generator, but it then needs a pretty good circuit to reach the necessary power (Voltage and Amperage) to drive the pancake coils. Also the measuring of the output is not trivial because of the calibration. Does a scope suffice? How big is the difference in the output coil with and without water in the circular tube? The difference could be only in the dielectric properties and not in the magnetic resonance?

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 11:13:01 AM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 12:24:55 PM »
Hi Conrad,
Thank you for your interest in this.

The papers you quoted are very interesting but they show that it needs sophisticated electronic circuits to do the measurements. The fine tuning of the frequencies is tricky and the circuit boards need a certain layout to avoid cross-disturbances.

Don't get carried away by those magnetometer papers.  As magnetometers they are used to measure very small changes in the earth's field and we are not doing that.  We don't need the sophistication used there.

Quote
I have a function generator, but it then needs a pretty good circuit to reach the necessary power (Voltage and Amperage) to drive the pancake coils.
If you need a power amplifier then maybe someone on this forum could help with this.
Quote
Also the measuring of the output is not trivial because of the calibration. Does a scope suffice?
Since we are dealing with sine waves a scope should suffice.
Quote
How big is the difference in the output coil with and without water in the circular tube? The difference could be only in the dielectric properties and not in the magnetic resonance?
With no water present there should be no output, as input and output coils are at 90 degrees to each other.  It is the gyratory property of the protons in the water that couple the input to the output.

Smudge


Offline conradelektro

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 02:44:59 PM »
@Smudge: Thank you for your answers, it clarified a lot.

About the power amplifier:

As I recall, one wants several hundred Volts in the pancake coils, so, an audio speaker amplifier will not do it?

The frequency required for the pancake coils would be 4.25 MHz, which an audio speaker amplifier also can not do.

A power amplifier to several hundred Volts at 4.25 MHz is therefore not that easy. Should the pancake coils get short pulses or a sine wave?

My function generator can do up to 20 MHz sine waves and up to 5 MHz square waves (pulses). I do not want to over complicate the experiment, just wanting to understand the requirements for a possible build in relation to my meager skills.

RF power amplifiers are quite expensive (5000.-- and more):

https://www.bellnw.com/manufacturer/Electronics-and-Innovation/210L.htm
https://www.bellnw.com/manufacturer/Electronics-and-Innovation/1020L.htm

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 02:44:59 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2020, 03:41:05 PM »
Would this RF amplifier be good for the experiment?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100KHz-60MHz-RF-Power-Amplifier-5W-Liner-Amplifier-RF-Broadband-HF-Amp/383126732260

100KHz-60MHz RF Power Amplifier 5W Liner Amplifier RF Broadband HF Amp  (about $ 90.--)

Description: The RF amplifier is a linear power amplifier with low distortion and wide frequency range, which can be used for various forms of signal amplification. Worked as a final stage power amplifier, it can be applied to TPMS transmission, wireless charging and other communications or remote control, enhancing the transmission power and prolonging the transmission distance. And it also can act as a driver amplifier to promote a final stage high power amplifier. This medium-, long- and high- wave frequency amplifier is suitable for universities, research institutes and radio lovers.

Parameters:
- Frequency: 100 KHz-60 MHz
- Single Power Supply: 12-15V, 0.9A
- Gain: the default is 37dB. (If you need other gains, please contact with our customer service staff.)
- Input Power: 1mW (0dBm); Output Power: 4W
- Working Voltage: 12V (Output Power reaches 6W when the operating voltage comes to 15V)
- Resistance: 50Ω
- THD: - 18dBc Typical Value (Max. output power)
- Input & Output Connector: SMA Female
- Size: 103 x 90 x 50mm (Excludes the size of the input & output connector and the power connector)

Package Included:
- 1 x Radio Frequency Amplifier

This shows that a good RF power amplifier is not easily built at home.


There are 2.5 Watt Chinese RF amplifiers (1 - 1000 MHZ) for about $ 50.-- available.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 05:03:51 PM »
@Smudge: Thank you for your answers, it clarified a lot.

About the power amplifier:

As I recall, one wants several hundred Volts in the pancake coils, so, an audio speaker amplifier will not do it?

The frequency required for the pancake coils would be 4.25 MHz, which an audio speaker amplifier also can not do.

A power amplifier to several hundred Volts at 4.25 MHz is therefore not that easy.

It is quite standard practice to drive from a low voltage low impedance source into a series resonant LC circuit where the inductance obtains a much higher voltage.  If your resonant circuit has a Q of 100 then the several hundred volts needed comes from a source of just several volts.  Audio speaker amplifiers have output impedance of just a few ohms but of course may only cover the audio spectrum.  Others may have an output impedance of 50 ohms.  This value must be taken into account when calculating the Q.

Quote
Should the pancake coils get short pulses or a sine wave?

Sine waves, the CW system applies sine waves.  The pulse NMR system is more complex and not recommended at this stage.

Quote
My function generator can do up to 20 MHz sine waves and up to 5 MHz square waves (pulses). I do not want to over complicate the experiment, just wanting to understand the requirements for a possible build in relation to my meager skills.

That should be quite adequate.

Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 05:03:51 PM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2020, 05:09:07 PM »
Would this RF amplifier be good for the experiment?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100KHz-60MHz-RF-Power-Amplifier-5W-Liner-Amplifier-RF-Broadband-HF-Amp/383126732260

100KHz-60MHz RF Power Amplifier 5W Liner Amplifier RF Broadband HF Amp  (about $ 90.--)

I would say that would do nicely.  The Chinese ones you mentioned could also be used.

Regards
Smudge

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2020, 08:16:46 PM »
What large value should the capacitor have to match the 50 Ohm source of the RF amplifier shown in my post above? (100KHz-60MHz RF Power Amplifier 5W Liner Amplifier RF Broadband HF Amp)

I did a simple calculation for Q=1 of the circuit:

U * I = 5 Watt  ,  U = I * 50 Ohm

From this follows:  I = 0,31 and V = 15,8

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2020, 08:16:46 PM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2020, 05:20:08 PM »
What large value should the capacitor have to match the 50 Ohm source of the RF amplifier shown in my post above? (100KHz-60MHz RF Power Amplifier 5W Liner Amplifier RF Broadband HF Amp)

I did a simple calculation for Q=1 of the circuit:

U * I = 5 Watt  ,  U = I * 50 Ohm

From this follows:  I = 0,31 and V = 15,8

Greetings, Conrad
Well it all depends on your inductance value for the pair of pancake coils.  The variable capacitor (shown as 100pF max) will tune to the desired frequency and the fixed capacitor has to be much greater than whatever that tuned value comes to.  And the frequency to tune to will depend on the magnitude of the applied field from the magnets.  A good guide to get high Q is for the fixed capacitor to be be at least 10 times the variable one, possibly even 100 times.  I will try to do a spreadsheet where you can input your inductance value, the resistance of the coils (taking into account skin effect), the tuned capacitor value, the fixed capacitor value, the generator voltage and the generator source impedance.  Hopefully it will give you a chart of the voltage across the pancake coils against frequency showing it peaking in the typical resonant manner.

Smudge

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2020, 05:40:17 PM »
Well it all depends on your inductance value for the pair of pancake coils.  The variable capacitor (shown as 100pF max) will tune to the desired frequency and the fixed capacitor has to be much greater than whatever that tuned value comes to.  And the frequency to tune to will depend on the magnitude of the applied field from the magnets.  A good guide to get high Q is for the fixed capacitor to be be at least 10 times the variable one, possibly even 100 times.  I will try to do a spreadsheet where you can input your inductance value, the resistance of the coils (taking into account skin effect), the tuned capacitor value, the fixed capacitor value, the generator voltage and the generator source impedance.  Hopefully it will give you a chart of the voltage across the pancake coils against frequency showing it peaking in the typical resonant manner.

Smudge

Thank you for your help.

I will try to print the circular water tube with my 3D-Printer within the next days. It will be interesting whether this will be possible.

And then I will order the following RF amplifier from China. The resistance of the output is not clear, but I hope to be able to figure it out. The EUR 22,04 will not hurt me, even if all is in vain. May be I can set up a revolutionary radio station if all fails.

https://www.ebay.at/itm/1-1000MHz-2-5W-HF-VHF-UHF-FM-Transmitter-RF-Power-Amplifier-AMP-For-Ham-Radio/192772405806

Broadband RF small power amplifier, suitable for all types of radio transmission, such as: short-wave FM wireless remote control, FM radio station transmission, amateur radio 135-175MHz, 380-470 MHz walkie-talkie and other launches. The low-frequency input 2mW can output 2.5W maximum power, and the maximum output can be 2W at 500MHz. The maximum output can be 1.5W at 800MHz. The maximum output can be 1.0W at 1000MHz. The amplifier housing has a heat dissipation function and can work stably for a long time.

Technical parameters:

     1) Operating frequency: 1-1000 MHz
     2) Output power: input power: 2mW (3dBm)
                           2.5W (34 dBm) low frequency end (100 MHz)
                           2.0W (33 dBm) IF terminal (500 MHz)
                           1.5W (31 dBm) high frequency end (800 MHz)
                           1.0W (30 dBm) high frequency end (1000 MHz)
    3) Working voltage: 15V (DC)
    4) Operating current: 430 mA (determined by output power)
    5) RF connector: standard SMA female
    6) Dimensions: 82*71*25 mm (length * width * height)
    7) Product weight: 90 g (the housing has heat dissipation function)

Getting the RF amplifier will take up top a month, so, do not hold your breath.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Thaelin

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2020, 05:46:01 PM »
Conrad:
   Fairly standard amp, most likely 50ohm impd. Typical for most.


thay


Offline conradelektro

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Re: Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR)
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2020, 05:52:31 PM »
Conrad:
   Fairly standard amp, most likely 50ohm impd. Typical for most.
thay

Thank you for the reply.

What do you think about it's input impedance? I want to drive it with my 50 Ohm function generator (sine wave at about 4 MHz).

https://www.peaktech.de/produktdetails/kategorie/dds-multifunktionsgeneratoren/produkt/peaktech-4060.871.html

Greetings, Conrad

 

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