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Author Topic: All Permanent Magnet Motor  (Read 25529 times)

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #210 on: May 19, 2020, 09:19:05 PM »
There is no hidden pancake coil or Tesla coil period!!! If you will construct my setup as shown you will be amazed as I was that it works so long as the threaded steel bolt actually touches the 45 degree block magnet at a angle.  That angle can be set using the top of a tumbler so one can work it finger free.  That’s my next step.


Tom

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #210 on: May 19, 2020, 09:19:05 PM »

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #211 on: May 21, 2020, 10:12:10 PM »
There is no hidden pancake coil or Tesla coil period!!! If you will construct my setup as shown you will be amazed as I was that it works so long as the threaded steel bolt actually touches the 45 degree block magnet at a angle.  That angle can be set using the top of a tumbler so one can work it finger free.  That’s my next step.


Tom
There is no reason the large ring magnet now has to be under the free turning  disk with four 45 degree magnets mounted on its surface. I only included it so the disk won’t wobble when weighted down.


As long as the threaded steel WEIGHTED rod makes contact with the magnet the disk will turn.
Think of that in simple terms.  You are stranding on a carpet with a slick oil spot under it. As long as you stand strait up you won’t move.  The second your weight shifts at a angle the carpet will slide out from under you.


My setup is made that simple. 
Tom
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 01:48:25 AM by magnetman12003 »

Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #212 on: May 22, 2020, 04:08:37 PM »
any and all gravity direction is toward the center of the planet not sideways.

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #212 on: May 22, 2020, 04:08:37 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #213 on: May 22, 2020, 06:42:05 PM »
any and all gravity direction is toward the center of the planet not sideways.
The 45 degree blocks are on the OUTSIDES of the 7 1/2 inch diameter spinning disk and that is not the center point of the setup.
End result is the disk spins with weight on the magnet blocks. I have tried this many times and it works every time as long as there is an angle between the threaded rod with weight on it and the rod touches the magnet block. 45 degree seems to work best so far.
Tom

Offline Magluvin

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #214 on: May 22, 2020, 11:44:52 PM »
If it is the additional weight that is the ticket, then does it have to be a bolt that is magnetic?
If it is a magnetic alteration that happens to the 'upper' pole to change its original path, then there must be many ways of doing just that in place of the bolts. 

On of the issues with a mag motor setup like this is, and many dont realize this, is that the is just as much flux from the N side of the angles magnet as the is S pole flux thus no movement. But, if the bolts a redistributing the upper pole in a way that the top pole has less influence on rotation, then maybe the lower or say bottom angled pole has a chance at deflecting the rotor into rotation.  Im not fully convinced it will work as in most cases in physics like this, there is no release of downward pressure to allow continuous motion. But maybe it could be different with magnets..  What I mean by that is typically if magnets are in repulsion or attraction, the net result of any of these actions using moving parts would be the attraction would tend to move the magnets closer and repulsion would move them away. But here the differences would or should remain static, just like the big speaker magnet field, static.
Mags

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #214 on: May 22, 2020, 11:44:52 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #215 on: May 23, 2020, 01:09:31 AM »
If it is the additional weight that is the ticket, then does it have to be a bolt that is magnetic?
If it is a magnetic alteration that happens to the 'upper' pole to change its original path, then there must be many ways of doing just that in place of the bolts. 

On of the issues with a mag motor setup like this is, and many dont realize this, is that the is just as much flux from the N side of the angles magnet as the is S pole flux thus no movement. But, if the bolts a redistributing the upper pole in a way that the top pole has less influence on rotation, then maybe the lower or say bottom angled pole has a chance at deflecting the rotor into rotation.  Im not fully convinced it will work as in most cases in physics like this, there is no release of downward pressure to allow continuous motion. But maybe it could be different with magnets..  What I mean by that is typically if magnets are in repulsion or attraction, the net result of any of these actions using moving parts would be the attraction would tend to move the magnets closer and repulsion would move them away. But here the differences would or should remain static, just like the big speaker magnet field, static.
Mags


I found that using a common steel threaded bolt that was least expensive worked well for me. As long as it had a lead weight near the center of the bolt and the bottom of the bolt was actually touching or pressing onto the 45 degree mounted magnet. My setup spins very fast with fingers holding the bolt at an angle near 45 degrees. Bolt touching the 45 degree magnet.
By using a plastic tumbler to hold up the top end it will spin fingers free. That angle can be set by using the hight of the tumbler lip. My plastic tumblers should be here shortly
If you wish to see a video of this action look at you tubes ((Magnet motor without tumbler))
I am finger holding the weighted threaded steel rod strait up with nothing happening but when I place it at a angle the setup spins by itself rapidly.

Tom

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #216 on: May 23, 2020, 02:05:07 AM »
See Above

Tom
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 05:31:41 AM by magnetman12003 »

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #216 on: May 23, 2020, 02:05:07 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #217 on: May 23, 2020, 09:05:09 AM »
Here's the Hyperlink to Tom's new video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1zKbI3pyuE

Offline gyulasun

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #218 on: May 23, 2020, 03:09:40 PM »
See Above

Tom
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the video, it shows the source of the input energy that causes rotation:

it is the lead weight (lead sinker) tilting movement from a near vertical position towards the near 45 degree position.

And indeed the 6 inch long bolt would exert a pushing force onto the rotatable platform and indeed this force can mainly
come from gravity and from your hand supporting (but not holding!) the bolt with the lead weights on it. 

Your earlier explanation is also ok: 

https://overunity.com/18444/all-permanent-magnet-motor/msg545853/#msg545853

"Think of that in simple terms.  You are stranding (standing) on a carpet with a slick oil spot under it. As long as you stand
strait up you won’t move.  The second your weight shifts at a angle the carpet will slide out from under you. 
My setup is made that simple."   

To make your weight shift you need to make a sudden movement with your body: this is the input energy in this example.

So the moment the bolt with the weights on it gets into the 45 degree resting position, after tilting from its near vertical position,
the initial rotation of the rotor will slowly stop (friction depending). 

Notice that if you tether the bolt (to a support also on the rotor) by a piece of thread to let it rest in the 45 degree position,
 after that the bolt was let tilt from its original vertical position, the pushing force on the rotor can only be smaller than in case
you support the tilting by your hand.  This is because your hand is a support independent from the rotor
 while a tether support mounted onto the rotor is not independent but tied to it. 

I attached two shots from your video, one with the near vertical bolt and the other shows the mostly gravity tilted bolt starts moving the rotor. 
So your setup will not spin if you mount the bolts in immediately in the 45 degree position and do not let them suddenly tilt
by gravity.  But even if you let the bolts tilt first to start rotation, the rotor will stop because the bolts will then remain in resting
at the 45 degree position.
 Understand? 

Gyula

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #218 on: May 23, 2020, 03:09:40 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #219 on: May 23, 2020, 03:26:02 PM »
Once the 45 degree steel rod rests in position, all the weight is directed straight down; Not off to one side!

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #220 on: May 23, 2020, 07:52:29 PM »
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the video, it shows the source of the input energy that causes rotation:

it is the lead weight (lead sinker) tilting movement from a near vertical position towards the near 45 degree position.

And indeed the 6 inch long bolt would exert a pushing force onto the rotatable platform and indeed this force can mainly
come from gravity and from your hand supporting (but not holding!) the bolt with the lead weights on it. 

Your earlier explanation is also ok: 

https://overunity.com/18444/all-permanent-magnet-motor/msg545853/#msg545853

"Think of that in simple terms.  You are stranding (standing) on a carpet with a slick oil spot under it. As long as you stand
strait up you won’t move.  The second your weight shifts at a angle the carpet will slide out from under you. 
My setup is made that simple."   

To make your weight shift you need to make a sudden movement with your body: this is the input energy in this example.

So the moment the bolt with the weights on it gets into the 45 degree resting position, after tilting from its near vertical position,
the initial rotation of the rotor will slowly stop (friction depending). 

Notice that if you tether the bolt (to a support also on the rotor) by a piece of thread to let it rest in the 45 degree position,
 after that the bolt was let tilt from its original vertical position, the pushing force on the rotor can only be smaller than in case
you support the tilting by your hand.  This is because your hand is a support independent from the rotor
 while a tether support mounted onto the rotor is not independent but tied to it. 

I attached two shots from your video, one with the near vertical bolt and the other shows the mostly gravity tilted bolt starts moving the rotor. 
So your setup will not spin if you mount the bolts in immediately in the 45 degree position and do not let them suddenly tilt
by gravity.  But even if you let the bolts tilt first to start rotation, the rotor will stop because the bolts will then remain in resting
at the 45 degree position.
 Understand? 

Gyula
I was holding the camera for that video by myself.  I found out that once the disk spinning action starts it does not quit by holding the bolt in at an angle.  The disk keeps turning so long as the bolt pressure is on the magnet. You have to try it for yourself to see what I am talking about. 

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #220 on: May 23, 2020, 07:52:29 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #221 on: May 23, 2020, 08:11:57 PM »
Tom, what happened to your tumblers or cups? I am sleepless since weeks waiting for a video with the tumblers and everything in place. And hopefully all turning without fingers in the way. The big magnet ring is gone, but no tumblers?

I almost killed myself with the carpet experiment. Leaning backwards till the carpet slid away and me being in the air for a short time. The landing was not so nice. I should have used a huge tumbler to hold on to.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #222 on: May 23, 2020, 10:53:32 PM »
Tom, what happened to your tumblers or cups? I am sleepless since weeks waiting for a video with the tumblers and everything in place. And hopefully all turning without fingers in the way. The big magnet ring is gone, but no tumblers?

I almost killed myself with the carpet experiment. Leaning backwards till the carpet slid away and me being in the air for a short time. The landing was not so nice. I should have used a huge tumbler to hold on to.

Greetings, Conrad


I don’t go out to buy anything but food anymore because of the virus.  All my stuff is ordered now and sent by mail to me.  Good luck ordering anything from China now.    You will find that the steel bolt with a weight on it applies pressure to the 45/degree magnet and that is  what causes the setup to spin as long as the bolt is applying the pressure.   To make it finger free I decided to use a tumbler and angle the bolt inside it.  Use the lip of the tumbler to rest the top of the bolt on. Also allow the bottom of the bolt to touch the 45 degree magnet which it’s attracted to anyhow for pressure.


If done with enough weight on the bolt the disc will keep spinning.   Why should it stop???
I already tried this using my hands without making a video and found I had to Hand chase the bolt around and around.


I finally got my tumblers in so in a short time I will see what happens.


Tom


Offline gyulasun

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #223 on: May 23, 2020, 11:40:23 PM »
I was holding the camera for that video by myself.  I found out that once the disk spinning action starts 
it does not quit by holding the bolt in at an angle.  The disk keeps turning so long as the bolt pressure is 
on the magnet. You have to try it for yourself to see what I am talking about.
Hi Tom,
All I can say is that I keep my fingers crossed your received tumblers would maintain the desired continuous rotation... 

Please, if you make another video, include the start-up of the rotor from a stand still position as you place
the bolts one by one into the tumblers. 

Gyula

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #224 on: May 24, 2020, 02:07:55 AM »
Hi Tom,
All I can say is that I keep my fingers crossed your received tumblers would maintain the desired continuous rotation... 

Please, if you make another video, include the start-up of the rotor from a stand still position as you place
the bolts one by one into the tumblers. 

Gyula
I plan to do just as you say. The bolt angle has to be at 45 degrees or close to it as I am finding out.
Also the threaded bolt MUST touch the 45 degree mounted magnet and have the weight of the bolt on it to insure setup spin. I will have to notch out my tumblers bottoms  to allow the touch to happen.
It also looks like i might have to drill a hole in the side of the tumbler so I can set the bolt angle at or near 45 degrees.  Will let everyone know when finished.
Tom

 

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