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Author Topic: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board  (Read 33718 times)

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2019, 01:45:34 PM »
Yes Jimboot, we are well aware of them. However, fact is still 99% of the electrical engineering establishment do not believe what they claim is possible.
It will remain a pipe dream until the day they publicly provide the service they claim.
Even then they'll have to deal with maybe years of 3rd party verification's before "The Establishment" is ready to rewrite the possibility of efficient high power wireless transmission.


Understand that even one wire power transmission is not possible according to "The Establishment"
Any educated engineer will tell you current must have a return path.
So just proving efficient one wire power transmission alone will be quite a feat!!!

Regards
Luc


Got it.
Ressurecting some coils. Great setup as usual luc. Thanks Wesley for the cheat sheet.

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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2019, 04:45:01 PM »
Thank you Wesley for your posts and details.

Please don't think we are not reading your posts or following your instruction, we are reading but taking very small steps at a time.
We have a retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist who comes for coffee every morning and looks at my experiments.
As far as he is concerned , one wire power transmission is not possible let alone long distance efficient wireless power transmission.
We also have EE poynt99 (member here) who also believes one wire power transmission is not possible. So, we are taking our time by doing extra tests trying to satisfy all the possibilities of current return paths.
At this point our Lockheed Martin EE, Physicist  is in a confused state as he can no longer explain how the circuit works since we have eliminated most of all possible current return paths.
I'm sharing some of my tests here to help (or maybe confuse) other EE

Hopefully soon we will be moving forward to wireless power transmission by applying what you have been sharing.

Kind regards
Luc

Online stivep

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2019, 04:50:55 PM »
I got few minutes  to  respond
Fallowing comment is  related  to  one wire transmission of energy known also as Goubau line
Fallowing comment  must be  read  in association with  comment indicated  by   link right  below.

in regards to very  condensed:
- list of steps to succeed
- list  of possible errors
- terms and phenomena needed to be learned and understood
-and very condensed  explanation  of  how to transfer energy from point A  to B using different  forms of interface
that  was explained  here:

https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539357/#msg539357

There is   a  misunderstanding of some of you  standing that
Quote
that electrical  loop  must  be closed for the current to flow.
simple answer:
EM (Electro-Magnetic) Electromagnetic wave  doesn't need closed loop  nor cares about it. 
This type  of phenomena is related to EM  and NOT  to   electrical circuit  and its laws. 

here is explanation:

EM wave known also as TEM in TM Mode is a must to have  to transfer  Energy from  point A to  B  on the Earth/air interface
or any other type of interface listed in  link from above
1.-TEM is Transverse Electromagnetic Wave
 is a mode of propagation where the electric and magnetic field lines are all restricted to directions normal (transverse)
to the direction of propagation. Plane waves are TEM, however, we are more interested in what types of transmission lines can support TEM.
- TEM mode is the preferred mode in coax. Under proper conditions, all E-field lines run radially, while magnetic field lines run in circles around the center conductor.

1a.- Criteria for TEM propagation in transmission lines Five conditions for TEM propagation in a transmission line are below. Most textbooks get the top four correct but fail to mention (5)...
1. Fields are contained in uniform, isotropic dielectric material (excludes microstrip). For TEM, there is never a calculation of Keffective needed!
2. Two or more conductors are required (excludes rectangular waveguide, but includes parallel-plate waveguide)
3. The conductors must have infinite conductivity. The IR drop across the conductor bends the E-field ever so slightly going forward.
4. The dielectric must be lossless.
5. The cross-section of the transmission line must remain constant (excludes certain types of slow-wave structures)
Conditions (3) and (4) make it impossible to create pure TEM unless you have access to superconductors and a zero-gravity lab so you don't have to support the conductors. But these rules are splitting hairs and can usually be ignored in real life.
here  is the link: https://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedias/transverse-electro-magnetic
==============================================================
After you  read it   you  may partially forget it  as this is not the most important  for you to know.
==============================================================
And now  you are ready to go  to that  what is important to understand:
1. Basics of TEM, TE, and TM propagation
2. Easy Explanation of TE and TM modes for Waveguides | Electromagnetic Field Theory Tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XHZB7iDi1w

Note: interface  is a form of waveguide as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIIABIU3tRw&t=5s


Wesley

« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 09:37:49 PM by stivep »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2019, 04:50:55 PM »
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Offline r2fpl

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2019, 05:17:49 PM »
Thank you Wesley for your posts and details.

Please don't think we are not reading your posts or following your instruction, we are reading but taking very small steps at a time.
We have a retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist who comes for coffee every morning and looks at my experiments.
As far as he is concerned , one wire power transmission is not possible let alone long distance efficient wireless power transmission.
We also have EE poynt99 (member here) who also believes one wire power transmission is not possible. So, we are taking our time by doing extra tests trying to satisfy all the possibilities of current return paths.
At this point our Lockheed Martin EE, Physicist  is in a confused state as he can no longer explain how the circuit works since we have eliminated most of all possible current return paths.
I'm sharing some of my tests here to help (or maybe confuse) other EE

Hopefully soon we will be moving forward to wireless power transmission by applying what you have been sharing.

Kind regards
Luc

Luc,

Why do you say that you can't send energy to a light bulb with one wire? I've done it a long time ago. It is very easy.
All we need is TT + kacher + wire + bulb + ground. That's all. There is no closed circuit connection. If you want it will show in the movie. You can do it yourself.

Each fluorescent lamp within a tesla coil radius proves that there is energy transmission !!!

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2019, 08:45:37 PM »
Luc,

Why do you say that you can't send energy to a light bulb with one wire? I've done it a long time ago. It is very easy.
All we need is TT + kacher + wire + bulb + ground. That's all. There is no closed circuit connection. If you want it will show in the movie. You can do it yourself.

Each fluorescent lamp within a tesla coil radius proves that there is energy transmission !!!

I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
So if you are a graduated EE like poynt99 or the retired EE & Physicist that visits the lab where I do experiments, you would be looking to explain how the current path is completed.

Poynt99 hypothesized that the current return path was completed through the ground (wireless) all the way to the top capacitance of the Tesla coils.

The retired EE & Physicist first hypothesized the current return path was completed through the air (like radio transmissions)

Each engineer will have their own version or explanation of how the current return path is completed but note none of them will consider it's all done through one wire since that's contrary to their teachings.

I have no problem believing efficient high power one wire transmission is possible, since I have not been trained by the establishment.
But for those that have, they will not surrender until they find how the current path is completed.

I had no idea of the EE teachings on this subject had no exceptions until the retired EE & Physicist told me about it.
So I'm sharing it here because many experimenters here are not EE let alone Physicists and may assume one wire power transmission is commonly excepted but it's not.
So it may be good to know this if you engaged in an exchange with an EE and why I'm taking the time to share this.

Regards
Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2019, 08:45:37 PM »
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Offline r2fpl

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #50 on: September 29, 2019, 08:57:08 PM »
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
So if you are a graduated EE like poynt99 or the retired EE & Physicist that visits the lab where I do experiments, you would be looking to explain how the current path is completed.

Poynt99 hypothesized that the current return path was completed through the ground (wireless) all the way to the top capacitance of the Tesla coils.

The retired EE & Physicist first hypothesized the current return path was completed through the air (like radio transmissions)

Each engineer will have their own version or explanation of how the current return path is completed but note none of them will consider it's all done through one wire since that's contrary to their teachings.

I have no problem believing efficient high power one wire transmission is possible, since I have not been trained by the establishment.
But for those that have, they will not surrender until they find how the current path is completed.

I had no idea of the EE teachings on this subject had no exceptions until the retired EE & Physicist told me about it.
So I'm sharing it because many experimenters here are not EE let alone Physicists and may assume one wire power transmission to be commonly excepted.

Regards
Luc

The explanation is probably very simple. This is an electron jump and alignment between + and - except that the potential difference relative to mass (earth) is constantly generated.
Does light or sound; (wave) have to return to the source?

Energy transfer using the TT coil has more than two possibilities.

Online stivep

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2019, 09:29:45 PM »
I did not say you can't send power through one wire.
What I said is, the establishment (teachings) of Electronic or Electrical Engineering says current must have a return path.
There's is no exception to the teachings.
Regards
Luc
simple answer:
in our case  and in your recent experiment:
EM (Electro-Magnetic) Electromagnetic wave  doesn't need closed loop  nor cares about it. 
This type  of phenomena is related to EM  and NOT  to   electrical circuit  and its laws. 
more of it is here.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539371/#msg539371
Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2019, 09:29:45 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2019, 12:29:42 AM »
Since we are not dealing with a clean sine wave in both cases the scope averages the frequency based on the wave form shape. The very small difference in frequency the scope displays may not at all be a real change in frequency from the circuit but from a small change in the sine wave shape. Look closely at each wave shape and I'm quite sure you will see a small difference and hence the change.
I'm use to seeing these small digital artifacts affect the frequency data on a digital scope and why I ignored the digits below 1.1Mhz
I'm very confident the transmitter coil is locked at the same resonating frequency in both cases.

...
Hi Luc,

Yes, that is okay what you say on the digital scope frequency measurement when the measured signal is not fully 'clean'. I mentioned the 10 kHz difference because it can steadily be seen at the second decimal places: 1.147 MHz and 1.137 MHz, and only the third and fourth decimal frequency values change for the case when the coils' bottom wires are grounded to the pipes.  But the 10 kHz or so frequency change is a small and negligible issue, especially if we accept that both coils are pulled (downwards) by about 10 kHz.  The loaded Q for both coils very likely remains high and this establishes the operating frequency stability for both coils.  As you know, the unloded Q comes from XL/R where R is any coil's DC resistance and L is the inductance for any coil.  XL should be calculated for 1.1 MHz.

The ground resistance meter you show is an interesting instrument. Unfortunately the user manual for it does not include the measuring frequency it uses for ground resistance, at least I did not find any reference in its user manual for this make and type
https://manualzz.com/doc/7219334/ground-tester-manual .
I found another make and type, with similar specs and it uses 3.333 kHz measuring frequency when in the ground resistance measurement mode (page 17 in pdf file https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf ).  It is very likely your meter also uses a some kHz test signal in ground resistance mode.
You measured 440 Ohm for one of the copper pipe groundings, does the other pipe have a similar resistance I wonder. When you have time would you check both at the same time.

And in case your meter indeed uses less than 10 kHz test frequency or around that, then your ground resistance can be different at the 1.1 MHz frequency the coils resonate at.  The 440 Ohm ground resistance measured at the likely some kHz frequency is much less than the near 2 kOhm DC ground resistance.

Thanks for your efforts and sharing the results.

Gyula

Online stivep

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2019, 01:04:02 AM »
Although  we in the interface deal with   something  that looks like two dimensional  space  it is helpful first to look at TEM from the perspective of waveguide
I  was looking for  easy way  to explain TE and  TM mode but instead going to  mathematics lets take look at behavior of wave in  closed  space
or   to be more exact - enclosed  space  by walls of waveguide .
First and foremost important is that:
- TEM (Transverse ElectroMagnetic) wave, is  the wave that is  limited  in its ability to move to given direction   
as
- regular  ElectroMagnetic wave can propagate  omnidirectionally   from single  point source - such  as Tx( Transmitter)
So  by  giving  a  direction  or limiting EM  wave we creating TEM wave  that is exactly the same  but now  directional.
The waveguide is the device that   limits  wave in its ability to  propagate to just  given direction of our choice.

The surface  wave in the  interface   such as Zenneck Wave   behaves in similar  way to that of waveguide however  later on we  need  to point   at differences specific to this behavior in interface.
The quite  easy  video explaining limitations imposed by  us to  EM  wave  causing it to become TEM in TE or TM mode is explained  here to some extend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ_zKHNYn8Q


If we have no impedance  match at the Rx side  with  Tx  than we  will have one of fallowing:
-short circuit
-open circuit
-no load  or load  that along with our Rx  is  not matching  impedance of Tx.
remember our system of Tx and Rx   with interface or with waveguide  is the reactive system 

In all of  the  cases we will have   reflected wave that will affect our Tx  and  may even damage it.
and now  lets go  to specific time  in  the first video from  above here:
https://youtu.be/YQ_zKHNYn8Q?t=245
- the  lector  is  talking about impedance mismatch.
after you watch that part go  here:
and see  visual representation of what happened if we have  lets say   short at end of waveguide ( the effect for all of the cases short open  or improper load  will be  similar- it will be impedance mismatch ) 

the video  named:
A TEM waveguide with a Short Circuit
shows:
The Propagation of a TEM wave in a TEM transmission line with a short circuit on the right side.
Absorbing boundary conditions ABC are placed in the left side.
A sine wave excitation is injected from the left side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-CDmAkJaDc

Wesley

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2019, 01:04:02 AM »
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Online stivep

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2019, 01:12:00 AM »
To understand  that what was written    above the beginner needs to  understand what is Transverse movement of wave in   given direction
and by that it will be  easier to understand  what I meant while talking about  Magnetic field   or Electric field  perpendicular to  direction  of propagation. 
That makes easier  to understand TE and TM mode .
So  lets  go to basics:
For these who  have problem  to understand what is  Transverse  Wave but  not yet directional Transverse Magnetic  wave
Here is video :
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iO81v42dQA

Wesley

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2019, 01:53:13 PM »
Thanks Wesley, I like Luc’s approach of small steps and I like your distinction of the behavior of the gobau line and why a return path is not required. I’ve watched a few of your vids and have altered models accordingly so I can adjust height of top load .


I’ll working with old coils and building a new circuit and I’m waaaaay less proficient than luc and have less time to dedicate. When I get stuck though I’ll be coming back to your posts. I have enough room here to erect something big  ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2019, 01:53:13 PM »
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Online stivep

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2019, 02:44:38 PM »
#1
video made by  non  professional but  talking about the historical facts and  one of  them is 2018 establishing
office  in Bahrain  by NewPower cooperating with  Viziv Texzon   
watch it from here:
https://youtu.be/GZV7-keRFq8?t=1291

conclusion:
despite all of the skepticism Corum  brothers  who are  the source  of  everything  around using  their business with  high rank of  former lobbyist,military, known
figures in  politics  are pushing oil industry to consider:
- what will be the future  of  oil?
-what will happened if oil industry will  be  ignoring them?
-will they   be  willing to  cooperate and put billions of their own money to be at the right side at the right time.?
There is no place  for everyone there,  as someone must be  a loser.
Chevron is already  sucked  into  it and Milford Texas  Tesla Tower ins the  result of that.
For us  Viziv  is  only training  ground.
Learning how  to  send energy from  point A to B  is mandatory to have practical  and theoretical  skills to get to the next step:
Extraction  of Energy from Schumann waveguide.

============================================================================
#2
I have enough room here to erect something big  ;D
Size is not so much important.  :)
The reason why Viziv is so big is:
- the  voltage  and power foreseen/ expected ·  envisioned as to be transferred  by the  tower.
- the frequency  of operation 18kHz  , Corum  Bro's  don't  yet use  CC and CCW  winding technique  to make coil smaller.,
To make tests  with  smaller coil:
- the frequency of tests  can be  as high as 54Mhz..
- the transmitter can be  typical Ham transceiver  with  typical 100W# PEP.( use it  only at 10W as you may burn the  power transistors due to impedance mismatch)
-at any of  ham bands  the Ham is allowed  to have legal tests .
-the mode of operation CW ( use it in CW at best with electronic keyer  , not continuous CW!! as you may burn the  power transistors due to impedance mismatch)
-the  structure  and first tests  can be  done from starting scratch  in 1 day.(at best using 2 people.)
-The structure can stay there and be used  many  times with alterations done later.

legal note: HV is dangerous   I don't take any responsibility  for anything you  do.
that note applies to all of  my posts and comments  in here and in any other pace.
If  I'm not the Ham than I must  use e.g, - the friend who has  FCC  approved license to operate at Ham frequencies.
The best advice is do nothing :) heee. 

 
Wesley
   

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2019, 12:05:37 AM »
Thanks Wesley for all the details.

Here are my v 2.0 secondary Tesla coils side by side with the first set I tested.
The new ones are wound on 39" inches long 4" i.d. pvc sewage pipe.
1400 turns of 22 AWG

Wesley, I have a question regarding the primary coil. Could I use 3/8 flexible copper pipe instead of Litz wire?... which is best?... does copper mass matter?

Kind regards
Luc

Online stivep

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2019, 12:18:55 AM »
Yes you can and yes it  is recommended
By the way,  great  job  .
http://www.hvtesla.com/primary.html
it doesn't  have to be flat  coil

Wesley

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2019, 12:32:12 AM »
I found another make and type, with similar specs and it uses 3.333 kHz measuring frequency when in the ground resistance measurement mode (page 17 in pdf file https://www.instrumart.com/assets/DGC-1000A-manual.pdf ).  It is very likely your meter also uses a some kHz test signal in ground resistance mode.

3.3kHz sound about like the frequency of my meter. Listen to the (below) video again which I purposely brought the camera mic close to the meter and you can clearly hear it. You can download this free audio spectrum analyzer http://www.techmind.org/audio/specanaly.html to find the peak frequency.

https://youtu.be/kCwCf20l6FM


You measured 440 Ohm for one of the copper pipe groundings, does the other pipe have a similar resistance I wonder. When you have time would you check both at the same time.

Today the original grounding rod I measured with the impedance meter is 340 Ohms and the second one is 640 Ohms

Regards
Luc

 

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