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Solid States Devices => Wireless Energy Transfer => Topic started by: ramset on September 18, 2019, 03:15:01 PM

Title: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: ramset on September 18, 2019, 03:15:01 PM

 Under construction
in a few days
Forum Moderator and member GotoLuc
Will be hosting a build here .

This  is the place for :
- builders
-experimenters
-practitioners
-theoretic contribution  in area of   energy  transfer.
- people interested to discuss  this particular topic
Will try to focus our attention and  posts submitted in relation to that specific topic here.
anything related to
-Tesla Coil
- Viziv
-interface  and its variations such as:
a. dielectric  and dielectric with different dielectric properties
b. dielectric ( e.g air)   and conductive medium ( e.g copper  or aluminum)
    https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
c  dielectric  (e.g air) and  lossy conductive  medium ( e.g earth)
    https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=306 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=306)
- HV AC power supply  that can be  used to power Tesla coil
- Generators and HV generators  that can be  used to power Tesla coil
- RF Amplifiers  that can be  used to power Tesla coil
- impedance matching  devices and tuners.
- Top Capacitors   and its futures/ and practical designs.
- energy transfer  from given  point A  to any  point B using interface
-  Near field and Far Field practical and theoretical
- modes of electromagnetic wave such as TM  mode
-Goubau line  (e.g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line))
-Schumann  Waveguide  and its resonances
- Waveguides and its futures
- Ionosphere /earth cavity and its properties if related
-related ground  and grounding techniques  e.g  counterpoise
 
To  miejsce jest  dla  tych  ktorzy zajmuja  sie tym konkretnym tematem  wyszczegolnionym  powyzej. 
это место только для людей, которые хотят говорить и экспериментировать в этой конкретной теме
характер этой темы объяснен выше
Dieser Ort ist für Menschen, die ihre praktische und theoretische Erfahrung in diesem ganz spezifischen Bereich einbringen möchten.

Respectfully
Chet K
Legal note: High  Voltage is dangerous .
It is   your decision of what you do  and nobody else.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 18, 2019, 08:01:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMJr-oUYYDA
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: ramset on September 19, 2019, 02:30:01 AM
r2fpl Sir thank you for the very appropriate video ,here in this thread there will be a build with point to pointTesla energy transfer experiments as well as Viziv type investigations and hopefully experiments with direct energy Harvesting from the Schumann wave guide.
Thank you for the contribution
respectfully Chet K

Dziekuje dobry material
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 19, 2019, 08:52:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlirYRhYvfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDh5CcaghJU

more on the channell: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1c384Gyck10hhAifO5hspw
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on September 20, 2019, 02:33:07 AM
Hello
Question to tesla coil builders:
Is capacitance of grounded tesla coil TOP LOAD (sphere or toroid) dependent  on it  elevation regards to earth or not?
Thx
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 20, 2019, 02:58:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlHoU54Pyv0
thank you   r2fpl
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 20, 2019, 04:10:17 AM
Is capacitance of grounded tesla coil TOP LOAD (sphere or toroid) dependent  on it  elevation regards to earth or not?
Thx
Yes it is .
That capacitor size  must be as here:
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950)
The Top Capacitor is one plate and earth is another.
So  increasing distance between two plates makes its capacitance smaller.
Please fallow  the instruction that : D= or > 4d
It is good to have d as  large as possible No sharp edges and mushroom shape is the best but  not critical.
If  you  chose mushroom shape than lower  edge of the mushroom must be bend inward to prevent  discharges.
Note#1: no sharp corners  !!!
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 21, 2019, 12:23:40 AM
Hello Wesley, Chet and all

The below 3 video demos are my first attempts to study power transmission.
As a first start I used what I already had on hand which is a self tuning (resonance) circuit that was built by Tinsel Koala.
I had made a set of matching Primary and Secondary coils tuned to resonate at 1.1Mhz
I used a single wire as a conductive medium (instead of earth ground or aluminum foil) connected between the lower wire of each Tesla secondaries coils.
The primary on the transmitter is connected to the self tune circuit and on the receiver is connected to a 18W bulb as load.

It is important to know and understand that this 15 feet single wire power transfer demonstration is not radio transmission.
Contrary to standard theory which states current needs a return path, in this demonstration power transfer is achieved by a single wire with no return path.
Part 2 video is an attempt to prove the return path is not achieved by air transmission by enclosing the receiver (under load) in a grounded Faraday cage.
Part 3 video demonstrates a maximized power transfer (compared to part 1) and also includes an approximate bulb power (in watts) comparison.

Part 1: https://youtu.be/kwfwkAtXUKY (https://youtu.be/kwfwkAtXUKY)

Part 2: https://youtu.be/DKxx42Y9nqo (https://youtu.be/DKxx42Y9nqo)

Part 3: https://youtu.be/slErtdgTdbs (https://youtu.be/slErtdgTdbs)

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 21, 2019, 01:06:57 AM
Thank you gotoluc
Great example of  Goubau line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line)
https://accelconf.web.cern.ch/accelconf/BIW2012/papers/tupg007.pdf (https://accelconf.web.cern.ch/accelconf/BIW2012/papers/tupg007.pdf)
https://tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23311916.2018.1507083 (https://tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23311916.2018.1507083)

https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09205071.2017.1317036?journalCode=tewa20 (https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09205071.2017.1317036?journalCode=tewa20)
in this last link it is considered  TE mode  instead  of TM mode.
We want  TM mode.!! in out surface wave   for our power transmission.
TM mode:   Transverse magnetic waves, also called E waves are characterized by the fact that the magnetic vector (H vector) is always perpendicular to the direction of propagation.

Note#1: you  can also create  two cones structure with    wire as explained in links
it will work also with magnet wire as that wire is coated with dielectric paint.
Note#2: some of  you may have problem to identify it as Goubau  due to slightly different configuration.
but we  definitely   deal with surface wave in dielectric!!!/ metal interface.
don't be surprised   if it works also with non coated   copper  wire. Yes it will but the mechanism is exactly  the same  it will be copper/ air interface.
But if  we talking about effectiveness  of energy  transmission  than use Teflon coated wire 
Note#3:  it  is not much difference  if you use  1ft aluminum foil or you use wire.
 

Top  Capacitor:
should look like  mushroom  or  torus  but  shape  is  not  critical and not so much important ( it is just the most easy  but   still   effective  form  of  it )
Top Capacitor when is large  it has  bigger capacitance and  adjustment  can/must be  done  by changing the  size of it or elevation   .
However elevation is  that what gives us polarization and right   Brewster  Angle
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539151/#msg539151 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539151/#msg539151)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: poynt99 on September 21, 2019, 01:37:49 AM
Luc,
What I see with your experiment is that the apparently-invisible circuit is completed via the path from the top capacitance of the TC's to earth ground.
What leads you to believe that it is a longitudinal wave powering the lamp?
A Faraday shield around the RX coil won't shield the effect because essentially the earth is being used as the return conductor.
The shield may even improve the effect as it could increase the conductivity from the RX top capacitor to earth ground.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 21, 2019, 01:45:50 AM
At best you can be ready to  make power transmission over the earth   as soon as tomorrow,
At worst you will  never do it
It is easy but   tricky
You really need to understand the 4 of my posts here:
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539098/#msg539098 (https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539098/#msg539098)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 21, 2019, 02:33:05 AM
What I see with your experiment is that the apparently-invisible circuit is completed via the path from the top capacitance of the TC's to earth ground.

Are you saying the transmitter top Pico Farad value capacitance is able to work its way down through 4" of cement, then countless feet of  non conducting sand to get down to current conducting ground to travel 15 feet then make its way back up through the same non current conductive medium up to the receivers top capacitance and can deliver 6 watts all without impeding the transmitter?

What leads you to believe that it is a longitudinal wave powering the lamp?

Because that's what experimenters say when they can't explain it ;D

A Faraday shield around the RX coil won't shield the effect because essentially the earth is being used as the return conductor.

How high off the cement (ground) would the transmitter and receiver need to be to eliminate your ground thought possibility?

The shield may even improve the effect as it could increase the conductivity from the RX top capacitor to earth ground.

BTW, the grounding of the Faraday cage was added by the 87yo Lockheed Martin Physicist who visits the lab each morning. Yesterday he was convinced the current path was through the air (radio) and why I then built the cage. Then this morning when he saw the cage didn't change anything he was thinking the cage acted as an antenna to the top capacitor and thought once the cage was grounded its antenna effect would be neutralized. Once again to his surprise it changed nothing. He left still believing there's a current path somehow but could not identify it.
I'm quite sure he considered all ground path possibilities but could not consider it with the transmitter being battery operated.
So I'm sorry to say but your ground path possibility is not very convincing to me. However, I'm ready to consider a good explanation of how that could possibly work.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 21, 2019, 02:42:49 AM
Compare  it to this.
Here you have shielded Faraday  cage too.
There is no electromagnetic longitudinal wave and there never was electromagnetic longitudinal  wave
It simply can not exist.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 21, 2019, 10:47:33 AM
Hi Luc

I am glad you came back.
I can say that I did such an experiment and I confirm that energy goes through one wire. However, the bulb needs mass.
The receiving Tesla coil makes a virtual mass if I can say that. Try to lift the connecting cable or isolate it from the ground. PVC is a diaelectrician who can collect loads with change. I don't know if it's good, but check what happens after lifting the cable.

ps. I think Jeremy told you.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: DavidWolff on September 21, 2019, 11:40:27 AM
Compare  it to this.
Here you have shielded Faraday  cage too.
There is no electromagnetic longitudinal wave and there never was electromagnetic longitudinal  wave
It simply can not exist.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
Wesley
Realy? not with an ordinary Tesla coil! I have seen Londetudinal wave experiments, it can assure you it can penetrate a steel box no faraday cage is of any use! and you can bank on that one.

Dave
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 21, 2019, 01:57:07 PM
Realy? not with an ordinary Tesla coil! I have seen Londetudinal wave experiments, it can assure you it can penetrate a steel box no faraday cage is of any use! and you can bank on that one.
Dave
Quote
original  Wesley's statement   : electromagnetic longitudinal wave simply can not exist.
.
Dave  you have  rights  to express  your opinion.
I think that  Dave manifests  problem with  basic fundamental  knowledge  about physics of electromagnetic wave.
Here  in this part of forum we ask  you  Dave for link/support/prove/or evidence of your statement if there  is any.
When accepted and known laws of physics  and its models are questioned by anyone it is  nothing wrong with challenging such individuals.
We want the space of this forum to be  condensed to   maximum with  valuable and useful  data.
Wesley   
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: poynt99 on September 21, 2019, 05:12:39 PM
Luc,

Is the conventional explanation that far fetched?

Tesla performed one-wire transmission of power (https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/one-wire-transmission-of-energy/) via patent 593,138, and there is the occasional application in modern times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return) as well using high voltage and earth as a return.

The Tesla method above involves using real earth grounding at each end, and yours does not, but high voltage and/or high frequency currents can find their way to earth ground one way or the other. The TX and RX sites can be many kms apart because the earth is one large ground plane.

I don't know if your TC's would operate properly if the terminal caps were earth grounded to their own separate ground points, but it would be interesting to see if that worked and also increased the efficiency of energy transfer.

Regarding the question of lifting the entire experiment away from the earth to prove or disprove the earth return theory, I would say would be difficult to achieve. I envision two helicopters, each suspending a TC about 1000 feet off the ground, separated by 1000 feet.

One thing to consider; why does your experiment require high voltage, and/or high frequency to work? High voltage is easy to imagine, because it can involve the ionization of air molecules to create a conductive path, but what about high frequency? If energy is not being radiated via E-M waves, then might there be another mechanism involved that is creating a return path? If the above helicopter experiment still worked, then I might be inclined to think so. For example, could air behave like a RCL transmission line at high enough frequencies?

Another thing to consider; if a longitudinal wave is being transmitted and received, why is one wire between the two sites required?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: DavidWolff on September 21, 2019, 08:44:59 PM
Wesley thanks for the invitation to reply. Personly I think it's down to Wesley to prove Logdetudinal waves don't exist perhaps on his other
thread, the old scientist had an excellent video with two biscuit tins one inside the other and transistor
Radio blaring away inside them, and the other experiment is incinerating paperwork in a sealed metal case, it worked perfectly.
Didn't the Lituwainian experiment use this phenomenon in its design? find that and you have your proof meanwhile have a look at this 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjz-5Lqtxow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjz-5Lqtxow)   < please watch this video

https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html (https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html)

kind regards Dave

PS At uni we were always taught to ask when we can't get our heads around a problem, please explain.



Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 21, 2019, 10:50:50 PM
Answer provided to:DavidWolff
answers are for and against scalar wave:
Quote#1
Quote
A scalar wave is a purported type of electromagnetic wave that works outside physics as we know it.
The central conceit is that scalar waves restore certain useful aspects of Maxwell's equations "discarded"
in the 19 th century by those fools Heaviside, Hertz and Gibbs.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=scalar+waves+wikipedia&qs=SC&pq=scalar+wave+ikip%5bedia&sc=1-21&cvid=AC5BD92DBB2A417D8ADDF63E579A12F1&FORM=QBRE&sp=1 (https://www.bing.com/search?q=scalar+waves+wikipedia&qs=SC&pq=scalar+wave+ikip%5bedia&sc=1-21&cvid=AC5BD92DBB2A417D8ADDF63E579A12F1&FORM=QBRE&sp=1)
Quote#2
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/scalar-waves-is-this-a-complete-fabrication.238709/ (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/scalar-waves-is-this-a-complete-fabrication.238709/)
Quote
Wikipedia.org labels Scalar Wave theory as pseudoscience. 
You need to provide some credible references (preferably in refereed professional journals),
or this thread will be deleted.  We do not permit crackpot theories here on the PF.
Quote#3
Quote
however, later physicists assumed these equations were meaningless, since scalar waves had not been empirically observed and repeatedly
verified among the scientific community at large.
https://www.iawaketechnologies.com/faq/scalar-waves/ (https://www.iawaketechnologies.com/faq/scalar-waves/)

 Quote#4
Quote
The theory is considered pseudoscience (nonsense) yet is widely promoted among reseachers looking for ‘free energy’ or ‘over unity’
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/physics/electromagnetism/scalar-waves

 (https://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/physics/electromagnetism/scalar-waves)
Didn't the Lituwainian experiment use this phenomenon in its design?
No  it didn't. We were expecting NMR phenomena due to strong vibration of special ferrite from old Russian TV Rubin
That sound was also present in some versions of Akula and Ruslan devices.
In some   of the samples tested  the Yoke ferrite  cracked
I don't see as of today any  prove  of existence of scalar  waves
If you can  not  provide scientifically   existing prove  please just don't force the subject of  scalar wave
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: d3x0r on September 22, 2019, 01:58:32 PM
Re Goubau line

"A Goubau line or Sommerfeld-Goubau line,[1] or G-line for short, is a single wire transmission line used to conduct radio waves at UHF and microwave frequencies."

"Ultra high frequency (UHF) is the ITU designation for radio frequencies in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz),"

I don't think 1Mhz is anywhere near either of that.

Why does an AC circuit NEED a completed path?  Why can't you just drive a current between two capacitive masses across a coil?

C - L - C
    L  - some other coil to induce the current...

The electron cloud in a wire IS slightly elastic... or you couldn't send pulses of a higher frequency than the length of the wire.  It is not in-compressable.





Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 22, 2019, 04:48:22 PM
"A Goubau line or Sommerfeld-Goubau line,/ G-line, is a single wire transmission line used
to conduct radio waves at UHF and microwave frequencies. in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz),"
I don't think 1Mhz is anywhere near either of that.
Wesley's answer :
Quote
Note#1: you  can also create  two cones structure with    wire as explained in links
it will work also with magnet wire as that wire is coated with dielectric paint.


Note#2: some of  you may have problem to identify it as Goubau  due to slightly different configuration.
but we  definitely   deal with surface wave in dielectric!!!/ metal interface.
don't be surprised   if it works also with non coated   copper  wire. Yes it will but the mechanism is exactly  the same  it will be copper/ air interface.
But if  we talking about effectiveness  of energy  transmission  than use Teflon coated wire 
Note#3:  it  is not much difference  if you use  1ft  wide aluminum foil or you use wire.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539175/#msg539175 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539175/#msg539175)
Physics tends to give separate names to the same phenomena based on convenience of pointing at  given area of it.
Example: light is electromagnetic wave and is part  of  electromagnetic spectrum but it is made from visible light, infrared ,ultraviolet.
It is convenient to use distinctive name for the type of  surface wave  at low frequencies and  this is  e.g  Zenneck Wave.
The  reflecting and propagating   properties of Zenneck Wave are specific  and  unique to that particular range  of electromagnetic surface  wave phenomena.
Why does an AC circuit NEED a completed path? .
The simplest answer:
if  there  is  no  current flow, there is no  rate of change and energy dissipation.For these who wants to have massage of your brain  the controversy is discussed here:
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit)
Remaining  unanswered part of comment of user:d3x0r was formulated not in condensed, precise and concise form having logical unity.
Logical  Unity: logical unit of Logical  Unity is a unique connection to an application program  or to logically precise answer.
Another  words:  logically precise answer is possible due  to very narrow and highly  precise and direct question not  bouncing around and not being reflected.
Physics has no emotions, feelings,and is apolitical .
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 22, 2019, 11:44:19 PM
all messages  described in post 
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539104/#msg539104 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539104/#msg539104)
 are approved
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: d3x0r on September 23, 2019, 05:00:00 AM
Current can flow in an open wire... it's only a small current due to the capacitance of the metal itself.


This calculator (https://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/174-cable-capacitance-calculator) has no dependancy on insulation type, air being as good as teflon, because it's not between the metal and dialectric, but just of the metal itself, when calculating the capcitance of a length of wire.

 or this one (https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_to_calculate_the_theoretical_specific_capacitance_of_materials) to calculate the capcitance of a mass of meterial, given

Capacitance, C = n X F/M X V
Capacity = n X F/M X 3.6
Where, n is number of electron transfer, F is Faraday Constant, M is Molar mass, V is applied potential.

which then means a sphere of metal, varnished or naked (as used in most telsa coils) is the same capictance.  It may be true that a varnished body of metal will hold a higher voltage, and be effecitvely more capacitance... but it's not really changing the capictance, just the ability to store more charge in the same capcitor.

---

so, again, I can have quite a current flowing in a coil with two mass-capcitances (say a 3x3x3 block of aluminum at each end, similar to what stiffler was using on his stuff)  and an inductor between it with an entirely open circuit; can store lots of energy in the resonant tank... and just need ANOTHER coil around it to extract energy from it.

While playing with toroidal(mobius wound) coils, I had lots of power transfered to the load, with the end of the coils connected to the load entirely open, and the windings themselves had very little internal/parasitic capacitance.  Attaching the other end to ground gave more electrons available.... but then it was

 ground-> coil -> LED-load -> coil ->ground  (two different filaments on the same coil)
and once I had it started that way, I could just remove the ground and leave the ends of the coils tied together, and there was enough electrons in the circuit to continue; but it would not re-start in that configuration... and ends up back at a closed circuit, which is diverging from the original point that the open circuit without the grounds also worked.

coil -> LED-load ->coil  (two different filaments on the same coil, with less than pico-farads of coupling between them... that is there's more capcitance in the wire than is shared between the two filaments.)



--
Edit: I've been on vacation for the past month, and a couple more weeks, when I get back home I'll do a more meaningful build along the lines of the topic.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: decogsm on September 23, 2019, 07:27:11 AM
The real 100%  Tesla Wireless Power Transmission can be found here:

http://www.tamaseduard.com/DOWNLOAD/file/T.E.L.T.mp4 (http://www.tamaseduard.com/DOWNLOAD/file/T.E.L.T.mp4)

http://www.TamasEduard.com (http://www.TamasEduard.com)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMK0B9ljNrc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMK0B9ljNrc)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 23, 2019, 07:54:34 PM
Current can flow in an open wire... it's only a small current due to the capacitance of the metal itself.
  That is correct the higher  the voltage  the lower the current =  power
That compared   to  safety standard:
Quote
International ICNIRP safety standards for RF current in the body in the Tesla coil frequency range of 0.1 - 1 MHz specify a maximum current density of 0.2 mA
per square centimeter and a maximum power absorption rate (SAR) in tissue of 4 W/kg in limbs and 0.8 W/kg average over the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil)
However trick  is in understanding  of  the  phenomena:
trick #1:
Line voltage is the voltage seen on the AC line, typically single phase. Line current is the current that results when that voltage is applied to a load.
http://www.engineering.com/Ask@/qactid/1/qaqid/1286.aspx (http://www.engineering.com/Ask@/qactid/1/qaqid/1286.aspx)
trick#2
is to understand this:
Capturing Surface Electromagnetic Energy into a DC through Single-Conductor Transmission Line at Microwave Frequencies
http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf
 (http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf)
Think ABOUT  signal in the wire  or  rather dielectric covering that wire - between two Tesla coils, -  as surface wave.
Remember that surface wave existing in the  interface is that what we focus our-self at.
Than read  here:
Quote
Physics tends to give separate names to the same phenomena based on convenience of pointing at  given area of it.
Example: light is electromagnetic wave and is part  of  electromagnetic spectrum but it is made from visible light, infrared ,ultraviolet.
It is convenient to use distinctive name for the type of  surface wave  at low frequencies and  this is  e.g  Zenneck Wave.
The  reflecting and propagating   properties of Zenneck Wave are specific  and  unique to that particular range  of electromagnetic surface  wave phenomena.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539218/#msg539218 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539218/#msg539218)
conclusion:
Even if we mistakenly  identified phenomena (by its  very much  unique name) in the  wire( transmission line) between Tx Tesla coil and Rx Tesla coil having load,
we are always  dealing with EM wave  and  that particular EM wave does   not change  its behavior when compared to  Zenneck wave
Frequency of operation  can be in kHz  too  (means : not in  MHz  and GHz)
Our wire can be replaced with  aluminum foil 1ft wide and infinitely  long  and - it will behave the same way , however
the role of dielectric covering the wire in our Goubau  line is now  taken  by  air  as dielectric   creating  interface with  surface  of that foil.
By its  very much  unique name  it will no longer be  named  Goubau  line it will be named Zenneck wave in the interface
if frequency is low.

Note : the missing  two  cones  of original Goubau line creates confusion to some of you. That can be explained by small diameter of wire in Goubau line but it is not important  here so I leave it as
it is.



Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on September 24, 2019, 02:05:39 AM
hello

Finally i got to do some tests of my own.
Aprox. 450khz  and 22.5volt 0.35 amp.  75 feet single wire transmission  .
 At load ( small automotive light bulb )  22.5 v 0.75 amp .

I have failed to send surface wave . Tx was inside the building while testing so
hight of top load was limited. To me more important question is:
For surface wave do i need my ground to be in one vertical line with coil and top load??? Mine was not.
Is the image in the ground dependent on ground rod location ?
Next time how should i prepare myself? Having ground rod 3 or 4 feet away is ok or its no no??

Thx 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: ramset on September 25, 2019, 04:58:53 PM
 Just a note
Previous experiments presented by gotoLuc  utilized parts and things on hand


When this topic was formally started orders were placed for components and pieces necessary to do a more focused or specific Zenneck topology as outlined in Wesley’s many contributions .


ATM Luc has an issue with his computor crashing .(no net access ATM for his personal acc’t)


He also has some other commitment (not FE related ..but definitely  “green theme “ energy production)
Which he needs to get done these next few weeks .

Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 28, 2019, 12:03:12 AM
Luc,

Is the conventional explanation that far fetched?

Tesla performed one-wire transmission of power (https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/one-wire-transmission-of-energy/) via patent 593,138, and there is the occasional application in modern times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return) as well using high voltage and earth as a return.

The Tesla method above involves using real earth grounding at each end, and yours does not, but high voltage and/or high frequency currents can find their way to earth ground one way or the other. The TX and RX sites can be many kms apart because the earth is one large ground plane.

I don't know if your TC's would operate properly if the terminal caps were earth grounded to their own separate ground points, but it would be interesting to see if that worked and also increased the efficiency of energy transfer.

Regarding the question of lifting the entire experiment away from the earth to prove or disprove the earth return theory, I would say would be difficult to achieve. I envision two helicopters, each suspending a TC about 1000 feet off the ground, separated by 1000 feet.

One thing to consider; why does your experiment require high voltage, and/or high frequency to work? High voltage is easy to imagine, because it can involve the ionization of air molecules to create a conductive path, but what about high frequency? If energy is not being radiated via E-M waves, then might there be another mechanism involved that is creating a return path? If the above helicopter experiment still worked, then I might be inclined to think so. For example, could air behave like a RCL transmission line at high enough frequencies?

Another thing to consider; if a longitudinal wave is being transmitted and received, why is one wire between the two sites required?

Well, I'm not the only one that finds your explanation of the TC top capacitance completing the current loop "through ground" to be far fetched.
I explained your hypothesis to the 87yo retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist that comes for coffee each morning and his reply was, I don't think so.
He hasn't yet found an acceptable explanation on how the current loop occurs.

To further prove or disprove the possibility of ground transmission, I put together a new test using 3/4" x 10 feet long copper pipes as grounding rods 15 feet apart to verify if it's even possible to use the ground to replace the single wire.


Test results: https://youtu.be/1D8N8Jq5mzs (https://youtu.be/1D8N8Jq5mzs)


Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gyulasun on September 28, 2019, 12:58:39 AM
Hi Luc,

Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?

I know the oscillator automatically follows the TX coil resonant frequency but the RX coil cannot do this,  so in case the operating
TX frequency happens to change when you swap from the wire to the grounded copper pipe, the TX coil is happy to resonate at a
new frequency (the oscillator follows any change) but the RX coil may get detuned and this may be misleading when estimating
power transfer. 
I am not saying this is the main reason why the bulb is not lit at all when the grounding is used, just a headups that the RX coil
may get detuned.

It is possible you have already tested such detuning effect?

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 28, 2019, 05:55:37 AM
Hi Luc,

Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?

I know the oscillator automatically follows the TX coil resonant frequency but the RX coil cannot do this,  so in case the operating
TX frequency happens to change when you swap from the wire to the grounded copper pipe, the TX coil is happy to resonate at a
new frequency (the oscillator follows any change) but the RX coil may get detuned and this may be misleading when estimating
power transfer. 
I am not saying this is the main reason why the bulb is not lit at all when the grounding is used, just a headups that the RX coil
may get detuned.

It is possible you have already tested such detuning effect?

Thanks,
Gyula

Hi Gyula,

You have a good point there and I didn't think of confirming if the circuit frequency changed but I'll check that tomorrow.
However, I don't think it's a matter of the circuit detuning but rather a matter of introducing a resistance of 2k Ohm (I now measured) between the grounding rods compared to the 15 feet of 14 AWG wire which is only in the milli Ohms range.
So my thinking is. it's the grounds high resistance that's choking the power transfer.

The point of the demonstration was mostly to demonstrate how bad of a conductive path the ground is in my area which is the path poynt99 believes is how 15 watts worth of current is using as a return path through the ground between the TC top capacitance.
So if I can't transfer any power 15 feet away using 10 feet deep copper grounding rods, then how can the TC top capacitance do it?

I'll confirm if the circuit stays tuned to 1.1Mhz once connected to the grounding rod.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 28, 2019, 11:14:44 AM
I did the DC test but the situation is the same for AC.

https://youtu.be/6t-WbWIqwhY

Of course, all devices correctly measure the 4ohm resistor
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 28, 2019, 01:17:08 PM
https://youtu.be/1vDRcrw41OI?t=37

Tesla and Kapanadze talked about the impulse. Each of us understands this. The focus should be on how to receive this energy by moving the coil into resonance with this impulse to slow down the response and thus extend the duration of action.

Is this a good explanation. Does anyone contradict Tesla's words when he says the impulse is MW or GigaW of energy ?! Probably not.

However, there are switching power supplies and they do not give more than they get what they do wrong or why it is not so obvious.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 28, 2019, 01:23:13 PM
http://www.technoattic.by/page3_exp_VTTC_GU-50.html

https://youtu.be/PtG5nU34WQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSi2bMJgtqw
...his channel
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: d3x0r on September 28, 2019, 03:07:54 PM
@gotoluc
you could maybe just spray down the ground with a hose ... 2k Ohm, that's really high.  Thanks for measuring.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 28, 2019, 04:26:10 PM
Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?

I have retested the setups using a scope and the self tuning resonance circuit stays at 1.1Mhz (TC resonant frequency) connected to wire or grounding rods.

Video demo: https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ (https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ)

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 28, 2019, 05:26:09 PM
I did the DC test but the situation is the same for AC.

https://youtu.be/6t-WbWIqwhY (https://youtu.be/6t-WbWIqwhY)

Of course, all devices correctly measure the 4ohm resistor

Hi r2fpl,

Using a multimeter is not the ideal way to measure actual resistance between grounding rods. It only give an estimate of the grounds conductivity. There are more specialized instrument for doing this which transmits and receives a signal, then computes the resistance.

@gotoluc
you could maybe just spray down the ground with a hose ... 2k Ohm, that's really high.  Thanks for measuring.

Yes d3x0r, I agree but the point of the test was to demonstrate how bad of a conductor the ground is in my area.
This was a reply to poynt99 post, suggesting the currents return path is completed through the ground by coupling of Tesla coils top capacitance.

Electronic engineering states that, to deliver current there must be a return path (example: 2 wires)
So as far as an EE is concerned, it is not possible to transfer power using only one wire, there must be a return path somewhere.
I personally don't agree the ground can be considered as the return path in my area anyways and why I made this demonstration.
I have already demonstrated it's not done through the air by enclosing the receiver in a Faraday cage. So it's still unclear how this simple circuit can transfer power using only one wire at distances of 15 meters or more as demonstrated by this video r2fpl has found. 

Link to 15 meter single wire power transfer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)

So an EE is unable to explain how this can possibly work because the teachings have remained limited till today.
Tesla knew of this misunderstanding over 100 years ago and tried to educate by demonstrating but was cut off by the influences of the time.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: znel on September 28, 2019, 05:46:47 PM
I have retested the setups using a scope and the self tuning resonance circuit stays at 1.1Mhz (TC resonant frequency) connected to wire or grounding rods.

Video demo: https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ (https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ)

Regards
Luc
I believe gyula was referring to the receiver coil changing frequency when connected to earth, in which case you may need more or less capacitance in the top load.   The sandy ground, as you mentioned, doesn't provide the mineral content between the ground pair needed for a lower resistance.   If you watered the ground around the rods, this would expand the area in which the current can flow ( instead of the small area of just the rod ) and lower resistance.    A "good" ground would be a deep ground, one that penetrated the water table where minerals and moisture is abundant.   
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gyulasun on September 28, 2019, 09:27:14 PM
Hi Luc,

Thanks for checking the operating frequency for the two cases.

Let me notice the followings:

-- you pay attention to the frequency of 1.1 MHz and not to the decimals and I think that the loaded Q of the two secondary coils may remain relatively high. From your scope display the frequency is 1.147 MHz for the direct wire connection and is 1.137 MHz for the grounded pipe connection. This roughly 10 kHz change at the TX coil frequency could mean a significant detuning when we are dealing with high Q RX and TX circuits.

However, the RX coil frequency would change roughly in the same amount and direction the TX coil's frequency does when their bottom wires are grounded to the pipes so the 10 kHz change can safely be neglected indeed.
So here I assume the pipes may detune both coils in the same amount so both coils may remain closely tuned to each other as you carefully tuned them with the singly wire connection. I answer this also to member znel's comment above, it was easier to check the TX coil frequency change than that of the RX coil. The tuning on the RX coil would be the best as he has mentioned by changing the top load capacitance, and I add to use a low power LED as an indicator instead of the incandescent bulb.  But there is no real need to do this, it is sure there is a certain amount of energy transfer towards the RX coil but ground losses certainly limit it. 

-- you measure the ground's DC resistance between the pipes as 2 kOhm. Unfortunately, ground resistance (or rather) impedance is frequency dependent too.  I agree what you wrote to member r2fpl on measuring ground conductivity, it is a complex issue and conductivity may change due to change in the moisture content of the soil etc as znel mentioned.
Regarding Tesla, I think he ultimately wished to resonate the entire Earth by the magnifying transmitter for the high efficiency (over 95-96%) energy transfer and this would not involve the Earth's  conductivity in the sense his earlier coil transmitters (by single wire or via air) or your present tests would.

Gyula

I have retested the setups using a scope and the self tuning resonance circuit stays at 1.1Mhz (TC resonant frequency) connected to wire or grounding rods.

Video demo: https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ (https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ)

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on September 28, 2019, 09:40:11 PM
Hi r2fpl,

Using a multimeter is not the ideal way to measure actual resistance between grounding rods it only give an estimate of the grounds conductivity. There are more specialized instrument for doing this which transmits and receives a signal, then computes the resistance.

Yes d3x0r, I agree but the point of the test was to demonstrate how bad of a conductor the ground is in my area.
This was a reply to poynt99 post, suggesting the currents return path is completed through the ground by coupling of Tesla coils top capacitance.

STATEMENT :

Electronic engineering states that, to deliver current there must be a return path (example: 2 wires)
So as far as an EE is concerned, it is not possible to transfer power using only one wire, there must be a return path somewhere.

RELATED NON CONVENTIONAL EE-DEVICE :
https://www.google.com/search?q=avramenko+1-+wire+plug&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m





I personally don't agree the ground can be considered as the return path in my area anyways and as demonstrated.
I have already demonstrated it's not done through the air by enclosing the receiver in a Faraday cage. So it's still unclear how this simple circuit can transfer power using only one wire at distances of 15 meters or more as demonstrated by this video r2fpl has found. 

Link to 15 meter single wire power transfer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)

So an EE is unable to explain how this can possibly work because the teachings have remained limited till today.
Tesla knew of this misunderstanding over 100 years ago and tried to educate by demonstrating but was cut off by the influences of the time.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 29, 2019, 12:28:33 AM
you pay attention to the frequency of 1.1 MHz and not to the decimals and I think that the loaded Q of the two secondary coils may remain relatively high. From your scope display the frequency is 1.147 MHz for the direct wire connection and is 1.137 MHz for the grounded pipe connection. This roughly 10 kHz change at the TX coil frequency could mean a significant detuning when we are dealing with high Q RX and TX circuits.

Since we are not dealing with a clean sine wave in both cases the scope averages the frequency based on the wave form shape. The very small difference in frequency the scope displays may not at all be a real change in frequency from the circuit but from a small change in the sine wave shape. Look closely at each wave shape and I'm quite sure you will see a small difference and hence the change.
I'm use to seeing these small digital artifacts affect the frequency data on a digital scope and why I ignored the digits below 1.1Mhz
I'm very confident the transmitter coil is locked at the same resonating frequency in both cases.

However, the RX coil frequency would change roughly in the same amount and direction the TX coil's frequency does when their bottom wires are grounded to the pipes so the 10 kHz change can safely be neglected indeed.

Yes, I agree.

So here I assume the pipes may detune both coils in the same amount so both coils may remain closely tuned to each other as you carefully tuned them with the singly wire connection. I answer this also to member znel's comment above, it was easier to check the TX coil frequency change than that of the RX coil. The tuning on the RX coil would be the best as he has mentioned by changing the top load capacitance, and I add to use a low power LED as an indicator instead of the incandescent bulb.  But there is no real need to do this, it is sure there is a certain amount of energy transfer towards the RX coil but ground losses certainly limit it. 

The point of the experiment was to consider the ground (in my area) as a possible current return path. So to reduce load and retune should not be necessary but I do understand why it's mentioned.

you measure the ground's DC resistance between the pipes as 2 kOhm. Unfortunately, ground resistance (or rather) impedance is frequency dependent too.  I agree what you wrote to member r2fpl on measuring ground conductivity, it is a complex issue and conductivity may change due to change in the moisture content of the soil etc as znel mentioned.

Yes, I agree, ground impedance needs a special instrument to measure.

I made a video demo of such an Instrument I have access to: https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM (https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM)

Regarding Tesla, I think he ultimately wished to resonate the entire Earth by the magnifying transmitter for the high efficiency (over 95-96%) energy transfer and this would not involve the Earth's  conductivity in the sense his earlier coil transmitters (by single wire or via air) or your present tests would.

Yes, again, totally agree. Tesla wanted to offer mankind much more then just the AC Grid.
I also agree that ground conductivity was not how Tesla's ultimate technology worked.
I'm only playing with this as a starting point but interestingly enough, just this one wire power transmission is enough to rattle the present EE beliefs.
The magnifying transmitter is beyond belief.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on September 29, 2019, 01:22:59 AM
Https://vizivtechnologies.com commercial transmission co FYI  Using Zenneck waves
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 29, 2019, 02:08:49 AM
http://Https://vizivtechnologies.com (http://Https://vizivtechnologies.com) commercial transmission co FYI  Using Zenneck waves

Yes Jimboot, we are well aware of them. However, fact is still 99% of the electrical engineering establishment do not believe what they claim is possible.
It will remain a pipe dream until the day they publicly provide the service they claim.
Even then they'll have to deal with maybe years of 3rd party verification's before "The Establishment" is ready to rewrite the possibility of efficient high power wireless transmission.


Understand that even one wire power transmission is not possible according to "The Establishment"
Any educated engineer will tell you current must have a return path.
So just proving efficient one wire power transmission alone will be quite a feat!!!

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 29, 2019, 02:26:44 AM
Two different tests to verify ground rod impedance and ground resistance between the two 10 feet deep copper grounding rods.


Video demo: https://youtu.be/yAzWwAbDpFk (https://youtu.be/yAzWwAbDpFk)


Regards
Luc



 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 29, 2019, 05:32:48 AM
It looks  like    you guys didn't read what I  wrote in  here and in
Wesley's  Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
I'm not so  much  available now to respond as I have  major Jewish holiday,  and that's  few  days.
short note:
1.  you don't much  care what is the resistance of the ground   however it may  help
2.  you  are   not much interested  what is the current in  the ground, however it may  help .
3.  The Goubau line is made  not by use  of single wire  ,but by use of  single wire coated  with  dielectric that creates interface.
     and the line between  two  Tesla coils will work  only if you have  interface.
3a.depends from  frequency it may need   the TAPER as  explained here:
http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf (http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf)
Capturing Surface Electromagnetic Energy into a DC through Single-Conductor Transmission Line at Microwave Frequencies

3b.  non coated  copper  wire will work as well , but if  it is  not coated  than  role  of  dielectric is taken by air.
And  space between air  and  wire  is called interface   however nobody  tends  to recognize it  this way.
If you  use  air as  dielectric  than   you  have  a lot of losses

4. So how it is that for Goubau  line  you need to  have   wire  that is  coated   with dielectric?
 
Answer: first we  need to  understand  what is interface.:
it is space  or  rather   plane or area  between  two media  with different  dielectric  or conductive properties.
that includes  earth  that now  is  named: LOSSY  CONDUCTIVE MEDIUM.( google it)

examples of   interface:
1-  dielectric and another  dielectric   with different dielectric properties
such as teflon  and  polyamide one on the top of another. The space between  them is your  interface.
for your  eye there is no space but  for EM wave it is.

2-  dielectric and  conductive  medium
such as copper foil( conductive  medium)  and air (dielectric)
Because the surface  of 1ft wide aluminum foil   is  better than  surface  of wire    used in Goubau  line than we have  much less losses if  condition needed for   energy transmission is met.
example of  this interface is here:
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)

3- lossy conductive  medium and dielectric     
such as  earth  and air.

there are more  types of   interface   and  these interfaces works  little different at different  frequencies.
That means   interface will  always be    the same  interface but  means of  feeding   EM wave  into the interface and out  may be characteristic   to given  frequency range.

Failures:
The failure   of your experiments  can be caused also by:
1. lack of impedance  match.
2. lack of proper  polarization AND BREWSTER  ANGLE - that is done (at its easiest)  by  changing elevation of top capacitor . HV Tesla coil  must be vertical to the  ground 
3. lack of resonance in both  the Tx  and Rx  Tesla coils
4. standing wave is:
Quote
stationary wave, is a wave (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Wave%20wikipedia) which oscillates in time but whose peak amplitude profile does not move in space.
so you need to free some   of its energy   and  feed it into interface at right Brewster angle.
5. your two  coil   the  Tx  and Rx system, between two points  A  and B is  reactive   system. 
that means   its capacitive and inductive - (reactive components  )  reactances  will be  the  most    important despite  the   distance between the  points.  (e.g 30m or  30 000 meters  it is always going  to be the same dependency present)

6 .wood is  not  the dielectric for us.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=412 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=412)
That  video  shows also the  difference between  dielectric suitable for  us  and  wood  table)
the interface is made by surface of dielectric and air
even  if  there  is  not receiving Tesla coil it is capacitive  coupling
of lightbulb  and my hand -that is my body  as part of resonance circuit

7. improper mode of  your EM wave
That  means that EM wave in its  regular  form  is TEM ( google it)
Your TEM wave in the interface is  now at TM mode-transverse magnetic mode. ( google it)

Note:
 behavior of TEM in Near Field is different  that in Far Field
typically  the  Brewster Angle from Top Capacitor down to Earth  is reaching  Earth at end of Near Field 
However  if   Top  Capacitor  is elevated low above the ground  than distance from  the bottom of  the Tesla Coil to the
point   of line  drown  from Top Capacitor  to the Earth surface   at 65  to 67 degrees  may be shorter than
the end  of Near Field  or it can   "land"  on  Earth( - the lossy conductive medium) at Fresnel Zone
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone)

so the recommended distance between two Tesla Coils the Tx and  Rx at 1.1MHz  is more than  21m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field)

Note:
Please understand that  TEM in TM mode is NON-RADIATIVE !!!!!
that means as you are  in  Far Field  you cant  receive  it  in air.
It is not radiating.
Wesley 
 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 29, 2019, 11:54:25 AM
Transfer energy: https://youtu.be/kg2YG_cWz14
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on September 29, 2019, 01:45:34 PM
Yes Jimboot, we are well aware of them. However, fact is still 99% of the electrical engineering establishment do not believe what they claim is possible.
It will remain a pipe dream until the day they publicly provide the service they claim.
Even then they'll have to deal with maybe years of 3rd party verification's before "The Establishment" is ready to rewrite the possibility of efficient high power wireless transmission.


Understand that even one wire power transmission is not possible according to "The Establishment"
Any educated engineer will tell you current must have a return path.
So just proving efficient one wire power transmission alone will be quite a feat!!!

Regards
Luc


Got it.
Ressurecting some coils. Great setup as usual luc. Thanks Wesley for the cheat sheet.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 29, 2019, 04:45:01 PM
Thank you Wesley for your posts and details.

Please don't think we are not reading your posts or following your instruction, we are reading but taking very small steps at a time.
We have a retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist who comes for coffee every morning and looks at my experiments.
As far as he is concerned , one wire power transmission is not possible let alone long distance efficient wireless power transmission.
We also have EE poynt99 (member here) who also believes one wire power transmission is not possible. So, we are taking our time by doing extra tests trying to satisfy all the possibilities of current return paths.
At this point our Lockheed Martin EE, Physicist  is in a confused state as he can no longer explain how the circuit works since we have eliminated most of all possible current return paths.
I'm sharing some of my tests here to help (or maybe confuse) other EE

Hopefully soon we will be moving forward to wireless power transmission by applying what you have been sharing.

Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 29, 2019, 04:50:55 PM
I got few minutes  to  respond
Fallowing comment is  related  to  one wire transmission of energy known also as Goubau line
Fallowing comment  must be  read  in association with  comment indicated  by   link right  below.

in regards to very  condensed:
- list of steps to succeed
- list  of possible errors
- terms and phenomena needed to be learned and understood
-and very condensed  explanation  of  how to transfer energy from point A  to B using different  forms of interface
that  was explained  here:

https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539357/#msg539357 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539357/#msg539357)

There is   a  misunderstanding of some of you  standing that
Quote
that electrical  loop  must  be closed for the current to flow.
simple answer:
EM (Electro-Magnetic) Electromagnetic wave  doesn't need closed loop  nor cares about it. 
This type  of phenomena is related to EM  and NOT  to   electrical circuit  and its laws. 

here is explanation:

EM wave known also as TEM in TM Mode is a must to have  to transfer  Energy from  point A to  B  on the Earth/air interface
or any other type of interface listed in  link from above
1.-TEM is Transverse Electromagnetic Wave
 is a mode of propagation where the electric and magnetic field lines are all restricted to directions normal (transverse)
to the direction of propagation. Plane waves are TEM, however, we are more interested in what types of transmission lines can support TEM.
- TEM mode is the preferred mode in coax (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/coax). Under proper conditions, all E-field lines run radially, while magnetic field lines run in circles around the center conductor.

1a.- Criteria for TEM propagation in transmission lines Five conditions for TEM propagation in a transmission line are below. Most textbooks get the top four correct but fail to mention (5)...
1. Fields are contained in uniform, isotropic dielectric (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/isotropy-and-anisotropy) material (excludes microstrip). For TEM, there is never a calculation of Keffective (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/keffective) needed!
2. Two or more conductors are required (excludes rectangular waveguide, but includes parallel-plate waveguide)
3. The conductors must have infinite conductivity. The IR drop across the conductor bends the E-field ever so slightly going forward.
4. The dielectric must be lossless.
5. The cross-section of the transmission line must remain constant (excludes certain types of slow-wave structures (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/slow-wave-structures))
Conditions (3) and (4) make it impossible to create pure TEM unless you have access to superconductors (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/superconductors) and a zero-gravity lab so you don't have to support the conductors. But these rules are splitting hairs and can usually be ignored in real life.
here  is the link: https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/transverse-electro-magnetic (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/transverse-electro-magnetic)
==============================================================
After you  read it   you  may partially forget it  as this is not the most important  for you to know.
==============================================================
And now  you are ready to go  to that  what is important to understand:
1. Basics of TEM, TE, and TM propagation (https://www.testandmeasurementtips.com/basics-of-tem-te-and-tm-propagation/)
2. Easy Explanation of TE and TM modes for Waveguides | Electromagnetic Field Theory Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHZB7iDi1w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHZB7iDi1w)

Note: interface  is a form of waveguide as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIABIU3tRw&t=5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIABIU3tRw&t=5s)


Wesley

Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 29, 2019, 05:17:49 PM
Thank you Wesley for your posts and details.

Please don't think we are not reading your posts or following your instruction, we are reading but taking very small steps at a time.
We have a retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist who comes for coffee every morning and looks at my experiments.
As far as he is concerned , one wire power transmission is not possible let alone long distance efficient wireless power transmission.
We also have EE poynt99 (member here) who also believes one wire power transmission is not possible. So, we are taking our time by doing extra tests trying to satisfy all the possibilities of current return paths.
At this point our Lockheed Martin EE, Physicist  is in a confused state as he can no longer explain how the circuit works since we have eliminated most of all possible current return paths.
I'm sharing some of my tests here to help (or maybe confuse) other EE

Hopefully soon we will be moving forward to wireless power transmission by applying what you have been sharing.

Kind regards
Luc

Luc,

Why do you say that you can't send energy to a light bulb with one wire? I've done it a long time ago. It is very easy.
All we need is TT + kacher + wire + bulb + ground. That's all. There is no closed circuit connection. If you want it will show in the movie. You can do it yourself.

Each fluorescent lamp within a tesla coil radius proves that there is energy transmission !!!
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on September 29, 2019, 08:45:37 PM
Luc,

Why do you say that you can't send energy to a light bulb with one wire? I've done it a long time ago. It is very easy.
All we need is TT + kacher + wire + bulb + ground. That's all. There is no closed circuit connection. If you want it will show in the movie. You can do it yourself.

Each fluorescent lamp within a tesla coil radius proves that there is energy transmission !!!

I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
So if you are a graduated EE like poynt99 or the retired EE & Physicist that visits the lab where I do experiments, you would be looking to explain how the current path is completed.

Poynt99 hypothesized that the current return path was completed through the ground (wireless) all the way to the top capacitance of the Tesla coils.

The retired EE & Physicist first hypothesized the current return path was completed through the air (like radio transmissions)

Each engineer will have their own version or explanation of how the current return path is completed but note none of them will consider it's all done through one wire since that's contrary to their teachings.

I have no problem believing efficient high power one wire transmission is possible, since I have not been trained by the establishment.
But for those that have, they will not surrender until they find how the current path is completed.

I had no idea of the EE teachings on this subject had no exceptions until the retired EE & Physicist told me about it.
So I'm sharing it here because many experimenters here are not EE let alone Physicists and may assume one wire power transmission is commonly excepted but it's not.
So it may be good to know this if you engaged in an exchange with an EE and why I'm taking the time to share this.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on September 29, 2019, 08:57:08 PM
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
So if you are a graduated EE like poynt99 or the retired EE & Physicist that visits the lab where I do experiments, you would be looking to explain how the current path is completed.

Poynt99 hypothesized that the current return path was completed through the ground (wireless) all the way to the top capacitance of the Tesla coils.

The retired EE & Physicist first hypothesized the current return path was completed through the air (like radio transmissions)

Each engineer will have their own version or explanation of how the current return path is completed but note none of them will consider it's all done through one wire since that's contrary to their teachings.

I have no problem believing efficient high power one wire transmission is possible, since I have not been trained by the establishment.
But for those that have, they will not surrender until they find how the current path is completed.

I had no idea of the EE teachings on this subject had no exceptions until the retired EE & Physicist told me about it.
So I'm sharing it because many experimenters here are not EE let alone Physicists and may assume one wire power transmission to be commonly excepted.

Regards
Luc

The explanation is probably very simple. This is an electron jump and alignment between + and - except that the potential difference relative to mass (earth) is constantly generated.
Does light or sound; (wave) have to return to the source?

Energy transfer using the TT coil has more than two possibilities.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 29, 2019, 09:29:45 PM
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
Regards
Luc
simple answer:
in our case  and in your recent experiment:
EM (Electro-Magnetic) Electromagnetic wave  doesn't need closed loop  nor cares about it. 
This type  of phenomena is related to EM  and NOT  to   electrical circuit  and its laws. 
more of it is here.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539371/#msg539371 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539371/#msg539371)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gyulasun on September 30, 2019, 12:29:42 AM
Since we are not dealing with a clean sine wave in both cases the scope averages the frequency based on the wave form shape. The very small difference in frequency the scope displays may not at all be a real change in frequency from the circuit but from a small change in the sine wave shape. Look closely at each wave shape and I'm quite sure you will see a small difference and hence the change.
I'm use to seeing these small digital artifacts affect the frequency data on a digital scope and why I ignored the digits below 1.1Mhz
I'm very confident the transmitter coil is locked at the same resonating frequency in both cases.

...
Hi Luc,

Yes, that is okay what you say on the digital scope frequency measurement when the measured signal is not fully 'clean'. I mentioned the 10 kHz difference because it can steadily be seen at the second decimal places: 1.147 MHz and 1.137 MHz, and only the third and fourth decimal frequency values change for the case when the coils' bottom wires are grounded to the pipes.  But the 10 kHz or so frequency change is a small and negligible issue, especially if we accept that both coils are pulled (downwards) by about 10 kHz.  The loaded Q for both coils very likely remains high and this establishes the operating frequency stability for both coils.  As you know, the unloded Q comes from XL/R where R is any coil's DC resistance and L is the inductance for any coil.  XL should be calculated for 1.1 MHz.

The ground resistance meter you show is an interesting instrument. Unfortunately the user manual for it does not include the measuring frequency it uses for ground resistance, at least I did not find any reference in its user manual for this make and type
https://manualzz.com/doc/7219334/ground-tester-manual (https://manualzz.com/doc/7219334/ground-tester-manual) .
I found another make and type, with similar specs and it uses 3.333 kHz measuring frequency when in the ground resistance measurement mode (page 17 in pdf file https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf (https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf) ).  It is very likely your meter also uses a some kHz test signal in ground resistance mode.
You measured 440 Ohm for one of the copper pipe groundings, does the other pipe have a similar resistance I wonder. When you have time would you check both at the same time.

And in case your meter indeed uses less than 10 kHz test frequency or around that, then your ground resistance can be different at the 1.1 MHz frequency the coils resonate at.  The 440 Ohm ground resistance measured at the likely some kHz frequency is much less than the near 2 kOhm DC ground resistance.

Thanks for your efforts and sharing the results.

Gyula
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 30, 2019, 01:04:02 AM
Although  we in the interface deal with   something  that looks like two dimensional  space  it is helpful first to look at TEM from the perspective of waveguide
I  was looking for  easy way  to explain TE and  TM mode but instead going to  mathematics lets take look at behavior of wave in  closed  space
or   to be more exact - enclosed  space  by walls of waveguide .
First and foremost important is that:
- TEM (Transverse ElectroMagnetic) wave, is  the wave that is  limited  in its ability to move to given direction   
as
- regular  ElectroMagnetic wave can propagate  omnidirectionally   from single  point source - such  as Tx( Transmitter)
So  by  giving  a  direction  or limiting EM  wave we creating TEM wave  that is exactly the same  but now  directional.
The waveguide is the device that   limits  wave in its ability to  propagate to just  given direction of our choice.

The surface  wave in the  interface   such as Zenneck Wave   behaves in similar  way to that of waveguide however  later on we  need  to point   at differences specific to this behavior in interface.
The quite  easy  video explaining limitations imposed by  us to  EM  wave  causing it to become TEM in TE or TM mode is explained  here to some extend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_zKHNYn8Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_zKHNYn8Q)


If we have no impedance  match at the Rx side  with  Tx  than we  will have one of fallowing:
-short circuit
-open circuit
-no load  or load  that along with our Rx  is  not matching  impedance of Tx.
remember our system of Tx and Rx   with interface or with waveguide  is the reactive system 

In all of  the  cases we will have   reflected wave that will affect our Tx  and  may even damage it.
and now  lets go  to specific time  in  the first video from  above here:
https://youtu.be/YQ_zKHNYn8Q?t=245 (https://youtu.be/YQ_zKHNYn8Q?t=245)
- the  lector  is  talking about impedance mismatch.
after you watch that part go  here:
and see  visual representation of what happened if we have  lets say   short at end of waveguide ( the effect for all of the cases short open  or improper load  will be  similar- it will be impedance mismatch ) 

the video  named:
A TEM waveguide with a Short Circuit
shows:
The Propagation of a TEM wave in a TEM transmission line with a short circuit on the right side.
Absorbing boundary conditions ABC are placed in the left side.
A sine wave excitation is injected from the left side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-CDmAkJaDc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-CDmAkJaDc)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 30, 2019, 01:12:00 AM
To understand  that what was written    above the beginner needs to  understand what is Transverse movement of wave in   given direction
and by that it will be  easier to understand  what I meant while talking about  Magnetic field   or Electric field  perpendicular to  direction  of propagation. 
That makes easier  to understand TE and TM mode .
So  lets  go to basics:
For these who  have problem  to understand what is  Transverse  Wave but  not yet directional Transverse Magnetic  wave
Here is video :
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iO81v42dQA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iO81v42dQA)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on September 30, 2019, 01:53:13 PM
Thanks Wesley, I like Luc’s approach of small steps and I like your distinction of the behavior of the gobau line and why a return path is not required. I’ve watched a few of your vids and have altered models accordingly so I can adjust height of top load .


I’ll working with old coils and building a new circuit and I’m waaaaay less proficient than luc and have less time to dedicate. When I get stuck though I’ll be coming back to your posts. I have enough room here to erect something big  ;D
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on September 30, 2019, 02:44:38 PM
#1
video made by  non  professional but  talking about the historical facts and  one of  them is 2018 establishing
office  in Bahrain  by NewPower cooperating with  Viziv Texzon   
watch it from here:
https://youtu.be/GZV7-keRFq8?t=1291 (https://youtu.be/GZV7-keRFq8?t=1291)

conclusion:
despite all of the skepticism Corum  brothers  who are  the source  of  everything  around using  their business with  high rank of  former lobbyist,military, known
figures in  politics  are pushing oil industry to consider:
- what will be the future  of  oil?
-what will happened if oil industry will  be  ignoring them?
-will they   be  willing to  cooperate and put billions of their own money to be at the right side at the right time.?
There is no place  for everyone there,  as someone must be  a loser.
Chevron is already  sucked  into  it and Milford Texas  Tesla Tower ins the  result of that.
For us  Viziv  is  only training  ground.
Learning how  to  send energy from  point A to B  is mandatory to have practical  and theoretical  skills to get to the next step:
Extraction  of Energy from Schumann waveguide.
============================================================================
#2
I have enough room here to erect something big  ;D
Size is not so much important.  :)
The reason why Viziv is so big is:
- the  voltage  and power foreseen/ expected (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+expect) ·  envisioned (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+envision) as to be transferred  by the  tower.
- the frequency  of operation 18kHz  , Corum  Bro's  don't  yet use  CC and CCW  winding technique  to make coil smaller.,
To make tests  with  smaller coil:
- the frequency of tests  can be  as high as 54Mhz..
- the transmitter can be  typical Ham transceiver  with  typical 100W# PEP.( use it  only at 10W as you may burn the  power transistors due to impedance mismatch)
-at any of  ham bands  the Ham is allowed  to have legal tests .
-the mode of operation CW ( use it in CW at best with electronic keyer  , not continuous CW!! as you may burn the  power transistors due to impedance mismatch)
-the  structure  and first tests  can be  done from starting scratch  in 1 day.(at best using 2 people.)
-The structure can stay there and be used  many  times with alterations done later.

legal note: HV is dangerous   I don't take any responsibility  for anything you  do.
that note applies to all of  my posts and comments  in here and in any other pace.
If  I'm not the Ham than I must  use e.g, - the friend who has  FCC  approved license to operate at Ham frequencies.
The best advice is do nothing :) heee. 

 
Wesley
   
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2019, 12:05:37 AM
Thanks Wesley for all the details.

Here are my v 2.0 secondary Tesla coils side by side with the first set I tested.
The new ones are wound on 39" inches long 4" i.d. pvc sewage pipe.
1400 turns of 22 AWG

Wesley, I have a question regarding the primary coil. Could I use 3/8 flexible copper pipe instead of Litz wire?... which is best?... does copper mass matter?

Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 01, 2019, 12:18:55 AM
Yes you can and yes it  is recommended
By the way,  great  job  .
http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html
it doesn't  have to be flat  coil

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2019, 12:32:12 AM
I found another make and type, with similar specs and it uses 3.333 kHz measuring frequency when in the ground resistance measurement mode (page 17 in pdf file https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf (https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf) ).  It is very likely your meter also uses a some kHz test signal in ground resistance mode.

3.3kHz sound about like the frequency of my meter. Listen to the (below) video again which I purposely brought the camera mic close to the meter and you can clearly hear it. You can download this free audio spectrum analyzer http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html (http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html) to find the peak frequency.

https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM (https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM)


You measured 440 Ohm for one of the copper pipe groundings, does the other pipe have a similar resistance I wonder. When you have time would you check both at the same time.

Today the original grounding rod I measured with the impedance meter is 340 Ohms and the second one is 640 Ohms

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2019, 12:45:05 AM
Yes you can and yes it  is recommended
By the way,  great  job  .
http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html (http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html)
it doesn't  have to be flat  coil

Wesley

Thanks for the reply Wesley

How many turns of 3/8" copper pipe as primary would be needed?

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 01, 2019, 01:22:42 AM
what is said   down here  :
don't  take  it to  consideration  yet.
it is  just good to know  it.
#1
Comment under video listed below is  not mine but I like  it very much.
It says about CW /  CCW / bifilar winding method that can be used for e.g HV Tesla coil
to get less winds and  lower frequency of resonance but still   get required  1/4th of wavelength or
1/24 or lower  but still "resonating" as if it was 1/4th. ( quarterwave )
Tariel Kapanadze used  this method  in his coil.

 
Quote
Monofilar and bifilar gives the same DC resistance.
What is different is high frequency impedance.
Bifilar gives lower self resonance frequency.
The principle is that there is a certain parasite capacitance between coil windings, which stores a certain amount of energy.
By winding the coil bifilar, you get substantial bigger voltage differences between adjacent windings and therefore more energy
is being stored in these parasite/self capacitances.
Since the energy stored in a capacitor equals 1/2 C V^2 ( Energy Stored on a Capacitor ),
this is a significant difference in the amount of energy that is being stored in the coils self capacitance.
And since in resonance, this energy is being flipped back and forth between the capacitance (voltage) and the inductance (current, magnetic component).
You get significantly stronger oscillations with bifilar coil at resonance frequency.
Tesla Bifilar Coil DC Resistance: Pancake (1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fTf9IlPYmY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fTf9IlPYmY)
by TinselKoala.
=======================================================================
#2
https://www.teslacoildesign.com/design.html (https://www.teslacoildesign.com/design.html)
=======================================================================
#3
Two coil or double-resonant circuits - Virtually all present Tesla coils use the two coil resonant transformer,
consisting of a primary winding to which current pulses are applied, and a secondary winding that produces the high voltage, invented by Tesla in 1891.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil)
=======================================================================

this is just funny video for your entertainment only: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSXi3BkkNA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSXi3BkkNA)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: poynt99 on October 01, 2019, 04:29:14 AM
Luc,

Allow me to ask this:

- Will your power transmission work without the top load capacitors in place?

- If the top terminal is one plate of a capacitor, where or what is the second plate?

- How do capacitors work?

btw, for the record, I am not an EE (and I don't believe I've ever claimed to be).
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: d3x0r on October 01, 2019, 07:18:04 AM
I was going to be challenging again; but deleted that.


I did run with the dielectric being important....
Vaccuum = 1
air = 1.00000036 or something, basically vaccuum
ptfe/teflon is only at 2.1... (I'll have to strip some wire and see if I really get 2x capacitance with the insulation...)


water though is  (87.9, 80.2, 55.5) @ (0, 20, 100 °C) Edit: (:) ya, or vodka)

.  should be able to run a single conductor through water and get a really good dielectric self-capacitance increase.
though they seem to call it Relative permittivity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_permittivity) suppose that's why they use water in super caps?

---
Re copper pipe primary - tesla coil builders suggest that it be a proportion of the secondary... though when doing a kacher sort of circuit, anywhere from 1 to  12 windings worked, but the resonant frequency would change.  There is some sweet balance I'm sure between the inductance/magnetic reactance of the primary vs the secondary that will probably exist, but that's starting to be mechanically resonant. (no help, just personal observations)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 01, 2019, 12:05:48 PM
How many turns of 3/8" copper pipe as primary would be needed?
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=661 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=661)
look  here   at 2200m
it is 8  turns.
but  gauge AWG 1, 2 or 4 electrical wire is perfectly Ok  too.
Voltage is  determined by turns ratio between primary and secondary  not by  the  gauge.

Here  you  have calculator:
https://www.teslascientific.com/products/coil-inductance-calculator/ (https://www.teslascientific.com/products/coil-inductance-calculator/)
keep  in  mind that  Tesla coil is a radio frequency (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Radio_frequency) oscillator (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Electronic_oscillator) that drives an air-core double-tuned resonant transformer (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling)
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Tesla_coil (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Tesla_coil)
spark gap (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Spark_gap) to excite oscillations in the tuned transformer. More sophisticated designs use transistor (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Transistor) or thyristor (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Thyristor)[15] (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Tesla_coil#cite_note-Haddad-15)
switches or vacuum tube (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Vacuum_tube) electronic oscillators (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Electronic_oscillator) to drive the resonant transformer.

So in early Tariel Kapanadze devices  use of spark gap was the  easiest way to  create  wide envelope of  suitable frequencies
(at wide bandwidth)
Depends  from:
- spark gap distance between electrodes 
- voltage  delivered to the spark gap
-material   used to make spark gap
the Frequencies  of very small amplitude  growing up   to  its maximum  and that  falling down  to its minimum 
created  quite  wide  top  resonance frequencies of  few kHz  wide amplitude  only  when:
- given primary winding was tuned  by use  of capacitor or by  puling out/in winds (and by that changing diameter of coil)
So the spark gap by itself made spectrum of frequencies that Have  been  than shaped/ determined/  dependent
from  resonant  frequency of primary  winding.
However  secondary  winding  has its own resonant frequency-ies ,so  function of primary  is to deliver electrical potential  to secondary.
Because you have  ratio of winds  of primary   vs secondary than like in every transformer  voltage  at  secondary will depend
from that  ratio.
e.g  if primary is:
- 1 wind/1V  than at  secondary having 1000  winds    (ratio 1:1000)    ,voltage =  1000V
and if
- 3 winds/1V   than at  secondary having 1000  winds ( ratio 3:1000)  ,voltage =  333.33V
- 8 winds/1V   than at  secondary having 1000  winds ( ratio 8:1000)  ,voltage =  125.V

so someone may ask  why I need all of this?
example:
we have two  coil structure  Rx and Tx.
if your Tx  secondary  winding   of Tesla  coil is in resonance but frequency  it is not much   stable and is drifting  left/ right
than if it is feed by  nice  good stable generator the bandwidth  of  this resonance will be narrow.
So  Rx( another the  same Tesla coil) at some distance  from  Tx must be  sharp  tuned to  this  particular frequency.
But if  Rx frequency drifts  or Tx    frequency drifts than you have no  energy transfer  from  Tx  to Rx.
However if you have spark gap  in Tx than:
-if Tx drifts than due to wide  frequency spectrum  created by  spark  Gap  is at high amplitude close  to  its  maximum center and Tx will 
transmit at just  slightly  lower  power at  closest  adjacent  frequency  to the frequency  it drifted from.
Than at some distance we   have Rx  that  can be  retuned if needed or  just left alone as  the energy   received is still  at  satisfactory level.
Summary:
spark gap just is easy  way to  keep  Rx  -  Tx   energy level  if system drifts.So what is better  generator or spark gap?
It depends from how good and stable is your mechanical   structure of  Tesla Coil in terms of:
- mechanical rigidity
- heat  absorption and exchange
- stability  of top capacitor positioning
- rigidity of capacitive and inductive elements if your structure.
- preventivness (no  streamers, sparks all around)

Note: difficult  to  read but valuable information  is here if someone wants to play with spark gap.
but also ab out structure of Tesla coil and coupling
https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/operatn2.html (https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/operatn2.html)
Wesley 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 01, 2019, 01:26:42 PM
If there are countless resonances generated by the spark gap, how are they received and the power generated?

Many people have experimented with Tesla coils and no one has shown anything interesting for an increase in power. Facts: all tesla coils operate rather at frequencies> 800kHz. We don't know what will happen when we reach <100 kHz? maybe it will be the same but maybe nothing more than the right frequency with a narrow range is important! What frequency could it be? Kapanadze only once mentions that it is about 200kHz.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 01, 2019, 01:52:37 PM
Answer to r2fpl:
if you  look  at  picture from above
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image// (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image//)
you see that at max resonance you  have significant  power  increase  but  at 210khz   and 228kHz  you have quite wide range of frequencies at 75%
of  its maximum resonat  power   and  that energy is  ready  to be used by  drifting  Tesla structure.
You are  not interested  with big power for    your experiment.
But if you  use  single frequency generator  than you  limited  to  just 218.6 kHz  at 100%  of  power
Your Tx  and Rx must not be drifting   more than few hundred Hz.
So spark gap is not efficient but  is convenient  way    to  go.
 Viziv Tower operates at 20kHz/18kHz so  if you say that: most  of Tesla coils are  resonating at 800kHz  it is   only your  own  opinion   shared.
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on October 01, 2019, 01:56:14 PM
Thanks Wesley for all the details.

Here are my v 2.0 secondary Tesla coils side by side with the first set I tested.
The new ones are wound on 39" inches long 4" i.d. pvc sewage pipe.
1400 turns of 22 AWG

Wesley, I have a question regarding the primary coil. Could I use 3/8 flexible copper pipe instead of Litz wire?... which is best?... does copper mass matter?

Kind regards
Luc


Sweet luc. Are they 3D printed ends inside pvc formers?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 01, 2019, 04:56:46 PM
Answer to r2fpl:
if you  look  at  picture from above
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image// (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image//)
you see that at max resonance you  have significant  power  increase  but  at 210khz   and 228kHz  you have quite wide range of frequencies at 75%
of  its maximum resonat  power   and  that energy is  ready  to be used by  drifting  Tesla structure.
You are  not interested  with big power for    your experiment.
But if you  use  single frequency generator  than you  limited  to  just 218.6 kHz  at 100%  of  power
Your Tx  and Rx must not be drifting   more than few hundred Hz.
So spark gap is not efficient but  is convenient  way    to  go.
 Viziv Tower operates at 20kHz/18kHz so  if you say that: most  of Tesla coils are  resonating at 800kHz  it is   only your  own  opinion   shared.
Wesley

When the spark gap works, it acts like a frequency spectrum noise. Do you think that this noise turns into a pure sine wave and it's all in resonance? If this were the case, the antenna adding the frequency range would suffice. That would be great but too optimistic.
The antenna distance depends on the frequency, so to increase the range you need to use the lowest frequencies. Therefore, Viziv Tower will eventually have to operate on Hz or kHz when there will be more transmitting antennas.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2019, 05:56:57 PM
- Will your power transmission work without the top load capacitors in place?

It would have to be tested to confirm but I guess the results would be like removing C in an LC tank circuit. Would it still work without C?

- If the top terminal is one plate of a capacitor, where or what is the second plate?

That's an interesting question!...to which brings another question. Must a capacitor have 2 physical plates to qualify or even function as capacitance?

- How do capacitors work?

I'm no expert but I think it's an electrostatic charge that clings to the surface of a dielectric material.

btw, for the record, I am not an EE (and I don't believe I've ever claimed to be).

Thanks for your honesty. I must of assumed you were an EE because of your knowledge and certainty on the subject you've displayed over the years. 

Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 01, 2019, 06:04:05 PM
Are they 3D printed ends inside pvc formers?

No, I cut those by hand from 1/2" PVC board from Home Depot.

Cheers
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gyulasun on October 01, 2019, 11:16:51 PM
3.3kHz sound about like the frequency of my meter. Listen to the (below) video again which I purposely brought the camera mic close to the meter and you can clearly hear it. You can download this free audio spectrum analyzer http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html (http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html) to find the peak frequency.

https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM (https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM)


Today the original grounding rod I measured with the impedance meter is 340 Ohms and the second one is 640 Ohms

Regards
Luc
Hi Luc,
Thanks for the link on the audio spectrum analyzer and for the ground impedance measurements. 
So much change in the sandy soil conductivity one would not know without instruments or without appropiate measurements and it surely changes with frequency too.

Gyula
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 01, 2019, 11:24:48 PM
#69:
instead 2 plates also equivalent : 2 coils
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 02, 2019, 01:00:27 AM
subiect:SLOW WAVE
reason:- slow wave can explain why Tariel Kapanadze  coil is so small
-make Tesla coil smaller even though the frequency  for given 1/4 y is very low

source:
http://www.padrak.com/vesperman/A_Technical_Analysis_of_Tesla%27s_Extra_Coil_6.24.14.pdf (http://www.padrak.com/vesperman/A_Technical_Analysis_of_Tesla%27s_Extra_Coil_6.24.14.pdf)

factors making Tesla coil electrically small yet still performing:

-slow wave
-CW and CCW winding
- resonant cavities/ half rings ( this part is controversial to some of you even if it was  explained by Dr Corum)

stored
:
here and in https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539447/#msg539447 (https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539447/#msg539447)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: poynt99 on October 02, 2019, 01:14:17 AM
It would have to be tested to confirm but I guess the results would be like removing C in an LC tank circuit. Would it still work without C?

That's an interesting question!...to which brings another question. Must a capacitor have 2 physical plates to qualify or even function as capacitance?

I'm no expert but I think it's an electrostatic charge that clings to the surface of a dielectric material.

Thanks for your honesty. I must of assumed you were an EE because of your knowledge and certainty on the subject you've displayed over the years. 

Kind regards
Luc
I doubt the TC would work that well without the top-load capacitor. The question was intended to foster contemplation on the matter. What about a single stand-alone TC? Certainly the top-load "capacitor" does not comprise both plates of a capacitor? Then what could be the other plate?

Of course a capacitor must have two "plates", otherwise it is not a capacitor. Once again, what might constitute the second plate when it comes to a TC?

The dielectric. Hmm, what exactly is that? Does a capacitor need one to have capacitance?

Suppose the top-load of a TC is only one half of the capacitor? Suppose in the scenario in which you have two TC's situated and connected as you do, might each top-load plate constitute one plate of a common capacitor, and the ether (air) between them the dielectric? Might such a case represent a conventional closed circuit?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 02, 2019, 04:29:13 AM
#74 : a capacitor is also called in german Kondensator
" Capacitor" translated
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formel-sammlung.de%2Fformel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formel-sammlung.de%2Fformel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html)
Original in german: Kondensator
https://www.formel-sammlung.de/formel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html (https://www.formel-sammlung.de/formel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html)

  a capacitor/Kondensator does not be based by min. 2 " plates" but by min. 2 electrodes and a dielectric space.

         the " plates" as surface can exist as foils or coils.

        https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=WO&NR=2009154492A3&KC=A3&FT=D# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=WO&NR=2009154492A3&KC=A3&FT=D#)       
         turned coils + insulation   as capacitor/Kondensator

       
        representing an alternative to these band foils capacitor/Kondensator  here

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040226&CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040226&CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1#)

       Function : Blindleistung/ reactive power to Wirkleistung/ active power by Ampere-turns modulation ( ~ RPM)

       magnetic field ( streng) x magnetic flux
       x 1/2 positive half period + 1/2 negative half period excitation by frequency

       frequency barrier : resistance,permissivity,Currie-temperature


       capacitor/Kondensator physically : electro-static magnet ; potential energy to kinetic energy ( push or pull)

        Kondensat ~ Lev Landaus cosmic Aether to Einstein-Bose Kondensat ,"Fluidum"

        https://books.google.pt/books?id=VGd4DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=einstein-bose+kondensat+aether&source=bl&ots=alcw4Vs_45&sig=ACfU3U1jMWFZcAqdVz4cXv9s0GZ_hRYmmw&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj77q7oy_zkAhUN4BoKHbbRCh4Q6AEwC3oECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=einstein-bose%20kondensat%20aether&f=false
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 02, 2019, 04:22:57 PM
Looped system: https://youtu.be/NogGKkxB1NE
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 03, 2019, 03:09:38 AM
Looped system: https://youtu.be/NogGKkxB1NE (https://youtu.be/NogGKkxB1NE)
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539474/#msg539474
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 03, 2019, 04:35:20 AM
I doubt the TC would work that well without the top-load capacitor.

I don't know for sure but it looks like this guy did about 50 feet (15 meters) transmission through one wire without the top-load capacitor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)


Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 03, 2019, 10:37:06 AM
I don't know for sure but it looks like this guy did about 50 feet (15 meters) transmission through one wire without the top-load capacitor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)


Regards
Luc

A capacitor is not needed, but a light bulb that has to be matched with impedance is important.

You have two bulbs and each has 75W but they are different in performance. One will glow and the other will not.
Another variant: 230V 75W light bulb switched on and 12V 6W will not work.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 03, 2019, 07:30:16 PM
longitudinal wave and effect Kapanadze. Black is output.

this is animation. If not run please use other browser or save to desktop.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2019, 03:07:33 AM
Hi guys,

Here is a single wire transmission preliminary test (not yet ideal) of my new v2.0 Tesla Coil


Link to video demo: https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU (https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU)


Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on October 04, 2019, 10:03:00 AM
Hi guys,

Here is a single wire transmission preliminary test (not yet ideal) of my new v2.0 Tesla Coil


Link to video demo: https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU (https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU)


Regards
Luc


 :o  as always.  awesome work. Glad you used the 18W lamp :) Did you try TKs circuit on these also? Interested know the difference with your pulsed DC. All the best with the tuning. Adjustable TL height?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: TamasEduard.com on October 04, 2019, 10:24:39 AM
Good People Have you seen my movie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMK0B9ljNrc

www.TamasEduard.com (http://www.TamasEduard.com)

Good job Luc   8)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2019, 03:27:55 PM
Did you try TKs circuit on these also? Interested know the difference with your pulsed DC. All the best with the tuning. Adjustable TL height?

Yes Jimboot, I tried TK's circuit but the pulsed dc circuit is the most efficient because I can fine tune perimeters (frequency & pulse width) to the point where the mosfet stays cool, At 1 Amp it's barely warm but interestingly enough, the heavy wire primary gets warmer then the mosfet.

I haven't yet rigged up the top-capacitance to raise or lower. That will get done next week.

Cheers
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 04, 2019, 05:39:38 PM
Dear  Luc ...Can you try  to feed Tx Tesla Coil with spark gap?
Spark  gap  as heaving  wide spectrum of frequencies can be  regulated in its frequency  response by changing both
the spark gap   distance between electrodes and  Voltage by using Variak( autotransformer)
1.
One  of  examples of    low audiable frequencies resonance  transmitters here:
Quote
The English engineer William Duddell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Duddell) discovered how to make a resonant circuit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_circuit) using a carbon arc lamp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_arc_lamp).
Duddell's "musical arc" operated at audio frequencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_frequencies), and Duddell himself concluded that it was impossible to make
the arc oscillate at radio frequencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies)
so with spark gap it is quite easy  to go from  center having  maximum of amplitude at 15kHz to  500kHz.
2.
example of  Tx using Tesla Coil at:
-range at center of e.g ~250kHz
-lower  edge ~20kHz
-upper edge of ~500kHz
using spark gap connected  to primary   will have its  maximum at 100% of amplitude at 250kHz
and its 75% of amplitude  at its low ~170 kHz  and respectively ~320kHz
3.
-if spark gap distance  between electrodes is  small  the voltage feeding  spark gap can be  small.
-if significant break between pulses  is required than the oldest method  was rotary  mechanical wheel with 4 to 8 contacts  rotating between two
 electrodes of spark gap. or in modern concept it was thiristor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyristor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyristor)
4.
 look at the picture below and curve of   Poulsen's arc  only.
Don't  pay attention  to any other curve on  the  picture.

Quote
Valdemar Poulsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdemar_Poulsen) succeeded in raising the efficiency and frequency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency) to the desired level.
Poulsen's arc could generate frequencies of up to 200 kilohertz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz) and was patented in 1903.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter)

So why do  we need it:
-Tariel  Kapanadze, SR  193, Akula, Ruslan.. in  their  first concept devices  used spark  gap.
-Surface wave in   the  wire coated  with  dielectric  e.g coaxial cable  (Goubau  line)  differs from   interface  e.g   aluminum foil and air
 not  to much.
So once is tried  with one wire energy transmission  from point A  to point B it can be applied  also to interface based  devices.
We need to understand, that science  tends to give  different names to the same phenomena  where  physical processes are alike   
based on slight differences specific to  each  one  of them .
-e.g Goubau  line uses  wire coated with   dielectric and that should be   named  the interface, but it is not.
-two dielectrics differing  with their  dielectric properties   such  as Teflon  and Polyamide  makes interface
- conductive medium such as  aluminum foil  and  air creates  interfaced as well
- lossy conductive  medium  a such  as earth   and air creates interface too
and so on...

The benefit: if   frequency  drift  from main  e.g 250kHz  there is always adjacent frequency   next to it having  enough  of  amplitude to take over and carry on generation at not less than 75% of  max amplitude
so  this was the first   "automatic" frequency  adjustment  system in  year 1900   

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2019, 06:30:36 PM
What about a single stand-alone TC? Certainly the top-load "capacitor" does not comprise both plates of a capacitor? Then what could be the other plate?

Your questions are based on your mindset that capacitance needs two physical plates to qualify as a capacitor. It does not. However, if you want to use capacitance in modern day electronic circuits, then yes, you need two plates.
In the case of a TC there's a electrostatic field that builds up between the secondary coil surface and the top capacitance surface. They mutually interact without physical termination (plates).

Of course a capacitor must have two "plates", otherwise it is not a capacitor.

Fact is, capacitance does not need two plates to exist or even discharge. There is no plate in the ionosphere and charges interact (lightning) all the time.
A balloon has no plates and can be charged or discharged. So I consider it a capacitor.
Plates can be used as an electrical conduit if one wishes to terminate a charge (capacitance) at a specific location and I guess that's when you consider it a capacitor.

Once again, what might constitute the second plate when it comes to a TC?

I can guess you want me to say that each Tesla coil top capacitance makes a two plate capacitor but that's your belief not mine.

The dielectric. Hmm, what exactly is that? Does a capacitor need one to have capacitance?

No, a dielectric is not a must since air capacitors exist but their capacitance possess the smallest values. The more air space between plates the smaller the capacitance value. So 95% of the capacitors used in electronics have a dielectric material of some kind.

Suppose the top-load of a TC is only one half of the capacitor? Suppose in the scenario in which you have two TC's situated and connected as you do, might each top-load plate constitute one plate of a common capacitor, and the ether (air) between them the dielectric? Might such a case represent a conventional closed circuit?

I suppose if one had the TC lined up and in close proximity one may conclude it could be a conventional closed loop circuit but the more I pursue it and further push the possibilities like in my latest video demo the less it's supporting your theory.

Here is the latest video if you missed it: https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU (https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU)

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 04, 2019, 07:18:08 PM
Your questions are based on your mindset that capacitance needs two physical plates to qualify as a capacitor. It does not. However, if you want to use capacitance in modern day electronic circuits, then yes, you need two plates.
In the case of a TC there's a electrostatic field that builds up between the secondary coil surface and the top capacitance surface. They mutually interact without physical termination (plates).
Fact is, capacitance does not need two plates to exist or even discharge. There is no plate in the ionosphere and charges interact (lightning) all the time.
A balloon has no plates and can be charged or discharged. So I consider it a capacitor.
Plates can be used as an electrical conduit if one wishes to terminate a capacitance at a specific location and I guess that's when you consider it a capacitor.
I can guess you want me to say that each Tesla coil top capacitance makes a two plate capacitor but that's your belief not mine.
No, a dielectric is not a must since air capacitors exist but their capacitance possess the smallest values. The more air space between plates the smaller the capacitance value.
So 95% of the capacitors used in electronics have a dielectric material of some kind.
I suppose if one had the TC lined up and in close proximity one may conclude it could be a conventional closed loop
circuit but the more I pursue it and further push the possibilities like in my latest video demo the less it's supporting your theory.
Well  I have problem with your  answer:
Everything in nature needs a  balance.
Top  Capacitor has  difference  of potential  between  Earth and itself
Top  Capacitor  has  difference of potential  between any structure that is less  positively charged .
Top  Capacitor   is just one plate   that is charged against something  that it could be refereed to.


The  ionosphere  is   verified in its potential  against  the opposite of its  sign in charge and  that is Earth.
There is no such thing like one single charge in space  with no "opposites"
Charge  is an "elevation." in general means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge)
In atomic structure  the  electrons heaving  higher charge are  more  far from nuclei.
And these electrons occupies   higher orbit in  the electron cloud.
changing  the charge to higher  makes them  to    leave the atom  and  that is the basic of electric current flow.
If something is  elevated  in anything, solids liquids, altitude   it is  always  measured against something.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/find-the-magnitude-and-sign-of-the-point-charge-at-the-origin.225276/

 (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/find-the-magnitude-and-sign-of-the-point-charge-at-the-origin.225276/)
The earth can be considered as a single-conductor capacitor. It can also be considered in combination with a charged layer
of the atmosphere, the ionosphere, as a spherical capacitor with two plates, the surface of the earth being the negative plate.
The ionosphere is at a level of about 70km, and the potential difference between earth and ionosphere is about 350000V.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-earths-capacitance.655604/

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 04, 2019, 07:28:37 PM
#85
[ 0078] [ 0079]
http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=U1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=8234842&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 04, 2019, 11:40:58 PM
I have problem with your  answer

Maybe because my answers are only addressing a specific conversation between poynt99 and myself and are not to be taken as a general view.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I just don't understand how it fits with our conversation, so please allow me to be specific.


What ponynt99 has been saying (which you did not specifically address) is how the transfer of power is taken place between Tesla Coils.


poynt99 is convinced the transfer of power is taking place between the single wire and TC top capacitance linking together (2 plate capacitor) through the ground to complete the current return path.


I conclude the power is being all transmitted through the single wire between each TC.
The TC top capacitance are single plate capacitor and not linked in any way.


Which way do you agree it works?... if you don't agree with either then please explain in a simple and specific way as I did.


Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 05, 2019, 12:40:55 AM
in  regards to
Quote
#1capacitance does not need two plates to exist or even discharge.
Quote
#2 A balloon has no plates and can be charged or discharged. So I consider it a capacitor.
Short answer:
add#1  two  plates are  required
add#2  balloon is just one of plates( point of charge)

Long Answer: capacitance is the property  of capacitor and it doesn't exist without capacitor.
-coil has capacitance  as reactive component of impedance and that is perfectly normal to say  that  coil  is the "coil-capacitor"
-piece of wire on  the table connected to nothing has capacitance  as reactive component of its own impedance
 and that is perfectly normal to say  that  coil  is the "coil-capacitor" and Yes it can resonate.

All depends from value of its reactive capacitive component : capacitive reactance  at given   frequency.
By  that the  vertical dipole antenna in your car  can receive  FM radio stations  if it is  in resonance,that means the two  of dipole  antenna reactive  components
the
-inductive reactance
and
-CAPACITIVE REACTANCE
CANCELS ITSELF AS THEY ARE EQUAL IN MAGNITUDE-but opposite   one to another
the  only  what is left at that point is  resistive  component   that exists  all the  time despite the fact of us dealing with DC  or AC.
So again :
Such  a condition  is called resonance.start to watch from here  https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=142
Resonance can exist in  both the parallel  resonance  circuit  and series  resonance circuit,  even  if we deal with  wire on  the table not connected  to anything.
and  it experiences both the parallel  and  series resonance however never at the same time and at the same frequency.
It can have also series/parallel  combination of resonance but that  is extreme  case  so  forget it.
 
Example:
It resonates if its  length is equal  to conditions causing resonance  (e.g 1/4y)
Coil has increased   capacitive component, due to wind  to  wind space or diameter of  wire/foil used.
Typical foil capacitor is two  or more  coils and its capacitive component  for AC is significantly higher than its  inductive  component.
If you were to connect each  of the singular coils of that foil  capacitor into separate circuit you  will  get 1:1 transformer with  no core  and  separated  by  insulating wax  paper 
( electrolytic capacitors  are  excluded  from that  explanation)

So the bottom line is that if you charge  one side  of capacitor this charge will always have  vector of force at given direction.
balloon will always have charge  that is  refereed to earth or to  any closer body of lesser or   opposite sign.
==============================================================================
Quote
poynt99 is convinced the transfer of power is taking place between the single wire and TC top capacitance which are linking together to complete the current return path (2 plate capacitor)
Closed circuit is only required   when you deal with   DC  or AC  but not when you deal  with EM wave.
In regular transmitter : You may transmit energy into an antenna and than to Far Field   when you  first resonate than radiate and never reverse.
In regular  transmitter ( not Tesla  Coil  with TC in  our  case ):
 after you radiated energy, you can switch OFF  the  transmitter  and  EM wave  will  travel   forever till totally dissipates   due to  losses

However it is different story with :
1. Zenneck Wave or surface wave  in  the  interface.and it acts as  said    right below
2. In case of EM wave  in  Goubau  line or in interface
when  you  transmit you have  surface  wave in the  interface or Goubau  dielectric coated wire
When you stop to  transmit  you  have nothing there.
=============================================================================
Quote
I conclude the power is being all transmitted through the single wire between each TC
.
That is correct.
=============================================================================
Quote
The TC top capacitance are single plate capacitor and not linked in any way.
The top capacitor is ( one of plates  of capacitor)the part of electrical circuit of  the single structure of  that particular Tesla coil acting  as transmitter.
The rules of closed circuit applies only to that Tx
However since Tx Rx structure as one  is  reactive in its  nature the  impedance match between Tx and Rx is required
When you change  anything in Rx  that  makes impedance match non existing than you are  causing  the Tx  to suffer.
That moment has nothing to do with closed path of closed circuit.
when there  is  no impedance match  you have bad SWR or VSWR to be exact. The reflected  EM wave from detuned Rx is bouncing back  to  the  Tx
and it may cause its damage or its  generator damage.
Impedance  match at  Rx site is achieved by all components of Rx including the load

That is  one of major problems of Viziv trying to commercially use surface wave known as  Zenneck wave  in the interface  air/earth (also known  as lossy dielectric and  dielectric interface)

 Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 05, 2019, 01:31:38 AM
The top capacitor is the part of electrical circuit of  the single structure of  that particular Tesla coil acting  as transmitter.
The rules of closed circuit applies only to that Tx
However since Tx Rx structure as one  is  reactive in its  nature the  impedance match between Tx and Rx is required
When you change  anything in Rx  that  makes impedance match non existing that you are  causing  the Tx  to suffer.
That moment has nothing to do with closed path of closed circuit.
when there  is  no impedance match  you have bad SWR or VSWR to be exact. The reflected  EM wave from detuned Rx is bouncing back  to  the  Tx
and it may cause its damage or its  generator damage.


Just to be clear, in my tests, the Tesla Coils wireless power transmission possibility or properties is not used (bypassed) by the single wire connected to the bottom secondary wire of each coil.
I believe the distance between Tx and Rx could be miles apart and still transfer the same power if theoretically I had an ideally shielded wire. I wish I had 1000 feet of this wire to test its capabilities.

Regards
Luc

Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 05, 2019, 01:42:19 AM
Not I must disagree.
first don't confuse single wire  transmission with  single wire and earth  return.( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line) )
Quote
At the end of the 19th century, Nikola Tesla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla) demonstrated that by using an
electrical network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_network) tuned to resonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance) it was possible to transmit electric power using only a
single conductor, with no need for a return wire. This was spoken of as the "transmission of electrical energy
through one wire without return".

single wire with earth return  is  closed circuit No EM.
We are not interested with  that.

Single wire  Goubau is that what we  are talking ABOUT .
Please read whole article  from  Wikipedia  (link  above)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: poynt99 on October 05, 2019, 01:54:53 AM
I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I just don't understand how it fits with our conversation, so please allow me to be specific.
I agree with Wesley also, and Wesley brought up the inferences I was hoping you would make.
Quote
poynt99 is convinced the transfer of power is taking place between the single wire and TC top capacitance linking together (2 plate capacitor) through the ground to complete the current return path.
Not actually. What I proposed is that the circuit is formed by the connecting wire, and the air capacitor, which itself is formed between the two top-load plates and the air. Ground is not necessarily in play here. I was hoping I wouldn't need to make an electrical equivalent drawing, but here it is.
Quote
The TC top capacitance are single plate capacitor and not linked in any way.
What leads you to the conclusion that they are not linked?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 05, 2019, 02:17:10 AM
The system   shown on the picture above will work as  single wire with  return but this is not what we are  interested with
However this  particular concept needs to have impedance match as well.
It is similar to regular Tx with coaxial  cable as transmission line. Usually  75  or 50 Ohm.
or
to one of  few concepts  of single wire with earth return
and it is also reactive system even if I said  in  post above  that :
Quote
single wire with earth return  is  closed circuit No EM.
It can but it doesn't have to be reactive.
that depends from : How the system  is  made.

The answer is in details.

1.  single wire with return =( is also the same  as) single wire with earth return
2.  single wire with earth return  as  closed circuit no EM
There two are  two different systems:
the #1 is usually reactive system =( is also the same  as)  Tx with  coax cable and load matching impedance  of transmission line of that Tx
the #2 is typical electric circuit   and requires to be electrically closed circuit
==================================================================================
In reactive systems there are 3  major components to be  matched :
1.Traditional  system  with traditional Tx
a. impedance of Tx e.g 50 Ohm must be matched by
b. transmission  line e.g coax cable 50 Ohm and than
c. impedance  of  the load e.g antenna or lightbulb  or resistor  must be 50 Ohm to  match  impedance of transmission line (  the coax)

2. Tesla coil  with Goubau line  ( the dielectric coated wire)
a.   impedance of Tx                                               e.g 50 Ohm or whatever is the  impedance  must be  matched by
b.  transmission  line e.g  Goubau  line                     e.g 50 Ohm or whatever is the  impedance  and than
c.  impedance of the load e.g Rx-Tesla Coil with load e.g 50 Ohm or whatever is the  impedance must match that of transmission  line
Again please understand  that this (or any impedance) has not much to do with resistance of the wire  used as Goubau  line.
And Resistance is  only one  of 3 elements of  impedance.
Impedance is also measured  in Ohms 

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 05, 2019, 03:37:45 AM
the some of examples of impedance matching related  to post above:
1. https://www.hobbyradio.se/en/eh/ehbenchtest_en.html (https://www.hobbyradio.se/en/eh/ehbenchtest_en.html)  ( not so much important)
2.traditional  impedance matching with three components :
-  Tx  ( RF amplifier)
-  Transmission  line
-  antenna ( or resistive load/ dummy load)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 05, 2019, 06:39:56 AM
Not actually. What I proposed is that the circuit is formed by the connecting wire, and the air capacitor, which itself is formed between the two top-load plates and the air. Ground is not necessarily in play here.

Actually, exactly as I wrote and you originally proposed. You're just changing your mind from what you originally wrote and dropping the ground path idea.
Here's what you originally wrote.
circuit is completed via the path from the top capacitance of the TC's to earth ground.
A Faraday shield around the RX coil won't shield the effect because essentially the earth is being used as the return conductor.
The shield may even improve the effect as it could increase the conductivity from the RX top capacitor to earth ground.
Sounds to me like you were saying earth ground was the return conductor?
So what about the Faraday cage now that you changed your mind about the ground being used as the return conductor. Would your new theory of air capacitive coupling still work through a Faraday cage?

What leads you to the conclusion that they are not linked?

The fact that an air capacitor looses most of it's capacitance value with increased distance between plates. Just a change of plate distance from 1/32nd of an inch to 1/2 an inch is a huge drop in capacitance, let alone a distance of 50 feet!

I was hoping I wouldn't need to make an electrical equivalent drawing, but here it is.

Thanks for the drawing. I took the liberty to make correction to truly reflect the reality of my device under test so everyone understands what you are now proposing.
I must admit I'm having as much difficulty accepting your newer 50 feet air capacitor distance between TC top cap plates proposal then your previous TC top cap down through earth ground return path.
At least you're out of the ground now and closer to what the Physicist has been entertaining.

BTW, if you or anyone else can think of a test I can do to prove or disprove a 50 feet distance between plates air capacitor is capable of completing a current path (15 watts transfer) between Tx and Rx I'm all ears and ready to learn something I think is not possible.

Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 05, 2019, 11:04:13 AM
That's how energy is transferred through one wire.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 06, 2019, 12:02:17 AM
I  made it even easier
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 06, 2019, 12:26:11 AM
the same but  using foil instead  of wire
And now we dealing with one  of forms of interface
made from;
-  foil ( copper or aluminum)  the  conductive medium and 
-  air  the dielectric medium
in  picture  where  it says connecting wire there is  no connecting wire  and instead there is  foil
black arrows are indicating that you can tune the device by lifting up and down  TC ( Top Capacitor)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 06, 2019, 12:45:22 AM
The same but  using earth the lossy conductive medium instead of  foil
in  picture  where  it says connecting wire there is  no connecting wire  and instead there is  earth
black arrows are indicating that you can tune the device by lifting up and down  TC ( Top Capacitor)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 06, 2019, 01:26:19 AM
The same but  using earth the lossy conductive medium instead of  foil
in  picture  where  it says connecting wire there is  no connecting wire  and instead there is  earth
Wesley

Yes, I did that test with 10ft deep x 3/4 inch pure copper grounding rods and only 15 feet apart and got zero watt transfer.
I'm quite sure that's when poynt99 changed his mind about the ground being a conductive medium for the TC top caps.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe ground can be used as a conductor but in some parts of the world where the ground is mostly sand, the cost to create a low impedance ground could be very costly, maybe $5k or more.

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 06, 2019, 01:33:07 AM
I explained quite  detailed conditions for impedance match.
apart from that you  need:
- vertical  polarization
- your wave must be in TM mode
- right Brewster angle( wave tilt)
- and possibly  phase match ( may  not be critical)
Your videos  shows small fixed   Top Capacitors with no ability to  move up/down
Your distance was 15ft  try  60ft and your TEM changed to TM mode might be already in the  interface

This  is the right size of  Top capacitor and distance from  the earth   or foil:
D= or > 4d
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950)
But that does'n  yet give you the  right height.
Moving TC  up  down makes  the tuning .
===============================================================
Everything is  in  my posts from  above  and in my video.
I  suggest to try  now foil instead of wire next you can try   air earth  interface 
keep  the  distance  at 60ft if possible if not than 25 ft  is  OK  too.
The  frequency  used at test  below was 27MHz
But you can use any frequency of your choice below 54MHz


Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: d3x0r on October 06, 2019, 07:42:33 AM
isn't foil just a conductor?
could you put the foil through a water bath? :) 
I mean to look-up - are tesla capacitors actually an inner post and outer plate?  or are they just two sets of bottles with a single conductor in each?  With no current exchange between the bottles?

(I wish there was a fixed point font - code or pre)
<pre>
  +----   +      -  -----+
| | |                       | | |
| | |                       | | |
\___/                     \___/
</pre>


---
I made this: https://gitter.im/FreedomCollective/PureEnergy  I'm @d3x0r there too   It's more like slack/;discord, but less noisy because it's for sharing project information.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 06, 2019, 03:47:07 PM
Maybe a bit too early but this will explain a lot in next steps :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 06, 2019, 04:17:33 PM
Maybe a bit too early but this will explain a lot in next steps :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg)
Yes this video  is amazing thank  you for that.
This is a lot to talk  about it but I'm on something  now
I'll be back...soon
Wesley 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 06, 2019, 05:39:26 PM
Just as in video posted earlier.
Transmission line is my tesla coil ( top load and secondary coil ) at 1/4 wavelenght of 480 feet  and resonance frequency of 512 kHz.
Apparently my cheap scope  can picture this idea only when feed with square wave and i lack skill to observe sine wave this way. 
thank you
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 06, 2019, 08:32:10 PM
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKE (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359)
wiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359)
Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359)  i
t will redirect you to
https://www.biodyncorp.com/tools/450/impedance.html (https://www.biodyncorp.com/tools/450/impedance.htmlMechanism) - this link alone may not work  try  upper one.

Important for:
- Luc
-any other builder  of the Tesla  coil and  for Tesla coil Tx  Rx energy  transmission system form point A to B
- Tesla coil extracting energy  from Schumann waveguide builder

Mechanism explained in this link shows interaction of my body with Lightbulb  I was holding in my hand .
I was not touching  metal contact of the lightbulb.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=416 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=416)
My body reacted as part of electrical circuit  and it was( reactively) - capacitively coupled to the lightbulb

And now forget about me and my body
Just take it as solution  that can be applied to any resonance circuit so 
- the same mechanism can be applied to our Tesla coil.

Our goal is to  create TEM in TM mode
and we are using  the same elements of impedance:
( capacitive and inductive reactances and resistance )
to provide impedance match between Tx and Rx.
Or to  be more accurate what is the  relation of the:
phase angle and  resonant circuit  reactive components  XL and  Xc
The two of the components makes X(  the reactance)
The X and R(  resistance of the conductor) makes Z(  the  impedance)
That Z can be:
- our  body Z
or
- our wire in our coil Z
and/or
- our primary or  secondary  HV coil
and/or
- our primary or  secondary  HV coil and Top Capacitor
or
- any  of elements  of  the structure that in  summary makes  the total impedance of
Tx system or Tx/Rx pair connected  by use of interface

Types  of interface:
-e.g
Goubau  line uses  wire coated with   dielectric and that should be   named  the interface, but it is not.
- two dielectrics differing  with their  dielectric properties   such  as Teflon  and Polyamide  makes interface
- conductive medium such as  aluminum foil  and  air creates  interfaced as well
- lossy conductive  medium a such  as earth   and air creates interface too
and so on...

more is here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539517/#msg539517 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539517/#msg539517)

We also need to provide condition to our Tx where  the
two components of impedance cancel each other and our HV part
of Tesla Coil will be in resonance by that.

So simply by looking at the graph you can see how Phase angle  is responsible for other elements of impedance listed here (and/or  reverse).
look at  the  picture  below read everything  but don't read  words "human body"
and that explains what is  going on in Tesla coil
 I hope that is  easy to understand.

So why do we need it?
Answer:
This is mechanism of Tuning of our Tx and Rx
Wesley


Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 07, 2019, 01:47:00 PM
Two coaxial cable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4TVefHjk-U
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2019, 03:44:45 PM
Two coaxial cable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4TVefHjk-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4TVefHjk-U)

Witajcie.

Nie jestem pewien, jaką część testu uważasz za interesującą?
Nie widzę, która to jest niebieska sonda, a która żółta sonda na oscyloskopie.
Zauważyłem 180 stopniowe przesunięcie fazowe pomiędzy wejściem i wyjściem, kiedy fala sinusoidalna jest powtarzana.
Proszę napisać po polsku, żebym mógł tłumaczyć.

Dziękuję

Hello

I'm not sure what part of your test you find interesting?
I can't see which is the blue probe or yellow probe on the oscilloscope.
I noticed a 180 degrees phase shift between input and output when sine wave is repeated.
Please write in Polish so I can translate.

Thank you
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 07, 2019, 04:26:37 PM
A 180 degree shift for the same signal is interesting when TWO wires are connected.
See that the yellow output amplitude is greater than the input. You will only see this when you match the resistor.
I am not saying anything yet.


Yellow - ch1  (left side on video) OUTPUT
Blue - ch2 (right side on video)  + SG

PIC: (square, sine)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2019, 04:54:05 PM
A 180 degree shift for the same signal is interesting when two wires are connected.
See that the yellow output amplitude is greater than the input. You will only see this when you match the resistor.
I am not saying anything yet.


Yellow - ch1  (left side on video) OUTPUT
Blue - ch2 (right side on video)  + SG

PIC: (meander, sine)

Dzięki za zdjęcia oscyloskopu.
Teraz jest bardzo jasne, co pokazujesz.
Czy pierwszy oscyloskop obrazuje wejście fali kwadratowej, a drugi oscyloskop obrazuje wejście fali sinusoidalnej?
Czy jest jakaś różnica, czy kabel koncentryczny jest cewką czy nie?
Dziękujemy za udostępnienie

Uwzględnia
Luc

Thanks for the oscilloscope pictures.
Now it is very clear what you are showing.
Is the first oscilloscope pictures a square wave input and the second oscilloscope pictures a sine wave input?
Is there a difference if the coaxial cable is a coil or not?
Thank you for sharing

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 07, 2019, 05:42:33 PM

1.Is the first oscilloscope pictures a square wave input and the second oscilloscope pictures a sine wave input?
2.Is there a difference if the coaxial cable is a coil or not?



1. YES  (square, sine)
2. no coil.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 07, 2019, 06:47:17 PM
Difference measurement with LED

https://youtu.be/PJwnof1eLwU
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 07, 2019, 07:33:16 PM
From Wesley: Special  Thank you speedy125

PART#1
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)


Marconi’s early experiments,
ABSTRACT:
This paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
 
Quote
wireless energy was successfully and safely transmitted and harvested over 2 miles of a hilly area by grounding
and lengthening monopole antenna as a way to reduce
the aperture size of the antenna. Marconi concluded from his first breakthrough experiment that his antenna
 radi-ated vertically polarized radio waves that could travel distances much longer than other conventional counter-
parts. Later, he even achieved non-line-of-sight (NLOS) propagation of  wireless  power  across  the  Atlantic

Quote
Trapped surface wave is an evanescent wave propagating by successive internal reflections due to an incident electromagnetic wave
 striking at an interface with an angle greater than the critical angle

Quote
Trapped surface wave is an evanescent wave propagating by successive internal reflections due to an incident
 electromag-netic wave striking at an interface with an angle greater than the critical angle.

So that says  that angle can be bigger  than instead  of statement of  Corum Bros  that angle  of  wave tilt in significantly  critical
and must be  exact.  This information   sufficiently  simplifies  our study  and experiments
However  Dr King stays  that:
 This lateral wave( another name  for Surface  Wave although some scholars  see  the differences  between the  two)
 is a
Quote
vertically polarized electromagnetic wave on the top surface of the ground as a result of an incident electromagnetic
wave striking the air-ground interface from below at exactly the critical angle

Quote
Interface between two different dielectric media, the critical angle is only applicable to the dielectric medium with a higher refractive index.To excite this lateral wave, it is logical to bury the lower end of transmitting and receiving aerials into the dielectric
layer with a higher refractive index in much the same way as grounding a monopole antenna in Tesla’s or Marconi’s work [2], [16]–[18].
In fact, the vertically polarized radio wave as referred by Marconi or ground current referred by Nikola Tesla is most likely equivalent to
the lateral wave referred by King, Tamir and many other researchers in the field of wireless energy harvesting.

Quote
suspended layer of dielectric material can be modeled as a 4-layered stratified ground with imperfectly conducting ground.
The stratified ground with imperfectly conducting ground can support propagation of both trapped surface waves and lateral waves

The existence of trapped surface waves is possible if and only if the suspended layer of dielectric material is sufficiently thick,
perhaps, thicker than half of the wavelength.
To rule out the possibility of trapped surface waves being present to a significant extent,
we have chosen to study the suspended dielectric layer with a thickness substantially smaller than half of the wavelength.
Examples of this stratified ground with imperfectly conducting bottom plane
include a table top, an iron-reinforced concrete wall or any suspended dielectric layer coated with an oxide.

Conclusions from part#1
Conclusion#1 from part#1
Ground should be layered that  means:
e.g:
-sand
-gravel 
-rock
Conclusion#2 from part#1
- that could  possibly  explain why  in Kazakhstan Akula device works and  not  in Riga Latvia
but
- Ruslan device   works in Riga  Latvia at another  location than Akulas device  in Riga Latvia  and  doesn't  work in Hamburg Germany.


Discription of  the picture below:

This dielectric configuration is similar to the 4-layered ground that has already been considered in other studies [14], [20],
 with
an exception that the bottom layer in the present work is a layer of air with an extremely small conductivity.
The red line on the picture shows  both :
- the  angle  of wave tilt
-  the surface wave  named as : lateral   wave in the interface.

Note:  lateral wave and surface wave are  explained as differing in properties by some   scientists  however  for simplicity,  we 
           omitted  such controversies in regards to this type  of TEM in TM  mode.   
 
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 07, 2019, 10:26:53 PM
Difference measurement with LED

https://youtu.be/PJwnof1eLwU (https://youtu.be/PJwnof1eLwU)

Zauważyłem, że w tym filmie nie ma przesunięcia fazowego o 180 stopni!
Czy znalazłeś błąd w pierwszym filmie i teraz jest on poprawny (brak przesunięcia fazowego)?

Uwzględnia
Luc

I noticed there is no 180 degrees phase shift in this video!
Did you find an error in first video and now it's correct (no phase shift)?

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 07, 2019, 10:54:17 PM
IMPORTANT!!
PART#2
of:
speedy125  link:

This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)

From  part  #1  we have learned   that earth as    multilayered part of interface  is suggested.
that is  in line  with Marconi’s early experiments,
the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
Quote
This dielectric configuration is similar to the 4-layered ground that has already been considered in other studies [14], [20],
with an exception that the bottom layer in the present work is a layer of air with an extremely small conductivity.
The relative permittivities of layers 0, 1, 2 and 3 are respectively ε0,ε1,ε2 and ε3, where ε0=ε3=1.
The thicknesses of layer 0 and layer 3 is assumed to be infinity.
The distance between the transmitting antenna and the receiving antenna is denoted by  r. Layer 1 and layer 2, respectively,
have a finite thickness l1 and l 2. The length of the vertically mounted[/font]dipole is of approximately 1/4 -wavelength of the chosen operating frequency.
The apparent pathway of a lateral wave is highlighted in red.
As shown in Fig. 1, the deeper the dipole is submerged underneath the top surface of layer 1, the more energy
radiated out from the base of the vertical dipole will be striking the interface between air and layer 1 at critical angle
and the more energy will be converted into a lateral wave

-Transverse magnetic field (of TM)  mode  in the multi-layered ground can be modeled infrequency domain.
- dielectric layer can be suspended in mid-air
That alone corresponds  with  my   experiment here:
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=409 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=409)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 07, 2019, 11:17:13 PM
PART#3
of:
speedy125  link:

This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)

From  part  #1  we have learned   that
-earth as    multilayered part of interface  is suggested.
-that is  in line  with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at  picture  representing multilayered  interface
-  we  had the first look at wave behavior while  "loading" into  interface

From  part  #2  we have learned:
- the  differences  between  regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested   ground  as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave  in  the  interface  must  be  in TM  mode
==============================================================

To support propagation of trapped surface waves, a dielectric layer should have a thickness at least half wavelength.
This means that there will not be any significant contribution of energy to the receiving end due to a trapped surface wave
if the suspended dielectric layer is too thin.
. If an incoming electromagnetic wave strikes at either interface of an extremely thin dielectric layer at critical angle,
the electromagnetic energy will be forced to propagate along the upper and lower interface in the form of a lateral wave
with an extremely high current density
Since the lateral wave from the interface between layer 3 and layer 2 has to propagate through a much longer and more attenuated pathway before reaching the receiver,
the contribution of the branch cut k3 to the receiving end can be assumed to be negligible although this assumption can be invalid if the suspended dielectric layer is too thin.
Note: for layers look at picture here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174186/image// (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174186/image//)
or at Part#1
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 07, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
From Wesley: Special  Thank you speedy125

PART#4
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)


From  part  #1  we have learned   that
-earth as    multilayered part of interface  is suggested.
-that is  in line  with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at  picture  representing multilayered  interface
-  we  had the first look at wave behavior while  "loading" into  interface

From  part  #2  we have learned:
- the  differences  between  regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested   ground  as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave  in  the  interface  must  be  in TM  mode

From  part  #3  we have learned:
-  that  the thickness of both layers  of the  interface is expected  to be 1/4 of  the  wavelength Y
============================================================

V. HARVESTING ENERGY FROM LATERAL WAVES BYDIRECT VOLTAGE MULTIPLICATION
In one of Tesla’s lectures [18], Tesla has highlighted the fact that power transmission
by one-wire transmission line is equivalent to wireless power transfer. Although the link between
power transfer by one wire and wireless power transmission has not been well explored in other research literature,
it was found in a recently published work [21] that the energy from a time-varying electromagnetic field can be
captured by a one wire transmission without any antenna.
In this work, wireless energy is harvested from lateral waves on the surface of a suspended dielectric layer
using a little known open-ended voltage multiplier.
Fig. below illustrates the schematic diagram of the open-ended voltage multiplier similar to the one proposed in .
This open-ended voltage multiplier has an input terminated by an open-circuited Goubau line.
Goubau line is one-wire transmission line having characteristic impedance very close to the characteristic
impedance of free space.
If the end of the Goubau is left open-circuited, it becomes a monopole antenna which captures ambient electromagnetic field right
on the top surface of the suspended dielectric layer without any other form of antenna.
The voltage sensed by the Goubau line is rectified into at DC voltage using the well-known Avremenko’s diode configuration formed by diodes
D1 and D2 [22], [23]. Thevoltages across D1 and D2 are very limited because each of the diodes has its own maximum forward voltage.
However, before reaching the output, the voltages across D1 and D2 can undergo voltage multiplication by the differential voltage
multiplier formed by diodes D3,D4,D5 and capacitances C1,]C2,C3 and C4.
The output voltage is the sum of the voltages of all the diodes D1-D6.
The fundamental AC voltage across D1 and D2, 2V D, depends on the time-varying electromagnetic field
captured by the Goubau line, which cannot be changed by changing the circuit topology.
However, the AC voltage across each of all other diodes D3-D6 can be force-increased to a maximum of 2VD by introducing the AC shorts formed
by capacitors C1-C4.
All the diodes used in this circuit are assumed to be the same and all the discrete capacitors used in the circuit are assumed to have a capacitance C.
If the parasitic inductance Lp is sufficiently small, then the output voltage can be derived and approximated using the approach given in Appendix I

n is the intrinsic ideality of the diode.
Is is the reverse saturation current of each of the diodes.
nKT/q is the threshold voltage, which is typical 25 mV at room temperature.
f is the operating frequency.
The formula given in (16) assumes that the load resistance is infinitely large.
The last term of (16) also accounts for the frequency dependent effects due to the capacitances in the layout.

The prototypes for the proposed open-ended voltage multiplier have been fabricated on a Rogers Duroid (TM) substrate 4350B
with thickness=1.52mm.
Fig. 2 shows the details of the proposed open-ended voltage multiplier.
The diodes used for fabricating prototypes in this work were SMS7630-093 from Skyworks.
The schematic diagram, the photo of the fabricated prototype and the simulated electric field distribution
at 1.24 GHz are respectively shown in Figs. 2a, 2b and 2c.
The input impedance of the opened voltage multiplier was approximately 400 ohm according to electromagnetic
simulation.
It should be noted that, for the purpose of verifying the design against the simulation,
the output voltages of the proposed voltage multipliers were first measured as a function of frequency
when the input terminals were fed with a 50 ohm microwave power source (E8267D, Agilent Technologies) at 20 dBm.
The measured results together with the results of layout/schematic co-simulation done using Keysight’s Momentum are shown in Fig. 2d.

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 07, 2019, 11:43:24 PM
From Wesley: Special  Thank you speedy125

PART#5
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)


From  part  #1  we have learned   that
-earth as    multilayered part of interface  is suggested.
-that is  in line  with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at  picture  representing multilayered  interface
-  we  had the first look at wave behavior while  "loading" into  interface

From  part  #2  we have learned:
- the  differences  between  regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested   ground  as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave  in  the  interface  must  be  in TM  mode

From  part  #3  we have learned:
-  that  the thickness of both layers  of the  interface is expected  to be 1/4 of  the  wavelength Y

From  part  #4  we have learned:
Basic schematic   of  Avramenko fork and  voltage multiplier   that can be used at any frequency
in association with Goubau line or any other type of interface.
===============================================================================
V. SIMULATED AND MEASURED RESULTS OF BASIC WPT (Wireless Power Transmission)CONFIGURATION
The feasibility of wireless power transfer based on the proposed voltage multipliers has been explored using
the experimental configurations as shown in Figs 3a and 3b. Fig 3a
illustrates an experimental configuration where the transmitted energy is expected to be primarily a lateral wave.
Fig 3b shows an experimental configuration focusing on space waves only.
In either configuration, the transmitting[/font]end is mounted with a base-fed monopole antenna formed by
a planar Goubau line, and the receiving end is vertically
mounted with the proposed open-ended voltage multiplier terminated with a 1M load resistor.
The measured results of this work are shown in Fig. 3c.
Wesley

Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 08, 2019, 12:29:21 AM
 From Wesley: Special  Thank you speedy125
please start reading from here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593)
PART#6
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)


From  part  #1  we have learned   that
-earth as    multilayered part of interface  is suggested.
-that is  in line  with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at  picture  representing multilayered  interface
-  we  had the first look at wave behavior while  "loading" into  interface

From  part  #2  we have learned:
- the  differences  between  regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested   ground  as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave  in  the  interface  must  be  in TM  mode

From  part  #3  we have learned:
-  that  the thickness of both layers  of the  interface is expected  to be 1/4 of  the  wavelength Y

From  part  #4  we have learned:
Basic schematic   of  Avramenko fork and  voltage multiplier   that can be used at any frequency
in association with Goubau line or any other type of interface.

From  part  #5  we have learned:
 SIMULATED AND MEASURED RESULTS OF BASIC WPT (Wireless Power Transmission)CONFIGURATION
We can see from Fig.3b Fig.3c impressive performance   of TM in the interface.
=======================================================
Quote
lateral waves can significantly increase the energy efficiency due to less signal attenuation compared with space waves, therefore,
WPT based on lateral waves can be used for simultaneous charging of the sensor nodes more efficiently
without causing harmful interference to wireless communications.
-this above is another confirmation of expected performance over the regular  EM wave

Quote
In addition to inherent nature of lateral waves for interference reduction, the delivered power by lateral waves canalso
be conveyed on a lower frequency channel
.
Quote
The power can be preferably delivered at a lower frequency,say at any frequency below 500 MHz, where a highly con-centrated lateral wave is easier to form.
-this above is another confirmation of expected performance TM  in the interface at low frequencies.

Quote
delivered power does not impose any interference to the received signal, the energy to be processed by the receiver
at the receiving end can be pre-filtered with a high pass filter. Fig. 5 illustrates this scenario.
-this above is another confirmation of fact that this wave is not  present in Far Field 
The exact  statement  saying  it  is int the article I just must have time to find it
Wesley

     
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 08, 2019, 01:46:03 AM
Summary from all 6 parts:
I did not yet write  it. 
Just  lack of time
but in overall it  kills most if not all of  the skepticism

please start reading from here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593)

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 08, 2019, 02:00:03 AM
Im just looking for some suggestions.

I have in my possession   EIN model 500L .
After reading some posts i find recommendations to use EIN 3200L $$$$$ :( .
 https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg536259/#msg536259
For now ill try to stick to Tesla coil concept and not corums polyphase probe type of structure. ( Unless 500L can be used successfully )
My amp is very low power some 300mW and i wonder if this can be used to switch a transistor 2SC5200  for example.
It should be good for 2-500 mhz but i see a lot of distortion at higher frequency, maybe poor cables.
The goal  is to use signal generator ( variable frequency ) to power a solid state tesla coil in simple way. (2-3 Mhz)
kind of like slayer exciter but variable frequency. 
Any schematics?
Thank you for all the help.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 08, 2019, 02:17:01 AM
It can only be used as preamp.
You need significant power.
But Ham radio TS-2000 can be used at its low 1.8MHz.The prestige Transceiver .
or any other Transceiver.Some of them can be on Ebay for less than $100 or go to Hamfest
Be careful as you at first need to use it at CW short impulses like from electronic Morse Keyer and let it rest.
You may damage it at no time due to  impedance mismatch

SWR meter is needed to most of them.
Note:  use of these transceivers requires FCC license.But you have rights to own it . :)
 
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 08, 2019, 02:19:51 PM
Im just looking for some suggestions.

I have in my possession   EIN model 500L .
After reading some posts i find recommendations to use EIN 3200L $$$$$ :( .
 https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg536259/#msg536259
For now ill try to stick to Tesla coil concept and not corums polyphase probe type of structure. ( Unless 500L can be used successfully )
My amp is very low power some 300mW and i wonder if this can be used to switch a transistor 2SC5200  for example.
It should be good for 2-500 mhz but i see a lot of distortion at higher frequency, maybe poor cables.
The goal  is to use signal generator ( variable frequency ) to power a solid state tesla coil in simple way. (2-3 Mhz)
kind of like slayer exciter but variable frequency. 
Any schematics?
Thank you for all the help.


Why do you need a power amplifier? Each tesla coil is your amplifier and transmitter. As a last resort, you can use the music version of the tesla coil!

for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdhTVwSygqo
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 08, 2019, 04:41:27 PM
That  depends from  what  is your  application.
If you want to send energy  from point  A to  point  B at some distance  than
due to impedance  mismatch it is easy  to  lose  these 300mW
Your signal generator by  itself may  have that power level  of  power  at its  output as  well ....so  what do  you need  the  500 series amplifier for?
In any other case your generator can be  connected to any external  amplifier having much bigger  power at desired frequency and is available on Ebay.
Quote
Each tesla coil is your amplifier and transmitter.
NO   IT IS NOT.
Tesla  coil  is  only changing   voltage   from  low to higher but power level is  never amplified.!!
If you deliver  300MmW to  Tesla coil primary at 1V    where  primary  is 1 wind and  secondary  is 1000  winds  than you will get at secondary  1000V
but overall power will  be 300mW    minus  the  losses.  !!!
Using terminology -  "Voltage amplification"  may  be  not   quite  accurate. 
You  amplifying nothing
You just losing

Basic rule is:
-  The  power at input is always bigger than  power at   output!!!
so  Tesla Coil  as air  coupled  transformer can  be  called "LOSER"
as opposite to "gainer"

In regards to  Tesla Coil being called Transmitter?
Yes it transmits    something....
but that depends from   application
No it
does  not transmit/ doesn't radiate  in  Far filed ....but that depends from   application
 


Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 08, 2019, 04:58:44 PM
The basis of the principle of signal transmission is to generate an RF signal which is a high frequency electromagnetic wave, so why do you think that the Tesla coil itself is not an amplifier, let alone a transmitter? It amplifies by increasing the amplitude or is that not what the amplifiers are about?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 08, 2019, 05:07:46 PM
what the amplifiers are about?


Amplifier:
Quote
electronic device that can increase the power of a signal (a time-varying voltage or current)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier)
Tesla  Coil is never amplifying  power of signal.

Amplification  of  power must be seen  as  done at cost of  someone who is  giving you needed  energy for it.
(and  that can be  your   own pocket when you pay the bill  for electricity)
 the  very concept of free energy is to  find this someone who pays  for it and than  you  pay nothing.
e.g wind,  solar,  thermal, or energy from Schumann waveguide 
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 08, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
This is obvious but I don't think we've understood each other about the word amplifier.
I meant an amplifier in the sense of a power amplifier, e.g. for a music.

Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: onepower on October 08, 2019, 06:03:59 PM
Wesley
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier
Tesla  Coil is never amplifying  power of signal.
Amplification  of  power must be seen  as  done at cost of  someone who is  giving you needed  energy for it.
(and  that can be  your   own pocket when you pay the bill  for electricity)
the  very concept of free energy is to  find this someone who pays  for it and  you  pay nothing.
e.g wind,  solar,  thermal, or energy from Schumann waveguide

Condenser: A capacitor (originally known as a condenser) is a passive two-terminal electrical component used to store energy electrostatically in an electric field.

In the past, the Condenser was also know to be an active component condensing or concentrating an electric fluid. In fact one can still use a wire antenna, condenser, inductor and a rectifier to condense electrical atmospheric energy. Some say this is just a receiver for Hertzian waves however it is also known in the art to be able to condense or concentrate electrical energy like an amplifier. However in the case of the condenser we are not amplifying an Electro-Magnetic signal but separating and concentrating electrical charges as energy.

Passive components are well enough however the real action is in active or dynamic components.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 08, 2019, 07:23:23 PM
This is obvious but I don't think we've understood each other about the word amplifier.
I meant an amplifier in the sense of a power amplifier, e.g. for a music.
Wesley's Answer:
It is  the same for every  amplifier-  the same rules apply.
Read  Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier)
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539621/#msg539621

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 10, 2019, 01:55:16 AM

Why do you need a power amplifier? Each tesla coil is your amplifier and transmitter. As a last resort, you can use the music version of the tesla coil!

for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdhTVwSygqo

Witam Kolege

Cytat z Wiki
Most modern audio amplifiers have a flat frequency response as shown above over the whole audio range of frequencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. This range of frequencies, for an audio amplifier is called its Bandwidth, (BW) and is primarily determined by the frequency response of the circuit.

Wlasnie sprawdzilem jak wyglada uzycie Wzmacaniacza audio Blaupunkt  PCA2120 2x120W 1x300W.
Podlaczylem generator sygnalow i uzylem wylacznie pozytywnej czesci pulsu sinusoidalnego niebedac pewnym czy
to cos dziala na sygnal przemienny czy tez tylko staly w postaci impulsow ( az tyle to nie wiem a szkoda mi tego wzmacniacza, moze w
nastepnym aucie mi pogra jeszcze :) )
Na wyjsciu oscyloskop pokazywal sygnal sinusoidalny a wiec to by moglo calkiem niezle dzialac przy 13-14volt i jakies 10 amper.
Niestety zgodnie z informacjami o wzmacniaczach audio wraz ze wzrostem czestotliwosci tracisz tzw GAIN. Jego mozliwosci wzmocnienia sygnalu znacznie  spadaja powyzej 120khz . A wiec wyciagajac wnioski moge spekulowac ze daloby sie zrobic Tesla coil na podobienstwo Slayer Exciter i kontrolowac czestotliwosc ale tylko na duzym lub bardzo duzym transformatorze ktory ma swoja czestotliwosc rezonansowa
w granicach 100khz i ponizej.
Wlasnie dlatego szukam mozliwosci podlaczenia generatora sygnalow do wzmacniacza ktory bedzie pracowac satysfakcjonujaco w przedziale czestotliwosci radiowych aby transformator Tesli nie byl duzy oraz latwy do zbudowania i szybkiej modyfikacji w razie potrzeby.
Dziekuje za pomysl i pozdrawiam
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 10, 2019, 02:26:33 AM
Luc,

Allow me to ask this:

- Will your power transmission work without the top load capacitors in place?

- If the top terminal is one plate of a capacitor, where or what is the second plate?

- How do capacitors work?

Okay poynt99

Both Tesla Coil top load capacitors are removed and circuit still delivers 7 watts through the single wire to Rx 50 feet away and even outside the concrete block building that Tx is located in.

The power transfer efficiency is not as good since I had to use a lower resonance point of 150kHz for stability compared to 230kHz originally demonstrated.
Without the top capacitance the ideal resonating frequency is much higher, difficult to tune and I fried a few mosfet's trying to get it.
So I had to settle with 150kHz. However, it still should be fine to prove the point that the circuit has not been using the top caps to complete the current path.
So how is it completing the current path?

Link to video demo: https://youtu.be/DzmC86vFzBU (https://youtu.be/DzmC86vFzBU)

Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 10, 2019, 02:33:24 AM
Going back to single wire power transmission .
I apologize for messy drawing. Thinking about this experiment https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg537420/#msg537420 i wondered if its equivalent to placing a capacitor at the bottom of tesla coil and
connecting earth end of a coil to one plate of  capacitor and single conductor to other, same for Tx and Rx . I did just that with random capacitors and its working like capacitor was
not there, makes no difference. I took no measurements just tried it.
So whats the point:
since this work should lead to power transfer via earth and so called interface - surface wave, i doubt that single wire ( metallic conductor )
will lead YOU anywhere close to your goal. Im not a skeptic and i did read about plans and ideas of using surface wave to send and receive signal between airplanes sensors and main computers on outer shell and wings (mam na mysli aluminiowe  poszycie samolotu ale nie wiem jak to nazwac po angielsku) in order to save money on wiring and weight of a plane itself and i totally agree it will work but for engineers with proper know how, understanding and state of the art equipment . So the wave exited by Tx bounces back and fort and gets utilized in Rx some 40 or 70feet apart might be easily mistaken by a surface wave and give you false assumptions.  Its just an opinion and i wonder what Wesley can say about my drawing.
Thank You 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 10, 2019, 03:20:24 AM
It is  absolutely lifting me up that I have so big Polish  participation in here.
And it is not because of Marie Skłodowska Curie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie)

My wife is Psychologist  she was born in Poland  and she got one of the best level of education possible.
There is something unique about these folks.
Something that made them different among many nations around.
Fighting  for so many centuries with Russian Aggressor they developed  need of being better and better in everything.

Simple and short:
You put them at any place and any country,without
knowledge of language, green card, and zero money  in the pocket
-dentist can become successful and wealthy construction guy in just 15-20 years from 15 dollars in his pocket  when he landed in Kennedy airport.
-surgeon will become  successful banker
-and microbiology student can become respected professor in famous  American university

Typically it was 6 to 10 years for most  of them to buy their first house in USA
Besides of Tadeusz Kosciuszko and Pulawski being heroes of American history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszkohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszkohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski)
I could simply say that just because of skills of these folks fighting with Russian aggression 
their escape  to America  - America got its independence under their command .
Today (Wednesday) is my holiday
And today I as an American express to you my Polish friends  my respect to everything you value.

Uniqueness of Polish Education System .
In 1950-2010 they had to learn approximately 300% more than average American in areas that have
been not so much included or just only "mentioned" in American school system
So their overall education  was very broad and not so much specific .
This was good and bad.
But becomes a precocious (exhibiting unique  qualities)  to/by any one who had to run for life from Poland  from
Russian oppression especially in  20tieth  century.
For these who don't know it was Poland who made possible  :
-fall of Berlin Wall
-freedom  of several countries from Russian/Soviet terror 
- fall of Soviet Union  starting from 1980 to 1991
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Lech-Walesa (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Lech-Walesa)
So what do we need this information for?

Polish are quiet, peaceful pushers of everything around.
I'm pointing at enormous and very uncommon ability to adapt to any possible conditions of life.
This is their uniqueness
- Great educated nation of quality people.
-Poland as leading economy in EU (GDP ) looks like sweet beautiful clean, modern candy - she shines  with her beauty.
-Poland is not chap like some of other Eastern European countries but you'll get what you paying for.

And I happened to be very much oriented in all of the aspects of that part of the world.
I understand all of 27 Slavic languages,
I speak 3 of them fluently
And two of them absolutely perfect... well..only  after few days  of being there.. 

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 10, 2019, 10:48:28 AM
Witam Kolege

Cytat z Wiki
Most modern audio amplifiers have a flat frequency response as shown above over the whole audio range of frequencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. This range of frequencies, for an audio amplifier is called its Bandwidth, (BW) and is primarily determined by the frequency response of the circuit.

Wlasnie sprawdzilem jak wyglada uzycie Wzmacaniacza audio Blaupunkt  PCA2120 2x120W 1x300W.
Podlaczylem generator sygnalow i uzylem wylacznie pozytywnej czesci pulsu sinusoidalnego niebedac pewnym czy
to cos dziala na sygnal przemienny czy tez tylko staly w postaci impulsow ( az tyle to nie wiem a szkoda mi tego wzmacniacza, moze w
nastepnym aucie mi pogra jeszcze :) )
Na wyjsciu oscyloskop pokazywal sygnal sinusoidalny a wiec to by moglo calkiem niezle dzialac przy 13-14volt i jakies 10 amper.
Niestety zgodnie z informacjami o wzmacniaczach audio wraz ze wzrostem czestotliwosci tracisz tzw GAIN. Jego mozliwosci wzmocnienia sygnalu znacznie  spadaja powyzej 120khz . A wiec wyciagajac wnioski moge spekulowac ze daloby sie zrobic Tesla coil na podobienstwo Slayer Exciter i kontrolowac czestotliwosc ale tylko na duzym lub bardzo duzym transformatorze ktory ma swoja czestotliwosc rezonansowa
w granicach 100khz i ponizej.
Wlasnie dlatego szukam mozliwosci podlaczenia generatora sygnalow do wzmacniacza ktory bedzie pracowac satysfakcjonujaco w przedziale czestotliwosci radiowych aby transformator Tesli nie byl duzy oraz latwy do zbudowania i szybkiej modyfikacji w razie potrzeby.
Dziekuje za pomysl i pozdrawiam


Skoro idzie modulacja na TT muzycznej to jasne jest, że teraz jest to pełny nadajnik. Ostatnio nawet na YT widziałem, że na FM jest normalnie przekaz muzyki co mnie nie dziwi.
Pomyślałem więc jeśli można tak to zrobić to jest to mega tanie rozwiązanie drogich wzmacniaczy na szerokie pasma bo my nie potrzebujemy tak dużych zakresów, a jedynie wąski obszar jak mniemam.
Zresztą to tylko dałem pomysł w oparciu o zdjęcia wzmacniaczy.

:)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 10, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
Recently, I read somewhere that Tesla, in an energy transfer experiment across the globe, used high power transmitter to stimulate the cavity. Carum brothers in an experiment on the river did energy transfer to the other side. Hmmmm it's not clear now what kind of wave they sent. By building the Viziv faith, everyone will agree that there will be great power in it, which suggests that in order to make the transmission that Tesla talked about you need to use the right large solution in relation to the earth!
The construction of miniature tesla coils may simply be impossible for transmission through a cavity of the earth and the resonance itself.
I may be wrong but these are my thoughts.

People from Ukraine made a transmission of energy and received an increase in output using special cone antennas. They have a 6kW device and 100kW for industry. However, I can't sell it because the Kiev authorities blocked it. Is this true I think so.

suggestion: when you have a river and a strong current, what will happen if you throw a stick? This is a possible answer for energy transmission!
Isn't that a beautiful explanation? Thank you.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 10, 2019, 11:59:11 AM
#134
Wesley, is your assumption right. ? Talk and discuss eventually with your wife about facts ,pros and cons. !
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruppe_47 (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruppe_47). 1947- 1967

" free art and artists ,free culture and culture -artists , free life and life culture " "


"Prager Fruehling"-rebellion up to    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_77 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_77)

Jugoslawia : Broz Tito ( blockfree  : other political leader Nehru/ Indira Ghandi / Nasser ; not Warschauer Pakt / NATO -block  member  )
"Sozialistische Internationale" : Warschauer Pakt. ? N. A. T. O. -Pakt ?  Blockfree Pakt. ?

 Hungary : Salami- communism

Sowjet/Soviet union and Berliner Mauer/wall of Berlin/Merlim

A.  earthquake in USSR Armenia
B. war in Afghanistan
C.Tchernobyl

And the " face-lost"  !

Not to forget an historical profile and his in-/ direct influence by a great world wide community : Carol Wojtyla. !

Poland : "Danziger Werft/Nave/Dock" worker-rebellion " Solidaritaet/Solidarnosz"  ( later : -union )
contra political head : Jaruzelski-regime ; rebellion co-leadership with some other has had a female worker,Lech Walesa:   "second choice"
"PRESIDENT from Poland, Oslo-Nobel-Yury award ,"Peace" : it does not matter.  ! Second choice,  eine " blasse" Figur. !   
                            100% male opportunist.  !

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass). Borned in Danzig,Stockholm-Nobel-Yury-award
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 10, 2019, 01:32:37 PM
Dont get me wrong lancalV lets concentrate on history of serbian-american Nikola Tesla work and leave politics to politicians and this complicated history to historians thx
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 10, 2019, 01:57:11 PM
YES WE CAN, groot :

http://www.petra-martini.de/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjdzZ0JHlAhVw1-AKHUHOANUQ9QEwAXoECAgQBA (http://www.petra-martini.de/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjdzZ0JHlAhVw1-AKHUHOANUQ9QEwAXoECAgQBA)

to.

Joseph Henry  ? RUHMKORFF  ? James Jeans. ?

to

Tesla, Marconi, ( not Enzo  !) but Galileo Ferrari +s ,Gianni Dotto, Sebastian Ziani De Ferranti

to

 glas-fiber

to 2001 experiment  :

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.handelsblatt.com%2Farchiv%2Fpowerline-rwe-startet-internet-ueber-die-steckdose-im-juli%2F2051966.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.handelsblatt.com%2Farchiv%2Fpowerline-rwe-startet-internet-ueber-die-steckdose-im-juli%2F2051966.html)

to
wifi

to today lab R&D and future common communication standart
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612964/what-is-quantum-communications/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicvazkz5HlAhU4A2MBHbayAv8Q9QEwA3oECAkQBg (https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612964/what-is-quantum-communications/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicvazkz5HlAhU4A2MBHbayAv8Q9QEwA3oECAkQBg)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 11, 2019, 01:17:04 AM
Food For Thought......

http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html (http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html)

This is a quote and you may disregard this article / publication because its perfect example how confused people are about
Tesla's Wireless Power Transmission System.

 "Tesla often refers to energy being carried by the currents rather than by Hertian waves. For example, he writes

    "From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth."

Straight away we see a problem with this. He is talking about a situation in which the reactive component of the field is to be much larger than the real components, in other words the intended destination is within the near field of the source (within say a half-wavelength to achieve the proportions suggested), or else both source and absorber are contained within a low-loss (high-Q) cavity. He is expecting the earth currents associated with the reactive near field to convey energy to his receivers independently of the EM field."

So the funny part is that he explains the process of a lanching a surface wave but still disregards its existence or possibility of its utilization.
   
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 11, 2019, 08:42:03 AM
Food For Thought......

http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html (http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html)

This is a quote and you may disregard this article / publication because its perfect example how confused people are about
Tesla's Wireless Power Transmission System.

 "Tesla often refers to energy being carried by the currents rather than by Hertian waves. For example, he writes

    "From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth."

Straight away we see a problem with this. He is talking about a situation in which the reactive component of the field is to be much larger than the real components, in other words the intended destination is within the near field of the source (within say a half-wavelength to achieve the proportions suggested), or else both source and absorber are contained within a low-loss (high-Q) cavity. He is expecting the earth currents associated with the reactive near field to convey energy to his receivers independently of the EM field."

So the funny part is that he explains the process of a lanching a surface wave but still disregards its existence or possibility of its utilization.
 


The tesla coil can operate in two modes:
- voltage (V)
- current (A)

for V the effect is high HV
and for A high A.

This is not strange, but has anyone done such an experience and knows how to do it? I did such tests and I can say that Kapanadze could use the Tesla coil in mode A.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: blueplanet on October 11, 2019, 12:22:23 PM

Hello Stivep and other forum members,


I am sorry to have to step in to clear up some misunderstanding.  If my memory serves me well, the main authors of this paper have already left to other countries a long time ago. I don't think this work has anything to do with Guangdong[size=78%].[/size]


I don't visit this forum very often but feel free to discuss, ask questions and share your knowledge with others.


Blueplanet



From Wesley: Special  Thank you speedy125
please start reading from here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593)
PART#6
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)


From  part  #1  we have learned   that
-earth as    multilayered part of interface  is suggested.
-that is  in line  with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at  picture  representing multilayered  interface
-  we  had the first look at wave behavior while  "loading" into  interface

From  part  #2  we have learned:
- the  differences  between  regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested   ground  as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave  in  the  interface  must  be  in TM  mode

From  part  #3  we have learned:
-  that  the thickness of both layers  of the  interface is expected  to be 1/4 of  the  wavelength Y

From  part  #4  we have learned:
Basic schematic   of  Avramenko fork and  voltage multiplier   that can be used at any frequency
in association with Goubau line or any other type of interface.

From  part  #5  we have learned:
 SIMULATED AND MEASURED RESULTS OF BASIC WPT (Wireless Power Transmission)CONFIGURATION
We can see from Fig.3b Fig.3c impressive performance   of TM in the interface.
=======================================================-this above is another confirmation of expected performance over the regular  EM wave
.-this above is another confirmation of expected performance TM  in the interface at low frequencies.
-this above is another confirmation of fact that this wave is not  present in Far Field 
The exact  statement  saying  it  is int the article I just must have time to find it
Wesley

   
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 11, 2019, 09:08:52 PM
http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html (http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html)
 "Tesla often refers to energy being carried by the currents rather than by Hertian waves. For example, he writes
    "From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth."
I went into the article.
I search who is Paul Nicholson  the guy  is mystery  to me.
 The REAL Science of non-Hertzian waves, by Paul Nicholson  no  original  link  to article was found

I happened to read the  reprint few years  ago  but it was not deep  study.
End of story is that  Article was likely published  in 2002.  the missing  are  the drawings he  referees  too.That is why his article-  reprint is somehow unclear.
The guy  had no idea  about  surface  wave and interface  as it was  at that time in  its infant  stage.
Definitely he was/ is educated  guy with nice English skills. 
He got few things  right and article is worth  reading.
Waveguide and lightning  is nicely explained,  however  again  his limitation is his approach based on lack of novelty of surface  wave science.
So my plan was to  contact him  or visit him  with some  suggestions.   

Along my search  I  got  few helpful links:
- http://www.tfcbooks.com/mainpage/links2.htm (http://www.tfcbooks.com/mainpage/links2.htm)
- https://www.backyardastronomy.net/natural-radio-receiver/ (https://www.backyardastronomy.net/natural-radio-receiver/)
Quote
"This last link  says thank you to  Paul Nicholson"

who  is  he? ??? ??

Quote
VLF receiver is nothing more than an audio amplifier attached to an antenna.
Quote
One of the most popular uses for a VLF receiver is for listening to lightning strikes from around the world,
and the interesting effects that this activity has on our atmosphere.
Quote
lightning strike is not a narrow band event as is say a military VLF transmitter like NAA in Cutler Maine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler) at 24KHz.
These types of wide band signals are characteristic of natural EMF activity from Earth
The article  includes schematic and waterfall of Rx.
-https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/132576/why-is-lightning-referred-to-as-high-frequency-source
Lightning strike
 
Quote
The negative flash/stroke is found to have 200KA  of current with a voltage close to 300KV (cloud to ground).
According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#General_considerations), average duration of a lightning is 30μs. If we take a gaussian current splash with σ=30μs,
its spectrum will be a gaussian with σk≈33kHz.
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
Quote
Lightning discharges are considered to be the primary natural source of Schumann resonance excitation;
lightning channels behave like huge antennas that radiate electromagnetic energy at frequencies below about 100 kHz.
-https://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html easy way  to receive ULF .

Especially interesting  is this link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2005GL023028/full (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2005GL023028/full)
Detection of thirteen resonances of radio waves from particularly intense lightning discharges
So  we know from all of links  above  that lightning is  responsible(mainly) for  Schumann   resonances and
lightning by itself is  the source of its  own  resonances  and its harmonics separately.

With that we may ask what  happen if EM wave at right tilt angle and polarization hits the earth?
Will  it land  in the interface?
Can we help EM wave to do what we what it to do  by Kapanadze process of activation?
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=993 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=993)

Quote
Lightning strikes reach the ground on Earth as much as 8 million times per day or 100 times per second,
according to the National Severe Storms Laboratory (https://www.bing.com/search?q=National+Severe+Storms+Laboratory&filters=sid%3a4765c811-1c2f-fd3e-b481-7a4eca5de113&form=ENTLNK).
and we know that we need   50/60Hz per second for our electricity in our outlet.
Random amount of EM  waves  per second  produced by  lightning  with right  properties  to land in the  interface
can be  calculated.
Than this energy can be  received stored in capacitor and rectified.
The only  why we  use  AC is that is convenient but DC is used by most if not  all of  our  portable devices  also  by choice of convinience

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 11, 2019, 09:34:46 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=poincare+light&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 12, 2019, 01:07:22 PM
Wireless transfer energy
see points.


http://wi-tap.energy/experiments/
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 12, 2019, 05:19:55 PM
Hello

As you noticed im just an amateur and curious person who likes to learn stuff.
Now i turn to you seeking a simple explanation and training.
Do to lack of financial resources i can only afford simple and cheap tools i can find on ebay.
Im using this simple usb oscilloscope Hantek 6022be . It is easy to use and fun to learn and
explore options and possibilities given by such tool.

While playing with frequency counter option  i noticed it shows me two different wave forms.
Im trying to determine frequency of my slayer exciter and at very low power ( 3-5volt input) i keep the probe pretty close to a top load.
While i change top loads it adjusts to different resonant frequencies.

So im using this software provided with the device and when i use stop option at longer time frame lets say 50us
it shows this modulated like wave . still i can measure frequency and its the same as i take shorter time frame 10us  but wave form
is regular sine wave.
What does it mean and why i see two different wave forms?
Tesla coil is top loaded and grounded and slayer has feedback antenna coil to pickup the signal . When i played with single wire
transmission ( top load - coil - capacitor -- copper wire -- capacitor -coil - top load ) i could see same different wave forms so ground
didn't change anything.
I consider probe leads are cheap, is this the reason and which wave form is true ?

Thank you         
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: gotoluc on October 14, 2019, 05:59:47 PM
Good morning Wesley,

I have some concerns in moving forward to the next step of wireless transmission.
Since it involves using earth ground instead of the nice shielded coaxial wire I've been experimenting with.
My concerns are, as soon as I connect the TC secondary bottom wire to earth ground it dissipates the high voltage everywhere in the ground like a massive sponge.
The results are a mostly dampen signal to the TC top capacitance. So how can one expect any wireless transmission?
Also not clear is, the earth grounds quality!... as I have already demonstrated, in my location earth grounds are very bad due to the sand.
How good does the ground need to be?

Apparently Tesla had multiple grounding rods hundreds of feet deep below his Wardenclyff tower plus the location is on a shore to the Atlantic Ocean.
What did the Viziv project use or do for earth ground?

Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 14, 2019, 07:32:04 PM
I'm sorry  but   in the car now
so I answer  it short and may be not that precise as you  wish.
 
I suggested you to go step by step.
Don't  jump ahead.
It is  a learning curve.
From Goubau   line  the next step is to buy cheap aluminum foil  and make experiment .
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174200/image//
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=367

Quote
Types  of interface:
-e.g
- Goubau  line uses  wire coated with   dielectric and that should be   named  the interface, but it is not.
- two dielectrics differing  with their  dielectric properties   such  as Teflon  and Polyamide  makes interface
- conductive medium such as  aluminum foil  and  air creates  interfaced as well
- lossy conductive  medium a such  as earth   and air creates interface too
and so on...
After you  are successful with that   it is helpful to
use  spark gap instead  of    Generator  and  adjust spark electrodes  distance .
That  gives you comparable  results   .Because spectrum  of spark generator is wide  than  you don't have to be worry  that  system is unstable
there is enough  of Adjacent frequencies  in the  spectrum  to  take  over .

Quote
Failures:
The failure   of your experiments  can be caused also by:
1. lack of impedance  match.
2. lack of proper  polarization AND BREWSTER  ANGLE - that is done (at its easiest)  by  changing elevation of top capacitor . HV Tesla coil  must be vertical to the  ground 
3. lack of resonance in both  the Tx  and Rx  Tesla coils
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539579/#msg539579

Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 15, 2019, 06:26:53 AM
Good morning Wesley,

I have some concerns in moving forward to the next step of wireless transmission.
Since it involves using earth ground instead of the nice shielded coaxial wire I've been experimenting with.
My concerns are, as soon as I connect the TC secondary bottom wire to earth ground it dissipates the high voltage everywhere in the ground like a massive sponge.
The results are a mostly dampen signal to the TC top capacitance. So how can one expect any wireless transmission?
Also not clear is, the earth grounds quality!... as I have already demonstrated, in my location earth grounds are very bad due to the sand.
How good does the ground need to be?

Apparently Tesla had multiple grounding rods hundreds of feet deep below his Wardenclyff tower plus the location is on a shore to the Atlantic Ocean.
What did the Viziv project use or do for earth ground?

Kind regards
Luc

This is a very important question which I asked twice and never got an answer.
Let me help us two a bit and provide a clue:

This lateral wave is a vertically polarized electromagnetic wave on the top surface of the ground as a result of an incident electromagnetic wave striking the air-ground interface from below at exactly the critical angle [16], [17]. For an interface between two different dielectric media, the critical angle is only applicable to the dielectric medium with a higher refractive index.To excite this lateral wave, it is logical to bury the lower end of transmitting and receiving aerials into the dielectric layer with a higher refractive index in much the same way as grounding a monopole antenna in Tesla’s or Marconi’s work .

No simple answers available.

 Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760

When you read about  this experiment https://arxiv.org/pdf/1903.10294.pdf you see a different mechanism ,
 mainly "Sinking of Equi-phases"
Whatever you read it points you in a whole new direction . unless its all the same???
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: r2fpl on October 15, 2019, 08:57:48 AM
I wrote earlier that for transmission through the earth cavity, Tesla used high energy to stimulate the resonance cavity. The minimum value given is 75kW. Maybe it's a way of implementation because we don't want to make a wave, just connect to it.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: lancaIV on October 15, 2019, 10:04:03 AM
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=Hanna+Albert+awad&IN=&CPC=&IC=
Point 6. ...... a motor which is driven......
           7.  Vehicle driven above ground
The less power need : energy transmission and receiving. : " magnet/capacitor" Earth
                                                                                                          Prof. Dr. Ehrenhaft studies
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 16, 2019, 01:31:47 AM
I'm still  traveling
I will respond to the comments  in my free time.
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539721/#msg539721 (https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539721/#msg539721)
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on October 19, 2019, 03:03:53 PM
Moderators please remove if to OT.
I'm curious about a power supply that I have used on my coils.


On the very long list of things I don't understand. I've been trying different power supplies with my Zenneck coils experiment. I don't understand how this selenium rectifier is delivering results that a power diode does not. [/size]I'm measuring the 16VAC output of the transformer in parallel to the rectifier.The circuit only oscillates when the rectifier is in the circuit.The DC output on a DMM is around 8V or 16VAC on same DMM. It gets better results than by DC power supply at 12VDC . Stronger field more plasma etc.


With the dc supply it takes at least 12v for oscillations 150ma. Continuous oscillation. With half rectified ac nothing on other adapters or the the power supply above. It’s only when the rectifier is part of the circuit. I see 50hz flickering when activated via the rectifier and 100ma current draw.


 vid  https://youtu.be/_odJBpkGfrw (https://youtu.be/_odJBpkGfrw)
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: shylo on October 20, 2019, 09:22:23 AM
Hi Jim,
I'm very limited when it comes to electronics,but don't you need 4 diodes to make a bridge rectifier?
artv
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Jimboot on October 22, 2019, 06:27:05 AM
Hi Jim,
I'm very limited when it comes to electronics,but don't you need 4 diodes to make a bridge rectifier?
artv
For a full wave rectifier yes, However the selenium rectifier on the power supply I am testing is only 1/2 rectified and produces better results on my coils for less power than DC, I'm trying to understand why. 1/2 rectified with a power diode does not produce the same results.
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 24, 2019, 03:05:57 AM
Hello

Experiment Experiment.
Instead of wire connecting two tesla coils -- Distilled Water.
So i cut a 5 feet of plastic pipe in half so it formed a vessel. Filled it with distilled water and  using alligator clip connected end of coil and water ;D.
Coils are tuned so when connected with wire you can see lit light bulb on receiving side. Power Level low so no transmission without a connection.
In my opinion this could be interesting if one can make a power transmission. Measured over 20M Ohm of resistance. Is it possible to match impedance or surface wave transmission is the only option??

Thank You   
P.S.
So far I did not succeed  >:( ;D
 
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: onepower on October 24, 2019, 05:52:34 PM
Groot
Quote
In my opinion this could be interesting if one can make a power transmission. Measured over 20M Ohm of resistance. Is it possible to match impedance or surface wave transmission is the only option??

The laws which govern the action are pretty straightforward. If the induced charges/potential repel each other and they do then they must travel on the surface of the conductor and not inside it. Also, Power=(V x I), so the power transmitted relates to the electrical pressure times the number of charges moving due to the applied electrical pressure. Therefore in order to increase the real power across an "insulator" the potential must rise to a level sufficient to conduct.

What many find hard to fathom is that Tesla was generating ten's of millions of volts potential in a very small time frame which made every insulator conduct. So when the experimenter only generates maybe 500kV in the milliamp range in there Tesla coil and little happens they think it cannot work. Think of it like this... consider the minor effects your setup produces then consider what happens in a lightning strike. Imagine what would happen if you could produce an 8 foot lightning bolt in your garage?, lol. Now were into Tesla's realm and not only would it smoke all electronics within hundreds of feet but your vehicle would probably start on fire.

From what I can see the first problem is an electronic driver for your primary which is grossly under powered. As Tesla said the goal is to charge a capacitor to the highest possible voltage and discharge it violently through the primary in the smallest time frame with no alternations or reversal. In effect, your trying to tap the primary with a spoon producing AC oscillations where Tesla smashed it with a 20 kg sledge hammer in a single blow with no oscillations.

It is no easy thing but I can tell you from experience that when you do get it right all hell breaks loose. Quite literally everything becomes a conductor in ways few would expect. Now one could ask, if we could create an environment in which "all energy" was now free to move how many different kinds of energy are present which could move?. I believe Tesla implied he was not generating energy per se but producing a conduit for external energy to flow through.

Here is the procedure, we input X energy to create an energy conduit which allows Y external energy to flow through it. Then we capture X and Y energy recycling X back to the input leaving Y energy for our use. It's like putting up a sail on a boat and capturing the wind energy, we did not create the wind nor the energy from it we just created a mechanism to harness the wind energy already present.

Regards


Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: groot on October 26, 2019, 02:45:11 AM

The laws which govern the action are pretty straightforward. If the induced charges/potential repel each other and they do then they must travel on the surface of the conductor and not inside it. Also, Power=(V x I), so the power transmitted relates to the electrical pressure times the number of charges moving due to the applied electrical pressure. Therefore in order to increase the real power across an "insulator" the potential must rise to a level sufficient to conduct.


onepower I do realize I know small fraction of what Tesla was doing.  High power + high voltage sure can make magic.
Allow me to quote Tesla :
As regards the rise of potential through resonant action, of course, theoretically, it may amount to anything since it depends on self-induction and resistance and since these may have any value.  But in practice one is limited in the selection of these values and besides these, there are other limiting causes.  One may start with, say, 1,000 volts and raise the E. M. F. to 50 times that value, but one cannot start with 100,000 and raise it to ten times that value because of the losses in the media which are great, especially if the frequency is high.  It should be possible to start with, for instance, two volts from a high or low frequency circuit of a dynamo and raise the E. M. F. to many hundred times that value.  Thus coils of the proper dimensions might be connected each with only one of its ends to the mains from a machine of low E. M. F., and though the circuit of the machine would not be closed in the ordinary acceptance of the term, yet the machine might be burned out if a proper resonance effect would be obtained.

http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/frankgermano_net/nikolatesla2.htm

What many find hard to fathom is that Tesla was generating ten's of millions of volts potential in a very small time frame which made every insulator conduct. So when the experimenter only generates maybe 500kV in the milliamp range in there Tesla coil and little happens they think it cannot work. Think of it like this... consider the minor effects your setup produces then consider what happens in a lightning strike. Imagine what would happen if you could produce an 8 foot lightning bolt in your garage?, lol. Now were into Tesla's realm and not only would it smoke all electronics within hundreds of feet but your vehicle would probably start on fire.
My problem with use of high power spark gap tesla coil is  interference. State I live in prohibits use of such transmitters by law.
It might be very entertaining to recreate "The Philadelphia Project" but I am certain that it would lead me to jail sentence  :)

Wireless power transfer concept presented by Wesley has been researched, tested and finally granted patent  by US Patent Office.
If  for some reason my posts make impression Im trying to build or copy perpetual motion device aka free energy device than Im sorry for confusing the readers. This Is not a free energy device.

Dr Corum in his patent experimentally proved a concept of wireless energy transmission over an interface. You can find him doing this with 15volts peak to peak alternating current. Other calculations provided in the patent are: 100khz, 8meter high terminal, 5kv charge at top load  - "The guided field strength curve falls off at between 4000 - 7000 Kilometers"

Most likely its pretty expensive to construct such a device and that's how I came up with my Experiment.
Instead of dealing with Earth as lossy medium that changes its parameters use water.  Seneca lake experiment
Than make it even easier and have a raised (suspended) container with water in it. Tesla coils are used only to show lack of conductivity in old fashioned manner.  No need to deal with ground plane image theory.  I might be mistaken. This is why I posted it. Im looking for suggestions and wonder if there is any interest  in surface wave experiments. If none let me know and ill stop littering this forum.

Thx
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: onepower on October 26, 2019, 03:49:04 AM
groot
Quote
Dr Corum in his patent experimentally proved a concept of wireless energy transmission over an interface. You can find him doing this with 15volts peak to peak alternating current. Other calculations provided in the patent are: 100khz, 8meter high terminal, 5kv charge at top load  - "The guided field strength curve falls off at between 4000 - 7000 Kilometers"

Fair enough, the patent information is interesting though because as we all know a 100khz, 8m high, 5kv Tesla coil cannot transmit 4000 km. More like 1m distance in good conditions for those of us who have built and tested them in the past. I think it's kind of neat because the patents never tell the full story and we have to connect the dots for ourselves. What I can tell you is I have built many systems similar to yours and not in a million years will it even transmit power across the street. It simply does not have the capacity nor the required qualities to do this.

Therefore... it must be something else, something missing as I explained. People need to get past this notion of EM waves travelling through the atmosphere in order to make any progress in my opinion.

Regards
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 30, 2019, 11:23:39 PM
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg2290266/?PHPSESSID=oqakpcqq7lgsb5e0i0huu19c52#msg2290266 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg2290266/?PHPSESSID=oqakpcqq7lgsb5e0i0huu19c52#msg2290266)
very much known video blogger forum:
The guy who created that forum  is  opposing the concept of Viziv and that is OK with me.
however  it is interesting comment  there  (link above)It explains  very low lossess due to VLF
EEV is brilliant Engineer, however  he better keeps to that what he knows the best.
He  "attacked" FE community calling us  with names.He also made special video expressing his opinion.

With all due respect  he also tends to  ban some individuals who have opposite opinion.

The main difference between us is that (I believe that) he needs to make money on any activity he  does..
I don't- so his youtube  is very professional, but  not much beyond that . 
Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on October 31, 2019, 12:56:18 AM
some links to remember :
1. http://wikirota.org/en/LGV_Rota_Patents (http://wikirota.org/en/LGV_Rota_Patents) Patent .and question as to he used Zenneck wave

2. https://www.roke.co.uk/ (https://www.roke.co.uk/)          roke.co.uk woking on  special applications of Zenneck WaveRoke was first mentioned here;
http://technews.tmcnet.com/wearabletechworld/topics/from-the-experts/articles/325596-zenneck-waves-keep-wearable-tech-wireless-communications-close.htm (http://technews.tmcnet.com/wearabletechworld/topics/from-the-experts/articles/325596-zenneck-waves-keep-wearable-tech-wireless-communications-close.htm)
Quote
Roke is an electronics engineering company that primarily provides contract research,
product development and manufacturing for a wide range of U.K. and international customers.
Its team currently comprises more than 350 engineers focused on developing advanced sensors,
communications systems and network solutions for a diverse range of applications
2a.Isolation of the Zenneck Surface Wave: Update Janice Turner (nee Hendry) Roke Manor Research Limited, Romsey / University College London
2b. Roke  :SURFACE WAVES:  WHAT ARE THEY? WHY ARE THEY INTERES[/font]TING? Janice Hendry
    https://www.armms.org/media/uploads/1259319847.pdf (https://www.armms.org/media/uploads/1259319847.pdf)

3.http://teslaradio.com/pages/wireless_102.htm (http://teslaradio.com/pages/wireless_102.htm)   WIRELESS TRANSMISSION THEORY

4.https://swling.com/blog/2018/10/scientists-studying-wireless-electric-transmission-in-central-texas/ (https://swling.com/blog/2018/10/scientists-studying-wireless-electric-transmission-in-central-texas/)   hams  interested with Zenneck Wave

5.https://experts.syr.edu/en/publications/surface-plasmonspolaritons-surface-waves-and-zenneck-waves-clarif (https://experts.syr.edu/en/publications/surface-plasmonspolaritons-surface-waves-and-zenneck-waves-clarif)
Syracuse University
Quote
A Zenneck wave is produced at the zero of the reflection coefficient of a plane incident TM wave (at the Brewster angle of incidence) on an air-dielectric interface, whereas surface waves are produced when the TM reflection coefficient is infinite. Both the Zenneck wave and the surface wave are TM waves and are nonradiating, as they have, in general, exponentially decaying fields with distance. For the Zenneck wave, the evanescent transverse field components do not change appreciably with frequency (because the phenomenon of Brewster angle is independent of frequency), whereas for a surface wave, with an increase of the frequency the wave is more closely coupled to the surface.

5a.https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1179&context=etd
Syracuse University
 (https://experts.syr.edu/en/publications/surface-plasmonspolaritons-surface-waves-and-zenneck-waves-clarif)A STUDY FOR THE PROPAGATION OF ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES OVER IMPERFECT
GROUND PLANES BASED ON WAVES OVER IMPERFECT GROUND PLANES BASED
ON SCHELKUNOFF INTEGRALS SCHELKUNOFF INTEGRALS

6.https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.2212307Observation (https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.2212307Observation) of Zenneck-type waves in microwave propagation experiments             

7. https://www.safie.hq.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1770582/air-force-signs-mou-to-test-resilience-improving-technology/ (https://www.safie.hq.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1770582/air-force-signs-mou-to-test-resilience-improving-technology/)  Air Force,Pentagon, Va
Quote
Zenneck Surface Wave, to carry communications signals or electrical power efficiently over
long distances along the Earth’s surface without the need for wires.

8.https://arxiv.org/pdf/1910.10973.pdf (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1910.10973.pdf)   
Compound Guided Waves That Mix Characteristics of Surface-Plasmon-Polariton, Tamm,Dyakonov–Tamm, and Uller–Zenneck Waves

9.https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2mptxb/zenneck-power-llc (https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2mptxb/zenneck-power-llc)
rapport about new company called[/font] Zenneck Power, LLC Overview

10. https://dallasinnovates.com/startup-funding-who-got-the-money-in-2018/ (https://dallasinnovates.com/startup-funding-who-got-the-money-in-2018/) Viziv got  $34.1M dollars. 
But also Viziv announced that it had raised (https://dallasinnovates.com/follow-the-money-yourcause-exits-in-157m-deal-viziv-technologies-raises-1-37m/) an additional $1.372 million in two funding rounds.

11.https://www.coursehero.com/file/p62v1kl/Zenneck-Surface-Wave-For-a-lossy-medium-%CE%B2-the-TM-reflection-coefficient/ (https://www.coursehero.com/file/p62v1kl/Zenneck-Surface-Wave-For-a-lossy-medium-%CE%B2-the-TM-reflection-coefficient/)Zenneck Surface Wave For a lossy medium β the TM . (https://www.coursehero.com/file/p62v1kl/Zenneck-Surface-Wave-For-a-lossy-medium-%CE%B2-the-TM-reflection-coefficient/)this page check your security  to verify that you are not robot.
12.https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/wardenclyffe-lab-1901-1906/connection-to-earth/proposed-methods-for-terrestrial-resonance/ (https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/wardenclyffe-lab-1901-1906/connection-to-earth/proposed-methods-for-terrestrial-resonance/)
Quote
At Wardenclyffe Tesla operated at frequencies from 1,000 Hz to 100 kHz.
He found the frequency range up to 30 – 35 kHz, “to be most economical.”

Quote
Based upon an analysis of the Colorado Springs Notes and other sources [including Corum & Corum]
 it appears a basic World System oscillator would develop a wave complex with an extremely low frequency (ELF)
in the 6 – 1000 Hz range [obtained with an alternator, NTAC, p. 155] plus a very low frequency (VLF) component around 25 – 35 kHz.
Tesla specified a frequency of 925 Hz for power transmission in the patents “System of Transmission of Electrical Energy (http://www.nuenergy.org/uploads/tesla/US645576.pdf)”
U.S. Patent No. 645,576, dated March 20, 1900 and “Apparatus for Transmission of Electrical Energy (http://www.nuenergy.org/uploads/tesla/US649621.pdf)”
U.S. Patent No. 649,621, dated May 15, 1900.

13.https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09205071.2015.1093964 (https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09205071.2015.1093964) just math
14.https://www.e-fermat.org/articles/sarkar-art-2019-vol31-jul-aug-01/ (https://www.e-fermat.org/articles/sarkar-art-2019-vol31-jul-aug-01/)
controversy about sign error the major problem  between old school and Corum.

15.http://www.jpier.org/PIERM/pierm13/02.10041409.pdf (http://www.jpier.org/PIERM/pierm13/02.10041409.pdf)
ONERA (The French Aerospace Lab)
In the field of maritime surveillance,Zenneck WAVE



Wesley
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: Raycathode on October 31, 2019, 09:51:11 AM
Hello

Experiment Experiment.
Instead of wire connecting two tesla coils -- Distilled Water.
So i cut a 5 feet of plastic pipe in half so it formed a vessel. Filled it with distilled water and  using alligator clip connected end of coil and water ;D.
Coils are tuned so when connected with wire you can see lit light bulb on receiving side. Power Level low so no transmission without a connection.
In my opinion this could be interesting if one can make a power transmission. Measured over 20M Ohm of resistance. Is it possible to match impedance or surface wave transmission is the only option??

Thank You   
P.S.
So far I did not succeed  >:( ;D
yeah why not make a mini tesla coil or use a TV lopt so it creates a plasma spray from loads of sharp spikes and put into a mesh tube to create an ion field anduse magnets to direct theions out to a collector ?
Title: Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
Post by: stivep on December 07, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
https://www.tntech.edu/engineering/research/cesr/wireless-power/power-through-earth.php (https://www.tntech.edu/engineering/research/cesr/wireless-power/power-through-earth.phpWesley)
Earth Transmission Wirelessly sending power through the earth is a project funded by the National Science Federation (NSF).
The purpose of this experiment is to send power to sensors in a field an and to determine the characteristics and viability of sending power within the earth.
The principle of earth transmission is similar to the single wire wireless power transfer characteristics of a coil.
The earth completes a path between the top and bottom electrode of the system. 
Placing a current through the top electrode of the well will cause a current that will transmit into the earth and propagate across the skin layer of the earth.

This is a very similar phenomenon like seen in a Zenneck wave.

Wesley