Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Solid States Devices => Wireless Energy Transfer => Topic started by: ramset on September 18, 2019, 03:15:01 PM
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Under construction
in a few days
Forum Moderator and member GotoLuc
Will be hosting a build here .
This is the place for :
- builders
-experimenters
-practitioners
-theoretic contribution in area of energy transfer.
- people interested to discuss this particular topic
Will try to focus our attention and posts submitted in relation to that specific topic here.
anything related to
-Tesla Coil
- Viziv
-interface and its variations such as:
a. dielectric and dielectric with different dielectric properties
b. dielectric ( e.g air) and conductive medium ( e.g copper or aluminum)
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
c dielectric (e.g air) and lossy conductive medium ( e.g earth)
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=306 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=306)
- HV AC power supply that can be used to power Tesla coil
- Generators and HV generators that can be used to power Tesla coil
- RF Amplifiers that can be used to power Tesla coil
- impedance matching devices and tuners.
- Top Capacitors and its futures/ and practical designs.
- energy transfer from given point A to any point B using interface
- Near field and Far Field practical and theoretical
- modes of electromagnetic wave such as TM mode
-Goubau line (e.g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line))
-Schumann Waveguide and its resonances
- Waveguides and its futures
- Ionosphere /earth cavity and its properties if related
-related ground and grounding techniques e.g counterpoise
To miejsce jest dla tych ktorzy zajmuja sie tym konkretnym tematem wyszczegolnionym powyzej.
это место только для людей, которые хотят говорить и экспериментировать в этой конкретной теме
характер этой темы объяснен выше
Dieser Ort ist für Menschen, die ihre praktische und theoretische Erfahrung in diesem ganz spezifischen Bereich einbringen möchten.
Respectfully
Chet K
Legal note: High Voltage is dangerous .
It is your decision of what you do and nobody else.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMJr-oUYYDA
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r2fpl Sir thank you for the very appropriate video ,here in this thread there will be a build with point to pointTesla energy transfer experiments as well as Viziv type investigations and hopefully experiments with direct energy Harvesting from the Schumann wave guide.
Thank you for the contribution
respectfully Chet K
Dziekuje dobry material
Wesley
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlirYRhYvfM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDh5CcaghJU
more on the channell: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1c384Gyck10hhAifO5hspw
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Hello
Question to tesla coil builders:
Is capacitance of grounded tesla coil TOP LOAD (sphere or toroid) dependent on it elevation regards to earth or not?
Thx
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlHoU54Pyv0
thank you r2fpl
Wesley
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Is capacitance of grounded tesla coil TOP LOAD (sphere or toroid) dependent on it elevation regards to earth or not?
Thx
Yes it is .
That capacitor size must be as here:
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950)
The Top Capacitor is one plate and earth is another.
So increasing distance between two plates makes its capacitance smaller.
Please fallow the instruction that : D= or > 4d
It is good to have d as large as possible. No sharp edges and mushroom shape is the best but not critical.
If you chose mushroom shape than lower edge of the mushroom must be bend inward to prevent discharges.
Note#1: no sharp corners !!!
Wesley
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Hello Wesley, Chet and all
The below 3 video demos are my first attempts to study power transmission.
As a first start I used what I already had on hand which is a self tuning (resonance) circuit that was built by Tinsel Koala.
I had made a set of matching Primary and Secondary coils tuned to resonate at 1.1Mhz
I used a single wire as a conductive medium (instead of earth ground or aluminum foil) connected between the lower wire of each Tesla secondaries coils.
The primary on the transmitter is connected to the self tune circuit and on the receiver is connected to a 18W bulb as load.
It is important to know and understand that this 15 feet single wire power transfer demonstration is not radio transmission.
Contrary to standard theory which states current needs a return path, in this demonstration power transfer is achieved by a single wire with no return path.
Part 2 video is an attempt to prove the return path is not achieved by air transmission by enclosing the receiver (under load) in a grounded Faraday cage.
Part 3 video demonstrates a maximized power transfer (compared to part 1) and also includes an approximate bulb power (in watts) comparison.
Part 1: https://youtu.be/kwfwkAtXUKY (https://youtu.be/kwfwkAtXUKY)
Part 2: https://youtu.be/DKxx42Y9nqo (https://youtu.be/DKxx42Y9nqo)
Part 3: https://youtu.be/slErtdgTdbs (https://youtu.be/slErtdgTdbs)
Regards
Luc
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Thank you gotoluc
Great example of Goubau line
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goubau_line)
https://accelconf.web.cern.ch/accelconf/BIW2012/papers/tupg007.pdf (https://accelconf.web.cern.ch/accelconf/BIW2012/papers/tupg007.pdf)
https://tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23311916.2018.1507083 (https://tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23311916.2018.1507083)
https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09205071.2017.1317036?journalCode=tewa20 (https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09205071.2017.1317036?journalCode=tewa20)
in this last link it is considered TE mode instead of TM mode.
We want TM mode.!! in out surface wave for our power transmission.
TM mode: Transverse magnetic waves, also called E waves are characterized by the fact that the magnetic vector (H vector) is always perpendicular to the direction of propagation.
Note#1: you can also create two cones structure with wire as explained in links
it will work also with magnet wire as that wire is coated with dielectric paint.
Note#2: some of you may have problem to identify it as Goubau due to slightly different configuration.
but we definitely deal with surface wave in dielectric!!!/ metal interface.
don't be surprised if it works also with non coated copper wire. Yes it will but the mechanism is exactly the same it will be copper/ air interface.
But if we talking about effectiveness of energy transmission than use Teflon coated wire
Note#3: it is not much difference if you use 1ft aluminum foil or you use wire.
Top Capacitor:
should look like mushroom or torus but shape is not critical and not so much important ( it is just the most easy but still effective form of it )
Top Capacitor when is large it has bigger capacitance and adjustment can/must be done by changing the size of it or elevation .
However elevation is that what gives us polarization and right Brewster Angle
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539151/#msg539151 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539151/#msg539151)
Wesley
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Luc,
What I see with your experiment is that the apparently-invisible circuit is completed via the path from the top capacitance of the TC's to earth ground.
What leads you to believe that it is a longitudinal wave powering the lamp?
A Faraday shield around the RX coil won't shield the effect because essentially the earth is being used as the return conductor.
The shield may even improve the effect as it could increase the conductivity from the RX top capacitor to earth ground.
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At best you can be ready to make power transmission over the earth as soon as tomorrow,
At worst you will never do it
It is easy but tricky
You really need to understand the 4 of my posts here:
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539098/#msg539098 (https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539098/#msg539098)
Wesley
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What I see with your experiment is that the apparently-invisible circuit is completed via the path from the top capacitance of the TC's to earth ground.
Are you saying the transmitter top Pico Farad value capacitance is able to work its way down through 4" of cement, then countless feet of non conducting sand to get down to current conducting ground to travel 15 feet then make its way back up through the same non current conductive medium up to the receivers top capacitance and can deliver 6 watts all without impeding the transmitter?
What leads you to believe that it is a longitudinal wave powering the lamp?
Because that's what experimenters say when they can't explain it ;D
A Faraday shield around the RX coil won't shield the effect because essentially the earth is being used as the return conductor.
How high off the cement (ground) would the transmitter and receiver need to be to eliminate your ground thought possibility?
The shield may even improve the effect as it could increase the conductivity from the RX top capacitor to earth ground.
BTW, the grounding of the Faraday cage was added by the 87yo Lockheed Martin Physicist who visits the lab each morning. Yesterday he was convinced the current path was through the air (radio) and why I then built the cage. Then this morning when he saw the cage didn't change anything he was thinking the cage acted as an antenna to the top capacitor and thought once the cage was grounded its antenna effect would be neutralized. Once again to his surprise it changed nothing. He left still believing there's a current path somehow but could not identify it.
I'm quite sure he considered all ground path possibilities but could not consider it with the transmitter being battery operated.
So I'm sorry to say but your ground path possibility is not very convincing to me. However, I'm ready to consider a good explanation of how that could possibly work.
Regards
Luc
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Compare it to this.
Here you have shielded Faraday cage too.
There is no electromagnetic longitudinal wave and there never was electromagnetic longitudinal wave
It simply can not exist.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
Wesley
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Hi Luc
I am glad you came back.
I can say that I did such an experiment and I confirm that energy goes through one wire. However, the bulb needs mass.
The receiving Tesla coil makes a virtual mass if I can say that. Try to lift the connecting cable or isolate it from the ground. PVC is a diaelectrician who can collect loads with change. I don't know if it's good, but check what happens after lifting the cable.
ps. I think Jeremy told you.
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Compare it to this.
Here you have shielded Faraday cage too.
There is no electromagnetic longitudinal wave and there never was electromagnetic longitudinal wave
It simply can not exist.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
Wesley
Realy? not with an ordinary Tesla coil! I have seen Londetudinal wave experiments, it can assure you it can penetrate a steel box no faraday cage is of any use! and you can bank on that one.
Dave
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Realy? not with an ordinary Tesla coil! I have seen Londetudinal wave experiments, it can assure you it can penetrate a steel box no faraday cage is of any use! and you can bank on that one.
Dave
original Wesley's statement : electromagnetic longitudinal wave simply can not exist.
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Dave you have rights to express your opinion.
I think that Dave manifests problem with basic fundamental knowledge about physics of electromagnetic wave.
Here in this part of forum we ask you Dave for link/support/prove/or evidence of your statement if there is any.
When accepted and known laws of physics and its models are questioned by anyone it is nothing wrong with challenging such individuals.
We want the space of this forum to be condensed to maximum with valuable and useful data.
Wesley
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Luc,
Is the conventional explanation that far fetched?
Tesla performed one-wire transmission of power (https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/one-wire-transmission-of-energy/) via patent 593,138, and there is the occasional application in modern times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return) as well using high voltage and earth as a return.
The Tesla method above involves using real earth grounding at each end, and yours does not, but high voltage and/or high frequency currents can find their way to earth ground one way or the other. The TX and RX sites can be many kms apart because the earth is one large ground plane.
I don't know if your TC's would operate properly if the terminal caps were earth grounded to their own separate ground points, but it would be interesting to see if that worked and also increased the efficiency of energy transfer.
Regarding the question of lifting the entire experiment away from the earth to prove or disprove the earth return theory, I would say would be difficult to achieve. I envision two helicopters, each suspending a TC about 1000 feet off the ground, separated by 1000 feet.
One thing to consider; why does your experiment require high voltage, and/or high frequency to work? High voltage is easy to imagine, because it can involve the ionization of air molecules to create a conductive path, but what about high frequency? If energy is not being radiated via E-M waves, then might there be another mechanism involved that is creating a return path? If the above helicopter experiment still worked, then I might be inclined to think so. For example, could air behave like a RCL transmission line at high enough frequencies?
Another thing to consider; if a longitudinal wave is being transmitted and received, why is one wire between the two sites required?
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Wesley thanks for the invitation to reply. Personly I think it's down to Wesley to prove Logdetudinal waves don't exist perhaps on his other
thread, the old scientist had an excellent video with two biscuit tins one inside the other and transistor
Radio blaring away inside them, and the other experiment is incinerating paperwork in a sealed metal case, it worked perfectly.
Didn't the Lituwainian experiment use this phenomenon in its design? find that and you have your proof meanwhile have a look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjz-5Lqtxow (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjz-5Lqtxow) < please watch this video
https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html (https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html)
kind regards Dave
PS At uni we were always taught to ask when we can't get our heads around a problem, please explain.
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Answer provided to:DavidWolff
answers are for and against scalar wave:
Quote#1
A scalar wave is a purported type of electromagnetic wave that works outside physics as we know it.
The central conceit is that scalar waves restore certain useful aspects of Maxwell's equations "discarded"
in the 19 th century by those fools Heaviside, Hertz and Gibbs.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=scalar+waves+wikipedia&qs=SC&pq=scalar+wave+ikip%5bedia&sc=1-21&cvid=AC5BD92DBB2A417D8ADDF63E579A12F1&FORM=QBRE&sp=1 (https://www.bing.com/search?q=scalar+waves+wikipedia&qs=SC&pq=scalar+wave+ikip%5bedia&sc=1-21&cvid=AC5BD92DBB2A417D8ADDF63E579A12F1&FORM=QBRE&sp=1)
Quote#2
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/scalar-waves-is-this-a-complete-fabrication.238709/ (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/scalar-waves-is-this-a-complete-fabrication.238709/)
Wikipedia.org labels Scalar Wave theory as pseudoscience.
You need to provide some credible references (preferably in refereed professional journals),
or this thread will be deleted. We do not permit crackpot theories here on the PF.
Quote#3 however, later physicists assumed these equations were meaningless, since scalar waves had not been empirically observed and repeatedly
verified among the scientific community at large.
https://www.iawaketechnologies.com/faq/scalar-waves/ (https://www.iawaketechnologies.com/faq/scalar-waves/)
Quote#4
The theory is considered pseudoscience (nonsense) yet is widely promoted among reseachers looking for ‘free energy’ or ‘over unity’
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/physics/electromagnetism/scalar-waves
(https://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/physics/electromagnetism/scalar-waves)Didn't the Lituwainian experiment use this phenomenon in its design?
No it didn't. We were expecting NMR phenomena due to strong vibration of special ferrite from old Russian TV Rubin
That sound was also present in some versions of Akula and Ruslan devices.
In some of the samples tested the Yoke ferrite cracked
I don't see as of today any prove of existence of scalar waves
If you can not provide scientifically existing prove please just don't force the subject of scalar wave
Wesley
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Re Goubau line
"A Goubau line or Sommerfeld-Goubau line,[1] or G-line for short, is a single wire transmission line used to conduct radio waves at UHF and microwave frequencies."
"Ultra high frequency (UHF) is the ITU designation for radio frequencies in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz),"
I don't think 1Mhz is anywhere near either of that.
Why does an AC circuit NEED a completed path? Why can't you just drive a current between two capacitive masses across a coil?
C - L - C
L - some other coil to induce the current...
The electron cloud in a wire IS slightly elastic... or you couldn't send pulses of a higher frequency than the length of the wire. It is not in-compressable.
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"A Goubau line or Sommerfeld-Goubau line,/ G-line, is a single wire transmission line used
to conduct radio waves at UHF and microwave frequencies. in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz),"
I don't think 1Mhz is anywhere near either of that.
Wesley's answer :
Note#1: you can also create two cones structure with wire as explained in links
it will work also with magnet wire as that wire is coated with dielectric paint.
Note#2: some of you may have problem to identify it as Goubau due to slightly different configuration.
but we definitely deal with surface wave in dielectric!!!/ metal interface.
don't be surprised if it works also with non coated copper wire. Yes it will but the mechanism is exactly the same it will be copper/ air interface.
But if we talking about effectiveness of energy transmission than use Teflon coated wire
Note#3: it is not much difference if you use 1ft wide aluminum foil or you use wire.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539175/#msg539175 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539175/#msg539175)
Physics tends to give separate names to the same phenomena based on convenience of pointing at given area of it.
Example: light is electromagnetic wave and is part of electromagnetic spectrum but it is made from visible light, infrared ,ultraviolet.
It is convenient to use distinctive name for the type of surface wave at low frequencies and this is e.g Zenneck Wave.
The reflecting and propagating properties of Zenneck Wave are specific and unique to that particular range of electromagnetic surface wave phenomena.
Why does an AC circuit NEED a completed path? .
The simplest answer:
if there is no current flow, there is no rate of change and energy dissipation.For these who wants to have massage of your brain the controversy is discussed here:
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit)
Remaining unanswered part of comment of user:d3x0r was formulated not in condensed, precise and concise form having logical unity.
Logical Unity: logical unit of Logical Unity is a unique connection to an application program or to logically precise answer.
Another words: logically precise answer is possible due to very narrow and highly precise and direct question not bouncing around and not being reflected.
Physics has no emotions, feelings,and is apolitical .
Wesley
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all messages described in post
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539104/#msg539104 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539104/#msg539104)
are approved
Wesley
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Current can flow in an open wire... it's only a small current due to the capacitance of the metal itself.
This calculator (https://www.cirris.com/learning-center/calculators/174-cable-capacitance-calculator) has no dependancy on insulation type, air being as good as teflon, because it's not between the metal and dialectric, but just of the metal itself, when calculating the capcitance of a length of wire.
or this one (https://www.researchgate.net/post/How_to_calculate_the_theoretical_specific_capacitance_of_materials) to calculate the capcitance of a mass of meterial, given
Capacitance, C = n X F/M X V
Capacity = n X F/M X 3.6
Where, n is number of electron transfer, F is Faraday Constant, M is Molar mass, V is applied potential.
which then means a sphere of metal, varnished or naked (as used in most telsa coils) is the same capictance. It may be true that a varnished body of metal will hold a higher voltage, and be effecitvely more capacitance... but it's not really changing the capictance, just the ability to store more charge in the same capcitor.
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so, again, I can have quite a current flowing in a coil with two mass-capcitances (say a 3x3x3 block of aluminum at each end, similar to what stiffler was using on his stuff) and an inductor between it with an entirely open circuit; can store lots of energy in the resonant tank... and just need ANOTHER coil around it to extract energy from it.
While playing with toroidal(mobius wound) coils, I had lots of power transfered to the load, with the end of the coils connected to the load entirely open, and the windings themselves had very little internal/parasitic capacitance. Attaching the other end to ground gave more electrons available.... but then it was
ground-> coil -> LED-load -> coil ->ground (two different filaments on the same coil)
and once I had it started that way, I could just remove the ground and leave the ends of the coils tied together, and there was enough electrons in the circuit to continue; but it would not re-start in that configuration... and ends up back at a closed circuit, which is diverging from the original point that the open circuit without the grounds also worked.
coil -> LED-load ->coil (two different filaments on the same coil, with less than pico-farads of coupling between them... that is there's more capcitance in the wire than is shared between the two filaments.)
--
Edit: I've been on vacation for the past month, and a couple more weeks, when I get back home I'll do a more meaningful build along the lines of the topic.
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The real 100% Tesla Wireless Power Transmission can be found here:
http://www.tamaseduard.com/DOWNLOAD/file/T.E.L.T.mp4 (http://www.tamaseduard.com/DOWNLOAD/file/T.E.L.T.mp4)
http://www.TamasEduard.com (http://www.TamasEduard.com)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMK0B9ljNrc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMK0B9ljNrc)
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Current can flow in an open wire... it's only a small current due to the capacitance of the metal itself.
That is correct the higher the voltage the lower the current = power
That compared to safety standard:
International ICNIRP safety standards for RF current in the body in the Tesla coil frequency range of 0.1 - 1 MHz specify a maximum current density of 0.2 mA
per square centimeter and a maximum power absorption rate (SAR) in tissue of 4 W/kg in limbs and 0.8 W/kg average over the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil)
However trick is in understanding of the phenomena:
trick #1:
Line voltage is the voltage seen on the AC line, typically single phase. Line current is the current that results when that voltage is applied to a load.
http://www.engineering.com/Ask@/qactid/1/qaqid/1286.aspx (http://www.engineering.com/Ask@/qactid/1/qaqid/1286.aspx)
trick#2
is to understand this:
Capturing Surface Electromagnetic Energy into a DC through Single-Conductor Transmission Line at Microwave Frequencies
http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf
(http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf)
Think ABOUT signal in the wire or rather dielectric covering that wire - between two Tesla coils, - as surface wave.
Remember that surface wave existing in the interface is that what we focus our-self at.
Than read here:
Physics tends to give separate names to the same phenomena based on convenience of pointing at given area of it.
Example: light is electromagnetic wave and is part of electromagnetic spectrum but it is made from visible light, infrared ,ultraviolet.
It is convenient to use distinctive name for the type of surface wave at low frequencies and this is e.g Zenneck Wave.
The reflecting and propagating properties of Zenneck Wave are specific and unique to that particular range of electromagnetic surface wave phenomena.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539218/#msg539218 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539218/#msg539218)
conclusion:
Even if we mistakenly identified phenomena (by its very much unique name) in the wire( transmission line) between Tx Tesla coil and Rx Tesla coil having load,
we are always dealing with EM wave and that particular EM wave does not change its behavior when compared to Zenneck wave
Frequency of operation can be in kHz too (means : not in MHz and GHz)
Our wire can be replaced with aluminum foil 1ft wide and infinitely long and - it will behave the same way , however
the role of dielectric covering the wire in our Goubau line is now taken by air as dielectric creating interface with surface of that foil.
By its very much unique name it will no longer be named Goubau line it will be named Zenneck wave in the interface
if frequency is low.
Note : the missing two cones of original Goubau line creates confusion to some of you. That can be explained by small diameter of wire in Goubau line but it is not important here so I leave it as
it is.
Wesley
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hello
Finally i got to do some tests of my own.
Aprox. 450khz and 22.5volt 0.35 amp. 75 feet single wire transmission .
At load ( small automotive light bulb ) 22.5 v 0.75 amp .
I have failed to send surface wave . Tx was inside the building while testing so
hight of top load was limited. To me more important question is:
For surface wave do i need my ground to be in one vertical line with coil and top load??? Mine was not.
Is the image in the ground dependent on ground rod location ?
Next time how should i prepare myself? Having ground rod 3 or 4 feet away is ok or its no no??
Thx
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Just a note
Previous experiments presented by gotoLuc utilized parts and things on hand
When this topic was formally started orders were placed for components and pieces necessary to do a more focused or specific Zenneck topology as outlined in Wesley’s many contributions .
ATM Luc has an issue with his computor crashing .(no net access ATM for his personal acc’t)
He also has some other commitment (not FE related ..but definitely “green theme “ energy production)
Which he needs to get done these next few weeks .
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Luc,
Is the conventional explanation that far fetched?
Tesla performed one-wire transmission of power (https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/one-wire-transmission-of-energy/) via patent 593,138, and there is the occasional application in modern times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return) as well using high voltage and earth as a return.
The Tesla method above involves using real earth grounding at each end, and yours does not, but high voltage and/or high frequency currents can find their way to earth ground one way or the other. The TX and RX sites can be many kms apart because the earth is one large ground plane.
I don't know if your TC's would operate properly if the terminal caps were earth grounded to their own separate ground points, but it would be interesting to see if that worked and also increased the efficiency of energy transfer.
Regarding the question of lifting the entire experiment away from the earth to prove or disprove the earth return theory, I would say would be difficult to achieve. I envision two helicopters, each suspending a TC about 1000 feet off the ground, separated by 1000 feet.
One thing to consider; why does your experiment require high voltage, and/or high frequency to work? High voltage is easy to imagine, because it can involve the ionization of air molecules to create a conductive path, but what about high frequency? If energy is not being radiated via E-M waves, then might there be another mechanism involved that is creating a return path? If the above helicopter experiment still worked, then I might be inclined to think so. For example, could air behave like a RCL transmission line at high enough frequencies?
Another thing to consider; if a longitudinal wave is being transmitted and received, why is one wire between the two sites required?
Well, I'm not the only one that finds your explanation of the TC top capacitance completing the current loop "through ground" to be far fetched.
I explained your hypothesis to the 87yo retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist that comes for coffee each morning and his reply was, I don't think so.
He hasn't yet found an acceptable explanation on how the current loop occurs.
To further prove or disprove the possibility of ground transmission, I put together a new test using 3/4" x 10 feet long copper pipes as grounding rods 15 feet apart to verify if it's even possible to use the ground to replace the single wire.
Test results: https://youtu.be/1D8N8Jq5mzs (https://youtu.be/1D8N8Jq5mzs)
Regards
Luc
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Hi Luc,
Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?
I know the oscillator automatically follows the TX coil resonant frequency but the RX coil cannot do this, so in case the operating
TX frequency happens to change when you swap from the wire to the grounded copper pipe, the TX coil is happy to resonate at a
new frequency (the oscillator follows any change) but the RX coil may get detuned and this may be misleading when estimating
power transfer.
I am not saying this is the main reason why the bulb is not lit at all when the grounding is used, just a headups that the RX coil
may get detuned.
It is possible you have already tested such detuning effect?
Thanks,
Gyula
-
Hi Luc,
Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?
I know the oscillator automatically follows the TX coil resonant frequency but the RX coil cannot do this, so in case the operating
TX frequency happens to change when you swap from the wire to the grounded copper pipe, the TX coil is happy to resonate at a
new frequency (the oscillator follows any change) but the RX coil may get detuned and this may be misleading when estimating
power transfer.
I am not saying this is the main reason why the bulb is not lit at all when the grounding is used, just a headups that the RX coil
may get detuned.
It is possible you have already tested such detuning effect?
Thanks,
Gyula
Hi Gyula,
You have a good point there and I didn't think of confirming if the circuit frequency changed but I'll check that tomorrow.
However, I don't think it's a matter of the circuit detuning but rather a matter of introducing a resistance of 2k Ohm (I now measured) between the grounding rods compared to the 15 feet of 14 AWG wire which is only in the milli Ohms range.
So my thinking is. it's the grounds high resistance that's choking the power transfer.
The point of the demonstration was mostly to demonstrate how bad of a conductive path the ground is in my area which is the path poynt99 believes is how 15 watts worth of current is using as a return path through the ground between the TC top capacitance.
So if I can't transfer any power 15 feet away using 10 feet deep copper grounding rods, then how can the TC top capacitance do it?
I'll confirm if the circuit stays tuned to 1.1Mhz once connected to the grounding rod.
Regards
Luc
-
I did the DC test but the situation is the same for AC.
https://youtu.be/6t-WbWIqwhY
Of course, all devices correctly measure the 4ohm resistor
-
https://youtu.be/1vDRcrw41OI?t=37
Tesla and Kapanadze talked about the impulse. Each of us understands this. The focus should be on how to receive this energy by moving the coil into resonance with this impulse to slow down the response and thus extend the duration of action.
Is this a good explanation. Does anyone contradict Tesla's words when he says the impulse is MW or GigaW of energy ?! Probably not.
However, there are switching power supplies and they do not give more than they get what they do wrong or why it is not so obvious.
-
http://www.technoattic.by/page3_exp_VTTC_GU-50.html
https://youtu.be/PtG5nU34WQ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSi2bMJgtqw
...his channel
-
@gotoluc
you could maybe just spray down the ground with a hose ... 2k Ohm, that's really high. Thanks for measuring.
-
Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?
I have retested the setups using a scope and the self tuning resonance circuit stays at 1.1Mhz (TC resonant frequency) connected to wire or grounding rods.
Video demo: https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ (https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ)
Regards
Luc
-
I did the DC test but the situation is the same for AC.
https://youtu.be/6t-WbWIqwhY (https://youtu.be/6t-WbWIqwhY)
Of course, all devices correctly measure the 4ohm resistor
Hi r2fpl,
Using a multimeter is not the ideal way to measure actual resistance between grounding rods. It only give an estimate of the grounds conductivity. There are more specialized instrument for doing this which transmits and receives a signal, then computes the resistance.
@gotoluc
you could maybe just spray down the ground with a hose ... 2k Ohm, that's really high. Thanks for measuring.
Yes d3x0r, I agree but the point of the test was to demonstrate how bad of a conductor the ground is in my area.
This was a reply to poynt99 post, suggesting the currents return path is completed through the ground by coupling of Tesla coils top capacitance.
Electronic engineering states that, to deliver current there must be a return path (example: 2 wires)
So as far as an EE is concerned, it is not possible to transfer power using only one wire, there must be a return path somewhere.
I personally don't agree the ground can be considered as the return path in my area anyways and why I made this demonstration.
I have already demonstrated it's not done through the air by enclosing the receiver in a Faraday cage. So it's still unclear how this simple circuit can transfer power using only one wire at distances of 15 meters or more as demonstrated by this video r2fpl has found.
Link to 15 meter single wire power transfer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)
So an EE is unable to explain how this can possibly work because the teachings have remained limited till today.
Tesla knew of this misunderstanding over 100 years ago and tried to educate by demonstrating but was cut off by the influences of the time.
Regards
Luc
-
I have retested the setups using a scope and the self tuning resonance circuit stays at 1.1Mhz (TC resonant frequency) connected to wire or grounding rods.
Video demo: https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ (https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ)
Regards
Luc
I believe gyula was referring to the receiver coil changing frequency when connected to earth, in which case you may need more or less capacitance in the top load. The sandy ground, as you mentioned, doesn't provide the mineral content between the ground pair needed for a lower resistance. If you watered the ground around the rods, this would expand the area in which the current can flow ( instead of the small area of just the rod ) and lower resistance. A "good" ground would be a deep ground, one that penetrated the water table where minerals and moisture is abundant.
-
Hi Luc,
Thanks for checking the operating frequency for the two cases.
Let me notice the followings:
-- you pay attention to the frequency of 1.1 MHz and not to the decimals and I think that the loaded Q of the two secondary coils may remain relatively high. From your scope display the frequency is 1.147 MHz for the direct wire connection and is 1.137 MHz for the grounded pipe connection. This roughly 10 kHz change at the TX coil frequency could mean a significant detuning when we are dealing with high Q RX and TX circuits.
However, the RX coil frequency would change roughly in the same amount and direction the TX coil's frequency does when their bottom wires are grounded to the pipes so the 10 kHz change can safely be neglected indeed.
So here I assume the pipes may detune both coils in the same amount so both coils may remain closely tuned to each other as you carefully tuned them with the singly wire connection. I answer this also to member znel's comment above, it was easier to check the TX coil frequency change than that of the RX coil. The tuning on the RX coil would be the best as he has mentioned by changing the top load capacitance, and I add to use a low power LED as an indicator instead of the incandescent bulb. But there is no real need to do this, it is sure there is a certain amount of energy transfer towards the RX coil but ground losses certainly limit it.
-- you measure the ground's DC resistance between the pipes as 2 kOhm. Unfortunately, ground resistance (or rather) impedance is frequency dependent too. I agree what you wrote to member r2fpl on measuring ground conductivity, it is a complex issue and conductivity may change due to change in the moisture content of the soil etc as znel mentioned.
Regarding Tesla, I think he ultimately wished to resonate the entire Earth by the magnifying transmitter for the high efficiency (over 95-96%) energy transfer and this would not involve the Earth's conductivity in the sense his earlier coil transmitters (by single wire or via air) or your present tests would.
Gyula
I have retested the setups using a scope and the self tuning resonance circuit stays at 1.1Mhz (TC resonant frequency) connected to wire or grounding rods.
Video demo: https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ (https://youtu.be/ISaLhHcMkVQ)
Regards
Luc
-
Hi r2fpl,
Using a multimeter is not the ideal way to measure actual resistance between grounding rods it only give an estimate of the grounds conductivity. There are more specialized instrument for doing this which transmits and receives a signal, then computes the resistance.
Yes d3x0r, I agree but the point of the test was to demonstrate how bad of a conductor the ground is in my area.
This was a reply to poynt99 post, suggesting the currents return path is completed through the ground by coupling of Tesla coils top capacitance.
STATEMENT :
Electronic engineering states that, to deliver current there must be a return path (example: 2 wires)
So as far as an EE is concerned, it is not possible to transfer power using only one wire, there must be a return path somewhere.
RELATED NON CONVENTIONAL EE-DEVICE :
https://www.google.com/search?q=avramenko+1-+wire+plug&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m
I personally don't agree the ground can be considered as the return path in my area anyways and as demonstrated.
I have already demonstrated it's not done through the air by enclosing the receiver in a Faraday cage. So it's still unclear how this simple circuit can transfer power using only one wire at distances of 15 meters or more as demonstrated by this video r2fpl has found.
Link to 15 meter single wire power transfer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)
So an EE is unable to explain how this can possibly work because the teachings have remained limited till today.
Tesla knew of this misunderstanding over 100 years ago and tried to educate by demonstrating but was cut off by the influences of the time.
Regards
Luc
-
you pay attention to the frequency of 1.1 MHz and not to the decimals and I think that the loaded Q of the two secondary coils may remain relatively high. From your scope display the frequency is 1.147 MHz for the direct wire connection and is 1.137 MHz for the grounded pipe connection. This roughly 10 kHz change at the TX coil frequency could mean a significant detuning when we are dealing with high Q RX and TX circuits.
Since we are not dealing with a clean sine wave in both cases the scope averages the frequency based on the wave form shape. The very small difference in frequency the scope displays may not at all be a real change in frequency from the circuit but from a small change in the sine wave shape. Look closely at each wave shape and I'm quite sure you will see a small difference and hence the change.
I'm use to seeing these small digital artifacts affect the frequency data on a digital scope and why I ignored the digits below 1.1Mhz
I'm very confident the transmitter coil is locked at the same resonating frequency in both cases.
However, the RX coil frequency would change roughly in the same amount and direction the TX coil's frequency does when their bottom wires are grounded to the pipes so the 10 kHz change can safely be neglected indeed.
Yes, I agree.
So here I assume the pipes may detune both coils in the same amount so both coils may remain closely tuned to each other as you carefully tuned them with the singly wire connection. I answer this also to member znel's comment above, it was easier to check the TX coil frequency change than that of the RX coil. The tuning on the RX coil would be the best as he has mentioned by changing the top load capacitance, and I add to use a low power LED as an indicator instead of the incandescent bulb. But there is no real need to do this, it is sure there is a certain amount of energy transfer towards the RX coil but ground losses certainly limit it.
The point of the experiment was to consider the ground (in my area) as a possible current return path. So to reduce load and retune should not be necessary but I do understand why it's mentioned.
you measure the ground's DC resistance between the pipes as 2 kOhm. Unfortunately, ground resistance (or rather) impedance is frequency dependent too. I agree what you wrote to member r2fpl on measuring ground conductivity, it is a complex issue and conductivity may change due to change in the moisture content of the soil etc as znel mentioned.
Yes, I agree, ground impedance needs a special instrument to measure.
I made a video demo of such an Instrument I have access to: https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM (https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM)
Regarding Tesla, I think he ultimately wished to resonate the entire Earth by the magnifying transmitter for the high efficiency (over 95-96%) energy transfer and this would not involve the Earth's conductivity in the sense his earlier coil transmitters (by single wire or via air) or your present tests would.
Yes, again, totally agree. Tesla wanted to offer mankind much more then just the AC Grid.
I also agree that ground conductivity was not how Tesla's ultimate technology worked.
I'm only playing with this as a starting point but interestingly enough, just this one wire power transmission is enough to rattle the present EE beliefs.
The magnifying transmitter is beyond belief.
Regards
Luc
-
Https://vizivtechnologies.com commercial transmission co FYI Using Zenneck waves
-
http://Https://vizivtechnologies.com (http://Https://vizivtechnologies.com) commercial transmission co FYI Using Zenneck waves
Yes Jimboot, we are well aware of them. However, fact is still 99% of the electrical engineering establishment do not believe what they claim is possible.
It will remain a pipe dream until the day they publicly provide the service they claim.
Even then they'll have to deal with maybe years of 3rd party verification's before "The Establishment" is ready to rewrite the possibility of efficient high power wireless transmission.
Understand that even one wire power transmission is not possible according to "The Establishment"
Any educated engineer will tell you current must have a return path.
So just proving efficient one wire power transmission alone will be quite a feat!!!
Regards
Luc
-
Two different tests to verify ground rod impedance and ground resistance between the two 10 feet deep copper grounding rods.
Video demo: https://youtu.be/yAzWwAbDpFk (https://youtu.be/yAzWwAbDpFk)
Regards
Luc
-
It looks like you guys didn't read what I wrote in here and in
Wesley's Kapanadze and other FE discussion forum
I'm not so much available now to respond as I have major Jewish holiday, and that's few days.
short note:
1. you don't much care what is the resistance of the ground however it may help
2. you are not much interested what is the current in the ground, however it may help .
3. The Goubau line is made not by use of single wire ,but by use of single wire coated with dielectric that creates interface.
and the line between two Tesla coils will work only if you have interface.
3a.depends from frequency it may need the TAPER as explained here:
http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf (http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf)
Capturing Surface Electromagnetic Energy into a DC through Single-Conductor Transmission Line at Microwave Frequencies
3b. non coated copper wire will work as well , but if it is not coated than role of dielectric is taken by air.
And space between air and wire is called interface however nobody tends to recognize it this way.
If you use air as dielectric than you have a lot of losses
4. So how it is that for Goubau line you need to have wire that is coated with dielectric?
Answer: first we need to understand what is interface.:
it is space or rather plane or area between two media with different dielectric or conductive properties.
that includes earth that now is named: LOSSY CONDUCTIVE MEDIUM.( google it)
examples of interface:
1- dielectric and another dielectric with different dielectric properties
such as teflon and polyamide one on the top of another. The space between them is your interface.
for your eye there is no space but for EM wave it is.
2- dielectric and conductive medium
such as copper foil( conductive medium) and air (dielectric)
Because the surface of 1ft wide aluminum foil is better than surface of wire used in Goubau line than we have much less losses if condition needed for energy transmission is met.
example of this interface is here:
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=369)
3- lossy conductive medium and dielectric
such as earth and air.
there are more types of interface and these interfaces works little different at different frequencies.
That means interface will always be the same interface but means of feeding EM wave into the interface and out may be characteristic to given frequency range.
Failures:
The failure of your experiments can be caused also by:
1. lack of impedance match.
2. lack of proper polarization AND BREWSTER ANGLE - that is done (at its easiest) by changing elevation of top capacitor . HV Tesla coil must be vertical to the ground
3. lack of resonance in both the Tx and Rx Tesla coils
4. standing wave is:
stationary wave, is a wave (https://www.bing.com/search?q=Wave%20wikipedia) which oscillates in time but whose peak amplitude profile does not move in space.
so you need to free some of its energy and feed it into interface at right Brewster angle.
5. your two coil the Tx and Rx system, between two points A and B is reactive system.
that means its capacitive and inductive - (reactive components ) reactances will be the most important despite the distance between the points. (e.g 30m or 30 000 meters it is always going to be the same dependency present)
6 .wood is not the dielectric for us.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=412 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=412)
That video shows also the difference between dielectric suitable for us and wood table)
the interface is made by surface of dielectric and air
even if there is not receiving Tesla coil it is capacitive coupling
of lightbulb and my hand -that is my body as part of resonance circuit
7. improper mode of your EM wave
That means that EM wave in its regular form is TEM ( google it)
Your TEM wave in the interface is now at TM mode-transverse magnetic mode. ( google it)
Note:
behavior of TEM in Near Field is different that in Far Field
typically the Brewster Angle from Top Capacitor down to Earth is reaching Earth at end of Near Field
However if Top Capacitor is elevated low above the ground than distance from the bottom of the Tesla Coil to the
point of line drown from Top Capacitor to the Earth surface at 65 to 67 degrees may be shorter than
the end of Near Field or it can "land" on Earth( - the lossy conductive medium) at Fresnel Zone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_zone)
so the recommended distance between two Tesla Coils the Tx and Rx at 1.1MHz is more than 21m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_and_far_field)
Note:
Please understand that TEM in TM mode is NON-RADIATIVE !!!!!
that means as you are in Far Field you cant receive it in air.
It is not radiating.
Wesley
-
Transfer energy: https://youtu.be/kg2YG_cWz14
-
Yes Jimboot, we are well aware of them. However, fact is still 99% of the electrical engineering establishment do not believe what they claim is possible.
It will remain a pipe dream until the day they publicly provide the service they claim.
Even then they'll have to deal with maybe years of 3rd party verification's before "The Establishment" is ready to rewrite the possibility of efficient high power wireless transmission.
Understand that even one wire power transmission is not possible according to "The Establishment"
Any educated engineer will tell you current must have a return path.
So just proving efficient one wire power transmission alone will be quite a feat!!!
Regards
Luc
Got it.
Ressurecting some coils. Great setup as usual luc. Thanks Wesley for the cheat sheet.
-
Thank you Wesley for your posts and details.
Please don't think we are not reading your posts or following your instruction, we are reading but taking very small steps at a time.
We have a retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist who comes for coffee every morning and looks at my experiments.
As far as he is concerned , one wire power transmission is not possible let alone long distance efficient wireless power transmission.
We also have EE poynt99 (member here) who also believes one wire power transmission is not possible. So, we are taking our time by doing extra tests trying to satisfy all the possibilities of current return paths.
At this point our Lockheed Martin EE, Physicist is in a confused state as he can no longer explain how the circuit works since we have eliminated most of all possible current return paths.
I'm sharing some of my tests here to help (or maybe confuse) other EE
Hopefully soon we will be moving forward to wireless power transmission by applying what you have been sharing.
Kind regards
Luc
-
I got few minutes to respond
Fallowing comment is related to one wire transmission of energy known also as Goubau line
Fallowing comment must be read in association with comment indicated by link right below.
in regards to very condensed:
- list of steps to succeed
- list of possible errors
- terms and phenomena needed to be learned and understood
-and very condensed explanation of how to transfer energy from point A to B using different forms of interface
that was explained here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539357/#msg539357 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539357/#msg539357)
There is a misunderstanding of some of you standing that
that electrical loop must be closed for the current to flow.
simple answer:
EM (Electro-Magnetic) Electromagnetic wave doesn't need closed loop nor cares about it.
This type of phenomena is related to EM and NOT to electrical circuit and its laws.
here is explanation:
EM wave known also as TEM in TM Mode is a must to have to transfer Energy from point A to B on the Earth/air interface
or any other type of interface listed in link from above
1.-TEM is Transverse Electromagnetic Wave
is a mode of propagation where the electric and magnetic field lines are all restricted to directions normal (transverse)
to the direction of propagation. Plane waves are TEM, however, we are more interested in what types of transmission lines can support TEM.
- TEM mode is the preferred mode in coax (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/coax). Under proper conditions, all E-field lines run radially, while magnetic field lines run in circles around the center conductor.
1a.- Criteria for TEM propagation in transmission lines Five conditions for TEM propagation in a transmission line are below. Most textbooks get the top four correct but fail to mention (5)...
1. Fields are contained in uniform, isotropic dielectric (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/isotropy-and-anisotropy) material (excludes microstrip). For TEM, there is never a calculation of Keffective (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/keffective) needed!
2. Two or more conductors are required (excludes rectangular waveguide, but includes parallel-plate waveguide)
3. The conductors must have infinite conductivity. The IR drop across the conductor bends the E-field ever so slightly going forward.
4. The dielectric must be lossless.
5. The cross-section of the transmission line must remain constant (excludes certain types of slow-wave structures (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/slow-wave-structures))
Conditions (3) and (4) make it impossible to create pure TEM unless you have access to superconductors (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/superconductors) and a zero-gravity lab so you don't have to support the conductors. But these rules are splitting hairs and can usually be ignored in real life.
here is the link: https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/transverse-electro-magnetic (https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/transverse-electro-magnetic)
==============================================================
After you read it you may partially forget it as this is not the most important for you to know.
==============================================================
And now you are ready to go to that what is important to understand:
1. Basics of TEM, TE, and TM propagation (https://www.testandmeasurementtips.com/basics-of-tem-te-and-tm-propagation/)
2. Easy Explanation of TE and TM modes for Waveguides | Electromagnetic Field Theory Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHZB7iDi1w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHZB7iDi1w)
Note: interface is a form of waveguide as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIABIU3tRw&t=5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIABIU3tRw&t=5s)
Wesley
-
Thank you Wesley for your posts and details.
Please don't think we are not reading your posts or following your instruction, we are reading but taking very small steps at a time.
We have a retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist who comes for coffee every morning and looks at my experiments.
As far as he is concerned , one wire power transmission is not possible let alone long distance efficient wireless power transmission.
We also have EE poynt99 (member here) who also believes one wire power transmission is not possible. So, we are taking our time by doing extra tests trying to satisfy all the possibilities of current return paths.
At this point our Lockheed Martin EE, Physicist is in a confused state as he can no longer explain how the circuit works since we have eliminated most of all possible current return paths.
I'm sharing some of my tests here to help (or maybe confuse) other EE
Hopefully soon we will be moving forward to wireless power transmission by applying what you have been sharing.
Kind regards
Luc
Luc,
Why do you say that you can't send energy to a light bulb with one wire? I've done it a long time ago. It is very easy.
All we need is TT + kacher + wire + bulb + ground. That's all. There is no closed circuit connection. If you want it will show in the movie. You can do it yourself.
Each fluorescent lamp within a tesla coil radius proves that there is energy transmission !!!
-
Luc,
Why do you say that you can't send energy to a light bulb with one wire? I've done it a long time ago. It is very easy.
All we need is TT + kacher + wire + bulb + ground. That's all. There is no closed circuit connection. If you want it will show in the movie. You can do it yourself.
Each fluorescent lamp within a tesla coil radius proves that there is energy transmission !!!
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
So if you are a graduated EE like poynt99 or the retired EE & Physicist that visits the lab where I do experiments, you would be looking to explain how the current path is completed.
Poynt99 hypothesized that the current return path was completed through the ground (wireless) all the way to the top capacitance of the Tesla coils.
The retired EE & Physicist first hypothesized the current return path was completed through the air (like radio transmissions)
Each engineer will have their own version or explanation of how the current return path is completed but note none of them will consider it's all done through one wire since that's contrary to their teachings.
I have no problem believing efficient high power one wire transmission is possible, since I have not been trained by the establishment.
But for those that have, they will not surrender until they find how the current path is completed.
I had no idea of the EE teachings on this subject had no exceptions until the retired EE & Physicist told me about it.
So I'm sharing it here because many experimenters here are not EE let alone Physicists and may assume one wire power transmission is commonly excepted but it's not.
So it may be good to know this if you engaged in an exchange with an EE and why I'm taking the time to share this.
Regards
Luc
-
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
So if you are a graduated EE like poynt99 or the retired EE & Physicist that visits the lab where I do experiments, you would be looking to explain how the current path is completed.
Poynt99 hypothesized that the current return path was completed through the ground (wireless) all the way to the top capacitance of the Tesla coils.
The retired EE & Physicist first hypothesized the current return path was completed through the air (like radio transmissions)
Each engineer will have their own version or explanation of how the current return path is completed but note none of them will consider it's all done through one wire since that's contrary to their teachings.
I have no problem believing efficient high power one wire transmission is possible, since I have not been trained by the establishment.
But for those that have, they will not surrender until they find how the current path is completed.
I had no idea of the EE teachings on this subject had no exceptions until the retired EE & Physicist told me about it.
So I'm sharing it because many experimenters here are not EE let alone Physicists and may assume one wire power transmission to be commonly excepted.
Regards
Luc
The explanation is probably very simple. This is an electron jump and alignment between + and - except that the potential difference relative to mass (earth) is constantly generated.
Does light or sound; (wave) have to return to the source?
Energy transfer using the TT coil has more than two possibilities.
-
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
Regards
Luc
simple answer:
in our case and in your recent experiment:
EM (Electro-Magnetic) Electromagnetic wave doesn't need closed loop nor cares about it.
This type of phenomena is related to EM and NOT to electrical circuit and its laws.
more of it is here.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539371/#msg539371 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539371/#msg539371)
Wesley
-
Since we are not dealing with a clean sine wave in both cases the scope averages the frequency based on the wave form shape. The very small difference in frequency the scope displays may not at all be a real change in frequency from the circuit but from a small change in the sine wave shape. Look closely at each wave shape and I'm quite sure you will see a small difference and hence the change.
I'm use to seeing these small digital artifacts affect the frequency data on a digital scope and why I ignored the digits below 1.1Mhz
I'm very confident the transmitter coil is locked at the same resonating frequency in both cases.
...
Hi Luc,
Yes, that is okay what you say on the digital scope frequency measurement when the measured signal is not fully 'clean'. I mentioned the 10 kHz difference because it can steadily be seen at the second decimal places: 1.147 MHz and 1.137 MHz, and only the third and fourth decimal frequency values change for the case when the coils' bottom wires are grounded to the pipes. But the 10 kHz or so frequency change is a small and negligible issue, especially if we accept that both coils are pulled (downwards) by about 10 kHz. The loaded Q for both coils very likely remains high and this establishes the operating frequency stability for both coils. As you know, the unloded Q comes from XL/R where R is any coil's DC resistance and L is the inductance for any coil. XL should be calculated for 1.1 MHz.
The ground resistance meter you show is an interesting instrument. Unfortunately the user manual for it does not include the measuring frequency it uses for ground resistance, at least I did not find any reference in its user manual for this make and type
https://manualzz.com/doc/7219334/ground-tester-manual (https://manualzz.com/doc/7219334/ground-tester-manual) .
I found another make and type, with similar specs and it uses 3.333 kHz measuring frequency when in the ground resistance measurement mode (page 17 in pdf file https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf (https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf) ). It is very likely your meter also uses a some kHz test signal in ground resistance mode.
You measured 440 Ohm for one of the copper pipe groundings, does the other pipe have a similar resistance I wonder. When you have time would you check both at the same time.
And in case your meter indeed uses less than 10 kHz test frequency or around that, then your ground resistance can be different at the 1.1 MHz frequency the coils resonate at. The 440 Ohm ground resistance measured at the likely some kHz frequency is much less than the near 2 kOhm DC ground resistance.
Thanks for your efforts and sharing the results.
Gyula
-
Although we in the interface deal with something that looks like two dimensional space it is helpful first to look at TEM from the perspective of waveguide
I was looking for easy way to explain TE and TM mode but instead going to mathematics lets take look at behavior of wave in closed space
or to be more exact - enclosed space by walls of waveguide .
First and foremost important is that:
- TEM (Transverse ElectroMagnetic) wave, is the wave that is limited in its ability to move to given direction
as
- regular ElectroMagnetic wave can propagate omnidirectionally from single point source - such as Tx( Transmitter)
So by giving a direction or limiting EM wave we creating TEM wave that is exactly the same but now directional.
The waveguide is the device that limits wave in its ability to propagate to just given direction of our choice.
The surface wave in the interface such as Zenneck Wave behaves in similar way to that of waveguide however later on we need to point at differences specific to this behavior in interface.
The quite easy video explaining limitations imposed by us to EM wave causing it to become TEM in TE or TM mode is explained here to some extend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_zKHNYn8Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_zKHNYn8Q)
If we have no impedance match at the Rx side with Tx than we will have one of fallowing:
-short circuit
-open circuit
-no load or load that along with our Rx is not matching impedance of Tx.
remember our system of Tx and Rx with interface or with waveguide is the reactive system
In all of the cases we will have reflected wave that will affect our Tx and may even damage it.
and now lets go to specific time in the first video from above here:
https://youtu.be/YQ_zKHNYn8Q?t=245 (https://youtu.be/YQ_zKHNYn8Q?t=245)
- the lector is talking about impedance mismatch.
after you watch that part go here:
and see visual representation of what happened if we have lets say short at end of waveguide ( the effect for all of the cases short open or improper load will be similar- it will be impedance mismatch )
the video named:
A TEM waveguide with a Short Circuit
shows:
The Propagation of a TEM wave in a TEM transmission line with a short circuit on the right side.
Absorbing boundary conditions ABC are placed in the left side.
A sine wave excitation is injected from the left side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-CDmAkJaDc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-CDmAkJaDc)
Wesley
-
To understand that what was written above the beginner needs to understand what is Transverse movement of wave in given direction
and by that it will be easier to understand what I meant while talking about Magnetic field or Electric field perpendicular to direction of propagation.
That makes easier to understand TE and TM mode .
So lets go to basics:
For these who have problem to understand what is Transverse Wave but not yet directional Transverse Magnetic wave
Here is video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iO81v42dQA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iO81v42dQA)
Wesley
-
Thanks Wesley, I like Luc’s approach of small steps and I like your distinction of the behavior of the gobau line and why a return path is not required. I’ve watched a few of your vids and have altered models accordingly so I can adjust height of top load .
I’ll working with old coils and building a new circuit and I’m waaaaay less proficient than luc and have less time to dedicate. When I get stuck though I’ll be coming back to your posts. I have enough room here to erect something big ;D
-
#1
video made by non professional but talking about the historical facts and one of them is 2018 establishing
office in Bahrain by NewPower cooperating with Viziv Texzon
watch it from here:
https://youtu.be/GZV7-keRFq8?t=1291 (https://youtu.be/GZV7-keRFq8?t=1291)
conclusion:
despite all of the skepticism Corum brothers who are the source of everything around using their business with high rank of former lobbyist,military, known
figures in politics are pushing oil industry to consider:
- what will be the future of oil?
-what will happened if oil industry will be ignoring them?
-will they be willing to cooperate and put billions of their own money to be at the right side at the right time.?
There is no place for everyone there, as someone must be a loser.
Chevron is already sucked into it and Milford Texas Tesla Tower ins the result of that.
For us Viziv is only training ground.
Learning how to send energy from point A to B is mandatory to have practical and theoretical skills to get to the next step:
Extraction of Energy from Schumann waveguide.
============================================================================
#2
I have enough room here to erect something big ;D
Size is not so much important. :)
The reason why Viziv is so big is:
- the voltage and power foreseen/ expected (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+expect) · envisioned (https://www.bing.com/search?q=define+envision) as to be transferred by the tower.
- the frequency of operation 18kHz , Corum Bro's don't yet use CC and CCW winding technique to make coil smaller.,
To make tests with smaller coil:
- the frequency of tests can be as high as 54Mhz..
- the transmitter can be typical Ham transceiver with typical 100W# PEP.( use it only at 10W as you may burn the power transistors due to impedance mismatch)
-at any of ham bands the Ham is allowed to have legal tests .
-the mode of operation CW ( use it in CW at best with electronic keyer , not continuous CW!! as you may burn the power transistors due to impedance mismatch)
-the structure and first tests can be done from starting scratch in 1 day.(at best using 2 people.)
-The structure can stay there and be used many times with alterations done later.
legal note: HV is dangerous I don't take any responsibility for anything you do.
that note applies to all of my posts and comments in here and in any other pace.
If I'm not the Ham than I must use e.g, - the friend who has FCC approved license to operate at Ham frequencies.
The best advice is do nothing :) heee.
Wesley
-
Thanks Wesley for all the details.
Here are my v 2.0 secondary Tesla coils side by side with the first set I tested.
The new ones are wound on 39" inches long 4" i.d. pvc sewage pipe.
1400 turns of 22 AWG
Wesley, I have a question regarding the primary coil. Could I use 3/8 flexible copper pipe instead of Litz wire?... which is best?... does copper mass matter?
Kind regards
Luc
-
Yes you can and yes it is recommended
By the way, great job .
http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html
it doesn't have to be flat coil
Wesley
-
I found another make and type, with similar specs and it uses 3.333 kHz measuring frequency when in the ground resistance measurement mode (page 17 in pdf file https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf (https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf) ). It is very likely your meter also uses a some kHz test signal in ground resistance mode.
3.3kHz sound about like the frequency of my meter. Listen to the (below) video again which I purposely brought the camera mic close to the meter and you can clearly hear it. You can download this free audio spectrum analyzer http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html (http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html) to find the peak frequency.
https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM (https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM)
You measured 440 Ohm for one of the copper pipe groundings, does the other pipe have a similar resistance I wonder. When you have time would you check both at the same time.
Today the original grounding rod I measured with the impedance meter is 340 Ohms and the second one is 640 Ohms
Regards
Luc
-
Yes you can and yes it is recommended
By the way, great job .
http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html (http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html)
it doesn't have to be flat coil
Wesley
Thanks for the reply Wesley
How many turns of 3/8" copper pipe as primary would be needed?
Regards
Luc
-
what is said down here :
don't take it to consideration yet.
it is just good to know it.
#1
Comment under video listed below is not mine but I like it very much.
It says about CW / CCW / bifilar winding method that can be used for e.g HV Tesla coil
to get less winds and lower frequency of resonance but still get required 1/4th of wavelength or
1/24 or lower but still "resonating" as if it was 1/4th. ( quarterwave )
Tariel Kapanadze used this method in his coil.
Monofilar and bifilar gives the same DC resistance.
What is different is high frequency impedance.
Bifilar gives lower self resonance frequency.
The principle is that there is a certain parasite capacitance between coil windings, which stores a certain amount of energy.
By winding the coil bifilar, you get substantial bigger voltage differences between adjacent windings and therefore more energy
is being stored in these parasite/self capacitances.
Since the energy stored in a capacitor equals 1/2 C V^2 ( Energy Stored on a Capacitor ),
this is a significant difference in the amount of energy that is being stored in the coils self capacitance.
And since in resonance, this energy is being flipped back and forth between the capacitance (voltage) and the inductance (current, magnetic component).
You get significantly stronger oscillations with bifilar coil at resonance frequency.
Tesla Bifilar Coil DC Resistance: Pancake (1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fTf9IlPYmY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fTf9IlPYmY)
by TinselKoala.
=======================================================================
#2
https://www.teslacoildesign.com/design.html (https://www.teslacoildesign.com/design.html)
=======================================================================
#3
Two coil or double-resonant circuits - Virtually all present Tesla coils use the two coil resonant transformer,
consisting of a primary winding to which current pulses are applied, and a secondary winding that produces the high voltage, invented by Tesla in 1891.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil)
=======================================================================
this is just funny video for your entertainment only:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSXi3BkkNA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSXi3BkkNA)
Wesley
-
Luc,
Allow me to ask this:
- Will your power transmission work without the top load capacitors in place?
- If the top terminal is one plate of a capacitor, where or what is the second plate?
- How do capacitors work?
btw, for the record, I am not an EE (and I don't believe I've ever claimed to be).
-
I was going to be challenging again; but deleted that.
I did run with the dielectric being important....
Vaccuum = 1
air = 1.00000036 or something, basically vaccuum
ptfe/teflon is only at 2.1... (I'll have to strip some wire and see if I really get 2x capacitance with the insulation...)
water though is (87.9, 80.2, 55.5) @ (0, 20, 100 °C) Edit: (:) ya, or vodka)
. should be able to run a single conductor through water and get a really good dielectric self-capacitance increase.
though they seem to call it Relative permittivity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_permittivity) suppose that's why they use water in super caps?
---
Re copper pipe primary - tesla coil builders suggest that it be a proportion of the secondary... though when doing a kacher sort of circuit, anywhere from 1 to 12 windings worked, but the resonant frequency would change. There is some sweet balance I'm sure between the inductance/magnetic reactance of the primary vs the secondary that will probably exist, but that's starting to be mechanically resonant. (no help, just personal observations)
-
How many turns of 3/8" copper pipe as primary would be needed?
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=661 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=661)
look here at 2200m
it is 8 turns.
but gauge AWG 1, 2 or 4 electrical wire is perfectly Ok too.
Voltage is determined by turns ratio between primary and secondary not by the gauge.
Here you have calculator:
https://www.teslascientific.com/products/coil-inductance-calculator/ (https://www.teslascientific.com/products/coil-inductance-calculator/)
keep in mind that Tesla coil is a radio frequency (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Radio_frequency) oscillator (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Electronic_oscillator) that drives an air-core double-tuned resonant transformer (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Resonant_inductive_coupling)
https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Tesla_coil (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Tesla_coil)
spark gap (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Spark_gap) to excite oscillations in the tuned transformer. More sophisticated designs use transistor (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Transistor) or thyristor (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Thyristor)[15] (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Tesla_coil#cite_note-Haddad-15)
switches or vacuum tube (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Vacuum_tube) electronic oscillators (https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Electronic_oscillator) to drive the resonant transformer.
So in early Tariel Kapanadze devices use of spark gap was the easiest way to create wide envelope of suitable frequencies
(at wide bandwidth)
Depends from:
- spark gap distance between electrodes
- voltage delivered to the spark gap
-material used to make spark gap
the Frequencies of very small amplitude growing up to its maximum and that falling down to its minimum
created quite wide top resonance frequencies of few kHz wide amplitude only when:
- given primary winding was tuned by use of capacitor or by puling out/in winds (and by that changing diameter of coil)
So the spark gap by itself made spectrum of frequencies that Have been than shaped/ determined/ dependent
from resonant frequency of primary winding.
However secondary winding has its own resonant frequency-ies ,so function of primary is to deliver electrical potential to secondary.
Because you have ratio of winds of primary vs secondary than like in every transformer voltage at secondary will depend
from that ratio.
e.g if primary is:
- 1 wind/1V than at secondary having 1000 winds (ratio 1:1000) ,voltage = 1000V
and if
- 3 winds/1V than at secondary having 1000 winds ( ratio 3:1000) ,voltage = 333.33V
- 8 winds/1V than at secondary having 1000 winds ( ratio 8:1000) ,voltage = 125.V
so someone may ask why I need all of this?
example:
we have two coil structure Rx and Tx.
if your Tx secondary winding of Tesla coil is in resonance but frequency it is not much stable and is drifting left/ right
than if it is feed by nice good stable generator the bandwidth of this resonance will be narrow.
So Rx( another the same Tesla coil) at some distance from Tx must be sharp tuned to this particular frequency.
But if Rx frequency drifts or Tx frequency drifts than you have no energy transfer from Tx to Rx.
However if you have spark gap in Tx than:
-if Tx drifts than due to wide frequency spectrum created by spark Gap is at high amplitude close to its maximum center and Tx will
transmit at just slightly lower power at closest adjacent frequency to the frequency it drifted from.
Than at some distance we have Rx that can be retuned if needed or just left alone as the energy received is still at satisfactory level.
Summary:
spark gap just is easy way to keep Rx - Tx energy level if system drifts.So what is better generator or spark gap?
It depends from how good and stable is your mechanical structure of Tesla Coil in terms of:
- mechanical rigidity
- heat absorption and exchange
- stability of top capacitor positioning
- rigidity of capacitive and inductive elements if your structure.
- preventivness (no streamers, sparks all around)
Note: difficult to read but valuable information is here if someone wants to play with spark gap.
but also ab out structure of Tesla coil and coupling
https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/operatn2.html (https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/operatn2.html)
Wesley
-
If there are countless resonances generated by the spark gap, how are they received and the power generated?
Many people have experimented with Tesla coils and no one has shown anything interesting for an increase in power. Facts: all tesla coils operate rather at frequencies> 800kHz. We don't know what will happen when we reach <100 kHz? maybe it will be the same but maybe nothing more than the right frequency with a narrow range is important! What frequency could it be? Kapanadze only once mentions that it is about 200kHz.
-
Answer to r2fpl:
if you look at picture from above
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image// (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image//)
you see that at max resonance you have significant power increase but at 210khz and 228kHz you have quite wide range of frequencies at 75%
of its maximum resonat power and that energy is ready to be used by drifting Tesla structure.
You are not interested with big power for your experiment.
But if you use single frequency generator than you limited to just 218.6 kHz at 100% of power
Your Tx and Rx must not be drifting more than few hundred Hz.
So spark gap is not efficient but is convenient way to go.
Viziv Tower operates at 20kHz/18kHz so if you say that: most of Tesla coils are resonating at 800kHz it is only your own opinion shared.
Wesley
-
Thanks Wesley for all the details.
Here are my v 2.0 secondary Tesla coils side by side with the first set I tested.
The new ones are wound on 39" inches long 4" i.d. pvc sewage pipe.
1400 turns of 22 AWG
Wesley, I have a question regarding the primary coil. Could I use 3/8 flexible copper pipe instead of Litz wire?... which is best?... does copper mass matter?
Kind regards
Luc
Sweet luc. Are they 3D printed ends inside pvc formers?
-
Answer to r2fpl:
if you look at picture from above
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image// (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174139/image//)
you see that at max resonance you have significant power increase but at 210khz and 228kHz you have quite wide range of frequencies at 75%
of its maximum resonat power and that energy is ready to be used by drifting Tesla structure.
You are not interested with big power for your experiment.
But if you use single frequency generator than you limited to just 218.6 kHz at 100% of power
Your Tx and Rx must not be drifting more than few hundred Hz.
So spark gap is not efficient but is convenient way to go.
Viziv Tower operates at 20kHz/18kHz so if you say that: most of Tesla coils are resonating at 800kHz it is only your own opinion shared.
Wesley
When the spark gap works, it acts like a frequency spectrum noise. Do you think that this noise turns into a pure sine wave and it's all in resonance? If this were the case, the antenna adding the frequency range would suffice. That would be great but too optimistic.
The antenna distance depends on the frequency, so to increase the range you need to use the lowest frequencies. Therefore, Viziv Tower will eventually have to operate on Hz or kHz when there will be more transmitting antennas.
-
- Will your power transmission work without the top load capacitors in place?
It would have to be tested to confirm but I guess the results would be like removing C in an LC tank circuit. Would it still work without C?
- If the top terminal is one plate of a capacitor, where or what is the second plate?
That's an interesting question!...to which brings another question. Must a capacitor have 2 physical plates to qualify or even function as capacitance?
- How do capacitors work?
I'm no expert but I think it's an electrostatic charge that clings to the surface of a dielectric material.
btw, for the record, I am not an EE (and I don't believe I've ever claimed to be).
Thanks for your honesty. I must of assumed you were an EE because of your knowledge and certainty on the subject you've displayed over the years.
Kind regards
Luc
-
Are they 3D printed ends inside pvc formers?
No, I cut those by hand from 1/2" PVC board from Home Depot.
Cheers
Luc
-
3.3kHz sound about like the frequency of my meter. Listen to the (below) video again which I purposely brought the camera mic close to the meter and you can clearly hear it. You can download this free audio spectrum analyzer http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html (http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html) to find the peak frequency.
https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM (https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM)
Today the original grounding rod I measured with the impedance meter is 340 Ohms and the second one is 640 Ohms
Regards
Luc
Hi Luc,
Thanks for the link on the audio spectrum analyzer and for the ground impedance measurements.
So much change in the sandy soil conductivity one would not know without instruments or without appropiate measurements and it surely changes with frequency too.
Gyula
-
#69:
instead 2 plates also equivalent : 2 coils
-
subiect:SLOW WAVE
reason:- slow wave can explain why Tariel Kapanadze coil is so small
-make Tesla coil smaller even though the frequency for given 1/4 y is very low
source:
http://www.padrak.com/vesperman/A_Technical_Analysis_of_Tesla%27s_Extra_Coil_6.24.14.pdf (http://www.padrak.com/vesperman/A_Technical_Analysis_of_Tesla%27s_Extra_Coil_6.24.14.pdf)
factors making Tesla coil electrically small yet still performing:
-slow wave
-CW and CCW winding
- resonant cavities/ half rings ( this part is controversial to some of you even if it was explained by Dr Corum)
stored:
here and in https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539447/#msg539447 (https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539447/#msg539447)
Wesley
-
It would have to be tested to confirm but I guess the results would be like removing C in an LC tank circuit. Would it still work without C?
That's an interesting question!...to which brings another question. Must a capacitor have 2 physical plates to qualify or even function as capacitance?
I'm no expert but I think it's an electrostatic charge that clings to the surface of a dielectric material.
Thanks for your honesty. I must of assumed you were an EE because of your knowledge and certainty on the subject you've displayed over the years.
Kind regards
Luc
I doubt the TC would work that well without the top-load capacitor. The question was intended to foster contemplation on the matter. What about a single stand-alone TC? Certainly the top-load "capacitor" does not comprise both plates of a capacitor? Then what could be the other plate?
Of course a capacitor must have two "plates", otherwise it is not a capacitor. Once again, what might constitute the second plate when it comes to a TC?
The dielectric. Hmm, what exactly is that? Does a capacitor need one to have capacitance?
Suppose the top-load of a TC is only one half of the capacitor? Suppose in the scenario in which you have two TC's situated and connected as you do, might each top-load plate constitute one plate of a common capacitor, and the ether (air) between them the dielectric? Might such a case represent a conventional closed circuit?
-
#74 : a capacitor is also called in german Kondensator
" Capacitor" translated
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formel-sammlung.de%2Fformel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.formel-sammlung.de%2Fformel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html)
Original in german: Kondensator
https://www.formel-sammlung.de/formel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html (https://www.formel-sammlung.de/formel-Kondensatoren-3-30-182.html)
a capacitor/Kondensator does not be based by min. 2 " plates" but by min. 2 electrodes and a dielectric space.
the " plates" as surface can exist as foils or coils.
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=WO&NR=2009154492A3&KC=A3&FT=D# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=WO&NR=2009154492A3&KC=A3&FT=D#)
turned coils + insulation as capacitor/Kondensator
representing an alternative to these band foils capacitor/Kondensator here
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040226&CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1# (https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20040226&CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1#)
Function : Blindleistung/ reactive power to Wirkleistung/ active power by Ampere-turns modulation ( ~ RPM)
magnetic field ( streng) x magnetic flux
x 1/2 positive half period + 1/2 negative half period excitation by frequency
frequency barrier : resistance,permissivity,Currie-temperature
capacitor/Kondensator physically : electro-static magnet ; potential energy to kinetic energy ( push or pull)
Kondensat ~ Lev Landaus cosmic Aether to Einstein-Bose Kondensat ,"Fluidum"
https://books.google.pt/books?id=VGd4DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=einstein-bose+kondensat+aether&source=bl&ots=alcw4Vs_45&sig=ACfU3U1jMWFZcAqdVz4cXv9s0GZ_hRYmmw&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj77q7oy_zkAhUN4BoKHbbRCh4Q6AEwC3oECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=einstein-bose%20kondensat%20aether&f=false
-
Looped system: https://youtu.be/NogGKkxB1NE
-
Looped system: https://youtu.be/NogGKkxB1NE (https://youtu.be/NogGKkxB1NE)
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539474/#msg539474
Wesley
-
I doubt the TC would work that well without the top-load capacitor.
I don't know for sure but it looks like this guy did about 50 feet (15 meters) transmission through one wire without the top-load capacitor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)
Regards
Luc
-
I don't know for sure but it looks like this guy did about 50 feet (15 meters) transmission through one wire without the top-load capacitor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtG5nU34WQ0)
Regards
Luc
A capacitor is not needed, but a light bulb that has to be matched with impedance is important.
You have two bulbs and each has 75W but they are different in performance. One will glow and the other will not.
Another variant: 230V 75W light bulb switched on and 12V 6W will not work.
-
longitudinal wave and effect Kapanadze. Black is output.
this is animation. If not run please use other browser or save to desktop.
-
Hi guys,
Here is a single wire transmission preliminary test (not yet ideal) of my new v2.0 Tesla Coil
Link to video demo: https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU (https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU)
Regards
Luc
-
Hi guys,
Here is a single wire transmission preliminary test (not yet ideal) of my new v2.0 Tesla Coil
Link to video demo: https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU (https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU)
Regards
Luc
:o as always. awesome work. Glad you used the 18W lamp :) Did you try TKs circuit on these also? Interested know the difference with your pulsed DC. All the best with the tuning. Adjustable TL height?
-
Good People Have you seen my movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMK0B9ljNrc
www.TamasEduard.com (http://www.TamasEduard.com)
Good job Luc 8)
-
Did you try TKs circuit on these also? Interested know the difference with your pulsed DC. All the best with the tuning. Adjustable TL height?
Yes Jimboot, I tried TK's circuit but the pulsed dc circuit is the most efficient because I can fine tune perimeters (frequency & pulse width) to the point where the mosfet stays cool, At 1 Amp it's barely warm but interestingly enough, the heavy wire primary gets warmer then the mosfet.
I haven't yet rigged up the top-capacitance to raise or lower. That will get done next week.
Cheers
Luc
-
Dear Luc ...Can you try to feed Tx Tesla Coil with spark gap?
Spark gap as heaving wide spectrum of frequencies can be regulated in its frequency response by changing both
the spark gap distance between electrodes and Voltage by using Variak( autotransformer)
1.
One of examples of low audiable frequencies resonance transmitters here:
The English engineer William Duddell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Duddell) discovered how to make a resonant circuit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonant_circuit) using a carbon arc lamp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_arc_lamp).
Duddell's "musical arc" operated at audio frequencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_frequencies), and Duddell himself concluded that it was impossible to make
the arc oscillate at radio frequencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies)
so with spark gap it is quite easy to go from center having maximum of amplitude at 15kHz to 500kHz.
2.
example of Tx using Tesla Coil at:
-range at center of e.g ~250kHz
-lower edge ~20kHz
-upper edge of ~500kHz
using spark gap connected to primary will have its maximum at 100% of amplitude at 250kHz
and its 75% of amplitude at its low ~170 kHz and respectively ~320kHz
3.
-if spark gap distance between electrodes is small the voltage feeding spark gap can be small.
-if significant break between pulses is required than the oldest method was rotary mechanical wheel with 4 to 8 contacts rotating between two
electrodes of spark gap. or in modern concept it was thiristor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyristor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyristor)
4.
look at the picture below and curve of Poulsen's arc only.
Don't pay attention to any other curve on the picture.
Valdemar Poulsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdemar_Poulsen) succeeded in raising the efficiency and frequency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency) to the desired level.
Poulsen's arc could generate frequencies of up to 200 kilohertz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz) and was patented in 1903.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_converter)
So why do we need it:
-Tariel Kapanadze, SR 193, Akula, Ruslan.. in their first concept devices used spark gap.
-Surface wave in the wire coated with dielectric e.g coaxial cable (Goubau line) differs from interface e.g aluminum foil and air
not to much.
So once is tried with one wire energy transmission from point A to point B it can be applied also to interface based devices.
We need to understand, that science tends to give different names to the same phenomena where physical processes are alike
based on slight differences specific to each one of them .
-e.g Goubau line uses wire coated with dielectric and that should be named the interface, but it is not.
-two dielectrics differing with their dielectric properties such as Teflon and Polyamide makes interface
- conductive medium such as aluminum foil and air creates interfaced as well
- lossy conductive medium a such as earth and air creates interface too
and so on...
The benefit: if frequency drift from main e.g 250kHz there is always adjacent frequency next to it having enough of amplitude to take over and carry on generation at not less than 75% of max amplitude
so this was the first "automatic" frequency adjustment system in year 1900
Wesley
-
What about a single stand-alone TC? Certainly the top-load "capacitor" does not comprise both plates of a capacitor? Then what could be the other plate?
Your questions are based on your mindset that capacitance needs two physical plates to qualify as a capacitor. It does not. However, if you want to use capacitance in modern day electronic circuits, then yes, you need two plates.
In the case of a TC there's a electrostatic field that builds up between the secondary coil surface and the top capacitance surface. They mutually interact without physical termination (plates).
Of course a capacitor must have two "plates", otherwise it is not a capacitor.
Fact is, capacitance does not need two plates to exist or even discharge. There is no plate in the ionosphere and charges interact (lightning) all the time.
A balloon has no plates and can be charged or discharged. So I consider it a capacitor.
Plates can be used as an electrical conduit if one wishes to terminate a charge (capacitance) at a specific location and I guess that's when you consider it a capacitor.
Once again, what might constitute the second plate when it comes to a TC?
I can guess you want me to say that each Tesla coil top capacitance makes a two plate capacitor but that's your belief not mine.
The dielectric. Hmm, what exactly is that? Does a capacitor need one to have capacitance?
No, a dielectric is not a must since air capacitors exist but their capacitance possess the smallest values. The more air space between plates the smaller the capacitance value. So 95% of the capacitors used in electronics have a dielectric material of some kind.
Suppose the top-load of a TC is only one half of the capacitor? Suppose in the scenario in which you have two TC's situated and connected as you do, might each top-load plate constitute one plate of a common capacitor, and the ether (air) between them the dielectric? Might such a case represent a conventional closed circuit?
I suppose if one had the TC lined up and in close proximity one may conclude it could be a conventional closed loop circuit but the more I pursue it and further push the possibilities like in my latest video demo the less it's supporting your theory.
Here is the latest video if you missed it: https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU (https://youtu.be/AdiOlxIo5ZU)
Regards
Luc
-
Your questions are based on your mindset that capacitance needs two physical plates to qualify as a capacitor. It does not. However, if you want to use capacitance in modern day electronic circuits, then yes, you need two plates.
In the case of a TC there's a electrostatic field that builds up between the secondary coil surface and the top capacitance surface. They mutually interact without physical termination (plates).
Fact is, capacitance does not need two plates to exist or even discharge. There is no plate in the ionosphere and charges interact (lightning) all the time.
A balloon has no plates and can be charged or discharged. So I consider it a capacitor.
Plates can be used as an electrical conduit if one wishes to terminate a capacitance at a specific location and I guess that's when you consider it a capacitor.
I can guess you want me to say that each Tesla coil top capacitance makes a two plate capacitor but that's your belief not mine.
No, a dielectric is not a must since air capacitors exist but their capacitance possess the smallest values. The more air space between plates the smaller the capacitance value.
So 95% of the capacitors used in electronics have a dielectric material of some kind.
I suppose if one had the TC lined up and in close proximity one may conclude it could be a conventional closed loop
circuit but the more I pursue it and further push the possibilities like in my latest video demo the less it's supporting your theory.
Well I have problem with your answer:
Everything in nature needs a balance.
Top Capacitor has difference of potential between Earth and itself
Top Capacitor has difference of potential between any structure that is less positively charged .
Top Capacitor is just one plate that is charged against something that it could be refereed to.
The ionosphere is verified in its potential against the opposite of its sign in charge and that is Earth.
There is no such thing like one single charge in space with no "opposites"
Charge is an "elevation." in general means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_charge)
In atomic structure the electrons heaving higher charge are more far from nuclei.
And these electrons occupies higher orbit in the electron cloud.
changing the charge to higher makes them to leave the atom and that is the basic of electric current flow.
If something is elevated in anything, solids liquids, altitude it is always measured against something.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/find-the-magnitude-and-sign-of-the-point-charge-at-the-origin.225276/
(https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/find-the-magnitude-and-sign-of-the-point-charge-at-the-origin.225276/)
The earth can be considered as a single-conductor capacitor. It can also be considered in combination with a charged layer
of the atmosphere, the ionosphere, as a spherical capacitor with two plates, the surface of the earth being the negative plate.
The ionosphere is at a level of about 70km, and the potential difference between earth and ionosphere is about 350000V.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-earths-capacitance.655604/
Wesley
-
#85
[ 0078] [ 0079]
http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=U1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=8234842&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.2&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en
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I have problem with your answer
Maybe because my answers are only addressing a specific conversation between poynt99 and myself and are not to be taken as a general view.
I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I just don't understand how it fits with our conversation, so please allow me to be specific.
What ponynt99 has been saying (which you did not specifically address) is how the transfer of power is taken place between Tesla Coils.
poynt99 is convinced the transfer of power is taking place between the single wire and TC top capacitance linking together (2 plate capacitor) through the ground to complete the current return path.
I conclude the power is being all transmitted through the single wire between each TC.
The TC top capacitance are single plate capacitor and not linked in any way.
Which way do you agree it works?... if you don't agree with either then please explain in a simple and specific way as I did.
Kind regards
Luc
-
in regards to
#1capacitance does not need two plates to exist or even discharge.
#2 A balloon has no plates and can be charged or discharged. So I consider it a capacitor.
Short answer:
add#1 two plates are required
add#2 balloon is just one of plates( point of charge)
Long Answer: capacitance is the property of capacitor and it doesn't exist without capacitor.
-coil has capacitance as reactive component of impedance and that is perfectly normal to say that coil is the "coil-capacitor"
-piece of wire on the table connected to nothing has capacitance as reactive component of its own impedance
and that is perfectly normal to say that coil is the "coil-capacitor" and Yes it can resonate.
All depends from value of its reactive capacitive component : capacitive reactance at given frequency.
By that the vertical dipole antenna in your car can receive FM radio stations if it is in resonance,that means the two of dipole antenna reactive components
the
-inductive reactance
and
-CAPACITIVE REACTANCE
CANCELS ITSELF AS THEY ARE EQUAL IN MAGNITUDE-but opposite one to another
the only what is left at that point is resistive component that exists all the time despite the fact of us dealing with DC or AC.
So again :
Such a condition is called resonance.start to watch from here https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=142
Resonance can exist in both the parallel resonance circuit and series resonance circuit, even if we deal with wire on the table not connected to anything.
and it experiences both the parallel and series resonance however never at the same time and at the same frequency.
It can have also series/parallel combination of resonance but that is extreme case so forget it.
Example:
It resonates if its length is equal to conditions causing resonance (e.g 1/4y)
Coil has increased capacitive component, due to wind to wind space or diameter of wire/foil used.
Typical foil capacitor is two or more coils and its capacitive component for AC is significantly higher than its inductive component.
If you were to connect each of the singular coils of that foil capacitor into separate circuit you will get 1:1 transformer with no core and separated by insulating wax paper
( electrolytic capacitors are excluded from that explanation)
So the bottom line is that if you charge one side of capacitor this charge will always have vector of force at given direction.
balloon will always have charge that is refereed to earth or to any closer body of lesser or opposite sign.
==============================================================================
poynt99 is convinced the transfer of power is taking place between the single wire and TC top capacitance which are linking together to complete the current return path (2 plate capacitor)
Closed circuit is only required when you deal with DC or AC but not when you deal with EM wave.
In regular transmitter : You may transmit energy into an antenna and than to Far Field when you first resonate than radiate and never reverse.
In regular transmitter ( not Tesla Coil with TC in our case ):
after you radiated energy, you can switch OFF the transmitter and EM wave will travel forever till totally dissipates due to losses
However it is different story with :
1. Zenneck Wave or surface wave in the interface.and it acts as said right below
2. In case of EM wave in Goubau line or in interface
when you transmit you have surface wave in the interface or Goubau dielectric coated wire
When you stop to transmit you have nothing there.
=============================================================================
I conclude the power is being all transmitted through the single wire between each TC
.
That is correct.
=============================================================================
The TC top capacitance are single plate capacitor and not linked in any way.
The top capacitor is ( one of plates of capacitor)the part of electrical circuit of the single structure of that particular Tesla coil acting as transmitter.
The rules of closed circuit applies only to that Tx
However since Tx Rx structure as one is reactive in its nature the impedance match between Tx and Rx is required
When you change anything in Rx that makes impedance match non existing than you are causing the Tx to suffer.
That moment has nothing to do with closed path of closed circuit.
when there is no impedance match you have bad SWR or VSWR to be exact. The reflected EM wave from detuned Rx is bouncing back to the Tx
and it may cause its damage or its generator damage.
Impedance match at Rx site is achieved by all components of Rx including the load
That is one of major problems of Viziv trying to commercially use surface wave known as Zenneck wave in the interface air/earth (also known as lossy dielectric and dielectric interface)
Wesley
-
The top capacitor is the part of electrical circuit of the single structure of that particular Tesla coil acting as transmitter.
The rules of closed circuit applies only to that Tx
However since Tx Rx structure as one is reactive in its nature the impedance match between Tx and Rx is required
When you change anything in Rx that makes impedance match non existing that you are causing the Tx to suffer.
That moment has nothing to do with closed path of closed circuit.
when there is no impedance match you have bad SWR or VSWR to be exact. The reflected EM wave from detuned Rx is bouncing back to the Tx
and it may cause its damage or its generator damage.
Just to be clear, in my tests, the Tesla Coils wireless power transmission possibility or properties is not used (bypassed) by the single wire connected to the bottom secondary wire of each coil.
I believe the distance between Tx and Rx could be miles apart and still transfer the same power if theoretically I had an ideally shielded wire. I wish I had 1000 feet of this wire to test its capabilities.
Regards
Luc
-
Not I must disagree.
first don't confuse single wire transmission with single wire and earth return.( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line) )
At the end of the 19th century, Nikola Tesla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla) demonstrated that by using an
electrical network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_network) tuned to resonance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resonance) it was possible to transmit electric power using only a
single conductor, with no need for a return wire. This was spoken of as the "transmission of electrical energy
through one wire without return".
single wire with earth return is closed circuit No EM.
We are not interested with that.
Single wire Goubau is that what we are talking ABOUT .
Please read whole article from Wikipedia (link above)
Wesley
-
I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I just don't understand how it fits with our conversation, so please allow me to be specific.
I agree with Wesley also, and Wesley brought up the inferences I was hoping you would make.
poynt99 is convinced the transfer of power is taking place between the single wire and TC top capacitance linking together (2 plate capacitor) through the ground to complete the current return path.
Not actually. What I proposed is that the circuit is formed by the connecting wire, and the air capacitor, which itself is formed between the two top-load plates and the air. Ground is not necessarily in play here. I was hoping I wouldn't need to make an electrical equivalent drawing, but here it is.
The TC top capacitance are single plate capacitor and not linked in any way.
What leads you to the conclusion that they are not linked?
-
The system shown on the picture above will work as single wire with return but this is not what we are interested with
However this particular concept needs to have impedance match as well.
It is similar to regular Tx with coaxial cable as transmission line. Usually 75 or 50 Ohm.
or
to one of few concepts of single wire with earth return
and it is also reactive system even if I said in post above that :
single wire with earth return is closed circuit No EM.
It can but it doesn't have to be reactive.
that depends from : How the system is made.
The answer is in details.
1. single wire with return =( is also the same as) single wire with earth return
2. single wire with earth return as closed circuit no EM
There two are two different systems:
the #1 is usually reactive system =( is also the same as) Tx with coax cable and load matching impedance of transmission line of that Tx
the #2 is typical electric circuit and requires to be electrically closed circuit
==================================================================================
In reactive systems there are 3 major components to be matched :
1.Traditional system with traditional Tx
a. impedance of Tx e.g 50 Ohm must be matched by
b. transmission line e.g coax cable 50 Ohm and than
c. impedance of the load e.g antenna or lightbulb or resistor must be 50 Ohm to match impedance of transmission line ( the coax)
2. Tesla coil with Goubau line ( the dielectric coated wire)
a. impedance of Tx e.g 50 Ohm or whatever is the impedance must be matched by
b. transmission line e.g Goubau line e.g 50 Ohm or whatever is the impedance and than
c. impedance of the load e.g Rx-Tesla Coil with load e.g 50 Ohm or whatever is the impedance must match that of transmission line
Again please understand that this (or any impedance) has not much to do with resistance of the wire used as Goubau line.
And Resistance is only one of 3 elements of impedance.
Impedance is also measured in Ohms
Wesley
-
the some of examples of impedance matching related to post above:
1. https://www.hobbyradio.se/en/eh/ehbenchtest_en.html (https://www.hobbyradio.se/en/eh/ehbenchtest_en.html) ( not so much important)
2.traditional impedance matching with three components :
- Tx ( RF amplifier)
- Transmission line
- antenna ( or resistive load/ dummy load)
Wesley
-
Not actually. What I proposed is that the circuit is formed by the connecting wire, and the air capacitor, which itself is formed between the two top-load plates and the air. Ground is not necessarily in play here.
Actually, exactly as I wrote and you originally proposed. You're just changing your mind from what you originally wrote and dropping the ground path idea.
Here's what you originally wrote.
circuit is completed via the path from the top capacitance of the TC's to earth ground.
A Faraday shield around the RX coil won't shield the effect because essentially the earth is being used as the return conductor.
The shield may even improve the effect as it could increase the conductivity from the RX top capacitor to earth ground.
Sounds to me like you were saying earth ground was the return conductor?
So what about the Faraday cage now that you changed your mind about the ground being used as the return conductor. Would your new theory of air capacitive coupling still work through a Faraday cage?
What leads you to the conclusion that they are not linked?
The fact that an air capacitor looses most of it's capacitance value with increased distance between plates. Just a change of plate distance from 1/32nd of an inch to 1/2 an inch is a huge drop in capacitance, let alone a distance of 50 feet!
I was hoping I wouldn't need to make an electrical equivalent drawing, but here it is.
Thanks for the drawing. I took the liberty to make correction to truly reflect the reality of my device under test so everyone understands what you are now proposing.
I must admit I'm having as much difficulty accepting your newer 50 feet air capacitor distance between TC top cap plates proposal then your previous TC top cap down through earth ground return path.
At least you're out of the ground now and closer to what the Physicist has been entertaining.
BTW, if you or anyone else can think of a test I can do to prove or disprove a 50 feet distance between plates air capacitor is capable of completing a current path (15 watts transfer) between Tx and Rx I'm all ears and ready to learn something I think is not possible.
Kind regards
Luc
-
That's how energy is transferred through one wire.
-
I made it even easier
Wesley
-
the same but using foil instead of wire
And now we dealing with one of forms of interface
made from;
- foil ( copper or aluminum) the conductive medium and
- air the dielectric medium
in picture where it says connecting wire there is no connecting wire and instead there is foil
black arrows are indicating that you can tune the device by lifting up and down TC ( Top Capacitor)
Wesley
-
The same but using earth the lossy conductive medium instead of foil
in picture where it says connecting wire there is no connecting wire and instead there is earth
black arrows are indicating that you can tune the device by lifting up and down TC ( Top Capacitor)
Wesley
-
The same but using earth the lossy conductive medium instead of foil
in picture where it says connecting wire there is no connecting wire and instead there is earth
Wesley
Yes, I did that test with 10ft deep x 3/4 inch pure copper grounding rods and only 15 feet apart and got zero watt transfer.
I'm quite sure that's when poynt99 changed his mind about the ground being a conductive medium for the TC top caps.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe ground can be used as a conductor but in some parts of the world where the ground is mostly sand, the cost to create a low impedance ground could be very costly, maybe $5k or more.
Regards
Luc
-
I explained quite detailed conditions for impedance match.
apart from that you need:
- vertical polarization
- your wave must be in TM mode
- right Brewster angle( wave tilt)
- and possibly phase match ( may not be critical)
Your videos shows small fixed Top Capacitors with no ability to move up/down
Your distance was 15ft try 60ft and your TEM changed to TM mode might be already in the interface
This is the right size of Top capacitor and distance from the earth or foil:
D= or > 4d
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=950)
But that does'n yet give you the right height.
Moving TC up down makes the tuning .
===============================================================
Everything is in my posts from above and in my video.
I suggest to try now foil instead of wire next you can try air earth interface
keep the distance at 60ft if possible if not than 25 ft is OK too.
The frequency used at test below was 27MHz
But you can use any frequency of your choice below 54MHz
Wesley
-
isn't foil just a conductor?
could you put the foil through a water bath? :)
I mean to look-up - are tesla capacitors actually an inner post and outer plate? or are they just two sets of bottles with a single conductor in each? With no current exchange between the bottles?
(I wish there was a fixed point font - code or pre)
<pre>
+---- + - -----+
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
\___/ \___/
</pre>
---
I made this: https://gitter.im/FreedomCollective/PureEnergy I'm @d3x0r there too It's more like slack/;discord, but less noisy because it's for sharing project information.
-
Maybe a bit too early but this will explain a lot in next steps :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg
-
Maybe a bit too early but this will explain a lot in next steps :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDxSM91Jcg)
Yes this video is amazing thank you for that.
This is a lot to talk about it but I'm on something now
I'll be back...soon
Wesley
-
Just as in video posted earlier.
Transmission line is my tesla coil ( top load and secondary coil ) at 1/4 wavelenght of 480 feet and resonance frequency of 512 kHz.
Apparently my cheap scope can picture this idea only when feed with square wave and i lack skill to observe sine wave this way.
thank you
-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKE (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359)
wiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359)
Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=imgres&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiRlfex3uTjAhVnuVkKHZm9Dm8Qjhx6BAgBEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.biodyncorp.com%2Ftools%2F450%2Fimpedance.html&psig=AOvVaw2GAepZpPzpzVpqdNpDhmvh&ust=1564854222455359) i
t will redirect you to
https://www.biodyncorp.com/tools/450/impedance.html (https://www.biodyncorp.com/tools/450/impedance.htmlMechanism) - this link alone may not work try upper one.
Important for:
- Luc
-any other builder of the Tesla coil and for Tesla coil Tx Rx energy transmission system form point A to B
- Tesla coil extracting energy from Schumann waveguide builder
Mechanism explained in this link shows interaction of my body with Lightbulb I was holding in my hand .
I was not touching metal contact of the lightbulb.
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=416 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=416)
My body reacted as part of electrical circuit and it was( reactively) - capacitively coupled to the lightbulb
And now forget about me and my body
Just take it as solution that can be applied to any resonance circuit so
- the same mechanism can be applied to our Tesla coil.
Our goal is to create TEM in TM mode
and we are using the same elements of impedance:
( capacitive and inductive reactances and resistance )
to provide impedance match between Tx and Rx.
Or to be more accurate what is the relation of the:
- phase angle and resonant circuit reactive components XL and Xc
The two of the components makes X( the reactance)
The X and R( resistance of the conductor) makes Z( the impedance)
That Z can be:
- our body Z
or
- our wire in our coil Z
and/or
- our primary or secondary HV coil
and/or
- our primary or secondary HV coil and Top Capacitor
or
- any of elements of the structure that in summary makes the total impedance of
Tx system or Tx/Rx pair connected by use of interface
Types of interface:
-e.g
Goubau line uses wire coated with dielectric and that should be named the interface, but it is not.
- two dielectrics differing with their dielectric properties such as Teflon and Polyamide makes interface
- conductive medium such as aluminum foil and air creates interfaced as well
- lossy conductive medium a such as earth and air creates interface too
and so on...
more is here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539517/#msg539517 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539517/#msg539517)
We also need to provide condition to our Tx where the
two components of impedance cancel each other and our HV part
of Tesla Coil will be in resonance by that.
So simply by looking at the graph you can see how Phase angle is responsible for other elements of impedance listed here (and/or reverse).
look at the picture below read everything but don't read words "human body"
and that explains what is going on in Tesla coil
I hope that is easy to understand.
So why do we need it?
Answer:
This is mechanism of Tuning of our Tx and Rx
Wesley
Wesley
-
Two coaxial cable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4TVefHjk-U
-
Two coaxial cable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4TVefHjk-U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4TVefHjk-U)
Witajcie.
Nie jestem pewien, jaką część testu uważasz za interesującą?
Nie widzę, która to jest niebieska sonda, a która żółta sonda na oscyloskopie.
Zauważyłem 180 stopniowe przesunięcie fazowe pomiędzy wejściem i wyjściem, kiedy fala sinusoidalna jest powtarzana.
Proszę napisać po polsku, żebym mógł tłumaczyć.
Dziękuję
Hello
I'm not sure what part of your test you find interesting?
I can't see which is the blue probe or yellow probe on the oscilloscope.
I noticed a 180 degrees phase shift between input and output when sine wave is repeated.
Please write in Polish so I can translate.
Thank you
-
A 180 degree shift for the same signal is interesting when TWO wires are connected.
See that the yellow output amplitude is greater than the input. You will only see this when you match the resistor.
I am not saying anything yet.
Yellow - ch1 (left side on video) OUTPUT
Blue - ch2 (right side on video) + SG
PIC: (square, sine)
-
A 180 degree shift for the same signal is interesting when two wires are connected.
See that the yellow output amplitude is greater than the input. You will only see this when you match the resistor.
I am not saying anything yet.
Yellow - ch1 (left side on video) OUTPUT
Blue - ch2 (right side on video) + SG
PIC: (meander, sine)
Dzięki za zdjęcia oscyloskopu.
Teraz jest bardzo jasne, co pokazujesz.
Czy pierwszy oscyloskop obrazuje wejście fali kwadratowej, a drugi oscyloskop obrazuje wejście fali sinusoidalnej?
Czy jest jakaś różnica, czy kabel koncentryczny jest cewką czy nie?
Dziękujemy za udostępnienie
Uwzględnia
Luc
Thanks for the oscilloscope pictures.
Now it is very clear what you are showing.
Is the first oscilloscope pictures a square wave input and the second oscilloscope pictures a sine wave input?
Is there a difference if the coaxial cable is a coil or not?
Thank you for sharing
Regards
Luc
-
1.Is the first oscilloscope pictures a square wave input and the second oscilloscope pictures a sine wave input?
2.Is there a difference if the coaxial cable is a coil or not?
1. YES (square, sine)
2. no coil.
-
Difference measurement with LED
https://youtu.be/PJwnof1eLwU
-
From Wesley: Special Thank you speedy125
PART#1
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
Marconi’s early experiments,
ABSTRACT:
This paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
wireless energy was successfully and safely transmitted and harvested over 2 miles of a hilly area by grounding
and lengthening monopole antenna as a way to reduce
the aperture size of the antenna. Marconi concluded from his first breakthrough experiment that his antenna
radi-ated vertically polarized radio waves that could travel distances much longer than other conventional counter-
parts. Later, he even achieved non-line-of-sight (NLOS) propagation of wireless power across the Atlantic
Trapped surface wave is an evanescent wave propagating by successive internal reflections due to an incident electromagnetic wave
striking at an interface with an angle greater than the critical angle
Trapped surface wave is an evanescent wave propagating by successive internal reflections due to an incident
electromag-netic wave striking at an interface with an angle greater than the critical angle.
So that says that angle can be bigger than instead of statement of Corum Bros that angle of wave tilt in significantly critical
and must be exact. This information sufficiently simplifies our study and experiments
However Dr King stays that:
This lateral wave( another name for Surface Wave although some scholars see the differences between the two)
is a vertically polarized electromagnetic wave on the top surface of the ground as a result of an incident electromagnetic
wave striking the air-ground interface from below at exactly the critical angle
Interface between two different dielectric media, the critical angle is only applicable to the dielectric medium with a higher refractive index.To excite this lateral wave, it is logical to bury the lower end of transmitting and receiving aerials into the dielectric
layer with a higher refractive index in much the same way as grounding a monopole antenna in Tesla’s or Marconi’s work [2], [16]–[18].
In fact, the vertically polarized radio wave as referred by Marconi or ground current referred by Nikola Tesla is most likely equivalent to
the lateral wave referred by King, Tamir and many other researchers in the field of wireless energy harvesting.
suspended layer of dielectric material can be modeled as a 4-layered stratified ground with imperfectly conducting ground.
The stratified ground with imperfectly conducting ground can support propagation of both trapped surface waves and lateral waves
The existence of trapped surface waves is possible if and only if the suspended layer of dielectric material is sufficiently thick,
perhaps, thicker than half of the wavelength.
To rule out the possibility of trapped surface waves being present to a significant extent,
we have chosen to study the suspended dielectric layer with a thickness substantially smaller than half of the wavelength.
Examples of this stratified ground with imperfectly conducting bottom plane
include a table top, an iron-reinforced concrete wall or any suspended dielectric layer coated with an oxide.
Conclusions from part#1
Conclusion#1 from part#1
Ground should be layered that means:
e.g:
-sand
-gravel
-rock
Conclusion#2 from part#1
- that could possibly explain why in Kazakhstan Akula device works and not in Riga Latvia
but
- Ruslan device works in Riga Latvia at another location than Akulas device in Riga Latvia and doesn't work in Hamburg Germany.
Discription of the picture below:
This dielectric configuration is similar to the 4-layered ground that has already been considered in other studies [14], [20],
with an exception that the bottom layer in the present work is a layer of air with an extremely small conductivity.
The red line on the picture shows both :
- the angle of wave tilt
- the surface wave named as : lateral wave in the interface.
Note: lateral wave and surface wave are explained as differing in properties by some scientists however for simplicity, we
omitted such controversies in regards to this type of TEM in TM mode.
Wesley
-
Difference measurement with LED
https://youtu.be/PJwnof1eLwU (https://youtu.be/PJwnof1eLwU)
Zauważyłem, że w tym filmie nie ma przesunięcia fazowego o 180 stopni!
Czy znalazłeś błąd w pierwszym filmie i teraz jest on poprawny (brak przesunięcia fazowego)?
Uwzględnia
Luc
I noticed there is no 180 degrees phase shift in this video!
Did you find an error in first video and now it's correct (no phase shift)?
Regards
Luc
-
IMPORTANT!!
PART#2
of:
speedy125 link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
From part #1 we have learned that earth as multilayered part of interface is suggested.
that is in line with Marconi’s early experiments,
the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
This dielectric configuration is similar to the 4-layered ground that has already been considered in other studies [14], [20],
with an exception that the bottom layer in the present work is a layer of air with an extremely small conductivity.
The relative permittivities of layers 0, 1, 2 and 3 are respectively ε0,ε1,ε2 and ε3, where ε0=ε3=1.
The thicknesses of layer 0 and layer 3 is assumed to be infinity.
The distance between the transmitting antenna and the receiving antenna is denoted by r. Layer 1 and layer 2, respectively,
have a finite thickness l1 and l 2. The length of the vertically mounted[/font]dipole is of approximately 1/4 -wavelength of the chosen operating frequency.
The apparent pathway of a lateral wave is highlighted in red.
As shown in Fig. 1, the deeper the dipole is submerged underneath the top surface of layer 1, the more energy
radiated out from the base of the vertical dipole will be striking the interface between air and layer 1 at critical angle
and the more energy will be converted into a lateral wave
-Transverse magnetic field (of TM) mode in the multi-layered ground can be modeled infrequency domain.
- dielectric layer can be suspended in mid-air
That alone corresponds with my experiment here:
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=409 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=409)
Wesley
-
PART#3
of:
speedy125 link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
From part #1 we have learned that
-earth as multilayered part of interface is suggested.
-that is in line with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at picture representing multilayered interface
- we had the first look at wave behavior while "loading" into interface
From part #2 we have learned:
- the differences between regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested ground as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave in the interface must be in TM mode
==============================================================
To support propagation of trapped surface waves, a dielectric layer should have a thickness at least half wavelength.
This means that there will not be any significant contribution of energy to the receiving end due to a trapped surface wave
if the suspended dielectric layer is too thin.
. If an incoming electromagnetic wave strikes at either interface of an extremely thin dielectric layer at critical angle,
the electromagnetic energy will be forced to propagate along the upper and lower interface in the form of a lateral wave
with an extremely high current density
Since the lateral wave from the interface between layer 3 and layer 2 has to propagate through a much longer and more attenuated pathway before reaching the receiver,
the contribution of the branch cut k3 to the receiving end can be assumed to be negligible although this assumption can be invalid if the suspended dielectric layer is too thin.
Note: for layers look at picture here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174186/image// (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174186/image//)
or at Part#1
Wesley
-
From Wesley: Special Thank you speedy125
PART#4
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
From part #1 we have learned that
-earth as multilayered part of interface is suggested.
-that is in line with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at picture representing multilayered interface
- we had the first look at wave behavior while "loading" into interface
From part #2 we have learned:
- the differences between regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested ground as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave in the interface must be in TM mode
From part #3 we have learned:
- that the thickness of both layers of the interface is expected to be 1/4 of the wavelength Y
============================================================
V. HARVESTING ENERGY FROM LATERAL WAVES BYDIRECT VOLTAGE MULTIPLICATION
In one of Tesla’s lectures [18], Tesla has highlighted the fact that power transmission
by one-wire transmission line is equivalent to wireless power transfer. Although the link between
power transfer by one wire and wireless power transmission has not been well explored in other research literature,
it was found in a recently published work [21] that the energy from a time-varying electromagnetic field can be
captured by a one wire transmission without any antenna.
In this work, wireless energy is harvested from lateral waves on the surface of a suspended dielectric layer
using a little known open-ended voltage multiplier.
Fig. below illustrates the schematic diagram of the open-ended voltage multiplier similar to the one proposed in .
This open-ended voltage multiplier has an input terminated by an open-circuited Goubau line.
Goubau line is one-wire transmission line having characteristic impedance very close to the characteristic
impedance of free space.
If the end of the Goubau is left open-circuited, it becomes a monopole antenna which captures ambient electromagnetic field right
on the top surface of the suspended dielectric layer without any other form of antenna.
The voltage sensed by the Goubau line is rectified into at DC voltage using the well-known Avremenko’s diode configuration formed by diodes
D1 and D2 [22], [23]. Thevoltages across D1 and D2 are very limited because each of the diodes has its own maximum forward voltage.
However, before reaching the output, the voltages across D1 and D2 can undergo voltage multiplication by the differential voltage
multiplier formed by diodes D3,D4,D5 and capacitances C1,]C2,C3 and C4.
The output voltage is the sum of the voltages of all the diodes D1-D6.
The fundamental AC voltage across D1 and D2, 2V D, depends on the time-varying electromagnetic field
captured by the Goubau line, which cannot be changed by changing the circuit topology.
However, the AC voltage across each of all other diodes D3-D6 can be force-increased to a maximum of 2VD by introducing the AC shorts formed
by capacitors C1-C4.
All the diodes used in this circuit are assumed to be the same and all the discrete capacitors used in the circuit are assumed to have a capacitance C.
If the parasitic inductance Lp is sufficiently small, then the output voltage can be derived and approximated using the approach given in Appendix I
n is the intrinsic ideality of the diode.
Is is the reverse saturation current of each of the diodes.
nKT/q is the threshold voltage, which is typical 25 mV at room temperature.
f is the operating frequency.
The formula given in (16) assumes that the load resistance is infinitely large.
The last term of (16) also accounts for the frequency dependent effects due to the capacitances in the layout.
The prototypes for the proposed open-ended voltage multiplier have been fabricated on a Rogers Duroid (TM) substrate 4350B
with thickness=1.52mm.
Fig. 2 shows the details of the proposed open-ended voltage multiplier.
The diodes used for fabricating prototypes in this work were SMS7630-093 from Skyworks.
The schematic diagram, the photo of the fabricated prototype and the simulated electric field distribution
at 1.24 GHz are respectively shown in Figs. 2a, 2b and 2c.
The input impedance of the opened voltage multiplier was approximately 400 ohm according to electromagnetic
simulation.
It should be noted that, for the purpose of verifying the design against the simulation,
the output voltages of the proposed voltage multipliers were first measured as a function of frequency
when the input terminals were fed with a 50 ohm microwave power source (E8267D, Agilent Technologies) at 20 dBm.
The measured results together with the results of layout/schematic co-simulation done using Keysight’s Momentum are shown in Fig. 2d.
Wesley
-
From Wesley: Special Thank you speedy125
PART#5
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
From part #1 we have learned that
-earth as multilayered part of interface is suggested.
-that is in line with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at picture representing multilayered interface
- we had the first look at wave behavior while "loading" into interface
From part #2 we have learned:
- the differences between regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested ground as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave in the interface must be in TM mode
From part #3 we have learned:
- that the thickness of both layers of the interface is expected to be 1/4 of the wavelength Y
From part #4 we have learned:
Basic schematic of Avramenko fork and voltage multiplier that can be used at any frequency
in association with Goubau line or any other type of interface.
===============================================================================
V. SIMULATED AND MEASURED RESULTS OF BASIC WPT (Wireless Power Transmission)CONFIGURATION
The feasibility of wireless power transfer based on the proposed voltage multipliers has been explored using
the experimental configurations as shown in Figs 3a and 3b. Fig 3a
illustrates an experimental configuration where the transmitted energy is expected to be primarily a lateral wave.
Fig 3b shows an experimental configuration focusing on space waves only.
In either configuration, the transmitting[/font]end is mounted with a base-fed monopole antenna formed by
a planar Goubau line, and the receiving end is vertically
mounted with the proposed open-ended voltage multiplier terminated with a 1M load resistor.
The measured results of this work are shown in Fig. 3c.
Wesley
-
From Wesley: Special Thank you speedy125
please start reading from here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593)
PART#6
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
From part #1 we have learned that
-earth as multilayered part of interface is suggested.
-that is in line with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at picture representing multilayered interface
- we had the first look at wave behavior while "loading" into interface
From part #2 we have learned:
- the differences between regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested ground as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave in the interface must be in TM mode
From part #3 we have learned:
- that the thickness of both layers of the interface is expected to be 1/4 of the wavelength Y
From part #4 we have learned:
Basic schematic of Avramenko fork and voltage multiplier that can be used at any frequency
in association with Goubau line or any other type of interface.
From part #5 we have learned:
SIMULATED AND MEASURED RESULTS OF BASIC WPT (Wireless Power Transmission)CONFIGURATION
We can see from Fig.3b Fig.3c impressive performance of TM in the interface.
=======================================================
lateral waves can significantly increase the energy efficiency due to less signal attenuation compared with space waves, therefore,
WPT based on lateral waves can be used for simultaneous charging of the sensor nodes more efficiently
without causing harmful interference to wireless communications.
-this above is another confirmation of expected performance over the regular EM wave
In addition to inherent nature of lateral waves for interference reduction, the delivered power by lateral waves canalso
be conveyed on a lower frequency channel
.
The power can be preferably delivered at a lower frequency,say at any frequency below 500 MHz, where a highly con-centrated lateral wave is easier to form.
-this above is another confirmation of expected performance TM in the interface at low frequencies.
delivered power does not impose any interference to the received signal, the energy to be processed by the receiver
at the receiving end can be pre-filtered with a high pass filter. Fig. 5 illustrates this scenario.
-this above is another confirmation of fact that this wave is not present in Far Field
The exact statement saying it is int the article I just must have time to find it
Wesley
-
Summary from all 6 parts:
I did not yet write it.
Just lack of time
but in overall it kills most if not all of the skepticism
please start reading from here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593)
Wesley
-
Im just looking for some suggestions.
I have in my possession EIN model 500L .
After reading some posts i find recommendations to use EIN 3200L $$$$$ :( .
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg536259/#msg536259
For now ill try to stick to Tesla coil concept and not corums polyphase probe type of structure. ( Unless 500L can be used successfully )
My amp is very low power some 300mW and i wonder if this can be used to switch a transistor 2SC5200 for example.
It should be good for 2-500 mhz but i see a lot of distortion at higher frequency, maybe poor cables.
The goal is to use signal generator ( variable frequency ) to power a solid state tesla coil in simple way. (2-3 Mhz)
kind of like slayer exciter but variable frequency.
Any schematics?
Thank you for all the help.
-
It can only be used as preamp.
You need significant power.
But Ham radio TS-2000 can be used at its low 1.8MHz.The prestige Transceiver .
or any other Transceiver.Some of them can be on Ebay for less than $100 or go to Hamfest
Be careful as you at first need to use it at CW short impulses like from electronic Morse Keyer and let it rest.
You may damage it at no time due to impedance mismatch
SWR meter is needed to most of them.
Note: use of these transceivers requires FCC license.But you have rights to own it . :)
Wesley
-
Im just looking for some suggestions.
I have in my possession EIN model 500L .
After reading some posts i find recommendations to use EIN 3200L $$$$$ :( .
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg536259/#msg536259
For now ill try to stick to Tesla coil concept and not corums polyphase probe type of structure. ( Unless 500L can be used successfully )
My amp is very low power some 300mW and i wonder if this can be used to switch a transistor 2SC5200 for example.
It should be good for 2-500 mhz but i see a lot of distortion at higher frequency, maybe poor cables.
The goal is to use signal generator ( variable frequency ) to power a solid state tesla coil in simple way. (2-3 Mhz)
kind of like slayer exciter but variable frequency.
Any schematics?
Thank you for all the help.
Why do you need a power amplifier? Each tesla coil is your amplifier and transmitter. As a last resort, you can use the music version of the tesla coil!
for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdhTVwSygqo
-
That depends from what is your application.
If you want to send energy from point A to point B at some distance than
due to impedance mismatch it is easy to lose these 300mW
Your signal generator by itself may have that power level of power at its output as well ....so what do you need the 500 series amplifier for?
In any other case your generator can be connected to any external amplifier having much bigger power at desired frequency and is available on Ebay.
Each tesla coil is your amplifier and transmitter.
NO IT IS NOT.
Tesla coil is only changing voltage from low to higher but power level is never amplified.!!
If you deliver 300MmW to Tesla coil primary at 1V where primary is 1 wind and secondary is 1000 winds than you will get at secondary 1000V
but overall power will be 300mW minus the losses. !!!
Using terminology - "Voltage amplification" may be not quite accurate.
You amplifying nothing
You just losing
Basic rule is:
- The power at input is always bigger than power at output!!!
so Tesla Coil as air coupled transformer can be called "LOSER"
as opposite to "gainer"
In regards to Tesla Coil being called Transmitter?
Yes it transmits something.... but that depends from application
No it does not transmit/ doesn't radiate in Far filed ....but that depends from application
Wesley
-
The basis of the principle of signal transmission is to generate an RF signal which is a high frequency electromagnetic wave, so why do you think that the Tesla coil itself is not an amplifier, let alone a transmitter? It amplifies by increasing the amplitude or is that not what the amplifiers are about?
-
what the amplifiers are about?
Amplifier:
electronic device that can increase the power of a signal (a time-varying voltage or current)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier)
Tesla Coil is never amplifying power of signal.
Amplification of power must be seen as done at cost of someone who is giving you needed energy for it.
(and that can be your own pocket when you pay the bill for electricity)
the very concept of free energy is to find this someone who pays for it and than you pay nothing.
e.g wind, solar, thermal, or energy from Schumann waveguide
Wesley
-
This is obvious but I don't think we've understood each other about the word amplifier.
I meant an amplifier in the sense of a power amplifier, e.g. for a music.
-
Wesley
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier
Tesla Coil is never amplifying power of signal.
Amplification of power must be seen as done at cost of someone who is giving you needed energy for it.
(and that can be your own pocket when you pay the bill for electricity)
the very concept of free energy is to find this someone who pays for it and you pay nothing.
e.g wind, solar, thermal, or energy from Schumann waveguide
Condenser: A capacitor (originally known as a condenser) is a passive two-terminal electrical component used to store energy electrostatically in an electric field.
In the past, the Condenser was also know to be an active component condensing or concentrating an electric fluid. In fact one can still use a wire antenna, condenser, inductor and a rectifier to condense electrical atmospheric energy. Some say this is just a receiver for Hertzian waves however it is also known in the art to be able to condense or concentrate electrical energy like an amplifier. However in the case of the condenser we are not amplifying an Electro-Magnetic signal but separating and concentrating electrical charges as energy.
Passive components are well enough however the real action is in active or dynamic components.
-
This is obvious but I don't think we've understood each other about the word amplifier.
I meant an amplifier in the sense of a power amplifier, e.g. for a music.
Wesley's Answer:
It is the same for every amplifier- the same rules apply.
Read Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier)
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539621/#msg539621
Wesley
-
Why do you need a power amplifier? Each tesla coil is your amplifier and transmitter. As a last resort, you can use the music version of the tesla coil!
for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdhTVwSygqo
Witam Kolege
Cytat z Wiki
Most modern audio amplifiers have a flat frequency response as shown above over the whole audio range of frequencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. This range of frequencies, for an audio amplifier is called its Bandwidth, (BW) and is primarily determined by the frequency response of the circuit.
Wlasnie sprawdzilem jak wyglada uzycie Wzmacaniacza audio Blaupunkt PCA2120 2x120W 1x300W.
Podlaczylem generator sygnalow i uzylem wylacznie pozytywnej czesci pulsu sinusoidalnego niebedac pewnym czy
to cos dziala na sygnal przemienny czy tez tylko staly w postaci impulsow ( az tyle to nie wiem a szkoda mi tego wzmacniacza, moze w
nastepnym aucie mi pogra jeszcze :) )
Na wyjsciu oscyloskop pokazywal sygnal sinusoidalny a wiec to by moglo calkiem niezle dzialac przy 13-14volt i jakies 10 amper.
Niestety zgodnie z informacjami o wzmacniaczach audio wraz ze wzrostem czestotliwosci tracisz tzw GAIN. Jego mozliwosci wzmocnienia sygnalu znacznie spadaja powyzej 120khz . A wiec wyciagajac wnioski moge spekulowac ze daloby sie zrobic Tesla coil na podobienstwo Slayer Exciter i kontrolowac czestotliwosc ale tylko na duzym lub bardzo duzym transformatorze ktory ma swoja czestotliwosc rezonansowa
w granicach 100khz i ponizej.
Wlasnie dlatego szukam mozliwosci podlaczenia generatora sygnalow do wzmacniacza ktory bedzie pracowac satysfakcjonujaco w przedziale czestotliwosci radiowych aby transformator Tesli nie byl duzy oraz latwy do zbudowania i szybkiej modyfikacji w razie potrzeby.
Dziekuje za pomysl i pozdrawiam
-
Luc,
Allow me to ask this:
- Will your power transmission work without the top load capacitors in place?
- If the top terminal is one plate of a capacitor, where or what is the second plate?
- How do capacitors work?
Okay poynt99
Both Tesla Coil top load capacitors are removed and circuit still delivers 7 watts through the single wire to Rx 50 feet away and even outside the concrete block building that Tx is located in.
The power transfer efficiency is not as good since I had to use a lower resonance point of 150kHz for stability compared to 230kHz originally demonstrated.
Without the top capacitance the ideal resonating frequency is much higher, difficult to tune and I fried a few mosfet's trying to get it.
So I had to settle with 150kHz. However, it still should be fine to prove the point that the circuit has not been using the top caps to complete the current path.
So how is it completing the current path?
Link to video demo: https://youtu.be/DzmC86vFzBU (https://youtu.be/DzmC86vFzBU)
Regards
Luc
-
Going back to single wire power transmission .
I apologize for messy drawing. Thinking about this experiment https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg537420/#msg537420 i wondered if its equivalent to placing a capacitor at the bottom of tesla coil and
connecting earth end of a coil to one plate of capacitor and single conductor to other, same for Tx and Rx . I did just that with random capacitors and its working like capacitor was
not there, makes no difference. I took no measurements just tried it.
So whats the point:
since this work should lead to power transfer via earth and so called interface - surface wave, i doubt that single wire ( metallic conductor )
will lead YOU anywhere close to your goal. Im not a skeptic and i did read about plans and ideas of using surface wave to send and receive signal between airplanes sensors and main computers on outer shell and wings (mam na mysli aluminiowe poszycie samolotu ale nie wiem jak to nazwac po angielsku) in order to save money on wiring and weight of a plane itself and i totally agree it will work but for engineers with proper know how, understanding and state of the art equipment . So the wave exited by Tx bounces back and fort and gets utilized in Rx some 40 or 70feet apart might be easily mistaken by a surface wave and give you false assumptions. Its just an opinion and i wonder what Wesley can say about my drawing.
Thank You
-
It is absolutely lifting me up that I have so big Polish participation in here.
And it is not because of Marie Skłodowska Curie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie)
My wife is Psychologist she was born in Poland and she got one of the best level of education possible.
There is something unique about these folks.
Something that made them different among many nations around.
Fighting for so many centuries with Russian Aggressor they developed need of being better and better in everything.
Simple and short:
You put them at any place and any country,without knowledge of language, green card, and zero money in the pocket
-dentist can become successful and wealthy construction guy in just 15-20 years from 15 dollars in his pocket when he landed in Kennedy airport.
-surgeon will become successful banker
-and microbiology student can become respected professor in famous American university
Typically it was 6 to 10 years for most of them to buy their first house in USA
Besides of Tadeusz Kosciuszko and Pulawski being heroes of American history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszkohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszkohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_Pulaski)
I could simply say that just because of skills of these folks fighting with Russian aggression
their escape to America - America got its independence under their command .
Today (Wednesday) is my holiday
And today I as an American express to you my Polish friends my respect to everything you value.
Uniqueness of Polish Education System .
In 1950-2010 they had to learn approximately 300% more than average American in areas that have
been not so much included or just only "mentioned" in American school system
So their overall education was very broad and not so much specific .
This was good and bad.
But becomes a precocious (exhibiting unique qualities) to/by any one who had to run for life from Poland from
Russian oppression especially in 20tieth century.
For these who don't know it was Poland who made possible :
-fall of Berlin Wall
-freedom of several countries from Russian/Soviet terror
- fall of Soviet Union starting from 1980 to 1991
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Lech-Walesa (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Lech-Walesa)
So what do we need this information for?
Polish are quiet, peaceful pushers of everything around.
I'm pointing at enormous and very uncommon ability to adapt to any possible conditions of life.
This is their uniqueness
- Great educated nation of quality people.
-Poland as leading economy in EU (GDP ) looks like sweet beautiful clean, modern candy - she shines with her beauty.
-Poland is not chap like some of other Eastern European countries but you'll get what you paying for.
And I happened to be very much oriented in all of the aspects of that part of the world.
I understand all of 27 Slavic languages,
I speak 3 of them fluently
And two of them absolutely perfect... well..only after few days of being there..
Wesley
-
Witam Kolege
Cytat z Wiki
Most modern audio amplifiers have a flat frequency response as shown above over the whole audio range of frequencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. This range of frequencies, for an audio amplifier is called its Bandwidth, (BW) and is primarily determined by the frequency response of the circuit.
Wlasnie sprawdzilem jak wyglada uzycie Wzmacaniacza audio Blaupunkt PCA2120 2x120W 1x300W.
Podlaczylem generator sygnalow i uzylem wylacznie pozytywnej czesci pulsu sinusoidalnego niebedac pewnym czy
to cos dziala na sygnal przemienny czy tez tylko staly w postaci impulsow ( az tyle to nie wiem a szkoda mi tego wzmacniacza, moze w
nastepnym aucie mi pogra jeszcze :) )
Na wyjsciu oscyloskop pokazywal sygnal sinusoidalny a wiec to by moglo calkiem niezle dzialac przy 13-14volt i jakies 10 amper.
Niestety zgodnie z informacjami o wzmacniaczach audio wraz ze wzrostem czestotliwosci tracisz tzw GAIN. Jego mozliwosci wzmocnienia sygnalu znacznie spadaja powyzej 120khz . A wiec wyciagajac wnioski moge spekulowac ze daloby sie zrobic Tesla coil na podobienstwo Slayer Exciter i kontrolowac czestotliwosc ale tylko na duzym lub bardzo duzym transformatorze ktory ma swoja czestotliwosc rezonansowa
w granicach 100khz i ponizej.
Wlasnie dlatego szukam mozliwosci podlaczenia generatora sygnalow do wzmacniacza ktory bedzie pracowac satysfakcjonujaco w przedziale czestotliwosci radiowych aby transformator Tesli nie byl duzy oraz latwy do zbudowania i szybkiej modyfikacji w razie potrzeby.
Dziekuje za pomysl i pozdrawiam
Skoro idzie modulacja na TT muzycznej to jasne jest, że teraz jest to pełny nadajnik. Ostatnio nawet na YT widziałem, że na FM jest normalnie przekaz muzyki co mnie nie dziwi.
Pomyślałem więc jeśli można tak to zrobić to jest to mega tanie rozwiązanie drogich wzmacniaczy na szerokie pasma bo my nie potrzebujemy tak dużych zakresów, a jedynie wąski obszar jak mniemam.
Zresztą to tylko dałem pomysł w oparciu o zdjęcia wzmacniaczy.
:)
-
Recently, I read somewhere that Tesla, in an energy transfer experiment across the globe, used high power transmitter to stimulate the cavity. Carum brothers in an experiment on the river did energy transfer to the other side. Hmmmm it's not clear now what kind of wave they sent. By building the Viziv faith, everyone will agree that there will be great power in it, which suggests that in order to make the transmission that Tesla talked about you need to use the right large solution in relation to the earth!
The construction of miniature tesla coils may simply be impossible for transmission through a cavity of the earth and the resonance itself.
I may be wrong but these are my thoughts.
People from Ukraine made a transmission of energy and received an increase in output using special cone antennas. They have a 6kW device and 100kW for industry. However, I can't sell it because the Kiev authorities blocked it. Is this true I think so.
suggestion: when you have a river and a strong current, what will happen if you throw a stick? This is a possible answer for energy transmission!
Isn't that a beautiful explanation? Thank you.
-
#134
Wesley, is your assumption right. ? Talk and discuss eventually with your wife about facts ,pros and cons. !
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruppe_47 (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruppe_47). 1947- 1967
" free art and artists ,free culture and culture -artists , free life and life culture " "
"Prager Fruehling"-rebellion up to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_77 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_77)
Jugoslawia : Broz Tito ( blockfree : other political leader Nehru/ Indira Ghandi / Nasser ; not Warschauer Pakt / NATO -block member )
"Sozialistische Internationale" : Warschauer Pakt. ? N. A. T. O. -Pakt ? Blockfree Pakt. ?
Hungary : Salami- communism
Sowjet/Soviet union and Berliner Mauer/wall of Berlin/Merlim
A. earthquake in USSR Armenia
B. war in Afghanistan
C.Tchernobyl
And the " face-lost" !
Not to forget an historical profile and his in-/ direct influence by a great world wide community : Carol Wojtyla. !
Poland : "Danziger Werft/Nave/Dock" worker-rebellion " Solidaritaet/Solidarnosz" ( later : -union )
contra political head : Jaruzelski-regime ; rebellion co-leadership with some other has had a female worker,Lech Walesa: "second choice"
"PRESIDENT from Poland, Oslo-Nobel-Yury award ,"Peace" : it does not matter. ! Second choice, eine " blasse" Figur. !
100% male opportunist. !
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnter_Grass). Borned in Danzig,Stockholm-Nobel-Yury-award
-
Dont get me wrong lancalV lets concentrate on history of serbian-american Nikola Tesla work and leave politics to politicians and this complicated history to historians thx
-
YES WE CAN, groot :
http://www.petra-martini.de/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjdzZ0JHlAhVw1-AKHUHOANUQ9QEwAXoECAgQBA (http://www.petra-martini.de/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkjdzZ0JHlAhVw1-AKHUHOANUQ9QEwAXoECAgQBA)
to.
Joseph Henry ? RUHMKORFF ? James Jeans. ?
to
Tesla, Marconi, ( not Enzo !) but Galileo Ferrari +s ,Gianni Dotto, Sebastian Ziani De Ferranti
to
glas-fiber
to 2001 experiment :
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.handelsblatt.com%2Farchiv%2Fpowerline-rwe-startet-internet-ueber-die-steckdose-im-juli%2F2051966.html (https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.handelsblatt.com%2Farchiv%2Fpowerline-rwe-startet-internet-ueber-die-steckdose-im-juli%2F2051966.html)
to
wifi
to today lab R&D and future common communication standart
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612964/what-is-quantum-communications/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicvazkz5HlAhU4A2MBHbayAv8Q9QEwA3oECAkQBg (https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612964/what-is-quantum-communications/?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicvazkz5HlAhU4A2MBHbayAv8Q9QEwA3oECAkQBg)
-
Food For Thought......
http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html (http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html)
This is a quote and you may disregard this article / publication because its perfect example how confused people are about
Tesla's Wireless Power Transmission System.
"Tesla often refers to energy being carried by the currents rather than by Hertian waves. For example, he writes
"From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth."
Straight away we see a problem with this. He is talking about a situation in which the reactive component of the field is to be much larger than the real components, in other words the intended destination is within the near field of the source (within say a half-wavelength to achieve the proportions suggested), or else both source and absorber are contained within a low-loss (high-Q) cavity. He is expecting the earth currents associated with the reactive near field to convey energy to his receivers independently of the EM field."
So the funny part is that he explains the process of a lanching a surface wave but still disregards its existence or possibility of its utilization.
-
Food For Thought......
http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html (http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html)
This is a quote and you may disregard this article / publication because its perfect example how confused people are about
Tesla's Wireless Power Transmission System.
"Tesla often refers to energy being carried by the currents rather than by Hertian waves. For example, he writes
"From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth."
Straight away we see a problem with this. He is talking about a situation in which the reactive component of the field is to be much larger than the real components, in other words the intended destination is within the near field of the source (within say a half-wavelength to achieve the proportions suggested), or else both source and absorber are contained within a low-loss (high-Q) cavity. He is expecting the earth currents associated with the reactive near field to convey energy to his receivers independently of the EM field."
So the funny part is that he explains the process of a lanching a surface wave but still disregards its existence or possibility of its utilization.
The tesla coil can operate in two modes:
- voltage (V)
- current (A)
for V the effect is high HV
and for A high A.
This is not strange, but has anyone done such an experience and knows how to do it? I did such tests and I can say that Kapanadze could use the Tesla coil in mode A.
-
Hello Stivep and other forum members,
I am sorry to have to step in to clear up some misunderstanding. If my memory serves me well, the main authors of this paper have already left to other countries a long time ago. I don't think this work has anything to do with Guangdong[size=78%].[/size]
I don't visit this forum very often but feel free to discuss, ask questions and share your knowledge with others.
Blueplanet
From Wesley: Special Thank you speedy125
please start reading from here:
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539593/#msg539593)
PART#6
IMPORTANT!!
speedy125 send link:
This work was supported in part by the Guangdong Natural Science Funds for Distinguished Young Scholar under GrantTitle:
Title:
Wireless Energy Harvesting by Direct Voltage Multiplication on Lateral Waves From a Suspended Dielectric Layer
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760 (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760)
From part #1 we have learned that
-earth as multilayered part of interface is suggested.
-that is in line with Marconi’s early experiments,
-the paper explores the feasibility of wireless energy harvesting by direct voltage multiplication on lateral waves.
-we could also look at picture representing multilayered interface
- we had the first look at wave behavior while "loading" into interface
From part #2 we have learned:
- the differences between regular EM wave known also as Space wave and Surface wave.
- the 4 layer suggested ground as one of parts of interface Air/Earth
- the wave in the interface must be in TM mode
From part #3 we have learned:
- that the thickness of both layers of the interface is expected to be 1/4 of the wavelength Y
From part #4 we have learned:
Basic schematic of Avramenko fork and voltage multiplier that can be used at any frequency
in association with Goubau line or any other type of interface.
From part #5 we have learned:
SIMULATED AND MEASURED RESULTS OF BASIC WPT (Wireless Power Transmission)CONFIGURATION
We can see from Fig.3b Fig.3c impressive performance of TM in the interface.
=======================================================-this above is another confirmation of expected performance over the regular EM wave
.-this above is another confirmation of expected performance TM in the interface at low frequencies.
-this above is another confirmation of fact that this wave is not present in Far Field
The exact statement saying it is int the article I just must have time to find it
Wesley
-
http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html (http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html)
"Tesla often refers to energy being carried by the currents rather than by Hertian waves. For example, he writes
"From my circuit you can get either electromagnetic waves, 90 percent of electromagnetic waves if you like, and 10 percent in the current energy that passes through the earth. Or, you can reverse the process and get 10 percent of the energy in electromagnetic waves and 90 percent in energy of the current that passes through the earth."
I went into the article.
I search who is Paul Nicholson the guy is mystery to me.
The REAL Science of non-Hertzian waves, by Paul Nicholson no original link to article was found
I happened to read the reprint few years ago but it was not deep study.
End of story is that Article was likely published in 2002. the missing are the drawings he referees too.That is why his article- reprint is somehow unclear.
The guy had no idea about surface wave and interface as it was at that time in its infant stage.
Definitely he was/ is educated guy with nice English skills.
He got few things right and article is worth reading.
Waveguide and lightning is nicely explained, however again his limitation is his approach based on lack of novelty of surface wave science.
So my plan was to contact him or visit him with some suggestions.
Along my search I got few helpful links:
- http://www.tfcbooks.com/mainpage/links2.htm (http://www.tfcbooks.com/mainpage/links2.htm)
- https://www.backyardastronomy.net/natural-radio-receiver/ (https://www.backyardastronomy.net/natural-radio-receiver/)
"This last link says thank you to Paul Nicholson"
who is he? ??? ??
VLF receiver is nothing more than an audio amplifier attached to an antenna.
One of the most popular uses for a VLF receiver is for listening to lightning strikes from around the world,
and the interesting effects that this activity has on our atmosphere.
lightning strike is not a narrow band event as is say a military VLF transmitter like NAA in Cutler Maine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler) at 24KHz.
These types of wide band signals are characteristic of natural EMF activity from Earth
The article includes schematic and waterfall of Rx.
-https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/132576/why-is-lightning-referred-to-as-high-frequency-source
Lightning strike
The negative flash/stroke is found to have 200KA of current with a voltage close to 300KV (cloud to ground).
According to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#General_considerations), average duration of a lightning is 30μs. If we take a gaussian current splash with σ=30μs,
its spectrum will be a gaussian with σk≈33kHz.
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances
Lightning discharges are considered to be the primary natural source of Schumann resonance excitation;
lightning channels behave like huge antennas that radiate electromagnetic energy at frequencies below about 100 kHz.
-https://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html easy way to receive ULF .
Especially interesting is this link:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2005GL023028/full (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2005GL023028/full)
Detection of thirteen resonances of radio waves from particularly intense lightning discharges
So we know from all of links above that lightning is responsible(mainly) for Schumann resonances and
lightning by itself is the source of its own resonances and its harmonics separately.
With that we may ask what happen if EM wave at right tilt angle and polarization hits the earth?
Will it land in the interface?
Can we help EM wave to do what we what it to do by Kapanadze process of activation?
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=993 (https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=993)
Lightning strikes reach the ground on Earth as much as 8 million times per day or 100 times per second,
according to the National Severe Storms Laboratory (https://www.bing.com/search?q=National+Severe+Storms+Laboratory&filters=sid%3a4765c811-1c2f-fd3e-b481-7a4eca5de113&form=ENTLNK).
and we know that we need 50/60Hz per second for our electricity in our outlet.
Random amount of EM waves per second produced by lightning with right properties to land in the interface
can be calculated.
Than this energy can be received stored in capacitor and rectified.
The only why we use AC is that is convenient but DC is used by most if not all of our portable devices also by choice of convinience
Wesley
-
https://www.google.com/search?q=poincare+light&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-m
-
Wireless transfer energy
see points.
http://wi-tap.energy/experiments/
-
Hello
As you noticed im just an amateur and curious person who likes to learn stuff.
Now i turn to you seeking a simple explanation and training.
Do to lack of financial resources i can only afford simple and cheap tools i can find on ebay.
Im using this simple usb oscilloscope Hantek 6022be . It is easy to use and fun to learn and
explore options and possibilities given by such tool.
While playing with frequency counter option i noticed it shows me two different wave forms.
Im trying to determine frequency of my slayer exciter and at very low power ( 3-5volt input) i keep the probe pretty close to a top load.
While i change top loads it adjusts to different resonant frequencies.
So im using this software provided with the device and when i use stop option at longer time frame lets say 50us
it shows this modulated like wave . still i can measure frequency and its the same as i take shorter time frame 10us but wave form
is regular sine wave.
What does it mean and why i see two different wave forms?
Tesla coil is top loaded and grounded and slayer has feedback antenna coil to pickup the signal . When i played with single wire
transmission ( top load - coil - capacitor -- copper wire -- capacitor -coil - top load ) i could see same different wave forms so ground
didn't change anything.
I consider probe leads are cheap, is this the reason and which wave form is true ?
Thank you
-
Good morning Wesley,
I have some concerns in moving forward to the next step of wireless transmission.
Since it involves using earth ground instead of the nice shielded coaxial wire I've been experimenting with.
My concerns are, as soon as I connect the TC secondary bottom wire to earth ground it dissipates the high voltage everywhere in the ground like a massive sponge.
The results are a mostly dampen signal to the TC top capacitance. So how can one expect any wireless transmission?
Also not clear is, the earth grounds quality!... as I have already demonstrated, in my location earth grounds are very bad due to the sand.
How good does the ground need to be?
Apparently Tesla had multiple grounding rods hundreds of feet deep below his Wardenclyff tower plus the location is on a shore to the Atlantic Ocean.
What did the Viziv project use or do for earth ground?
Kind regards
Luc
-
I'm sorry but in the car now
so I answer it short and may be not that precise as you wish.
I suggested you to go step by step.
Don't jump ahead.
It is a learning curve.
From Goubau line the next step is to buy cheap aluminum foil and make experiment .
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/dlattach/attach/174200/image//
https://youtu.be/XOTLfnMOSqQ?t=367
Types of interface:
-e.g
- Goubau line uses wire coated with dielectric and that should be named the interface, but it is not.
- two dielectrics differing with their dielectric properties such as Teflon and Polyamide makes interface
- conductive medium such as aluminum foil and air creates interfaced as well
- lossy conductive medium a such as earth and air creates interface too
and so on...
After you are successful with that it is helpful to
use spark gap instead of Generator and adjust spark electrodes distance .
That gives you comparable results .Because spectrum of spark generator is wide than you don't have to be worry that system is unstable
there is enough of Adjacent frequencies in the spectrum to take over .
Failures:
The failure of your experiments can be caused also by:
1. lack of impedance match.
2. lack of proper polarization AND BREWSTER ANGLE - that is done (at its easiest) by changing elevation of top capacitor . HV Tesla coil must be vertical to the ground
3. lack of resonance in both the Tx and Rx Tesla coils
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539579/#msg539579
Wesley
-
Good morning Wesley,
I have some concerns in moving forward to the next step of wireless transmission.
Since it involves using earth ground instead of the nice shielded coaxial wire I've been experimenting with.
My concerns are, as soon as I connect the TC secondary bottom wire to earth ground it dissipates the high voltage everywhere in the ground like a massive sponge.
The results are a mostly dampen signal to the TC top capacitance. So how can one expect any wireless transmission?
Also not clear is, the earth grounds quality!... as I have already demonstrated, in my location earth grounds are very bad due to the sand.
How good does the ground need to be?
Apparently Tesla had multiple grounding rods hundreds of feet deep below his Wardenclyff tower plus the location is on a shore to the Atlantic Ocean.
What did the Viziv project use or do for earth ground?
Kind regards
Luc
This is a very important question which I asked twice and never got an answer.
Let me help us two a bit and provide a clue:
This lateral wave is a vertically polarized electromagnetic wave on the top surface of the ground as a result of an incident electromagnetic wave striking the air-ground interface from below at exactly the critical angle [16], [17]. For an interface between two different dielectric media, the critical angle is only applicable to the dielectric medium with a higher refractive index.To excite this lateral wave, it is logical to bury the lower end of transmitting and receiving aerials into the dielectric layer with a higher refractive index in much the same way as grounding a monopole antenna in Tesla’s or Marconi’s work .
No simple answers available.
Link: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=8053760
When you read about this experiment https://arxiv.org/pdf/1903.10294.pdf you see a different mechanism ,
mainly "Sinking of Equi-phases"
Whatever you read it points you in a whole new direction . unless its all the same???
-
I wrote earlier that for transmission through the earth cavity, Tesla used high energy to stimulate the resonance cavity. The minimum value given is 75kW. Maybe it's a way of implementation because we don't want to make a wave, just connect to it.
-
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=Hanna+Albert+awad&IN=&CPC=&IC=
Point 6. ...... a motor which is driven......
7. Vehicle driven above ground
The less power need : energy transmission and receiving. : " magnet/capacitor" Earth
Prof. Dr. Ehrenhaft studies
-
I'm still traveling
I will respond to the comments in my free time.
https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539721/#msg539721 (https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg539721/#msg539721)
Wesley
-
Moderators please remove if to OT.
I'm curious about a power supply that I have used on my coils.
On the very long list of things I don't understand. I've been trying different power supplies with my Zenneck coils experiment. I don't understand how this selenium rectifier is delivering results that a power diode does not. [/size]I'm measuring the 16VAC output of the transformer in parallel to the rectifier.The circuit only oscillates when the rectifier is in the circuit.The DC output on a DMM is around 8V or 16VAC on same DMM. It gets better results than by DC power supply at 12VDC . Stronger field more plasma etc.
With the dc supply it takes at least 12v for oscillations 150ma. Continuous oscillation. With half rectified ac nothing on other adapters or the the power supply above. It’s only when the rectifier is part of the circuit. I see 50hz flickering when activated via the rectifier and 100ma current draw.
vid https://youtu.be/_odJBpkGfrw (https://youtu.be/_odJBpkGfrw)
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Hi Jim,
I'm very limited when it comes to electronics,but don't you need 4 diodes to make a bridge rectifier?
artv
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Hi Jim,
I'm very limited when it comes to electronics,but don't you need 4 diodes to make a bridge rectifier?
artv
For a full wave rectifier yes, However the selenium rectifier on the power supply I am testing is only 1/2 rectified and produces better results on my coils for less power than DC, I'm trying to understand why. 1/2 rectified with a power diode does not produce the same results.
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Hello
Experiment Experiment.
Instead of wire connecting two tesla coils -- Distilled Water.
So i cut a 5 feet of plastic pipe in half so it formed a vessel. Filled it with distilled water and using alligator clip connected end of coil and water ;D.
Coils are tuned so when connected with wire you can see lit light bulb on receiving side. Power Level low so no transmission without a connection.
In my opinion this could be interesting if one can make a power transmission. Measured over 20M Ohm of resistance. Is it possible to match impedance or surface wave transmission is the only option??
Thank You
P.S.
So far I did not succeed >:( ;D
-
Groot
In my opinion this could be interesting if one can make a power transmission. Measured over 20M Ohm of resistance. Is it possible to match impedance or surface wave transmission is the only option??
The laws which govern the action are pretty straightforward. If the induced charges/potential repel each other and they do then they must travel on the surface of the conductor and not inside it. Also, Power=(V x I), so the power transmitted relates to the electrical pressure times the number of charges moving due to the applied electrical pressure. Therefore in order to increase the real power across an "insulator" the potential must rise to a level sufficient to conduct.
What many find hard to fathom is that Tesla was generating ten's of millions of volts potential in a very small time frame which made every insulator conduct. So when the experimenter only generates maybe 500kV in the milliamp range in there Tesla coil and little happens they think it cannot work. Think of it like this... consider the minor effects your setup produces then consider what happens in a lightning strike. Imagine what would happen if you could produce an 8 foot lightning bolt in your garage?, lol. Now were into Tesla's realm and not only would it smoke all electronics within hundreds of feet but your vehicle would probably start on fire.
From what I can see the first problem is an electronic driver for your primary which is grossly under powered. As Tesla said the goal is to charge a capacitor to the highest possible voltage and discharge it violently through the primary in the smallest time frame with no alternations or reversal. In effect, your trying to tap the primary with a spoon producing AC oscillations where Tesla smashed it with a 20 kg sledge hammer in a single blow with no oscillations.
It is no easy thing but I can tell you from experience that when you do get it right all hell breaks loose. Quite literally everything becomes a conductor in ways few would expect. Now one could ask, if we could create an environment in which "all energy" was now free to move how many different kinds of energy are present which could move?. I believe Tesla implied he was not generating energy per se but producing a conduit for external energy to flow through.
Here is the procedure, we input X energy to create an energy conduit which allows Y external energy to flow through it. Then we capture X and Y energy recycling X back to the input leaving Y energy for our use. It's like putting up a sail on a boat and capturing the wind energy, we did not create the wind nor the energy from it we just created a mechanism to harness the wind energy already present.
Regards
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The laws which govern the action are pretty straightforward. If the induced charges/potential repel each other and they do then they must travel on the surface of the conductor and not inside it. Also, Power=(V x I), so the power transmitted relates to the electrical pressure times the number of charges moving due to the applied electrical pressure. Therefore in order to increase the real power across an "insulator" the potential must rise to a level sufficient to conduct.
onepower I do realize I know small fraction of what Tesla was doing. High power + high voltage sure can make magic.
Allow me to quote Tesla :
As regards the rise of potential through resonant action, of course, theoretically, it may amount to anything since it depends on self-induction and resistance and since these may have any value. But in practice one is limited in the selection of these values and besides these, there are other limiting causes. One may start with, say, 1,000 volts and raise the E. M. F. to 50 times that value, but one cannot start with 100,000 and raise it to ten times that value because of the losses in the media which are great, especially if the frequency is high. It should be possible to start with, for instance, two volts from a high or low frequency circuit of a dynamo and raise the E. M. F. to many hundred times that value. Thus coils of the proper dimensions might be connected each with only one of its ends to the mains from a machine of low E. M. F., and though the circuit of the machine would not be closed in the ordinary acceptance of the term, yet the machine might be burned out if a proper resonance effect would be obtained.
http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/frankgermano_net/nikolatesla2.htm
What many find hard to fathom is that Tesla was generating ten's of millions of volts potential in a very small time frame which made every insulator conduct. So when the experimenter only generates maybe 500kV in the milliamp range in there Tesla coil and little happens they think it cannot work. Think of it like this... consider the minor effects your setup produces then consider what happens in a lightning strike. Imagine what would happen if you could produce an 8 foot lightning bolt in your garage?, lol. Now were into Tesla's realm and not only would it smoke all electronics within hundreds of feet but your vehicle would probably start on fire.
My problem with use of high power spark gap tesla coil is interference. State I live in prohibits use of such transmitters by law.
It might be very entertaining to recreate "The Philadelphia Project" but I am certain that it would lead me to jail sentence :)
Wireless power transfer concept presented by Wesley has been researched, tested and finally granted patent by US Patent Office.
If for some reason my posts make impression Im trying to build or copy perpetual motion device aka free energy device than Im sorry for confusing the readers. This Is not a free energy device.
Dr Corum in his patent experimentally proved a concept of wireless energy transmission over an interface. You can find him doing this with 15volts peak to peak alternating current. Other calculations provided in the patent are: 100khz, 8meter high terminal, 5kv charge at top load - "The guided field strength curve falls off at between 4000 - 7000 Kilometers"
Most likely its pretty expensive to construct such a device and that's how I came up with my Experiment.
Instead of dealing with Earth as lossy medium that changes its parameters use water. Seneca lake experiment
Than make it even easier and have a raised (suspended) container with water in it. Tesla coils are used only to show lack of conductivity in old fashioned manner. No need to deal with ground plane image theory. I might be mistaken. This is why I posted it. Im looking for suggestions and wonder if there is any interest in surface wave experiments. If none let me know and ill stop littering this forum.
Thx
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groot
Dr Corum in his patent experimentally proved a concept of wireless energy transmission over an interface. You can find him doing this with 15volts peak to peak alternating current. Other calculations provided in the patent are: 100khz, 8meter high terminal, 5kv charge at top load - "The guided field strength curve falls off at between 4000 - 7000 Kilometers"
Fair enough, the patent information is interesting though because as we all know a 100khz, 8m high, 5kv Tesla coil cannot transmit 4000 km. More like 1m distance in good conditions for those of us who have built and tested them in the past. I think it's kind of neat because the patents never tell the full story and we have to connect the dots for ourselves. What I can tell you is I have built many systems similar to yours and not in a million years will it even transmit power across the street. It simply does not have the capacity nor the required qualities to do this.
Therefore... it must be something else, something missing as I explained. People need to get past this notion of EM waves travelling through the atmosphere in order to make any progress in my opinion.
Regards
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https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg2290266/?PHPSESSID=oqakpcqq7lgsb5e0i0huu19c52#msg2290266 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/bullshit-texzon-wireless-power/msg2290266/?PHPSESSID=oqakpcqq7lgsb5e0i0huu19c52#msg2290266)
very much known video blogger forum:
The guy who created that forum is opposing the concept of Viziv and that is OK with me.
however it is interesting comment there (link above)It explains very low lossess due to VLF
EEV is brilliant Engineer, however he better keeps to that what he knows the best.
He "attacked" FE community calling us with names.He also made special video expressing his opinion.
With all due respect he also tends to ban some individuals who have opposite opinion.
The main difference between us is that (I believe that) he needs to make money on any activity he does..
I don't- so his youtube is very professional, but not much beyond that .
Wesley
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some links to remember :
1. http://wikirota.org/en/LGV_Rota_Patents (http://wikirota.org/en/LGV_Rota_Patents) Patent .and question as to he used Zenneck wave
2. https://www.roke.co.uk/ (https://www.roke.co.uk/) roke.co.uk woking on special applications of Zenneck WaveRoke was first mentioned here;
http://technews.tmcnet.com/wearabletechworld/topics/from-the-experts/articles/325596-zenneck-waves-keep-wearable-tech-wireless-communications-close.htm (http://technews.tmcnet.com/wearabletechworld/topics/from-the-experts/articles/325596-zenneck-waves-keep-wearable-tech-wireless-communications-close.htm)
Roke is an electronics engineering company that primarily provides contract research,
product development and manufacturing for a wide range of U.K. and international customers.
Its team currently comprises more than 350 engineers focused on developing advanced sensors,
communications systems and network solutions for a diverse range of applications
2a.Isolation of the Zenneck Surface Wave: Update Janice Turner (nee Hendry) Roke Manor Research Limited, Romsey / University College London
2b. Roke :SURFACE WAVES: WHAT ARE THEY? WHY ARE THEY INTERES[/font]TING? Janice Hendry
https://www.armms.org/media/uploads/1259319847.pdf (https://www.armms.org/media/uploads/1259319847.pdf)
3.http://teslaradio.com/pages/wireless_102.htm (http://teslaradio.com/pages/wireless_102.htm) WIRELESS TRANSMISSION THEORY
4.https://swling.com/blog/2018/10/scientists-studying-wireless-electric-transmission-in-central-texas/ (https://swling.com/blog/2018/10/scientists-studying-wireless-electric-transmission-in-central-texas/) hams interested with Zenneck Wave
5.https://experts.syr.edu/en/publications/surface-plasmonspolaritons-surface-waves-and-zenneck-waves-clarif (https://experts.syr.edu/en/publications/surface-plasmonspolaritons-surface-waves-and-zenneck-waves-clarif)
Syracuse University
A Zenneck wave is produced at the zero of the reflection coefficient of a plane incident TM wave (at the Brewster angle of incidence) on an air-dielectric interface, whereas surface waves are produced when the TM reflection coefficient is infinite. Both the Zenneck wave and the surface wave are TM waves and are nonradiating, as they have, in general, exponentially decaying fields with distance. For the Zenneck wave, the evanescent transverse field components do not change appreciably with frequency (because the phenomenon of Brewster angle is independent of frequency), whereas for a surface wave, with an increase of the frequency the wave is more closely coupled to the surface.
5a.https://surface.syr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1179&context=etd
Syracuse University
(https://experts.syr.edu/en/publications/surface-plasmonspolaritons-surface-waves-and-zenneck-waves-clarif)A STUDY FOR THE PROPAGATION OF ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES OVER IMPERFECT
GROUND PLANES BASED ON WAVES OVER IMPERFECT GROUND PLANES BASED
ON SCHELKUNOFF INTEGRALS SCHELKUNOFF INTEGRALS
6.https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.2212307Observation (https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/1.2212307Observation) of Zenneck-type waves in microwave propagation experiments
7. https://www.safie.hq.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1770582/air-force-signs-mou-to-test-resilience-improving-technology/ (https://www.safie.hq.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1770582/air-force-signs-mou-to-test-resilience-improving-technology/) Air Force,Pentagon, VaZenneck Surface Wave, to carry communications signals or electrical power efficiently over
long distances along the Earth’s surface without the need for wires.
8.https://arxiv.org/pdf/1910.10973.pdf (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1910.10973.pdf)
Compound Guided Waves That Mix Characteristics of Surface-Plasmon-Polariton, Tamm,Dyakonov–Tamm, and Uller–Zenneck Waves
9.https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2mptxb/zenneck-power-llc (https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2mptxb/zenneck-power-llc)
rapport about new company called[/font] Zenneck Power, LLC Overview
10. https://dallasinnovates.com/startup-funding-who-got-the-money-in-2018/ (https://dallasinnovates.com/startup-funding-who-got-the-money-in-2018/) Viziv got $34.1M dollars.
But also Viziv announced that it had raised (https://dallasinnovates.com/follow-the-money-yourcause-exits-in-157m-deal-viziv-technologies-raises-1-37m/) an additional $1.372 million in two funding rounds.
11.https://www.coursehero.com/file/p62v1kl/Zenneck-Surface-Wave-For-a-lossy-medium-%CE%B2-the-TM-reflection-coefficient/ (https://www.coursehero.com/file/p62v1kl/Zenneck-Surface-Wave-For-a-lossy-medium-%CE%B2-the-TM-reflection-coefficient/)Zenneck Surface Wave For a lossy medium β the TM . (https://www.coursehero.com/file/p62v1kl/Zenneck-Surface-Wave-For-a-lossy-medium-%CE%B2-the-TM-reflection-coefficient/)this page check your security to verify that you are not robot.
12.https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/wardenclyffe-lab-1901-1906/connection-to-earth/proposed-methods-for-terrestrial-resonance/ (https://teslaresearch.jimdo.com/wardenclyffe-lab-1901-1906/connection-to-earth/proposed-methods-for-terrestrial-resonance/)
At Wardenclyffe Tesla operated at frequencies from 1,000 Hz to 100 kHz.
He found the frequency range up to 30 – 35 kHz, “to be most economical.”
Based upon an analysis of the Colorado Springs Notes and other sources [including Corum & Corum]
it appears a basic World System oscillator would develop a wave complex with an extremely low frequency (ELF)
in the 6 – 1000 Hz range [obtained with an alternator, NTAC, p. 155] plus a very low frequency (VLF) component around 25 – 35 kHz.
Tesla specified a frequency of 925 Hz for power transmission in the patents “System of Transmission of Electrical Energy (http://www.nuenergy.org/uploads/tesla/US645576.pdf)”
U.S. Patent No. 645,576, dated March 20, 1900 and “Apparatus for Transmission of Electrical Energy (http://www.nuenergy.org/uploads/tesla/US649621.pdf)”
U.S. Patent No. 649,621, dated May 15, 1900.
13.https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09205071.2015.1093964 (https://iom3.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09205071.2015.1093964) just math
14.https://www.e-fermat.org/articles/sarkar-art-2019-vol31-jul-aug-01/ (https://www.e-fermat.org/articles/sarkar-art-2019-vol31-jul-aug-01/)
controversy about sign error the major problem between old school and Corum.
15.http://www.jpier.org/PIERM/pierm13/02.10041409.pdf (http://www.jpier.org/PIERM/pierm13/02.10041409.pdf)
ONERA (The French Aerospace Lab)
In the field of maritime surveillance,Zenneck WAVE
Wesley
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Hello
Experiment Experiment.
Instead of wire connecting two tesla coils -- Distilled Water.
So i cut a 5 feet of plastic pipe in half so it formed a vessel. Filled it with distilled water and using alligator clip connected end of coil and water ;D.
Coils are tuned so when connected with wire you can see lit light bulb on receiving side. Power Level low so no transmission without a connection.
In my opinion this could be interesting if one can make a power transmission. Measured over 20M Ohm of resistance. Is it possible to match impedance or surface wave transmission is the only option??
Thank You
P.S.
So far I did not succeed >:( ;D
yeah why not make a mini tesla coil or use a TV lopt so it creates a plasma spray from loads of sharp spikes and put into a mesh tube to create an ion field anduse magnets to direct theions out to a collector ?
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https://www.tntech.edu/engineering/research/cesr/wireless-power/power-through-earth.php (https://www.tntech.edu/engineering/research/cesr/wireless-power/power-through-earth.phpWesley)
Earth Transmission Wirelessly sending power through the earth is a project funded by the National Science Federation (NSF).
The purpose of this experiment is to send power to sensors in a field an and to determine the characteristics and viability of sending power within the earth.
The principle of earth transmission is similar to the single wire wireless power transfer characteristics of a coil.
The earth completes a path between the top and bottom electrode of the system.
Placing a current through the top electrode of the well will cause a current that will transmit into the earth and propagate across the skin layer of the earth.
This is a very similar phenomenon like seen in a Zenneck wave.
Wesley
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As Tesla said the goal is to charge a capacitor to the highest possible voltage and discharge it violently through the primary in the smallest time frame with no alternations or reversal.
Could you please point me to the reference where Tesla said the was discharging a capacitor through his primary without alternations or reversals?
It is no easy thing but I can tell you from experience that when you do get it right all hell breaks loose. Quite literally everything becomes a conductor in ways few would expect.
You know this from experience? What did you do to "make all hell break loose? What unexpected ways are making everything become a conductor? If you did this once, then why not do it every time? Please tell me the experimental conditions that created this effect.
Respectfully
Orion
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Few links allowing you to understand better:
link#1.
Explanation of Dr Corum from Viziv use of Zenneck wave from the perspective of?Zenneck wave
But prospected by use of much higher electromagnetic waves - light.
it is analyzed in quora
note:
you must click: Continue Reading
How does the Tesla tower of Viziv Technologies work?
https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-Tesla-tower-of-Viziv-Technologies-work (https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-Tesla-tower-of-Viziv-Technologies-work)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wesley
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Few links allowing you to understand better:
link#2
This is some sort of information exposing - what is being false or exaggerated and what is not :
in regards to strange looking Russian structure by some assigned to Tesla coil
https://www.slavorum.org/legendary-tesla-towers-are-operational-in-russia/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFQkb8O0CZM
(https://www.slavorum.org/legendary-tesla-towers-are-operational-in-russia/)Note:
Please go down of the page to :
Chuck Ruff 8 months ago
First, these are nothing to do with anything Tesla did.
The high voltages are developed in a completely different way than from a Tesla Coil.
The imposing looking structures on either end of the field are not the marx generators.
One, the smaller of the two, is the 3 phase, full wave rectifier stack that changes the
power from a distant power plant to DC energy.
It provides very high voltage DC energy to the other similar looking structure, which is nothing
more than a voltage regulator and switching system to fire the generator.
The actual marx generator is the tower between them. It gets the least attention because
it’s not as menacing looking as the other two structures.
Its purpose was to test aircraft assemblies for EMP hardening. Obviously you “load” a small aircraft or model for testing.
Truthfully, this is not a very good way to test for EMP hardening because there is very little high power microwave energy
generated it this way.
On the other hand it is fine for testing for lightning hardening.
This facility is pointed out as an example of more advanced sciences developed by the Soviet era, when in fact, in the
United States when EMP hardening is tested it is in a machine that generates an actual EMP pulse without high voltage discharges,
actually, much more advanced than using a huge inefficient marx generator. It is also much, much cheaper to run as well.
They don’t get much attention because they don’t use huge menacing looking structures and lightning bolt sized sparks to execute the test.
This does not harvest lightning, it generates it artificially. Second, it is also not an attempt to create a directed energy weapon as proposed by others.
I hope this clears up any inaccuracies in the original article, although I admit, much less dramatic sounding, considering it would never work for it’s intended purpose.
I propose that is the real reason it was abandoned.
in this article gentleman Marin Soljačić
is mentioned with
first efficient non-radiative power transfer
and
US$20 million grant from the U.S. Department of Energy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Energy),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marin_Solja%C4%8Di%C4%87
Wesley
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Few links allowing you to understand better:
link#3
Quite intensive and in some point dramatic discussion about:
Viziv, Zenneck Wave,
wave properties in comparison to laser,
Near Field and inverse square law
Although it is easy text , -for right readier it is good entertainment.
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/02/10/0615248/ask-slashdot-could-nikola-teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-have-worked
(https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/02/10/0615248/ask-slashdot-could-nikola-teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-have-worked)========================================================= (https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/02/10/0615248/ask-slashdot-could-nikola-teslas-wardenclyffe-tower-have-worked)
for these who wants easier controversy based on historical perspective go here
https://www.pbs.org/tesla/dis/responses.html
(https://www.pbs.org/tesla/dis/responses.html)Response
by Jim Hardesty
Because you seem to have considerable knowledge of the subject, and particularly of Maxwell's equations,
I will direct you to a very important book called Wireless Telegraphy by Dr. J. Zenneck (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1915). In Chapter 10,
"Propagation of the Waves Over the Earth's Surface," Zenneck provided some very useful information about ground waves.
Tesla indicated that Zenneck's ground wave was the non-Hertzian wave he was talking about.
The Zenneck-Sommerfeld solution to Maxwell's equations is another area for you to check.
It is known that one of the books that Tesla's most used was a copy of Maxwell's original work.
Because much of that appears in quaterions, one can assume that Tesla had considerable
familiarity with them.
I will leave you with this. Have fun!
(https://www.pbs.org/tesla/dis/responses.html)
Wesley
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Few links allowing you to understand better:
link#4
Here we have
WirelessPower Transmission Future as Showcased
in Nikola Tesla’s Electricity Unplugged
Thomas Valone, Ph.D., P.E.
Integrity Research Institute, Beltsville MD 20705
Start reading from page 10
https://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/IRIANNUAL2016.pdf (https://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/IRIANNUAL2016.pdf)
"All that is necessary," says Corum, “is that his transmitter power and carrier frequency be capable of round-the-world propagation.
" In fact, Tesla stated, "With my transmitter I actually sent electrical vibrations around the world and received them again,
and I then went on to develop my machinery" (L.A. Times, Dec., 1904), which was verified by Dr Corum.
The power loss experienced by this pulsed, electrostatic discharge mode of propagation was less than 5% over 25,000 miles.
Dr. Van Voorhies says, "...path losses are 0.25 dB/Mm at 10 Hz",
which often is difficult for engineers to believe, - For these who are used to transverse waves, a resistive medium,
and line-of-sight propagation modes
And some snack,
something easy - for easy go.. people:
When launched, the Zenneck Surface Wave literally envelops the planet like a balloon,
enabling transmitter probes to be placed anywhere power can be generated and receivers
to be placed anywhere power is needed.
https://swling.com/blog/2018/10/scientists-studying-wireless-electric-transmission-in-central-texas/
Wesley
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Few links allowing you to understand better:
link#5
http://www.institutotesla.org/pdf/TESLA-THEORY-1.pdf (http://www.institutotesla.org/pdf/TESLA-THEORY-1.pdf)
nice pictures of original pages
Text loooong... in English
I didn't read it yet
but for some reason ends with Russian
......................Ok I think I know what is going on.
they use Russian references
References .
1. B. Rzhonsnitsky,
N.Tesla, Moscow, 1959. 2. I.Tamm,
The bases of the electric theory, Moscow, Leningrad, 1949. 3.
Kessenikh, Propagation of radio wave, Moscow, 1952.
So it looks like it is "Tesla from Russian point of view"
Can be interesting .
Let me know if it has any value.
if not I'll remove it.
Wesley
Wesley
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Few links allowing you to understand better:
link#6
The application of electromagnetic surface waves to wireless energy transferGary Peterson
The use of guided electromagnetic waves for the wireless transmission of electrical energy has long been the subject of scientific investigation.
While attention is presently focused on the near-field inductive and far-field radiative
techniques there is ongoing interest, as well, in the possibility of using a terrestrial transmission
line mode for wireless power transfer.
A history of surface wave theory development is provided, along with comments about the basic functionality of Tesla's original designs.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-application-of-electromagnetic-surface-waves-to-Peterson/f9d3824240e41b4748a403adbd0c140f2f580a06
(https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-application-of-electromagnetic-surface-waves-to-Peterson/f9d3824240e41b4748a403adbd0c140f2f580a06)Grab the original text if you can !!!!
It is worth your time
Text can be downloaded for I believe less than $35
And this is what you need
Let me know if anyone have it.
Wesley
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At the end of today's session some entertainment:
where was that?
what year?
https://teslauniverse.com/node/11868
(https://teslauniverse.com/node/11868)-------------------------------------------------------- (https://teslauniverse.com/node/11868)
and another one :
I'm not sure why this was published in Research gate
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321105897_Paradigm_Lost_Nikola_Tesla's_True_Wireless (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321105897_Paradigm_Lost_Nikola_Tesla's_True_Wireless)
let me know if it has any value.
Wesley