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Author Topic: All Permanent Magnet Motor  (Read 35534 times)

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #240 on: May 29, 2020, 05:07:28 PM »
You recommend Floor thanks yes, i recommend this  https://overunity.com/18363/getting-energy-from-asymmetry-of-the-magnetic-field-experiment/ . This is really about 45 degrees magnets, it has really measured gain of energy, and it is replicated with the results confirmed.

You, Floor and Norman, please don't talk to Stefan, i said he has a difficult time right now. But you still do.

I don't know what Magnetman is going to do, but i used to know him and it seems that he found something. One way to find it out is to start from the beginning, and my experiment with the 45 degree magnets is such beginning.

What is confusing in the Magnetman device, is that the 45 degree magnets are on the ring magnet. But i see it so that, this ring magnet is quite thin, and made of the ferrite material such that it does not much shield magnetic field. Thus the field of the 45 degree magnets goes through that ring magnet, to the bottom big ring magnet, and there is all the interaction with the 45 degree magnet. Maybe not quite accurate, maybe there is something else, but this is how i see it right now.


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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #240 on: May 29, 2020, 05:07:28 PM »

Offline Magluvin

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #241 on: May 31, 2020, 02:10:56 AM »


What is confusing in the Magnetman device, is that the 45 degree magnets are on the ring magnet. But i see it so that, this ring magnet is quite thin, and made of the ferrite material such that it does not much shield magnetic field. Thus the field of the 45 degree magnets goes through that ring magnet, to the bottom big ring magnet, and there is all the interaction with the 45 degree magnet. Maybe not quite accurate, maybe there is something else, but this is how i see it right now.
What would really blow your mind is, if it did work, the magnets above the speaker magnet could be mounted directly to the speaker magnet and it could all spin as one, as per the Faraday paradox criteria. ;)
Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #242 on: May 31, 2020, 02:33:22 AM »
But if you insist on a pat, you can do a little studying and draw up your own prov pat(after doing a pat search to see if it has already been pat) and it only cost you $75. If it is granted, you are covered for 1 year.
Mags
I have a book I used to guide me in making a prov pat and it was just as I said, $75 and wait for it to be granted. Was covered for a year. It was for remote controlled wheel lighting for cars and trucks. Custom wheels with removable center caps(some wheel designs work, some not), i put leds in the center cap with an rf receiver and a 9v batt and the leds shine outward on the spokes to the inner part of the outer rim. Had supposed investors but most wanted to be more than 50% ownership with no substantial investment to me on their part. Was a couple years of big disappointments.  So I shut them all down and shelved it.  About 4 years later a company made an advanced set that had rgb leds on the spokes in line with the spoke. Was rf controlled but you could produce pictures as the wheel spins down the road.  They were selling for$3000 back in the early 2000s.
So in the future if you plan on pat an idea that works, best to keep it to yourself and have a very good Non Disclosure Agreement if you plan on showing ANYONE. ;)
As per OU devices, I am about open source.  But lets say I had a device and still wanted to open source, if someone wanted a prebuilt device, I would sell one to them. Not crazy money but something that would help pay for needed equip and time to spend on future projects and or making improvements on the existing device. But would make it clear to the buyer that it will be open source and have an agreement made with them that my intentions of open sourcing hold firm.
Open source doesnt mean you cannot make some money with a device. If it were made public to all, then it would still need to be made in factories for the masses. But I dont think that an ou device could be such unless the idea of real ou is verified and proof shown to the population that OU actually is real. Otherwise if you go it alone and try to get rich, it would be as problematic similar to say Stan Meyers. 8) :o ;)
There just needs to be a very good way of getting the knowledge out there firstly so that you will not be alone with that knowledge and end up like poor Stan. :'(
Mags

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #242 on: May 31, 2020, 02:33:22 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #243 on: May 31, 2020, 05:27:00 AM »
Hi Mags,


That's a very good analogy of what is going on with his magmotor.
Hey Citfta

Probably even better one is say standing up a 20 ft ladder.  May need someone to hold down the base end even without wheels on the base. ;)

But sure, at 45 deg with one guy trying to erect the ladder would be the point of things being really tough.  Just lifting the top end 10 deg may have relatively no forward pressure at the base, and once you are above 45deg, say 80 deg, again, less forward pressure than at 45 deg.

Im Magmans setup, holding up the end of the bolt to 45 deg with the finger, the only way the wheel will turn is if the finger helps hold that 45deg as that end of the bolt would want to fall if the finger wasnt there.  If we had a stand that was rigid to the table and an arm out to the bolt to hold it up instead of the finger, the wheel wont turn causing the end of the bolt to slide off the stand arm unless the surface holding the top end of the bolt is at an angle. But if it were the head of the bolt on top and the bottom edge of the head were set on a  flat surface of the arm, then it will not turn as the top of the bolt now has a solid reference point to hang onto. Now if we were able to quickly let the stand arm holding up the head of the bolt, as said above, drop out of the way of holding the bolt at 45 deg, as the top end of the bolt drops, it will not just fall straight down, that end of the bolt will be moving laterally, thus giving a lateral push against the 45deg magnet.  Why not just glue the bolt to the magnet at 45deg? ???  If we try to hold the bolt at 45deg any other way, especially by hand, what is the effective difference compared to just gluing the bolt to the magnet? The key suspect is the hand of which must be pushing the rotor around. And if it only works by hand, then we have our answer as to what makes the rotor turn. Not saying Magman is trying to trick anyone, as I believe he feels it is the answer somehow and just doesnt realize what is actually happening. its hard to determine exact forces in different directions by hand. Ive had that many times in the past. But once you do realize the issue, the best thing is to admit the flaw and everyone will respect that.  ;)

Might be interesting to try a halbach magnet with this. halbachs can be many different configurations. If we avoid or say remove or redirect the top pole fields from view of the large speaker magnets field, maybe there could be some action.  Like if we look at the field from the side of the 45deg magnet in Magmans setup, we should see a lot of the field of the 45deg down facing magnet pole not making a path to the top side of itself by way of the lowest bottom edge, but rather mostly  finding a path upward and around the top edge, due to the repulsive force of the speaker magnet. Lol and maybe not as the speaker magnet may draw downward the attractive fields of the top side of the magnet and maybe the magnets fields may look unchanged by the speaker magnet. ??? So would that apply forward motion of the rotor? Probably not. But some of the halbach configurations may offer some other effects than I described that I believe exist in the Magmans setup.

Or maybe an upper and lower speaker magnet, and try opposing or attracting with each other?  Would be awesome if this simple idea, how many would perceive it working just understanding simple N n S magnetics, can work. But I would say dont stop there if this config does not work.  Im just coming off the top of my head with some of many other possible ways to think on and try. Learn from this one. Dont just learn that it doesnt work. Learn exactly why it doesnt work and try to solve that problem. ;) ;D

Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #244 on: June 03, 2020, 02:57:36 PM »
Just a cheap gyp!

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #244 on: June 03, 2020, 02:57:36 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #245 on: June 03, 2020, 05:36:11 PM »
magnets above the speaker magnet could be mounted directly to the speaker magnet and it could all spin as one, as per the Faraday paradox

No way.

I also don't think there is any fancy explanation to all these bolts, etc, of the 45 degree magnets. I think the magnetic field is just uneven, and it needs flexibility to smoothen it, as overcoming friction is so difficult to achieve that every small thing matters. But i think these are just technical details, it is in essence a 45 degree magnet moving in the field of the pole of the ring magnet. Nothing more fancy, but the overunity due to asymmetry of the field is an interesting physical phenomenon sure.


Offline kolbacict

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #246 on: June 03, 2020, 07:47:12 PM »
And if magnets at an angle of 45 are replaced by amazing banana magnets?

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #246 on: June 03, 2020, 07:47:12 PM »
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Offline Airstriker

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #247 on: June 22, 2020, 09:49:47 PM »

After thinking it over I plan to show the working motor only after I patent it.
I already gave out enough information about it if someone decides to use the SLING METHOD of making it. It’s not as simple as it looks to be as anyone attempting to replicate it will find out.
But you will see the light after you play with it a while.


Hi Tom,


Any success with the setup, or just another dead end? If success, are you already on the patenting route, or was laziness the king? :)

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #248 on: June 28, 2020, 01:21:59 AM »

Hi Tom,


Any success with the setup, or just another dead end? If success, are you already on the patenting route, or was laziness the king? :)


I did not patent it yet as I have found a better way to construct it without resorting to a sling arrangement as I described before. I am waiting on some more parts I ordered
  I will never give up on this idea.   A 45 degree inclined magnet and a single magnet bearing (by repelling) downwards with gravity on the 45 magnet is the way to go.  Construct such a motor using 4 of each magnets in a circular format and all will work out after a lot of thought on magnet placement.
Tom


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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #248 on: June 28, 2020, 01:21:59 AM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #249 on: June 28, 2020, 07:32:35 PM »
A 45 degree inclined magnet and a single magnet bearing (by repelling) downwards with gravity on the 45 magnet is the way to go.  Construct such a motor using 4 of each magnets in a circular format and all will work out after a lot of thought on magnet placement.

Interesting that it works, as you say it does.

Then, i think it may also be possible to make the 45 degree magnets stationary, and make only the ring magnet to rotate. The magnet bearings can also be used the same as in your motor. Kind of like you put your motor upside down. Then the 45 degree magnets don't move, are not on a floating ring magnet, and can be much heavier and stronger. That may add power.


Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #250 on: June 28, 2020, 09:41:29 PM »
Interesting that it works, as you say it does.

Then, i think it may also be possible to make the 45 degree magnets stationary, and make only the ring magnet to rotate. The magnet bearings can also be used the same as in your motor. Kind of like you put your motor upside down. Then the 45 degree magnets don't move, are not on a floating ring magnet, and can be much heavier and stronger. That may add power.


Four 45 degree magnets spaced equally in a circular fashion on a plain wood turntable would work
You don’t need anything else under that turntable.   Plastic risers on each 45 degree magnet must be used to mount four cylinder magnets in REPEL close to the 45 degree magnets magnetic field.
Those cylinder magnets must be inside vertically mounted brass or plastic tubes and free to move up and down.
The position of the magnets inside the tubes and exactly where they feed into the 45 degree magnetic field will have to be determined  by experimenting as I have done. Use the plastic risers to mount the cylinder magnets inside the brass tubes.
Tom.           

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #250 on: June 28, 2020, 09:41:29 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #251 on: June 28, 2020, 11:48:20 PM »
Tom, some think you failed, as they cannot replicate your device. I think you found something, why else do you talk about it, knowing you, there cannot be other reason.


Offline magnetman12003

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #252 on: June 29, 2020, 01:04:02 AM »
Tom, some think you failed, as they cannot replicate your device. I think you found something, why else do you talk about it, knowing you, there cannot be other reason.


You have to direct the cylinder magnet strait down “”VERTICALLY””  onto the very “” TOP “”of the 45 degree magnets magnetic field. ( In repel.) A little bit left or right will be the sweet spot that is needed to make this work. Nothing moves in the exact center.
Either the table will turn clockwise or counterclockwise depends on where you bond the brass tube that contains the cylinder magnet inside.
Tom

Offline ayeaye

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #253 on: June 30, 2020, 01:34:57 PM »
A little bit left or right will be the sweet spot that is needed to make this work. Nothing moves in the exact center.

Yes, this says at least one thing. Whoever wants to replicate that device, make it well adjustable. I recommend to do measurements instead, as doing it with the whole thing is much too difficult. But if you want to replicate all thing.

Like, 3D printing it and then expecting it to work, a very advanced way to do it, but in that way it will most certainly not work. 3D printing it, seeing nothing happen, and then deciding that the all thing doesn't work. You have not tried to adjust anything, and you have not measured anything, to know anything about what is going on there. Whatever, whether it can work or not, but this is certainly not a way to decide.

I will not try to replicate it, my way is doing experiments and measurements with 45 degree magnets, as this is i think where it should be started.

Yet anyway, making it upside down may increase power a lot. I understand you say it doesn't work that way, as these magnets in the tubes, etc, this is a kind of self-adjustment, and the whole thing is delicate and can work only in one way. Sure, yet there may be ways to do it.


Offline skywatcher

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Re: All Permanent Magnet Motor
« Reply #254 on: July 02, 2020, 10:47:19 PM »
As long as there is no working device in the first place, there is nothing to replicate.

 

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