Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 83769
  • *Latest: MOKO PCB

  • *Total Posts: 519267
  • *Total Topics: 15467
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 3
  • *Guests: 11
  • *Total: 14

Author Topic: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board  (Read 26874 times)

Offline stivep

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2019, 01:57:07 PM »
Realy? not with an ordinary Tesla coil! I have seen Londetudinal wave experiments, it can assure you it can penetrate a steel box no faraday cage is of any use! and you can bank on that one.
Dave
Quote
original  Wesley's statement   : electromagnetic longitudinal wave simply can not exist.
.
Dave  you have  rights  to express  your opinion.
I think that  Dave manifests  problem with  basic fundamental  knowledge  about physics of electromagnetic wave.
Here  in this part of forum we ask  you  Dave for link/support/prove/or evidence of your statement if there  is any.
When accepted and known laws of physics  and its models are questioned by anyone it is  nothing wrong with challenging such individuals.
We want the space of this forum to be  condensed to   maximum with  valuable and useful  data.
Wesley   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline poynt99

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 3585
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2019, 05:12:39 PM »
Luc,

Is the conventional explanation that far fetched?

Tesla performed one-wire transmission of power via patent 593,138, and there is the occasional application in modern times as well using high voltage and earth as a return.

The Tesla method above involves using real earth grounding at each end, and yours does not, but high voltage and/or high frequency currents can find their way to earth ground one way or the other. The TX and RX sites can be many kms apart because the earth is one large ground plane.

I don't know if your TC's would operate properly if the terminal caps were earth grounded to their own separate ground points, but it would be interesting to see if that worked and also increased the efficiency of energy transfer.

Regarding the question of lifting the entire experiment away from the earth to prove or disprove the earth return theory, I would say would be difficult to achieve. I envision two helicopters, each suspending a TC about 1000 feet off the ground, separated by 1000 feet.

One thing to consider; why does your experiment require high voltage, and/or high frequency to work? High voltage is easy to imagine, because it can involve the ionization of air molecules to create a conductive path, but what about high frequency? If energy is not being radiated via E-M waves, then might there be another mechanism involved that is creating a return path? If the above helicopter experiment still worked, then I might be inclined to think so. For example, could air behave like a RCL transmission line at high enough frequencies?

Another thing to consider; if a longitudinal wave is being transmitted and received, why is one wire between the two sites required?

Offline DavidWolff

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2019, 08:44:59 PM »
Wesley thanks for the invitation to reply. Personly I think it's down to Wesley to prove Logdetudinal waves don't exist perhaps on his other
thread, the old scientist had an excellent video with two biscuit tins one inside the other and transistor
Radio blaring away inside them, and the other experiment is incinerating paperwork in a sealed metal case, it worked perfectly.
Didn't the Lituwainian experiment use this phenomenon in its design? find that and you have your proof meanwhile have a look at this 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjz-5Lqtxow   < please watch this video

https://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/waves/wavemotion.html

kind regards Dave

PS At uni we were always taught to ask when we can't get our heads around a problem, please explain.



« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 12:04:01 AM by stivep »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2019, 08:44:59 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline stivep

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2019, 10:50:50 PM »
Answer provided to:DavidWolff
answers are for and against scalar wave:
Quote#1
Quote
A scalar wave is a purported type of electromagnetic wave that works outside physics as we know it.
The central conceit is that scalar waves restore certain useful aspects of Maxwell's equations "discarded"
in the 19 th century by those fools Heaviside, Hertz and Gibbs.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=scalar+waves+wikipedia&qs=SC&pq=scalar+wave+ikip%5bedia&sc=1-21&cvid=AC5BD92DBB2A417D8ADDF63E579A12F1&FORM=QBRE&sp=1
Quote#2
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/scalar-waves-is-this-a-complete-fabrication.238709/
Quote
Wikipedia.org labels Scalar Wave theory as pseudoscience. 
You need to provide some credible references (preferably in refereed professional journals),
or this thread will be deleted.  We do not permit crackpot theories here on the PF.
Quote#3
Quote
however, later physicists assumed these equations were meaningless, since scalar waves had not been empirically observed and repeatedly
verified among the scientific community at large.
https://www.iawaketechnologies.com/faq/scalar-waves/

 Quote#4
Quote
The theory is considered pseudoscience (nonsense) yet is widely promoted among reseachers looking for ‘free energy’ or ‘over unity’
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/science/physics/electromagnetism/scalar-waves

Didn't the Lituwainian experiment use this phenomenon in its design?
No  it didn't. We were expecting NMR phenomena due to strong vibration of special ferrite from old Russian TV Rubin
That sound was also present in some versions of Akula and Ruslan devices.
In some   of the samples tested  the Yoke ferrite  cracked
I don't see as of today any  prove  of existence of scalar  waves
If you can  not  provide scientifically   existing prove  please just don't force the subject of  scalar wave
Wesley

Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2019, 01:58:32 PM »
Re Goubau line

"A Goubau line or Sommerfeld-Goubau line,[1] or G-line for short, is a single wire transmission line used to conduct radio waves at UHF and microwave frequencies."

"Ultra high frequency (UHF) is the ITU designation for radio frequencies in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz),"

I don't think 1Mhz is anywhere near either of that.

Why does an AC circuit NEED a completed path?  Why can't you just drive a current between two capacitive masses across a coil?

C - L - C
    L  - some other coil to induce the current...

The electron cloud in a wire IS slightly elastic... or you couldn't send pulses of a higher frequency than the length of the wire.  It is not in-compressable.






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2019, 01:58:32 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline stivep

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2019, 04:48:22 PM »
"A Goubau line or Sommerfeld-Goubau line,/ G-line, is a single wire transmission line used
to conduct radio waves at UHF and microwave frequencies. in the range between 300 megahertz (MHz) and 3 gigahertz (GHz),"
I don't think 1Mhz is anywhere near either of that.
Wesley's answer :
Quote
Note#1: you  can also create  two cones structure with    wire as explained in links
it will work also with magnet wire as that wire is coated with dielectric paint.


Note#2: some of  you may have problem to identify it as Goubau  due to slightly different configuration.
but we  definitely   deal with surface wave in dielectric!!!/ metal interface.
don't be surprised   if it works also with non coated   copper  wire. Yes it will but the mechanism is exactly  the same  it will be copper/ air interface.
But if  we talking about effectiveness  of energy  transmission  than use Teflon coated wire 
Note#3:  it  is not much difference  if you use  1ft  wide aluminum foil or you use wire.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539175/#msg539175
Physics tends to give separate names to the same phenomena based on convenience of pointing at  given area of it.
Example: light is electromagnetic wave and is part  of  electromagnetic spectrum but it is made from visible light, infrared ,ultraviolet.
It is convenient to use distinctive name for the type of  surface wave  at low frequencies and  this is  e.g  Zenneck Wave.
The  reflecting and propagating   properties of Zenneck Wave are specific  and  unique to that particular range  of electromagnetic surface  wave phenomena.
Why does an AC circuit NEED a completed path? .
The simplest answer:
if  there  is  no  current flow, there is no  rate of change and energy dissipation.For these who wants to have massage of your brain  the controversy is discussed here:
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74625/does-alternating-current-ac-require-a-complete-circuit
Remaining  unanswered part of comment of user:d3x0r was formulated not in condensed, precise and concise form having logical unity.
Logical  Unity: logical unit of Logical  Unity is a unique connection to an application program  or to logically precise answer.
Another  words:  logically precise answer is possible due  to very narrow and highly  precise and direct question not  bouncing around and not being reflected.
Physics has no emotions, feelings,and is apolitical .
Wesley
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 12:08:22 AM by stivep »

Offline stivep

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 11:44:19 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 11:44:19 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline d3x0r

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2019, 05:00:00 AM »
Current can flow in an open wire... it's only a small current due to the capacitance of the metal itself.


This calculator has no dependancy on insulation type, air being as good as teflon, because it's not between the metal and dialectric, but just of the metal itself, when calculating the capcitance of a length of wire.

or this one to calculate the capcitance of a mass of meterial, given

Capacitance, C = n X F/M X V
Capacity = n X F/M X 3.6
Where, n is number of electron transfer, F is Faraday Constant, M is Molar mass, V is applied potential.

which then means a sphere of metal, varnished or naked (as used in most telsa coils) is the same capictance.  It may be true that a varnished body of metal will hold a higher voltage, and be effecitvely more capacitance... but it's not really changing the capictance, just the ability to store more charge in the same capcitor.

---

so, again, I can have quite a current flowing in a coil with two mass-capcitances (say a 3x3x3 block of aluminum at each end, similar to what stiffler was using on his stuff)  and an inductor between it with an entirely open circuit; can store lots of energy in the resonant tank... and just need ANOTHER coil around it to extract energy from it.

While playing with toroidal(mobius wound) coils, I had lots of power transfered to the load, with the end of the coils connected to the load entirely open, and the windings themselves had very little internal/parasitic capacitance.  Attaching the other end to ground gave more electrons available.... but then it was

 ground-> coil -> LED-load -> coil ->ground  (two different filaments on the same coil)
and once I had it started that way, I could just remove the ground and leave the ends of the coils tied together, and there was enough electrons in the circuit to continue; but it would not re-start in that configuration... and ends up back at a closed circuit, which is diverging from the original point that the open circuit without the grounds also worked.

coil -> LED-load ->coil  (two different filaments on the same coil, with less than pico-farads of coupling between them... that is there's more capcitance in the wire than is shared between the two filaments.)



--
Edit: I've been on vacation for the past month, and a couple more weeks, when I get back home I'll do a more meaningful build along the lines of the topic.

Offline decogsm

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2019, 07:27:11 AM »
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 10:52:26 AM by decogsm »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2019, 07:27:11 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline stivep

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2019, 07:54:34 PM »
Current can flow in an open wire... it's only a small current due to the capacitance of the metal itself.
  That is correct the higher  the voltage  the lower the current =  power
That compared   to  safety standard:
Quote
International ICNIRP safety standards for RF current in the body in the Tesla coil frequency range of 0.1 - 1 MHz specify a maximum current density of 0.2 mA
per square centimeter and a maximum power absorption rate (SAR) in tissue of 4 W/kg in limbs and 0.8 W/kg average over the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil
However trick  is in understanding  of  the  phenomena:
trick #1:
Line voltage is the voltage seen on the AC line, typically single phase. Line current is the current that results when that voltage is applied to a load.
http://www.engineering.com/Ask@/qactid/1/qaqid/1286.aspx
trick#2
is to understand this:
Capturing Surface Electromagnetic Energy into a DC through Single-Conductor Transmission Line at Microwave Frequencies

http://jpier.org/PIERM/pierm54/04.16120207.pdf

Think ABOUT  signal in the wire  or  rather dielectric covering that wire - between two Tesla coils, -  as surface wave.
Remember that surface wave existing in the  interface is that what we focus our-self at.
Than read  here:
Quote
Physics tends to give separate names to the same phenomena based on convenience of pointing at  given area of it.
Example: light is electromagnetic wave and is part  of  electromagnetic spectrum but it is made from visible light, infrared ,ultraviolet.
It is convenient to use distinctive name for the type of  surface wave  at low frequencies and  this is  e.g  Zenneck Wave.
The  reflecting and propagating   properties of Zenneck Wave are specific  and  unique to that particular range  of electromagnetic surface  wave phenomena.
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg539218/#msg539218
conclusion:
Even if we mistakenly  identified phenomena (by its  very much  unique name) in the  wire( transmission line) between Tx Tesla coil and Rx Tesla coil having load,
we are always  dealing with EM wave  and  that particular EM wave does   not change  its behavior when compared to  Zenneck wave
Frequency of operation  can be in kHz  too  (means : not in  MHz  and GHz)
Our wire can be replaced with  aluminum foil 1ft wide and infinitely  long  and - it will behave the same way , however
the role of dielectric covering the wire in our Goubau  line is now  taken  by  air  as dielectric   creating  interface with  surface  of that foil.
By its  very much  unique name it will no longer be  named  Goubau  line it will be named Zenneck wave in the interface
if frequency is low.

Note : the missing  two  cones  of original Goubau line creates confusion to some of you. That can be explained by small diameter of wire in Goubau line but it is not important  here so I leave it as
it is.



Wesley

Offline groot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2019, 02:05:39 AM »
hello

Finally i got to do some tests of my own.
Aprox. 450khz  and 22.5volt 0.35 amp.  75 feet single wire transmission  .
 At load ( small automotive light bulb )  22.5 v 0.75 amp .

I have failed to send surface wave . Tx was inside the building while testing so
hight of top load was limited. To me more important question is:
For surface wave do i need my ground to be in one vertical line with coil and top load??? Mine was not.
Is the image in the ground dependent on ground rod location ?
Next time how should i prepare myself? Having ground rod 3 or 4 feet away is ok or its no no??

Thx 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2019, 02:05:39 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7025
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2019, 04:58:53 PM »
 Just a note
Previous experiments presented by gotoLuc  utilized parts and things on hand


When this topic was formally started orders were placed for components and pieces necessary to do a more focused or specific Zenneck topology as outlined in Wesley’s many contributions .


ATM Luc has an issue with his computor crashing .(no net access ATM for his personal acc’t)


He also has some other commitment (not FE related ..but definitely  “green theme “ energy production)
Which he needs to get done these next few weeks .


Offline gotoluc

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3096
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2019, 12:03:12 AM »
Luc,

Is the conventional explanation that far fetched?

Tesla performed one-wire transmission of power via patent 593,138, and there is the occasional application in modern times as well using high voltage and earth as a return.

The Tesla method above involves using real earth grounding at each end, and yours does not, but high voltage and/or high frequency currents can find their way to earth ground one way or the other. The TX and RX sites can be many kms apart because the earth is one large ground plane.

I don't know if your TC's would operate properly if the terminal caps were earth grounded to their own separate ground points, but it would be interesting to see if that worked and also increased the efficiency of energy transfer.

Regarding the question of lifting the entire experiment away from the earth to prove or disprove the earth return theory, I would say would be difficult to achieve. I envision two helicopters, each suspending a TC about 1000 feet off the ground, separated by 1000 feet.

One thing to consider; why does your experiment require high voltage, and/or high frequency to work? High voltage is easy to imagine, because it can involve the ionization of air molecules to create a conductive path, but what about high frequency? If energy is not being radiated via E-M waves, then might there be another mechanism involved that is creating a return path? If the above helicopter experiment still worked, then I might be inclined to think so. For example, could air behave like a RCL transmission line at high enough frequencies?

Another thing to consider; if a longitudinal wave is being transmitted and received, why is one wire between the two sites required?

Well, I'm not the only one that finds your explanation of the TC top capacitance completing the current loop "through ground" to be far fetched.
I explained your hypothesis to the 87yo retired Lockheed Martin EE and Physicist that comes for coffee each morning and his reply was, I don't think so.
He hasn't yet found an acceptable explanation on how the current loop occurs.

To further prove or disprove the possibility of ground transmission, I put together a new test using 3/4" x 10 feet long copper pipes as grounding rods 15 feet apart to verify if it's even possible to use the ground to replace the single wire.


Test results: https://youtu.be/1D8N8Jq5mzs


Regards
Luc

Offline gyulasun

  • without_ads
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4052
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2019, 12:58:39 AM »
Hi Luc,

Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?

I know the oscillator automatically follows the TX coil resonant frequency but the RX coil cannot do this,  so in case the operating
TX frequency happens to change when you swap from the wire to the grounded copper pipe, the TX coil is happy to resonate at a
new frequency (the oscillator follows any change) but the RX coil may get detuned and this may be misleading when estimating
power transfer. 
I am not saying this is the main reason why the bulb is not lit at all when the grounding is used, just a headups that the RX coil
may get detuned.

It is possible you have already tested such detuning effect?

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline gotoluc

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3096
Re: Wireless energy transfer experiments ,Builders board
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2019, 05:55:37 AM »
Hi Luc,

Would you check the TX coil operating frequency by a frequency meter (if possible) to see if it changes when you ground its bottom
to the buried copper pipe versus the frequency when its bottom is connected to the 15' wire?

I know the oscillator automatically follows the TX coil resonant frequency but the RX coil cannot do this,  so in case the operating
TX frequency happens to change when you swap from the wire to the grounded copper pipe, the TX coil is happy to resonate at a
new frequency (the oscillator follows any change) but the RX coil may get detuned and this may be misleading when estimating
power transfer. 
I am not saying this is the main reason why the bulb is not lit at all when the grounding is used, just a headups that the RX coil
may get detuned.

It is possible you have already tested such detuning effect?

Thanks,
Gyula

Hi Gyula,

You have a good point there and I didn't think of confirming if the circuit frequency changed but I'll check that tomorrow.
However, I don't think it's a matter of the circuit detuning but rather a matter of introducing a resistance of 2k Ohm (I now measured) between the grounding rods compared to the 15 feet of 14 AWG wire which is only in the milli Ohms range.
So my thinking is. it's the grounds high resistance that's choking the power transfer.

The point of the demonstration was mostly to demonstrate how bad of a conductive path the ground is in my area which is the path poynt99 believes is how 15 watts worth of current is using as a return path through the ground between the TC top capacitance.
So if I can't transfer any power 15 feet away using 10 feet deep copper grounding rods, then how can the TC top capacitance do it?

I'll confirm if the circuit stays tuned to 1.1Mhz once connected to the grounding rod.

Regards
Luc

 

OneLink