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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: iadcw on December 27, 2006, 06:35:44 PM
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I have been working on the idea of a PM since I first played with magnets. I have tried many ideas, from moving toy train cars on a track to gearing several small magnets together. Even made a really large machine with a 2' diameter aluminum disk and used a 200 lb pull rare earth to try and power it in a kind of strange configuration.
ANYWAY - I read that PM is possible under current laws of thermodynamics with certain conditions present. It goes something like this. ' It is possible with two systems working the exact opposite of each other'
I cant remember where I read this and would love to hear from someone who has read the same thing.
ALSO - I have a design that uses one magnet. I've proven the concept and have constucted a model (not all parts complete).
Further posting will be done with pics and drawings. ( Ive worked on this design for the last 5yrs on and off, so please be patient). Its so simple and completely different from anything I've seen.
Ive solved the problems of sticking points but making the parts is really tough. I have the equipment, mill, lathe, etc. and its still really tough to form the parts needed. lots of trial and error.
if anyone can tell me if they have read what I did about PM being possile under current laws of thermodynamics, it would be greatly appreciated.
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Look forward to your pictures and more info.
Regards
Sean.
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@iadcw I have read several different all encompassing theories on the necessary conditions for a working PM motor. One of which was to use the magnet's natural inclination to balance themselves to get past the sticky spot.
I am very interested in seeing more of your single magnet setup since the simpler the machine, the better I believe. I am also working with several design ideas using different single ring configurations. I also have acess to a 2 axis CNC machine if you ever need rapid prototyping done.. I can design the files for you based on your specifications and feed them to the machine for very accurate cutting.
Keep us up to date with your progress and let us know if you need anything.
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Hi iadcw,
I have not come across the idea you described as "It is possible with two systems working the exact opposite of each other." but remember a Belgian patent a forum member here ,Lanca IV, mentioned in this forum. This patent works exactly as your quotation says: an electric (DC) motor is fed from a battery, the motor's shaft is hooked to a (DC) generator and the generator's output is connected directly to the same battery. See patent BE438189 at http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=BE438189&F=0 and click on the Mosaics icon to see a Figure. (This is the only info on the patent's 'description', no other working detail is given.)
Looking forward to your further postings.
Regards
Gyula
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Hi Gyula,
Have a look at this post from myself:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,919.msg19154.html#msg19154
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Hello gyula,
did you not read the "Original document" information ?
The only "important" info-which is not delivered : RPM ?
Hello iadcw,
www.rexresearch.com/monus/monus.htm as link.
Sincerely
de Lan?a
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Thanks for all the replys.
Konduct - Thanks for the offer of help. I will need to talk to you Im sure.
lancaIV - Thanks for the link but chapter 6 will need updating. There is another way to get past the 'sticky spot'.
I dont mean to be so vague right now and I cant wait to show and tell somebody what I have. Just a little longer. I need to make a few preperations to protect my work first.
I do have another question. Has anyone seen a PMM work. I think when I finish and this thing is rotating on its on, no matter how slow or fast or how much power it has. Thats the end of the search, right. Its kinda like invention of the first light bulb. It didn't light a sports arena, but improvements to the design, over the years and now it lights a sports arena
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I don't think that there is currently undeniable proof of a working PMM. I'm sure that many innovations may be made to your design to improve it. The basic principles are the important part.
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When I wrote my first post on a "very simple magnet motor", my wife and I were on a short trip to get away from it all. I had time to think about my idea and decided to offer it on this forum.
I have protected the idea by writing a theory of operation and taking some pictures and sending them certified mail to a lawyer friend of mine. He still has the letters I sent, unopened, in his office.
I decided that I have done enuf to protect my idea.
I got in touch with Konduct thru this forum and we had a very good conversation. He did some drawings in short order and emailed them to me. They are pretty good and show the basic idea very well. I will ask if he can post these drawings.
ANYWAY - here is the idea.
The idea is very simple and has evolved thru several models.
Magnets attract metal. When you talk to a magnet company about magnets, they mention the power of the magnets in LBS of Pull. This LBS of Pull is always said to be against a 1/4" or thicker piece of metal.
The magnets have a lot less pull against thinner metal. This can be proven by holding a 1/4" piece of metal over a magnet and then holding a knife edge over a magnet. You can feel the difference in the amout of pull. If you touch a thick piece of steel to a strong magnet, you have to work to pull it free of the magnet. If you touch a very thin piece of metal to the same magnet, you can pull it free with very little effort. Also, thin metal attracts less at a distance than thick metal. This is the basis for my idea and design.
My model consists of a center shaft with bearings on each end. 2 pieces of metal are attached to this center shaft. each piece is the same but a mirror image of the other. They are a 1/2 circle, cut so that one end is thick(1/4") and the other end is knife edge thin, and attached to the shaft at an angle to form a Ramp so that a magnet fixed in place will attract the metal and cause it to turn. When fixing this metal ramp to the center shaft, the thick part of the ramp will be farthest from the magnet and the magnetic attraction will cause it to turn to the thinnest part.
This completes a 180 degree turn of the shaft.
At this point, the other 1/2 Circle piece of metal is fixed on the shaft in the same manner as the first on the opposite side of the shaft from the first. 1 ramp will be positioned to be on top of the magnet and the other ramp will be positioned so that it is attracted from the opposite side of the magnet.
At this point in time, the first 1/2 circle ramp has been attracted by the magnet (has turned the shaft)so that the thin part of the ramp is closest to the magnet and the 2nd 1/2 circle ramp is now positioned so that the 1/4" or thickest part of this second ramp is on the opposite side of the magnet and a little farther away than the thin part of the first ramp.
Since the magnet is attracted to the metal and to the thicker part of the ramp, It will turn the shaft from the thick part of the ramp to thin part of the ramp and "jump the gap" so to speak to the thicker part of the second ramp. It will follow this ramp thru magnetic attraction from thick to thin and "jump the gap" again to get to the thicker metal and then follow that ramp, etc. etc. etc.
I had a model that turned 360 degrees(it jumped 1 gap) and followed the second ramp around but did not jump the second gap.
As I mentioned in my first post, the parts are hard to make. I tried to improve on the 1/2 circle ramps( with heat and a hammer to form the ramp ) and I ruined them (imagine that).
The models were made about five yrs ago. If youve worked on a project like this, you know how easy it is to get off on tangents and try other things(improvements, ha ha). I have thought about how the model I made then followed the ramp and jumped that first gap. It still amazes me to think of seeing it work.
Since that time - I haved moved and am now ready to work on this again as I have the time and the idea is constantly popping into my head. I have come up with a design to make all pieces adjustable so that I should be able to adjust things as needed.
I tried many different models using 2 or more magnets, shields, magnets with gravity wheels, and never had what I would call success. This idea and model is the only thing I've tried that shows real promise.
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Iadcw
Sounds very interesting and could be fun knocking up a test Rig.
Should be easy enough to take the drawings and convert them to Gcode for milling out.
Look forward to seeing the drawings as will give a better understanding.
Regards
Sean.
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Sounds like a very good idea. The only thing that I wonder is will the metal pieces get magnetized over time?
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Sounds like a very good idea. The only thing that I wonder is will the metal pieces get magnetized over time?
Hi,
There are ferromagnetic materials that do not readily get permanently magnetized. These are mainly certain alloys of iron with Si and other materials. Such are conventional mains transformer laminates for instance, they could be used here for tinkering by cutting them to different lengths and bundle them together (and with
careful work they can be shaped into curved/bended form too.
Of course there are other metal alloys like the cores used for electromagnets where the permanent magnetism is also unwelcome over time. But these cores are much harder to work with here for getting the curved / diminishing thickness shapes.
Gyula
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Interesting idea to use small layers and stick them together to increase attraction.
I thought closing the loop on a horseshoe magnet also gives extra attraction. (not sure)
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MrMag
In my model the shaft and magnet holder are aluminum so no magnetism. The 1/2 round plates have not become magnetised so that its very noticable.
Also,it doesnt matter if the formed metal plates were magnetized. If you could make magnets shaped as needed, the plates would be magnetic and my thinking is it would work better.
Something I havent done yet is use a shield on the magnet. Since I am working with a magnet to attract metal, I dont have the problem of the shield attracting to the magnet you are trying to shield the magnetic field from. ( did that make sense).
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Another thing to keep in mind.
I am working with magnet force reacting to metal. Far different than working with magnet against magnet.
the variables are, size of the magnet, angle of the ramp and and distance from the magnet. These are the important things. The idea is to use the pull of magnet to metal to finesse past the gap from thin to thick. I've done this(jumped the gap) wih a very small model. It actually seemed to speed up a little when it jumped the gap and started following the second ramp. My problem was both metal ramps were not the same and setting an equal distance on both sides was not possible since both ramps were different.
you would have to be lucky to do a CNC design and get it right the first time.
I have come up with a design were variables (as I see them) are adjustable. Im making parts now and will post the results.
I do have a question - Has anyone seen a design like this.
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I have been working on a pmm for a long time and have tried many different models. I have also searched the web for anything concerning PMM and have read everything I could find concerning PMM. Needless to say I think it is possible.
In my search I have yet to find anything similar to this. Every attempt or model or theory I've seen, has been using one magnet to react with another magnet ( be it Electro or Permanent or a combo of the 2).
I would appreciate any info or 'links' to anything similar in design or theory to see if I can learn from another idea in this same vien of thought.
Thanks for any help
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Hi,
Paul Sprain claims 6W output for 3.1W input power... see link:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor
rgds
Gyula
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gyulasun
thanks for the reply but this is not the same as he uses only magnets and has an external power supply.
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Links to graphics for iadcw's motor design.
< http://www.kaseybentley.com/mkingtop.jpg >
< http://www.kaseybentley.com/mkingfront.jpg >
< http://www.kaseybentley.com/mkingleft.jpg >
The blue cylinder sticks out an additional ?? from the magnet?s surface and the thinner red cylinder sticks out ? ? from the magnets surface. (Equally on both sides.) This gives an easy to visualize indicator of the distance between rotor and magnet at all times, particularly in the video below.
< http://www.kaseybentley.com/mkingmockup.mov >
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Konduct
Thanks for posting those drawings. A good representation of how it looks and how it should work.
I've made several parts and hope to make the rest tommorrow. Will post results when I have some.
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iacdw,
I wish you well with your work, as you've selected one of the most difficult projects among free energy researchers. I came up with the idea in 1973 and worked very hard until late 1979 when I discovered that the U.S., Military had already developed permanent magnet motors using highly classified materials called "High Energy Magnetic Monopole Materials". I was working under contract for them at the time and found the information in the common area of the library where a temp worker had mistakenly filed it. It was classified "Above Top Secret" and after presenting my designs and the documented information to the Energy Commision I was met the following morning be armed military police who proceeded to tell me what could be expected to happen to me and my entire family if I were to ever mention anything about it. Dipole designs are indeed possible but incredibly difficult to come up with anything that works for more than a day or two without the magnets breaking down. Howard Johnson's motors really did work, and were presented on NOVA several times before they were told to pull the episode and get rid of it. Check the spring 1980 issue of Science and Mechanics Illustrated if you can even find it anymore. Good luck and God bless you brother.
Best Regards,
Jim
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Jim, could you post a simple example of how a magnetic monopole would be used to create energy, a simple to understand schematic or design? Thanks
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Hi Phil_M2,
I will try to sketch something very basic as soon as I have some time to do that however, please understand that I have never had the opertunity to actually build a motor with the monopole materials as the U.S., Fed and/or Military immediately got involved after I had placed an order at the MN Dept., of Energy in the summer of 1979 and raised the price of each individual magnet to "$17,000 USD each. They checked us all out and knew we didn't have that kind of money so that was that.
Therefore any designs remain strictly theoretical until they release these materials to the public. I'm not even supposed to have said a word to anybody but it's a dirty job and someone's got to do it........lol. I think people have the right to know much more than that but I don't want to press my luck too far, ya know?
Cheers,
Jim
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BushWacker
You said this was one of the most difficult projects. Does that mean the design is difficult?
I, too, would like to see your drawing to see if I'm close. Or maybe I dont want to know how close !
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iadcw,
Remember that Phil_M2 and I are talking about monopole designs and that he is asking me to sketch a simple mono-pole configuration/design to give him an idea of how this may differ from a dipole design. I have vowed to myself never to make things so easy for anyone to simply claim all of my work and idea's again so I haven't kept anything on my PC or on paper since the last time that my house was broken into and all of my intellectual properties were stolen.
People tend to look down on you when you try to tell them that many of the allegedly personal inventions of others were stolen from you years ago, and I can't blame them, I would have my doubts also. That is why it is useless to try and say anything when someone else suddenly comes forward with something that they claim to have invented themselves. In the case of my permenant magnet motor designs I was not so upset because I was threatened to keep my mouth shut decades ago and so anyone who might come forward showing one of the designs to work was actually doing me and everyone else a huge favor.
Dipole designs however are a thing to perfect because it is so hard to overcome the problems that 2 pole magnets present, and most often you have to deal with all the various changes in field density, field alignment, deterioration of magnetic orientation and gauss levels, etc.., etc.., etc.. . Most people think of a simple dipole magnet as being strictly linear in its field geometry but it is in fact highly non-linear. Many years ago I had thought that if monopolar materials could just be developed that it might make designing a permenant magnet motor/generator a much easier task. Then when I found what was to me the Holy Grail at the time, eg; (high energy magnetic monopole materials) I was so excited that I went straight to the DoE in the state where I lived at the time IE: (Minnesota). Everyone theorized that it had to work including the commissioner himself so he assisted me in ordering the monopole materials right then and there. Powerful people within the U.S., Federal/Military Government who don't want anyone to know that these materials already exist told the manufacturer to simply raise their original price quote from about $50 per magnet to $17,000.00 per magnet knowing that there was absolutely no way that I could afford the cost.
The commissioner was replaced by a woman the very next day after our meeting and we never saw one another or talked to one another again. I was never able to obtain the monopole materials so I was never able to build the monopole motor/generator. I had a helecopter no more than 100 feet above my house every day at 12:00pm sharp for the next several months, my phone and every family member's phone, and many of my friends phones were tapped and they made it very clear and obvious that they were keeping their eye's on me and everyone close to me.
I can only tell you that 6 months later Howard Johnson came forward with several designs that perfectly matched designs that I had sketched out years before and which had been stolen from my home. Howard had apparently worked for the U.S., Military for most of his life and it is my belief that they asked him to do this to try and buffer the situation that had presented itself when I provided the DoD documents to the Energy Commissioner in the previous months. I can't prove that this is in fact the case, and it seems that there seems to be some kind of universal consciousness that allows many people at the same time to have the same or similar thoughts. Either this is true or most of the idea's and/or inventions that I have come up with throughout my life have come into being as either pure coincidence or because they were handed to the person claiming it as their own.
As far as a design for a monopole magnet motor/generator goes, I think that just about anyone could figure one out once they understand the differences between dipole materials and monopole materials. For example: Think of a sawtooth gear with one edge/side of each tooth being a high energy magnetic monopole, then take another much larger sawtooth gear with its teeth/gears located on the inner edge of the circular rim/hoop and place the smaller gear inside the larger gear. The teeth of the gears should not be touching each other and the high energy monopoles would be pushing away from each other with tremendous force if both the inner and outer gear shaped assemblies were assembled using like monopoles. They need not be like monopoles however as opposite charged materials would do essentially the same task except that the gear assemblies would turn towards one another instead of away from each other.
This is one of the simplest ways for me to describe a very basic monopole design however there are many designs that should be possible. Far more in fact than the number of working models that we are limited to with the conventional dipole materials currently available to the general populous.
There are even simpler designs than this according to theoretical assumptions being made by physicists out there in the mainstream scientific community. I can only assume that some will be correct in their theories while others to this day still do not understand the concept of real monopole materials and would be wrong.
I will try to find the time to sketch out a few designs for you and also try to locate more information from conventional scientists and/or physicists who do understand the nature of high energy monopole materials. Unfortunately those scientists who know all there is to know about them and may have even helped to develop the actual materials are not allowed to talk or none of us would have to be here in this forum today.
Best Regards,
Jim
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This is a nice idea, however I don't think it will work.
I believe the rotor would default to the position depicted here:
(http://www.kaseybentley.com/mkingtop.jpg)
Obviously the magnet prefers the thicker metal, so it will take work to spin the rotor to a thinner part; the same or more work than generated by the initial attraction of the thicker part. Basically, all work done by the magnet has to be undone.
But don't let me discourage you ;)
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Hi Iadcw and Konduct,
Kindly inquire on any progress you may have made since then on the interesting simple magnet motor you both showed drawings and a video animation.
Thanks
Gyula