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Author Topic: All Permanent Magnet Motor  (Read 35408 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #180 on: May 16, 2020, 11:39:48 AM »
Magnetman has answered but I want to add something I observed in the last 25 years following attempted permanent magnet motors:

= The permanent magnet motor needs to be started by an external force. =

This doesn't say much, as most if not all claimed permanent magnet motors may well be a hoax.

This makes it exactly not testable. There is no reason to consider that there are dynamic effects in that setup, though i cannot exclude that there are.

No, not to see how long it moves, this is not the right way to do it. But, with the same initial external energy, make it to move in one direction, and then in the opposite direction. And then see in what direction it rotates for a longer time.

Again theoretically, when there is no overunity, then the direction in that setup should never matter. If it matters, then there is a reason to consider that there is overunity.

PS What concerns the magnetic forces, they are strong. Which gives an impression like a permanent magnet motor should move with a great force, But, as the asymmetry of the field is evidently small, then in the reality what we would deal with, may be a very weak driving force.


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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #180 on: May 16, 2020, 11:39:48 AM »

Offline conradelektro

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #181 on: May 16, 2020, 11:41:14 AM »
HelloTom (magnetman12003),

I attached a drawing on which I specify the variables or specs needed for replication.

Feel free to disclose (or not) these variables. It would also be helpful to show a video of the motor in operation and photos.

I do not know your plans and expectations concerning this motor. If you want open replication the specs a necessary. I also warn you, that after complete disclosure you will have lost control of your invention. Many will steal it and claim they have invented it all over the world. The world is not just and not grateful.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #182 on: May 16, 2020, 12:08:41 PM »
Conradelectro, i think i can answer most of your questions.

The ring magnets are magnetized so that one pole is on one flat side, and the other pole is on another. The material is likely ferrite, that is ceramic, because likely the magnetic field of the 45 degree magnets should go through the ring magnet below them. At that the type of ferrite matters, as different types of ferrite shield more strongly, or more weakly.

About the material of the bolts, etc, i don't know.

PS The world is stealing right. But when things are openly said than no one cal finally deny who was the original author. Like all know that Whitehead invented the motorized airplane, right? This was a nice joke, but then they cannot entirely deny it either.


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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #182 on: May 16, 2020, 12:08:41 PM »
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Offline kolbacict

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #183 on: May 16, 2020, 01:56:24 PM »
nothing rotates. why?  so beautifully made. tried so hard.  :'(

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #184 on: May 16, 2020, 03:42:38 PM »
nothing rotates. why?  so beautifully made. tried so hard.  :'(

Ahah, so nice.

Now try to push it to one direction, see how much it moves. Then to the opposite direction with the equal force, see whether it moves more, less or the same. Make sure it is on very leveled surface. Of course everyone can try oneself, but this is not exactly proof, as one cannot prove that the force was exactly the same in both directions. But it may tell something to you.


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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #184 on: May 16, 2020, 03:42:38 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #185 on: May 16, 2020, 06:14:56 PM »
nothing rotates. why?  so beautifully made. tried so hard.  :'(

Of course I do not know, but my guess:

- bottom ring magnet is too big and too powerful (it somehow holds the top ring magnet from rotating freely)
- 45° magnets too small and from the wrong material (Ferrite or Neodymium?)
- angle of rod not correct (not necessarily 45°, could be a bit more or less, angle and weight of rod should be adjustable)

This is why I wanted all the specs and photos from magnetman12003 (Tom). Tom probably had many not working attempts till he found a configuration that just works. And every replicator has to go through all the errors unless he gets the exact specs from Tom.

Guessing when replicating is hopeless. But your replication is indeed a beautiful contraption! And be aware: with permanent magnet motors the inventors are always very very close, just one more little adjustment and it will turn by itself. Sometimes the motor turns by holding "something" by hand, but if this "something" (additional magnet, rod, whatever) is mounted the motor does not turn. The search for a permanent magnet motor is an arduous path.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline kolbacict

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #186 on: May 16, 2020, 07:16:22 PM »
Quote
- 45° magnets too small and from the wrong material (Ferrite or Neodymium?)
- angle of rod not correct (not necessarily 45°, could be a bit more or less, angle and weight of rod should be adjustable)
little neodyo. degrees 45. nifiga does not spin.

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #186 on: May 16, 2020, 07:16:22 PM »
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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #187 on: May 16, 2020, 11:34:46 PM »
Of course I do not know, but my guess:

- bottom ring magnet is too big and too powerful (it somehow holds the top ring magnet from rotating freely)
- 45° magnets too small and from the wrong material (Ferrite or Neodymium?)
- angle of rod not correct (not necessarily 45°, could be a bit more or less, angle and weight of rod should be adjustable)

This is why I wanted all the specs and photos from magnetman12003 (Tom). Tom probably had many not working attempts till he found a configuration that just works. And every replicator has to go through all the errors unless he gets the exact specs from Tom.

Guessing when replicating is hopeless. But your replication is indeed a beautiful contraption! And be aware: with permanent magnet motors the inventors are always very very close, just one more little adjustment and it will turn by itself. Sometimes the motor turns by holding "something" by hand, but if this "something" (additional magnet, rod, whatever) is mounted the motor does not turn. The search for a permanent magnet motor is an arduous path.

Greetings, Conrad


I have taken this to a new level now. I removed the large 5 pound top spinning ceramic magnet entirely. So now all you need is one large ceramic ring magnet, 4 grade 50 neo block magnets, and parts that could be bought from EBay, McMaster Carr, Lowe’s, or Home Depot.


Make what you see in the lower photo. The bottom of my magnet blocks are South Poles.
They face the South Pole of the large stationary ceramic ring magnet below them.
I have two full ceramic wheels stacked on the center rod between both so the setup spins extremely fast.

Why the excitement?  Now I m not pushing the 5 pound ceramic magnet around. Only the 1/4 inch thick wood disk I have my 45 degree magnets bonded to. That disk pivots freely with a finger touch. 
When a threaded rod with a SMALL weight on it is touching the 45 degree magnet the setup spins EXTREMELY fast using your fingers. That same idea takes place not by using your fingers but by using a tumbler with the top side holding the weighted rod at a angle.  I am waiting on some tumblers right now.
Tom

Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #188 on: May 17, 2020, 09:10:12 AM »
What happened to the gray stucco feature that appears in the picture below? Your 5 pound ceramic magnet is missing?


This represents a radical departure from your original design! Now it's identical to "egotronic's" fan blade design.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 11:55:02 AM by synchro1 »

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #188 on: May 17, 2020, 09:10:12 AM »
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Offline skywatcher

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #189 on: May 17, 2020, 11:41:49 AM »
Guessing when replicating is hopeless. But your replication is indeed a beautiful contraption! And be aware: with permanent magnet motors the inventors are always very very close, just one more little adjustment and it will turn by itself. Sometimes the motor turns by holding "something" by hand, but if this "something" (additional magnet, rod, whatever) is mounted the motor does not turn. The search for a permanent magnet motor is an arduous path.
There is nothing to replicate because replicating would require a working device in the first place.

Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2020, 12:33:18 PM »
@magnetman12003,


Your new design amounts to nothing more then just adding weights to egotronics model: No different from attaching nuts and bolts to the magnets with the nuts screwed down.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 03:37:45 PM by synchro1 »

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #190 on: May 17, 2020, 12:33:18 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #191 on: May 17, 2020, 02:23:03 PM »
There is nothing to replicate because replicating would require a working device in the first place.

Yes right. Maybe Magnetman has done some experiments, that people can replicate.

One thing, in such setup it should move more in one direction, than the other. If there is any difference, and otherwise its well made, like well leveled, then this indicates overunity. Has Magnetman done any such experiments?

But then in the more measurable way i think, the force when moving in one direction, should also be greater than the force when moving in other direction.


Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #192 on: May 17, 2020, 03:51:00 PM »
Magnetic nuts and bolts attraction would dampen any oscillation on egotronics magnet fan. I see space for a hamster inside at this point.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #193 on: May 17, 2020, 05:10:09 PM »
I am still hoping that Tom (magnetman12003) is on to something interesting, therefore I have some questions, see also the attached drawing.

Am I right that the distance of the wooden disk from the (blue and red) disk magnet is kept by the "two full ceramic wheels stacked on the center rod"?

The ring magnet wants to push the wooden disk with the 45° magnets upwards, but the weight of the wooden disk and the 45° magnets push downwards? The "full ceramic wheels" carry the remaining weight of the wooden disk (with the 45° magnets and the tumblers with the rods)? Therefore there is a fixed distance between the wooden disk and the ring magnet?

Greetings, Conrad

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #194 on: May 17, 2020, 09:01:11 PM »
I am still hoping that Tom (magnetman12003) is on to something interesting, therefore I have some questions, see also the attached drawing.

Am I right that the distance of the wooden disk from the (blue and red) disk magnet is kept by the "two full ceramic wheels stacked on the center rod"?

The ring magnet wants to push the wooden disk with the 45° magnets upwards, but the weight of the wooden disk and the 45° magnets push downwards? The "full ceramic wheels" carry the remaining weight of the wooden disk (with the 45° magnets and the tumblers with the rods)? Therefore there is a fixed distance between the wooden disk and the ring magnet?

Greetings, Conrad


A Gibraltar TALL ( There is short ones)  flanged base cymbal sleeve 8mm is what pivots the 1/4 inch thick wood base I have
The mounted wood setup is under of a old 45 black record.  Cymbal  sleeve Found on EBay.


The 50x 25x 10mm  (4 each) cuboid magnets are set at 45 degree angles by
45 degree brackets silver furniture angle joint corner support. Both Found on EBay.
I am going to enclose a photo of the two all ceramic wheels separating the wood setup disk from the
Large ceramic ring magnet under it.


Tom

 

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