Author Topic: All Permanent Magnet Motor (Read 70210 times)

synchro1 · « **Reply #90 on:** April 15, 2020, 07:23:54 PM »

Quote from: Thaelin on April 15, 2020, 06:27:01 PM

What would keep a builder from locking the top ring to an overhead gantry and allowing the lower ring to spin? This would bypass any imbalances in the setup. I have sourced a set of 5.3 inch rings and 1X2X.5 n45 neos. This is really a simple thing to knock out so decided to do it. I have 5 weeks off at the moment so why not. I will be setting the inside of whichever ring is to move with 3D printed pair that will have skate bearings in both sides. Thanks Magg for sharing as I need things to keep busy with. Love to play with magnets anyhow.

thay

Upload some photos please.

Thaelin · « **Reply #91 on:** April 15, 2020, 10:22:25 PM »

@syncro
That will have to hold until the mags get here. Just ordered them. I will be setting up a jig that will be able to allow me to do both. I am in the run to print up the mounting plates for the ring mags now. Going to use skate bearings on both setups so to aid in the turning on the shaft. In the end, if this goes, I will make the shaft rotate with the movable ring to be able to draw out movement. Not sure that this will have much torque tho. Will just have to wait and see.
For what it cost to set this up, well worth the time and cash to play with. No loss on the rings as in the end I have another use for them anyhow.

thay

synchro1 · « **Reply #92 on:** April 15, 2020, 10:39:42 PM »

Quote from: Thaelin on April 15, 2020, 10:22:25 PM

@syncro
That will have to hold until the mags get here. Just ordered them. I will be setting up a jig that will be able to allow me to do both. I am in the run to print up the mounting plates for the ring mags now. Going to use skate bearings on both setups so to aid in the turning on the shaft. In the end, if this goes, I will make the shaft rotate with the movable ring to be able to draw out movement. Not sure that this will have much torque tho. Will just have to wait and see.
For what it cost to set this up, well worth the time and cash to play with. No loss on the rings as in the end I have another use for them anyhow.

thay

@Thay,

One good 3rd party replication is all it will take to put this motor on prime time news!

magnetman12003 · « **Reply #93 on:** April 16, 2020, 01:07:34 AM »

This is the latest revision.
Cancel the rod magnet feeding into the center part of the 45 degree angle.
Instead place the rod magnets North Pole again the North Pole of the center block magnet.
Watch what happens. The 45 degree framework will move counterclockwise.

Airstriker · « **Reply #94 on:** April 16, 2020, 02:08:47 AM »

Quote from: Thaelin on April 15, 2020, 10:22:25 PM

@syncro
That will have to hold until the mags get here. Just ordered them. I will be setting up a jig that will be able to allow me to do both. I am in the run to print up the mounting plates for the ring mags now. Going to use skate bearings on both setups so to aid in the turning on the shaft. In the end, if this goes, I will make the shaft rotate with the movable ring to be able to draw out movement. Not sure that this will have much torque tho. Will just have to wait and see.
For what it cost to set this up, well worth the time and cash to play with. No loss on the rings as in the end I have another use for them anyhow.

thay

skate bearings is no go. You have to use non-magnetic materials, like brass for example. My main problem at the moment is to find brass/plastic ball bearings - if not successfull will use the non-ball bearings - brass/plastic ones. And last problem - the shaft - it also needs to be non magnetic - probably will also use brass.

Airstriker · « **Reply #95 on:** April 16, 2020, 02:12:06 AM »

Quote from: magnetman12003 on April 16, 2020, 01:07:34 AM

This is the latest revision.
Cancel the rod magnet feeding into the center part of the 45 degree angle.
Instead place the rod magnets North Pole again the North Pole of the center block magnet.
Watch what happens. The 45 degree framework will move counterclockwise.

If this setup also works, why not use a 3 ring magnets setup? The third one on top (with N pole pointing down) also being able to freely move up and down, just like the middle one. This way you get rid of the complicated rods setup.

And then... it would actually look like this:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20090152970.pdf

Check out figure 2.

@Tom Have you already checked if the second revision of your design indeed works the same/better than the first one?

synchro1 · « **Reply #96 on:** April 16, 2020, 08:22:50 AM »

@Airstriker,

Nice find! Here's the schematic: This must work to have merited a United States Patent! What's puzzling is; Why don't we see millions of these contraptions spinning around in display windows? Why has it taken 11 years for anyone to see this kind of perpetual motor in action? We can call this the "Lee Fan" after the Korean inventor. I think it's fair to view magnetman12003's motor as a modified "Lee Fan".

A quote from me; comment #49: "These bearings would permit a horizontal back to back spinner to be possible". A two sided fan compressed by two rings is best. Increasing the pressure must increase the acceleration. I designed a frictionless Halbach compression bearing for position #27 in the schematic: Lee's version is below and a ceramic at the bottom. Ceramic compression bearings are superior. It's okay to build models at home but any commercial use would owe royalties to the inventor!

synchro1 · « **Reply #97 on:** April 16, 2020, 11:00:40 AM »

Is magnetman12003 spinning just the CD alone, with the 45 degree magnets mounted on it, over the surface of the top ring? A "Fox Lee Fan"?

Magwood · « **Reply #98 on:** April 16, 2020, 11:01:48 AM »

Yes I wondered the same thing when I saw that, why aren't they out there? There's probably a few variations in that design, reminds me of a similar design I saw way back in Tech school, I think I was arguing with a friend of mine saying it would never work. If I do ever get one working I'll send him a video and apologise!

I also saw one with a metal ball rolling inside a ring with tracks to keep it on course a magnet constantly making it try to roll up hill causes the ring to turn, even if the ball slides a little it still seems to work. But yet we don't see them out there. Perhaps as we all get closer to making our own the men in black will come and get us? Oh well, life was getting boring, bring on the swat team! Or perhaps they can just get me through my 5G router these days. If you never hear from me again you will know why. We all need to keep in contact!

Airstriker · « **Reply #99 on:** April 16, 2020, 11:15:21 AM »

Quote from: synchro1 on April 16, 2020, 08:22:50 AM

@Airstriker,

Nice find! Here's the schematic: This must work to have merited a United States Patent! What's puzzling is; Why don't we see millions of these contraptions spinning around in display windows? Why has it taken 11 years for anyone to see this kind of perpetual motor in action? We can call this the "Lee Fan" after the Korean inventor. I think it's fair to view magnetman12003's motor as a modified "Lee Fan".

A quote from me; comment #49: "These bearings would permit a horizontal back to back spinner to be possible". A two sided fan compressed by two rings is best. Increasing the pressure must increase the acceleration. I designed a frictionless Halbach compression bearing for position #27 in the schematic: Lee's version is below and a ceramic at the bottom. Ceramic compression bearings are superior. It's okay to build models at home but any commercial use would owe royalties to the inventor!

Unfortunately you totally didn't get my point:
1. All I'm trying to do is understand why it works, or doesn't work. I'm not taking any credit from Tom just by showing something simillar.
2. Granted patent doesn't mean that it works. It only confirms that the design is unique to other patents and technically well described/written. You also don't patent an idea but a specific design.
3. IMHO that particular patented device doesn't work. I also think it has already been proven on that forum. And actually, if it would have worked, Tom's first video, with just the bottom ring magnet and plastic top ring having mounted the angled magnets, would have shown an already working device. As far as I understood it didn't? @Tom your clarification would be needed here.
4. The patented device is totally static in the vertical plane - there is no other movement but the rotation. The compression is statically adjusted. The fan or ring cannot move up and down. In Tom's device there is free movement in the vertical plane - the ring magnet with the angles can move up and down, and if his device really works this is where I would be searching for the reasons why it works. If that's really the case, the patented device has nothing to do with Tom's design and cannot be the subject of any claims.

synchro1 · « **Reply #100 on:** April 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM »

I wonder how a tilted ceramic block would act set between the rings like this;

Airstriker · « **Reply #101 on:** April 16, 2020, 01:42:54 PM »

Quote from: synchro1 on April 16, 2020, 12:49:17 PM

I wonder how a tilted ceramic block would act set between the rings like this;

Exactly. With two variants:
- vertically static upper and middle parts- like in the patent
- upper and middle part being able to move up and down freely - like in Tom's concept (in a way).

lota · « **Reply #102 on:** April 16, 2020, 07:17:27 PM »

Hello
here's my setup. Where is the position of the bar magnet?
Greeting
Lota

lota · « **Reply #103 on:** April 16, 2020, 07:19:44 PM »

This one.

Airstriker · « **Reply #104 on:** April 16, 2020, 11:44:45 PM »

Quote from: lota on April 16, 2020, 07:17:27 PM

Hello
here's my setup. Where is the position of the bar magnet?
Greeting
Lota

But the angled supports should be exactly above the the ring magnets. Your setup is completely nonsensical ;] You just made a floating table ;] Or is it still missing the ring magnets? Dunno what the black rings are.

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Author Topic: All Permanent Magnet Motor (Read 70210 times)

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