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Author Topic: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment  (Read 18527 times)

Offline bistander

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2020, 04:51:13 AM »
What I mean is, Force is only Force.
Force over distance is work.
This time it takes for that amount of work to be done
derives the energy.


Force/distance/http://www.theochem.ru.nl/~pwormer/Knowino/knowino.org/wiki/Joule_(unit).html
Having only force, you have no energy.
Having force over a distance (and I promise you, wether or not
your scales show you, the force is not constant over that distance)
gives you work.
But you don’t know how much energy it took to do that work unless
you know how much time the force was applied over that distance.
....

Hi sm0ky2,

From your linked article:
"One joule equals the work done (or energy expended) by a force of one newton (N) acting over a distance of one meter (m)."

Work = Energy = Force * distance. It is time independent. The same force applied over the same distance is the same work which is the same energy whether it takes one second or one hour or one year to occur.

Regards,

bi

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Offline telecom

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2020, 05:08:32 AM »

The force has to be applied for a distance over a time.
This is energy.




Hi, this is actually power.
Energy=work is force x distance

Offline kolbacict

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2020, 12:49:51 PM »
Is it possible to hang an object from a device of permanent magnets alone so that it does not touch anything? Like in the video about magnetic levitation, where the aluminum ring hung. The video was here recently in the old 1970s. But there the professor used electromagnet Is it possible without electricity?
I have not succeeded yet.

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2020, 12:49:51 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2020, 05:12:50 PM »
Is it possible to hang an object from a device of permanent magnets alone so that it does not touch anything?

Yes, see the photo below, of what i made, the end of the pencil stands in the air. It is a kind of fragile though, not sure that it's good for a magnet motor.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2020, 05:29:17 PM »
Hi, this is actually power.
Energy=work is force x distance


You are correct, what I was saying was not meant to be taken as
an equation or formula, but merely to point to the factors involved.


To be more clear and concise::


A Newton is a time derived quantity. Kilogrammeters per second per second.
Multiplying a Newton x Distance gives:
Kg(m^2)/s/s = joules

Without knowing the time in this experiment,
the “force scales” cannot derive a Newton.
This is why gravity is used in most uses of these things
that require an actual energy quotient.


Yes you can measure a force, but only as a timeless quantity.
You have to measure the time and make a calculation.



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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2020, 05:29:17 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2020, 06:12:21 PM »
A Newton is a time derived quantity. Kilogrammeters per second per second.

The  m / s ^ 2  is an acceleration, not time. Newton is a force necessary to accelerate 1 kg at  1 m / s ^ 2 . kg is a unit of mass, but in the Earth's gravity, a force to 1 kg is approximately 9.8 N, because of the Earth's gravity acceleration  9.8 m / s ^2 , 1 N is thus  1 kg / 9.8 .

And this is just because of how Newton is defined, the Earth's gravity causes an object to accelerate at  9.8 m / s ^ 2 , when there are no obstacles to it's movement. But Earth's gravity can also cause other effects, it causes force, that depends on the mass of the object.

The acceleration in the definition of Newton is only because a force causes acceleration, it is defined in that way, a force can also cause other effects.

A Newton meter, such as spring scales, has nothing to do with time. It measures force, and when used to measure weight, it measures force caused by Earth's gravity.


Offline kolbacict

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 06:12:37 PM »
And the other end rests on the plate?

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 06:12:37 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 06:25:47 PM »
And the other end rests on the plate?

It did rest on my finger. I just didn't care to make another end, but i think it's possible. These four magnets form like a cavity in which the magnet can rest, it contains the magnet in all directions.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 07:42:09 PM »
Sm0ky2,

But i think i understand what do you mean.

1 Newton indeed gives an object a power to accelerate  1 m / s ^ 2 . Thus

1 N = 1 N * 1 m / 1 s  =>  m / s = 1  =>  m = s . Meter equals to second, weird yes?

Newton should be defined as power necessary to accelerate 1 kg at  1 m / s ^ 2 ? In spite of that, force remains what it is, and spring scales measure force. All the measurements and calculations are correct, the question is only what force means.

Power is necessary for acceleration, thus, when we can show that an object accelerates, that is it's speed increases, when going through all the field, then that's all we need to show. This means a gain of energy, no need then to measure any forces and distances moved, to show a gain of energy.

This i think may be one thing how they hide the fact that field, such as a gravitational field, really provides power, that gives energy to the objects. It is that the gravitational field is spherical, and no more power is given when an object falls to the ground. A field can give continuous power when it's not symmetric. They may try to hide that field provides power, and that we have to spend energy, to get the same amount of energy back, is really due to symmetry of the gravitational field, and not because of conservation of energy, as they want to say.


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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 07:42:09 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2020, 09:20:01 PM »
Start from measurements. There is likely no other way to make a continuously working device, if ever possible. Better don't try to make it and hope that it succeeds, the possibility for that is like a possibility to find a needle in the haystack. A rather senseless activity.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 10:18:50 PM »
Sm0ky2,

This is the way force is defined, and it is indeed such power. That when we move by 1 meter, with the force 1 Newton in 1 second, then the acceleration is 1 m / s ^ 2. There are thus two ways to measure energy, by meters moved with a certain force, or by how much the speed increased. Because these two ways are equivalent, one can only measure distance and force to calculate energy, and doesn't have to measure time or speed. Because by definition it is known, how much the speed of the object increases, when moving that distance, with that force.

PS I asked for replication of my experiment. My experiment is repeatable by very simple means, almost anyone can do that, all information for repeating the experiment is provided. And my experiment includes measurements that show everything that happens there. In these conditions a hoaxter doesn't ask for replication. Please see the difference.


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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 10:18:50 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2020, 03:36:18 AM »
The  m / s ^ 2  is an acceleration, not time. Newton is a force necessary to accelerate 1 kg at  1 m / s ^ 2 . kg is a unit of mass, but in the Earth's gravity, a force to 1 kg is approximately 9.8 N, because of the Earth's gravity acceleration  9.8 m / s ^2 , 1 N is thus  1 kg / 9.8 .



You’re halfway there. (still keep dropping your per sec per sec)
You don’t have a 1KG weight on a 9.8 meter long scale
What the scale does is provide an equivalent force via the spring.
By a division of 10 at increments of the scale.
If calibrate the scale as in the video
Then hang a 0.1kg weight it should hit close to 1N
And this would give you an accurate measurement at that location.
(you can observe gravitational variance with your scale)

Lain on it’s side, you are not measuring an acceleration force.
You are measuring a timeless force at a location within the magnetic  field.


If you plot this over distance and time you can derive the energy involved.


What is the difference between this force and say have the spring measure
a rubber band?
A measurement at an instant is just that. A measurement over time or at
time-based increments, gives you acceleration.


How much “energy” does it take to levitate a magnet above another magnet?
if it’s not moving, there’s no energy at all. just a force countering the weight.
I can only say the same thing in so many ways....
and I do so hoping at least one will hit the target.
Like the reason we don’t get Newton’s heavier every second we sit on the ground.
Because we are not accelerating. There is a static force on us. A timeless quantity
we call weight. This is what you are measuring.




Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2020, 04:01:48 AM »
Lain on it’s side, you are not measuring an acceleration force.

Yes i do, all that is necessary to measure energy, is force and distance. Because it is known how much it accelerates, by moving that distance with that force.

Ok, i can show you.  force = mass * acceleration   =>  acceleration = force / mass , such as mass of the moving magnet.  acceleration = distance / time ^ 2  =>  time = sqrt (distance / acceleration) , speed = acceleration * time , thus when we know force, distance and mass, we can calculate the increase of speed.


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2020, 09:19:26 AM »
Divide it, take the root, take the derivation (time?)
Integrate it back again.
Time does not go away. Because it was the foundation.


Sure you can calculate a force over distance.
But without time you have no energy quotient.
Without time there is no Velocity, no Acceleration.
Moving something a distance is not an energy.
It is how long it takes you to move it.
Period.


1kg*meter for instance
you move yours in one second


I’ll move mine in half a second


Which one is more energy?




Offline ayeaye

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Re: Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2020, 11:58:01 AM »
1kg*meter for instance
you move yours in one second


I’ll move mine in half a second


Which one is more energy?

These are the same energy. High school physics.


 

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